DotheBartman
Liquid Emperor
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Originally posted by GreyThinkyWhale: I wish they'd actually do something with the relationships in the Simpsons! Just curious, what exactly do mean by this? Do you mean for instance that Marge should have stayed in the group and appeared with them in later episodes? And the plot was weak, definitely...but I can't find fault with them going back to square one most times. It just isn't meant to be a continuous show, and many of the actual changes (Apu forms a family, Barney quits drinking, Maude dies, etc.) have been for the worse. It's better if you can pop in any random episodes and have them mostly make sense regardless of the order you watch them in. As a trivia note, on NHC recently Josh Weinstein said that in the early stages of coming up with "Who Shot Mr. Burns?", Barney was going to be the shooter....and they were actually going to have him be in jail for the rest of the series after that.
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DotheBartman
Liquid Emperor
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Originally posted by Roy Bluth:
Would he still be drunk? Who knows. Weinstein didn't say...obviously his character would have gone down a different path, so they probably wouldn't do the sobering-up episode, but I guess realistically he probably wouldn't be able to keep drinking in prison, unless Moe snuck booze in or something... I wonder if they would have even still used Barney much. He's kind of fallen the way-side anyway, but what would they do with him if he was in prison?
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evan
Urban Legend
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That would have been interesting. Even when I saw "Who Shot Mr. Burns?" when it first aired, I had a hard time believing that there would be any real lasting change to the series afterwards. If Barney was fingered as the killer, well, that would have been huge. At the time, he was a pretty major minor character to the show. Putting him in prison would amount to writing him out of the series.
In retrospect, that might not have been so bad. Aside from him temporarily sobering up, I can't remember anything really memorable Barney's done in quite a while. At least in prison his role in the show would change.
I can understand both DtB and GTW's positions on change in the Simpsons. While some change in the characters is good, sticking to continuity would be difficult at best. The show is mostly continuity-free between episodes, because of the flexible reality the writers have mentioned. If there was continuity, then we'd have things like debates over Bart and Lisa aging and whatnot. However, some change is not a bad thing. I don't hate Apu and Manjula or some of the big changes, but I can see how it frustrates some people.
If the show had gone on for a shorter period of time, we wouldn't have this discussion. I think the partial continuity and expansion of characterization are problems that come across because the writers have limited themselves with what they can do.
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Beamer
DOOP Secretary
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The Barney change sucked, it completely destroyed his character. It's a shame too, since the episode where he quit drinking was actually one of the few episodes from Season 11 that I enjoyed. I never expected it to be a permanent change, either - the ending of that episode lead me to believe that he'd be a drunk again in the next episode.
Anyway, I saw Treehouse of Horror XVI and Marge's Son Posioning lately. Here are my reviews.
Treehouse of Horror XVI
INTRO When I read that this would involve Kang and Kodos trying to cause a wormhole so the Halloween show airs on time, I thought this would be a very funny intro full of great in-jokes and digs at Fox. Instead, it was a lame, one-joke skit that ate up TWO MINUTES of time. No wonder all the other segments felt rushed. C-
BARTIFICIAL INTELIGENCE Eh, it was decent. A good parody of AI, but would make absolutely no sense to someone who didn't see the movie. Unfortunately, like AI, this dragged on for much longer than it should, and really ended nowhere. C+
SURVIVAL OF THE FATTEST This was probably the best segment of the episode, but it still wasn't that great. I didn't get into it until a repeat viewing, and even then, it just felt off. Should've been a lot funnier, and it would've been nice if they took it in a different direction to make it more Halloween-y. Still, not bad. B
I'VE GROWN A COSTUME ON YOUR FACE Now, this segment was a real shame. Out of all the storylines, this one was easily the best - it was clever, and (as far as I know) original. Unfortunately, it was really rushed, and the structure was just plain weird. We had the setup, the problem, and then an immediate sollution which turns into another problem, then that's it? More time should've been devoted to this segment to make it work. Maybe an extra scene with Lisa trying to teach Maggie the trick or something to at least smooth the storyline over. Another victim of rushing... C+
Overall, a pretty lousy Halloween special, I thought. However, it DID successfully re-create the atmosphere of some of the earlier Halloween episodes that I've felt were lacking from more recent editions, and wasn't as bad as last year's one (or Season 14's, for that matter). I still think the best RECENT Halloween episode was Treehouse of Horror XIV, though. C+
Marge's Son Poisoning
Hmmm, this episode was weird. I only saw it once, but I think I might have to watch it again to nail my opinion. The storyline just didn't work for me - and unlike usual Simpsons episodes where they do a strange story in such a way that you can believe it, Bart just felt out-of-characer through most of this episode for my liking, even if he did have a reason to be. Not as much as the bullies though... what an unfunny ending. The sub-plot went nowhere, the episode felt very slow-moving, and overall, it just really didn't make me laugh at all.
