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Author Topic: Anime Fans & Anime Haters  (Read 2142 times)
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Nixorbo

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« Reply #80 on: 01-23-2002 01:14 »

1, 2, and 3 all fall under "I don't like the animation" or "The plots are lame."

Again, all of them are your opinion.  Nothing objective about them at all.
Tweek

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« Reply #81 on: 01-23-2002 04:31 »

Why can't the lovers of anime just accept that some people just don't like it, perhaps it is because they don't like the style of animation, perhaps they don't like the plots both are valid reasons for not liking it, just as fans liking it because they like the animation and plots is a valid reason for them liking it. Personally I've seen so little I won't judge it one way or the other.
wu_konguk

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« Reply #82 on: 01-23-2002 05:04 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nixorbo:
1, 2, and 3 all fall under "I don't like the animation" or "The plots are lame."

Again, all of them are your opinion.  Nothing objective about them at all.

Your welcome to your opnion but you are wrong. lets face it apart Futurama and the Simpsons very little good animation comes from america. Most American shows have plots as thin as paper. In comparison shows like Neon Genisis Evangelion have wonderfuly detailed plots, interesting characters and great animation. Americas problem is that they still see animation as something for kids, although that is starting to change, they try not to make the audience think to much. In comparison to shows Like Serial Experiment Lain which really really weird but in a good way.

Now I'm ont saying all anime is good for example I hate all that end in mon and I'm not to fond of mecha's. But the good stuff out ways the bad stuff.

  love
Zed 85

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« Reply #83 on: 01-23-2002 09:36 »

My personal view is while I don't think Anime is bad I just think a lot of the shows that use it are.
Nixorbo

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« Reply #84 on: 01-23-2002 10:22 »
« Last Edit on: 01-23-2002 10:22 »

Why am I wrong?  I'm not defending or attacking anything.  I'm just pointing out that Nurdbot and Binder's complaints about Hanna-Barbara are the same complaints that people have about anime.  I think anime is a style in its own right, that is no more special or worse than anything else out there.

My point is that anime's not terrible or great, it's just that people who get bent out of shape one way or another are really, REALLY annoying.

And can someone please tell me how one can be wrong about something as subjective as tastes in animation?
VelourFog

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« Reply #85 on: 01-23-2002 10:31 »

 
Quote
And can someone please tell me how one can be wrong about something as subjective as tastes in animation?
nix: if i understand Binder and Nurdbot's "reasoning" correctly, you are wrong because you don't agree 100% with them. 
Hawk

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« Reply #86 on: 01-23-2002 12:21 »

What IS Anime? Nurbot likes it and everyone else hate it!
Tweek

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« Reply #87 on: 01-23-2002 13:39 »

Anime is Japanese animation, plenty of people appear to like it, not just Nurdbot.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #88 on: 01-23-2002 13:49 »

Don't worry, I'm not going to have any more wars with Nurdbot, the bottom line is that our personal tastes and opinions clash on the subject of anime. Just like everyone has unique tastes in music and food, everyones DNA is different so no two people are going to agree 100%. 

Exceptance and respect are what we need to give using our personalitys, the part of us that we choose to use as we wish within it's bounderys. Also defence is good but not offence or agrovation.

I'm not a huge fan of anime and I hate any anime that ends in "mon" but I might try watching some to try to understand it and know more about it. So Nurdbot, if you are reading this then what anime movies would you say are the best? I thought about maybe trying "Akira" as it sounds good and has plenty of violence and a Sci-Fi setting, well thats what I've read anyway.
SpacemanSpiff

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« Reply #89 on: 01-23-2002 13:53 »
« Last Edit on: 01-23-2002 13:53 »

akira is pretty good i think. and i'm not such a big fan of anime...
FishyJoe

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« Reply #90 on: 01-23-2002 14:25 »

Haha, this whole thread(from Venus's first post on) is a riot.

