Star Wars: The Thread Strikes Back

[Reply #40 on:]

No comments on JJ Abrams choice as director?

No jokes on Lost music? flash-backs/forwards? time jumps? lens flares?


Oh.. on a nerdy diferent note.. i refound this interest graph from ROTJ ILM notes:



What i find interesting is the Y-Wing performance.. it clearly shows it on pair with the X-Wing and TIE Fighter... and i say.. why not?

games pictured the Y-Wing as a slugish slow flying brick only usefull for dissabling targets whe you cant use the B-Wing  (tought i enjoyed a lot using those close twin canons against incoming TIEs) .. but what we do see about it on movies?

In ANH we only see it doing a trench run , where it couldnt maneover ..and was catch up by TIE Fighters... just like X-Wings shortly after ...  no action at all in ESB, and in ROTJ we actually see a Y-Wing chasing down and shoting down a TIE Interceptor ....while keeping up with X-Wings...

So that chart makes sense to me..  also funny is how the games made the B-Wing being faster as well as more maneovrable and of course having way more firepower .. the chart shows the B-Wing being slower and slugier.. but it makes sense as the B-Wing was suposed to be a heavy assault fighter bomber capable of taking on star destroyers






edit for TOTP spinning TIE Fighter of doom:

[Reply #41 on:]

President Obama has agreed to your interview...The hitch is you will have to speak in english.  A real abomination to your people.

[Reply #42 on:]

JJ Abrams is a disgrace who must be stopped.

Although for the Y-Wing, they were never spotlighted much in the movies but there's a few contradictions in the EU, which is why I personally take the EU with a grain of salt, including Y-Wing performance. But if ILM was instructed by Lucas for being on par with the X-Wing and then novel writers changed performance, god bless 'em.

[Reply #43 on:]

No comments on JJ Abrams choice as director?

No jokes on Lost music? flash-backs/forwards? time jumps?

Not really, since Abrams didn't direct or work on any of the episodes of Lost in which any of those things happened.He helped create the idea for the show, worked on the pilot a little, then handed it off to the writers and never touched it again. Can't really make jokes about his directing when it comes to Lost. Also I don't know why you'd joke about the music from Lost...that music was awesome. He used the same composer for the Star Trek movie and the music was probably my favorite part of that movie.

Lens flare is legit though, he uses that in every movie he's directed, and needs to stop.

[Reply #44 on:]

I made a joke about making everything from the Tusken attack forward in Episode IV being a dream sequence in Luke's mind, but I guess that would be more Shyamalanian.  Ooh, M Night Shyamalan directing Star Wars.  Now that would be a twist!

[Reply #45 on:]

No comments on JJ Abrams choice as director?

Should someone have told me five years ago:
"The next Star Wars movie will be produced by Disney and directed by a Star Trek director"...I would have called the guys with the straightjacket for him.

And -regarding the compatibility of Star Wars and Star Trek- I would love to "quote" one of my most favorite movie scenes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K6awElUeJY

[Reply #46 on:]

No wonder they lost

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013/02/battle-of-hoth/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+wired%2Findex+%28Wired%3A+Top+Stories%29

[Reply #47 on:]

Well yeah, but its a case of retards vs retards.. so things balance out

I mean.. if everyone had .. i dont know... common sense..

-Leia wouldnt had fleed directly to Yavin IV main base after escaping the Death Star... all the movie Vader had tortured her to learn where the Rebel base was... she even lied (partially) when treatened to have Alderaan destroyed.. and then she escapes and goes straight to the base with the Death Star following then... and she even openly suspected it as she told Solo... it wasnt as if she didnt imagined or there was a time limit..  she lead the Death Star directly to the very base she was willing to die (and put an entire planet at potential risk) to keep it secret..

-In the battle of Yavin, acording to oficial sources, only 2 squadrons of TIE Fighters (black squadrons, under the direct command of Vader) were scrambled against the rebel fighters.... ok Tarkin played his "overconfident megavillain" role, but arent we talking about that? If we believe oficial sources, the Death Star carried 7000 TIE Fighters.. they could had overwhelmed and anhilated the rebels in seconds.. also of course even when they believed the Death Star to ve unvulnerable... where were its escorts... yes some EU sources say it had escort ships ... also on the rebel side.. only 30 fighters? thats all they had in that "big ass super-secret important base"? not even escort vessels?