C-
The start of Season 17 looks like it's having the same problems that the start of Season 16 had. They've had some decent (though repetitive) storylines and there's plenty of good character exploration, but they're severely lacking in the laugh department. At the end of the day, The Simpsons is a comedy first before anything. While I DO like the character-based episodes - if I'm not laughing, I'm not enjoying it. Even the more emotional episodes like Lisa's Substitute and Mother Simpson had plenty of funny moments. I'm hoping this season will do what Season 16 did and pick up just before the halfway point...
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i_c_weiner
DOOP Secretary
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The Italian Bob was great. Loved that they returned to Bob. I laughed out loud when... They had the book of American criminals and had Peter Griffin for "Plagerismo"(or something like that) and Stan from American Dad for "Plagerismo il Plagerismo"(not sure if it was "il", but something like that). Greatest joke of the night.
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DotheBartman
Liquid Emperor
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Interesting that my review seems to be more negative then most peoples' this week (here and at No Homers). Here's the review anyway:
This episode had an interesting premise, and it did start off pretty well. The whole first act was funny and thankfully got most of the "Simpsons in another foreign country" stuff out of the way early. I thought as it was first going along that this would be a good outing, and do something interesting with Sideshow Bob again.
And yet, after seeing the rest of the episode, I have that nagging feeling that it shouldn't have been made. Honestly, the writing of the main story was really pretty sloppy, almost fan-fictiony. If it had been all about Bob really trying to redeem himself and start a new life that would have been interesting; perhaps after he was revealed to be a crook he could have tried to win back his family and the town, or something like that. But this all just felt like a lazy way to get Bob chasing after the Simpsons again. A lot of things didn't make sense (did he never take off his prison uniform or something? Why did his wife randomly decide to try murder? etc.) and things seemed to just sort of "happen". The whole third act with the play and such was just silly, and felt like a saturday morning cartoon. And the worst part of all this is that now the new family can't simply be written out of the show; if they ever do another Bob episode they'll have to be a part of it, and since they weren't interesting at all, that's going to be a problem.
There were definitely some good gags even in acts two and three (the "American Dad" thing had me cracking up), but things were sort of uneven in that regard too, and coupled with a pretty lousy, uninteresting story, this episode couldn't really be saved. C-
I should probably give this another viewing though, as it's kind of a weird episode.
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Nerd-o-rama
Urban Legend
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A lot of things didn't make sense (did he never take off his prison uniform or something? Why did his wife randomly decide to try murder? Just thought I'd address these. Respectively, 1) That was pretty much a lazy way of making Lisa's revelations unquestionable. No, it made no logical sense, but I found the sheer randomness of it rather funny. 2) That's how Italians actually think. Someone insults you? Knife them. Cuts you off on the highway? Submachine gun. It's a rather horrible national cliché. I will admit the episode might have been a little more fulfilling if they actually went the redemption route with Bob, but the little kid running around with a knife shouting Vendetta! Vendetta! was funny enough to make me somewhat appreciative, as was the Godfather homage at the end.
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GreyThinkyWhale
Professor
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« Reply #380 on: 12-14-2005 21:39 »
« Last Edit on: 12-14-2005 21:39 »
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Originally posted by DotheBartman: Just curious, what exactly do mean by this? Do you mean for instance that Marge should have stayed in the group and appeared with them in later episodes?
What? The minor characters anyways. I was referring to the Kirk and Louanne(?) Van Houten. Also, Lisa and Milhouse, but they could have at least had a better breakup storyline. ----- The Sideshow Bob episode wasn't bad, what with it being a sideshow Bob episode, but it wasn't great (to be expected). In comparison to other eps this season, it was pretty good.
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Beamer
DOOP Secretary
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Well, I haven't seen it yet so I can't comment on that particular scene, but keep in mind these sorts of episodes are usually all fantasies anyway. Not looking forward to this Christmas episode. Any non-Halloween episode with three fantasy stories (Simpson Bible Stories, Tales from the Public Domain, Margical History Tour) sucks, with the exception of The Simpsons Spin-off Showcase... which did suck, but was funny since it was on purpose.
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Beamer
DOOP Secretary
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I saw The Italian Bob... probably tied with See Homer Run as the best episode of the season so far, but still average in comparison to Season 16. Better than most "Simpsons go to another country" episodes, but I expected more from a Sideshow Bob episode (even if the last 2 kinda sucked).
The whole thing just felt really rushed at some points, but then went too slow at other points. Act 1 was very fast-moving and had quite a few funny moments, Act 2 was a bit slow though still had some decent bits, and Act 3 was when it went from interesting to "typical Sideshow Bob episode."
The whole thing with Mr. Burns' car went unresolved, the ending was abrupt, and Sideshow Bob's son annoyed the shit out of me... though I don't think it's necessarily a case of them permanently being a part of Sideshow Bob's storyline now like DoTheBartman suggested. I could easily see an upcoming Sideshow Bob episode where his family leaves him and that'd be the main focus of his storyline... he might even try to take revenge specifically on Lisa next time instead of Bart, since she's the one who blew his cover. Either way, The Italian Bob was pretty average. Season 17 is STILL lacking in humour, though...
B-
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