For the record, I find myself agreeing with the Venus camp, although I wouldn't say I "hate" anime.

Like she said, the animation is all weird with the exaggerated expression(eyes bugging out, tears coming out like two huge waterfalls). If they are trying to show everyone that animation can be for adults too, then why does everything gotta be so damn goofy and weird?
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #91 on: 01-23-2002 16:07 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by wu_konguk:
 You're welcome to your opinion but you are wrong.

  laff

I think that everyone has made some good points so far both in the defense of and in the case against Anime. I am tempted to side with the "Venus Camp" (thanks for that term Fishy), but for the fact that I haven't seen Akira yet, and Monokoko-whatever, which I have been advised will either make me love or hate Anime for all eternity.

So once I see them, I should be able to make up my own mind.

Nix, go easy on Nurdbot, he has had the decency to avoid using this thread as a personal "I love Anime" miniboard.  tongue

It's nice to see a spirited free and open exchange of ideas on PEEL other than the Leela/Amy dispute, which Amy wins hands down.  tongue

All the "mon" cartoons must be ended immediately!

I saw a lot of crappy anime a while ago, which has left me feeling fairly ambivalent about the genre, but it has had one definately positive influence on the rest of the world: It keeps a potentially dangerous 14-year-old sex maniac occupied so that we are not all murdered and raped whilst we sleep.

I will not name this person, as if Nurddbot finds out that I am talking about him like this, I will be for the "Hihgj Ump"   evil laugh

Oh, I really should stop doing things like that...  no no

Venus

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« Reply #92 on: 01-23-2002 17:06 »

"Venus Camp" i have a camp now? yay for me! I shall have lanyard making and swimming lessons and unusual arts and crafts projects and councilors that drink way to much coffee and wake the campers up before the crack of dawn!It'll be fun!And there will be t-shirts. for $14.99.

oh, and nerdbot i'm not a major fan of hanna barbara or saturday morning stuff either. i don't hate it but i don't love it. I love realism. For example that Final Fantasy movie. The plot was kinda mediocre but oh god can you say 'eye candy'?
Nixorbo

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« Reply #93 on: 01-23-2002 17:15 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
can you say 'eye candy'?

Mmm . . . Dr. Ross . . .   love

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"NOOOOO HE WAS MY BROTHER!" and then got tired and slept.


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Kryten

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« Reply #94 on: 01-23-2002 19:06 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nixorbo:
 Mmm . . . Dr. Ross . . .    love


Me agrees.

Venus

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« Reply #95 on: 01-23-2002 20:37 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Binder:
And when people hate anime it always makes you think what their favorite form of animation IS then (it usually is a crapy one like Hanna Barbera or cheap saturday morning stuff, not bad shows but the animation is poor)

THIS is the kind of animation stile i like. well, technically its a painting but same thing. If anime was anything like this then i wouldn't hate it.

 http://www.fantasiaonline.com/edwards/ed4.html


The last time i tried to kill myself was about an hour ago. I jumped off this really tall building. But i ended up doing a triple backflip and landing on my feet. No one saw it of course, except for two little kittens and one kitten turned to the other and said "See? That's how you do that."
Just Chris

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« Reply #96 on: 01-23-2002 23:57 »

Here's how my friend got the craze of the whole anime thing, at 14 he watched WICKED CITY on HBO! A bumpy start, but he knew there was all sorts of different stuff he can dig into.