-And why the Rebels keep making the mistake of making bases on ground? has that even worked out any good for them?  i mean... the rebels had a fleet, wich we saw in ESB and more complete in ROTJ ... with hundreds of cruisers, frigates, dreanoughs.. etc .. those ships we saw are capable of housing the rebel leadership, fighters, attack craft, soldiers, personel .. etc .. of course living on a starship might have its downs compared to living in a planet ... but its a moving base.. it moves, it can jump to hyperspace , evade pursuit...... a base cant.. you build a base... if the enemy finds you ... its either you escape from it really quick loosing a hell lot of resources on it.. or you are forced to stand a battle against a superior enemy..

It was stated in EU books and hinted in movies that the rebel alliance allways had a fleet where the alliance heads usually were.. dont see why they keep trying to make vulnerable bases

-The Battle of Endor ... dont even know where to begin...

and thats the good old trily i love.. i dont even think about embarrasing episodes like Battle of Naboo, the confusing battle of Geonosis (wich i still dont know where it came from) ...


In resume: Lucas is not a good war writer ... do we care?

[Reply #48 on:]

It's hard to think of a reason why the dumb battles in the original trilogy are better than the dumb battles in the prequels without it sounding like special pleading, but I would argue that the strategic content of the battles is less important than the fact that there is a battle and it involves characters the audience cares about.  If someone were to give a rat's ass about Annakin, Padme, the Gungas, or the clone troopers or whomever, it would be easier to overlook strategic decision-making.

That said, it's not unprecedented in history that a numerically, materially, and overall tactically superior force made an unforced error, resulting in a lost opportunity for complete victory. 

[Reply #49 on:]

Well , both Yavin, Hoth and Endor had modest planing and were well done... not strategically brilliant... but the visual effects using models and its non-saturation were quite satisfacting.. is what you espect

new trilogy battles were just a "put more, they are digital!" case... they are saturated with crap loads of digital FX to the point of one being alienated of whats going on.. actually it hurts me but the Episode-1 had the better battle , despite its sillines.. simply because it was the more simple and less saturated


-Battle of Naboo: thousands of droids vs thousands of Goofies Gungans ..hand to hand.. at least the gungans had some technology with them (shields) to repel the federation droid army.. and once the droids figured out how to enter the shields it was quickly over for the Gungans..  the space battle was visually pleasant..  a squadron of fighters vs a dreadnought.. it can work why not (if we ignore the fact that where was the rest of the federation fleet and how were they planing to shot it down if "their shields are inpenetrable" ) .... i can even tolerate a stupid clumsy kid getting in there by "accident".. but ... that a pilot is "accidentally" hit, looses control , enters the ship and finds himself conveniently in front of the main reactor , where he again accidentally shots torpedos and blow the entire ship? thats something you would expect to see in a parody.. its basically calling idiots all other pilots and the enemy as well..


-Battle of Geonosis: Now i only will say this: WHERE THE FRAK DID THIS CAME FROM? even today 11 years later i still dont understand where did that came from.. i will explain with the chain of events

-ObiWan investigates murder atempt, leads him to Kamino
-ObiWan gets to Kamino , finds an army of clones training, suposedly for the republic , but nobody can explain it... aparently one guy ordered them (he must had a frakload of money) ...
-Yoda goes to check that, Obi Wan procedes to Geonosis to following the suspect
-ObiWan gets captured in Geonosis by people who are NOT at war yet..
-Anakin and Padme go to rescue Obi-Wan... get captured too and are due to execution..
-Then out of nowhere a fleet FULL of clones, Yoda, and many many other Jedis arrive all the sudden and began a war in Geonosis.. no warning , no exchange of threats or declaration or dialog.. nothing.. ships show up with the Jedi in them and they begin directly a battle against pretty much anything that moves.. Jedis begin issing orders to the clones totally natural like if they had been doing it all life , without question or even wondering "one moment, where this guys come from? and why im a general now?" ... just like that .. and thats how the "great clone wars" begin? no build up.. no war declaration.. nothing.. republic forces show up and begin to battle gratoitously..