From a technical standpoint, the animation in anime is questionable. Most American cartoons are animated in 1's and 2's. This means that every second, it uses a new drawing every 1 frame or every 2 frames, which translates to 24 or 12 movements per second. In Japan, they usually do 4's, so there is a new drawing every 4 frames, or 6 per second. That's why the movement is so clunky. It is usually sacrificed in order to add detail to the drawings.
Nurdbot

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« Reply #97 on: 01-24-2002 00:55 »

I never Noticed that....Most of Anime Genra's is Humor (Ranma,Tenchi,Outlaw Star ETC ETC ETC)And if you just HATE The world its nice to laugh at someone else when you get home.Meh...
Nixorbo

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« Reply #98 on: 01-24-2002 00:57 »

If I want comedy I'll watch The Simpsons or Futurama.
wu_konguk

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« Reply #99 on: 01-24-2002 05:19 »

It still surprises me how narrow minded some people can be. Look not all anime involes eye popping and tears like waterfalls (not that these things are bad I just suppose you have to have the right sort of mind to like it).

One of my favriote animes and movies of all time if Wings Of Honnamise. The backgrounds are amazing and the story involving. The characters are human not some American ideal.

Okey let's just say anime is a matter of taste, we could argue until we are blue in the face. It is like someone trying to convince me that Britney Spears is talented  no no  it is never going to happen.
Nixorbo

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« Reply #100 on: 01-24-2002 11:21 »

Are you saying that anime is analagous to Britney Spears?   wink
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #101 on: 01-24-2002 13:26 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Just Chris:
In Japan, they usually do 4's, so there is a new drawing every 4 frames, or 6 per second. That's why the movement is so clunky. It is usually sacrificed in order to add detail to the drawings.

But I'm sure that Futurama has plenty of detail in it's drawings, and it still manages to maintain superb animation aswell.

Hawk

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« Reply #102 on: 01-24-2002 13:42 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Tweek:
Anime is Japanese animation, plenty of people appear to like it, not just Nurdbot.

Japanese animation?!? That's soooooo bad!
FishyJoe

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« Reply #103 on: 01-24-2002 17:16 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by wu_konguk:
It still surprises me how narrow minded some people can be. Look not all anime involes eye popping and tears like waterfalls

True. Then again, not all Hanna-Barbera animation involves repetitive plots, annoying laugh tracks, and cheesy guest stars. But that doesn't stop me from making fun of those aspects when talking about why I don't like Hanna-Barbera.

wu_konguk

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« Reply #104 on: 01-25-2002 09:25 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nixorbo:
Are you saying that anime is analagous to Britney Spears?    wink


  no no What I am saying is some people god knows why like her. And for those who hate anime they probably wonder why in gods name people like it. Well I'll tell you why it is because it is frelling excellent.  love
FishyJoe

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« Reply #105 on: 01-25-2002 15:35 »

Are you saying Britney Spears is excellent?

We could go on all day like this.
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #106 on: 01-25-2002 15:41 »

We could but we won't, OK?
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #107 on: 01-25-2002 17:10 »

No one will ever agree until we reach a compromise.
wu_konguk

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« Reply #108 on: 01-26-2002 07:30 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FishyJoe:
Are you saying Britney Spears is excellent?

We could go on all day like this.

Crap stupid computer.
Look I'll explain for the last time it is just an analogy. I personnally think that my crap has more talent than her but if you want another analogy.
Anime is like heavy metal and no matter how hard I argue that it is great some people will just not listen.
Nixorbo

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« Reply #109 on: 01-26-2002 11:13 »

I personally don't much care for heavy metal either.  Look, you just can't argue an opinion.  So I would say stop trying.
wu_konguk

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« Reply #110 on: 01-26-2002 11:22 »

If you are trying to bait me into saying something so you can chuck me of the board I will not give you the satisfaction.
winna

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« Reply #111 on: 01-26-2002 11:42 »

I awy we compromise with VIOLENCE  big grin HAHAHAHA.  Maybe some kind of fight to the death where people vote on different cartoon characters from different shows and types of animation... 

Anyways the reason most people hate Anime is because when you think of anime, you think of those stupid cheap cartoons they show on tv.
wu_konguk

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« Reply #112 on: 01-26-2002 11:49 »

Now I think some one wanted an objective view point but after years of studying history and ancient sorces there is no such thing as an objective view point there is always some kind of bias. That said I will try and argue the case being as objective as possible.