Ep3- Battle of Coruscant.. ok it made sense and it was suposed to be the bulk of republic fleet vs bulk of Independant fleet.. but they are just there in the stratosphere shooting each other.. no commanders, no battle per see, not goals.. just ships shooting each other ..and actually it doesnt even end.. good guys crash into the enemy comand ship, say "well done" and then everything is fine..

-The battle of utapau was the only "normal" thing of almost the trilogy.. the enemy had invaded Utapau, locals request formal help from the Republic... Republic forces arrive and begin warfare ...  it wasnt that hard and neither is overly saturated or absurd..

Lucas simply didnt learn the lesson of "more doesnt necesarily equals to better" ... the battle of Coruscant has more ships on screen than the battle of Endor.. but it doesnt appeal much to me.. all vessels are mixed up ..

Endor on the other hand.. you can clearly make both sides... you can see that the Imperial fleet is just holding them there for the Death Star ..and then all fleets converge to engage at close range out of necesity.. tought to be fair the ending was a bit "non existing" too... the alliance destroy the Death Star and the Executor flag ship..and then all those Imperial destroyers are gone... granted books explained they retreated and ran away.. but

[Reply #50 on:]

Battle of Endor wasn't that great of a space fight either, and also suffered from the "more doesn't equal better". Nothing will ever top the original Death Star run. Clear objectives, tight editing, fantastic score, characters you care about. So well-crafted, it is ridiculous.

I think you are being too hard on Battle of Coruscant. It was a backdrop, nothing more. It would have made no sense to see commanders and strategery and such. It was just chaos to surround the main characters--the focus is on Anakin and Obi-Wan saving Palpatine. The sequence works, for me.

Battle of Geonosis, you are completely right. Lucas really dropped the ball with that sequence...the whole thing seemed to lack vision. It was complete nonsense from beginning to end, and the editing was positively amateurish. It felt like an animatic. And why the heck does Anakin need a robot arm? Luke lost his hand because it fell into oblivion. Anakins legs fell into lava. Unretrievable, so they use robot parts. Okay, scifi logic, I get it. But Anakin's arm in episode 2 was right there! You're telling me that with all of that futuristic medical technology, nobody could have put it on ice and reattached it? Sigh.

[Reply #51 on:]

^Heh, you know, I totally never thought of that. I've seen the movie a bunch of times (....yeah....), and recent viewings have made me realize just how bad it is, but somehow that little piece of stupidity has never occurred to me. Maybe the film is so awash with shit already that I just didn't think of it. Like how some really bizarre lines in "The Room" don't really register on the first viewing because you're still trying to figure out the line before it.

I will say, I get what Lucas was going for....the film is supposed to be the start of Anakin's turn down the dark path, and in that case, his literal transformation into "more machine now than man." I think it made sense for him to lose a limb by the end of the film in order to create some synergy with the original trilogy. But yeah, it's a dumb moment of logic.

One of my friends bought the big Blu-Ray a while back and said AOTC might have actually aged worse for him than Phantom Menace. I really disagreed with him at first, but watching it again last year, I kind of saw where he was coming from. I used to think it was a big step from Episode I, but it really hasn't held up.

[Reply #52 on:]

No one is talking about Han Solo to return?

[Reply #53 on:]

I'm against it. Probably going to be little more than a token appearance that ultimately dishonours the character. Ford is 70 now. What's he going to do? I don't see General Solo flying a desk.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong, though.

[Reply #54 on:]

Maybe this time around he'll be frozen in lead-lined carbonite.

I didn't see the actual mechanization of Annakin as hugely important.  In terms of connecting the prequels with ROTJ, losing his hand made sense.  It could be seen as a pandering little callback like the Ark of the Covenant's appearances in that movie about skulls, but since it's in a prequel and provides a little background to a critical moment in a later, better movie, I think it's worth including.  However, there is more to being a machine than being mechanical.  Lack of compassion and subordinated autonomy would go far further to becoming "twisted and evil" than having a robotic hand.  Sure it's symbolic, but it should be tied with an action that demonstrates his turn toward being a bad guy, not while trying to stop a bad guy.

[Reply #55 on:]

not while trying to stop a bad guy.

I see where you are coming from.

Yet,  "One often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it".
That theme from Greek tragedy was heavily incorporated in Episode III.
So, I guess "good intentions gone horribly wrong" is more fitting (and also tragic) than Anakin deciding "Okay...I have HAD it. Now I might as well be an asshole".

[Reply #56 on:]

To quote Kris Straub:

"it’s too bad we don’t have an example of a movie where harrison ford came back to play a beloved character after a very long interval and kind of sleepwalked through it"

[Reply #57 on:]

Well..Harrison Ford already favored a heroic death for Han Solo during the classic movies. (Even letting remain Han Solo in carbonite as some martyr for the Rebellion's cause).

Maybe he'll get his Death Wish in Episide VII
(On the other hand: A Star Wars movie produced by Disney, with a Star Trek director killing off Han Solo might be eligible to cause some amok runs among hardcore Star Wars fans )

[Reply #58 on:]

Ford is 70 now. What's he going to do?

I hope that the original trilogy actors are killed off. Let's say that it's years after ROTJ, they're sitting around in their interstellar nursing home, and a runaway Star Destroyer plows into it, consuming them all in a ridiculous fireball.

Then we can be treated to a bunch of new faces from both sides team up to fight a resurgent army of cloned Sith or something.

It'd be nice if they'd adapt the Thrawn books. Move the setting to years later, switch out the original trilogy characters for some newbies (which they wouldn't have had to do if they'd filmed it in the 90's when the books were written. Fucking idiots), and hopefully give fans something to rave about rather than groan at.

I'd like to see C-3PO melted down and recycled, too. Made into coins or something else that doesn't fucking speak. R2-D2 should probably be in the nursing home with the wrinklies. He's probably got some attachment that periodically sucks some of the old out of them. I mean, he's got one of everything else (which is fucking stupid).

I'll go see the new movie, but I'm already expecting to dislike it, which is not a good sign.

[Reply #59 on:]

I hope we get attractive male Twi'leks in skimpy and impractical outfits.  

[Reply #60 on:]

I hope we get attractive male Twi'leks in skimpy and impractical outfits. 

I hope that if you get those, they're vaporised by a squadron of X-Wing pilots. Seriously. Star Wars doesn't need more beings in skimpy outfits. Star Wars needs more X-Wings, Y-Wings, TIE fighters (and variants), A-Wings, Milliennium Motherfucking Falcons, and lightsaber duels in totally fucking bizarre locations that somehow work as visually stunning backdrops that accentuate rather than distract from the choreography of the battle (the one thing that the prequels didn't get totally wrong).

Star Wars is about beat-up looking, industrially solid-feeling hardware performing an intricate ballet in space, punctuated by laser bolts and small explosions. It's about a guy with a glowing sword fighting another guy with a glowing sword of a different colour. It's about spaceships that look like they've been engineered for the sole purpose of kicking ass kicking ass. It's about princesses shooting stormtroopers, love being declared in the face of grave odds against survival, and  insurmountable odds being surmounted by Billy Dee Williams and a thing that has a vagina for a face.

It's not about skimpy costumes. If you want to see attractive men in skimpy costumes whilst you watch Star Wars, call a fucking escort agency.

[Reply #61 on:]

All this dismissing of the old actors on account of age is hideously offensive. Old folks have a lot to offer. Wit, wisdom, hard-edged attitude. Also, I've provided personal care for many veterans of the Alliance various wars, and if those old bastards hadn't been maimed, they'd have been the scariest, most physically intimidating people you'd ever meet. Even with their injuries, there were a few of them I think could have broken me in half. In their late eighties, mind you.
Nothing wrong with old folks. Some of 'em just get tougher the older they get.

I also hope for a return to the old beat-up clunker starships. Preferably depicted by way of physical models, though that's probably too much to hope for.

[Reply #62 on:]

They're not being dismissed because of their age.  They're being dismissed because of the series' age.  Having the new movies be fairly contemporaneous to ROTJ makes the most sense, but that means having characters that are of fairly similar ages.  I think it would be neat having an older Luke being a Jedi master, trying to rebuild the Jedis' prestige and maintain control of his students.  That's doable with Hamil in his 60s, but I would also like to see Han and Leia try to raise a family, which isn't going to happen now that they're old enough to have grandkids.

It would also be reminiscent of the original trilogy to have new characters thrown together in the cataclysm of the Empire's death throes.  The originals started out as movies that followed the trials and growth of three fairly small players on a big stage.  By the end of ROTJ, they were all pretty big wigs.  There was still plenty of room for them to grow, of course, but the actors are already at the ages where their wigs would be at the end of their growth.

[Reply #63 on:]

I also hope for a return to the old beat-up clunker starships. Preferably depicted by way of physical models, though that's probably too much to hope for.

^FUCKING THIS!!!!

But Anakin's arm in episode 2 was right there! You're telling me that with all of that futuristic medical technology, nobody could have put it on ice and reattached it? Sigh.

Star Wars takes some inofficial "Lightsaber Wounds are cauterised" stance.

[Reply #64 on:]

Yeah, but Star Wars' grasp of Star Wars has always been a bit tenuous.

Well, not "always".

[Reply #65 on:]

The only hope about classic ships getting back is the ausence of Lucas now .... tought the coming in of JJ Abrams really doesnt help it at all . We have the example in the Star Trek movie... the ships barelly resemble those they SHOULD be ... the Enterprise now is bigger (i think it was finally arround 400-500m and not those gargantuan 700-1000 someone was calculating) and seems something way more advanced than even the Enterprise-E ... explanation: "the Kelvin took scans of the Narada and the federation learn things from those scans that influenced design" ..

If he is capable of making such stupid excuses..just imagine whats capable of doing with StarWars... will Imperial destroyers now appear streamlined and "futuristic" looking with the excuse of "they got their asses kicked at Endor by Calamary cruisers, so they decided to base their ships in them"..

Lucas went great lenghts to avoid the inclusion of ANY classic trilogy ship in the new one.. the only ships that appear (the Falcon for example, some EU ships like action IV transports) are by pure chance, with the Slave I being the only exception .. even ships that should be the same, like the Tantive IV corvette.. appear now diferent with more lights and shit .. excuse: "Bail modied the Tantive IV in the coming years" .. ooh suure.. he had to make the ship almost totally new despite cloning the interiors "so people got familiar" .. hell.. the 3D clone wars series is making waaay more to present classic ships than this.. they have allready showed  Luxury Yaths  , Y-Wings, Z-95s...

Same as before.. im not holding any hope.. but if the series is after ROTJ there SHOULD be Star destroyers, Calamary cruisers , frigates, X-Wings and TIE Fighters

[Reply #66 on:]

So Carrie Fisher is in for a sequel, cool?

[Reply #67 on:]

I am not sure that is cool.  I thought she didn't act anymore.  And as far as I understand, while she is most famous for Star Wars, it was exactly that trilogy that made her drop films all together.  Why would she come back to films?  And Star Wars of all of them?  I assume they made her an offer she couldn't refuse.

[Reply #68 on:]

I think I'd actually rather see the original characters recast for the sequels if they are to be included at all.  Seriously, it wouldn't bother me too much to see a post-ROTJ story that didn't directly involve them.  If Disney were to simultaneously film a post-post-ROTJ storyline, I could see the originals' return being something to be excited about.

[Reply #69 on:]

Well, I can see Mark Hamill as an older Jedi Master Skywalker, the new head of the order, sort of like the ANH Obi-wan.

Carrier Fisher - Leia as Head of the Republic Senate? The elder-stateswoman-type thing.

Harrison Ford - he's the hardest. I don't see Han Solo handling retirement well. I mean, if you're the husband of the Republics's leader, being a pirate/smuggler doesn't tend to work.

[Reply #70 on:]

Well apparently all the confirmation stories I read yesterday were just Carrie Fisher joking around:
http://social.entertainment.msn.com/movies/blogs/paralleluniverse-blogpost.aspx?post=fa3578ee-0301-4ae7-9878-254fe4334795

Gettin' real tired of your shit Carrie Fisher!

[Reply #71 on:]

Maybe Solo and Chewie go all Tennyson's Ulysses and leave the civilized galaxy behind for more adventure beyond the Outer Rim.  That'd be pretty fitting.  Especially now that he's so old he wouldn't have children to abandon and his wife could be well-established in her own right.  He could abandon all the security of home without being a...scoundrel.

I like it, El-Man.  Let's get this spec script written up and sent to J.J. PDQ.

[Reply #72 on:]

Well apparently all the confirmation stories I read yesterday were just Carrie Fisher joking around:
http://social.entertainment.msn.com/movies/blogs/paralleluniverse-blogpost.aspx?post=fa3578ee-0301-4ae7-9878-254fe4334795

Gettin' real tired of your shit Carrie Fisher!

Then George Lucas began joking around: http://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-talk/star-wars-stars-reuniting-sequel-lucas-lets-slip-172815308.html

Except, you know, probably actually speaking the truth, but pretending he was joking around, so they could announce it in a big fashion.

[Reply #73 on:]

I like it, El-Man.  Let's get this spec script written up and sent to J.J. PDQ.

Sure thing. Do you know any good agents? We're not going to get him to read diddly-squat without an agent.

[Reply #74 on:]

This is all reminding me of Indiana Jones IV. I was so excited to see the old team of Lucas/Spielberg/Ford gets back together. In the end, the movie was pretty bad, but at least the build-up was a few months of excitement in my otherwise dull life.

I foresee this going a similar way. I don't have a lot of hope that it will be a good movie, and I would have rather they kept it as episodes I - VI...but reading that yahoo article and seeing pictures of Fisher/Hamill/Ford has me kind of excited. It will be fun to see them again. Maybe they can pull it off! Maybe, just maybe. Probably not, though. But maybe!

[Reply #75 on:]

Fisher was pretty fraked up herself but she somehow took an astonoshing recovery last couple of years... i mean some years ago the net was full of jokes about her becaming Jaba the Hutt but last pics i saw from her last year she pretty much looked loke one would espect of a 55 year old woman..

Ford never left acting.. i didnt tought he would re-take the Han Solo part but he re-took the Indiana Jones so why not..

Hamill is the biggest surprise here... he had even erased StarWars from his CV because he said he was sick of people eternally asociating him to Luke Skywalker.. i tought he would turn down this offer..

him accepting means:

A- They offereed a  hel of lot of money
B- The role is actually quite minor , on a cameo level
C- both
D- They are really good at convincing

So now the fun begins..  and we all know this is the best part of it (sadly).. its like pre-Ep 1 .. everything was wonderfull, the classic trilogy special edition just had been re-released in theathers .. videogames and books all arround..  hype was the word.

Now we dont have star wars on cinemas (oddly we SHOULD had since the mvoes were being released in 3D, episode 2 should been aired last month, Ep3 was going to air in fall 2013 and the classic would air 2014 to 2015 wich is the suposed release year for ep.VII) StarWars videogames sucks (people talk good about 1313 tought) but we have more internet than ever

[Reply #76 on:]

If he isn't there already, Hamil has got to be getting to the point where he realizes very few people will ever see him as anything but Luke Skywalker.  All that's left is for him to give in to his typecasting and fulfill his destiny.

[Reply #77 on:]

Star Wars is such a damaged franchise thanks to the prequels that I think I'd prefer a re-boot to a direct continuation. That way I could ignore it a lot more easily.

[Reply #78 on:]

I'd rather see the prequels remade.

Keep Liam Neeson, Samuel L Jackson, Ian McDiarmid, Natalie Portman, and Ray Park. Re-cast all the other main characters.

Jar Jar Binks does not exist. Dooku is unnecessary, have Darth Maul be the continuing protagonist.

Make C3PO and R2D2 less cute.

And stop paying the CGI guys so much, pay the script writer and set decorators more.

[Reply #79 on:]

I think the story's too broken to keep some of the prequel's characters.  I like the idea of having Samuel L. Jackson as a more aggressive and intense Jedi, but let him turn it up to 11, motherfucker!  Similarly, I feel a more charismatic and perhaps charming Palpatine would fit the bill and could be right up McDiarmid's alley.  Dollars to donuts, if the writing and directing were better, the casting would be less of an issue.

Except for Jake Lloyd, obviously.