1: Art style: The art style used in anime is more varied than some lead others to believe. The reason the style varies quite dramatically from that of the western world is because of cultural heratige. In the west the art has mostly been derieved from the work of the ancient Greeks and from christianty. In Japan the style is derived from Manga a style of art that was used to tell great battles.
On the art I do not believe something should be judge on it aestetics but it's ability to tell a story.

2:The stories: The west and east's stories vary  even from the earliy days. In the west the stories prefered in ancient times were of the trials of groups of warriors such as in the Iliad by Homer. In Japan stories of lone warriors are prefered such as the ninja Jubei. In modern society the west has forgot many of it's roots were as in Japan the past is still remembered, this is why mythological creatures and monsters are used more in their work.  I believe some one earlier commented on the oddity of the forest sprit in Princess Mononoke but it may be odd because such stories are not common place in the west.

3;Reality. Now one of the things people seem to forget is this is animation and it does not have to keep it's feet firmly in reality. It characters head can change if the writers think it will help the show this can not be done in live action. It might be well to say that Anime is the transition between the Manga (comics) and Live action shows.

4:humour. Every country has different sences of humour. For example in England we have pantomimes (granted I do not think they are funny) which other countries do not seem to undrstand the humour of "It's behind you" "Where?" ect. My point being some may not find certain aspects of anime funny because the society they were brough up in did not find it funny either.

If you do not know what I am getting at it is that some might not like anime simply because of the way the brought up and the influence of socity on them. it is better to have an open mind and accept things for what they are, and that is a form of entertainment.
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #113 on: 01-27-2002 16:51 »
« Last Edit on: 01-27-2002 16:51 by totalnerduk »

I had a new idea! coming soon... Anime Poetry

Let me know what you think of it, click the link to be taken to the Limerick Thread, where I will soon post it.

Nixorbo

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« Reply #114 on: 01-27-2002 19:57 »
« Last Edit on: 01-27-2002 19:57 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by wu_konguk:
If you are trying to bait me into saying something so you can chuck me of the board I will not give you the satisfaction.

How is pointing out flaws in your argument trying to bait you into doing anything?

 
Quote
it is better to have an open mind and accept things for what they are, and that is a form of entertainment.

And if it doesn't entertain you, what's the point of watching?  And by your logic, shouldn't you accept Hanna-Barbera, Britney Spears etc., and say, I dunno, Clifford the Big Red Dog as forms of entertainment?

I have a thousand years of power.
"NOOOOO HE WAS MY BROTHER!" and then got tired and slept.


"He has the special talent, though, of being able to help people and make them feel utterly stupid all at the same time. ... In short, he's a great moderator, but a terrible human being."
-SlackJawedMoron
Sarge

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« Reply #115 on: 01-27-2002 22:00 »

Even though most anime published here in the US are lousy rip-off styles of better Japanese animators & designers, I gotta give them credit for doing a lot of hard work.
Most of the 'good' anime never makes it on TV. But they can be found in Japanese & Korean video stores. The reason they can't be shown on TV is because of sex & violence. Yes, sax & violins.
There's a lot of junk out there as well. It's sort of like hunting for good classical music albums, in a way. You don't know who's who. It's basically hit & miss.
Just Chris

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« Reply #116 on: 01-27-2002 22:36 »
« Last Edit on: 01-27-2002 22:36 »

Usually they cut sex and violence on when it's on TV, but usually without botching the whole story. Oh yeah, and cutting down on the swearing too. Just as an example, here's how much Cartoon Network screwed with Outlaw Star:

Dialogue Edit Occurs during mech scene.
McCoy: Damn kid!
McCoy: Dumb kid!

Dialogue Edit Occurs in hotel room.
Hilda: What the hell do you...
Hilda: What exactly do you...

Footage Edit: Hilda kicks one of McCoy's Henchmen in the crotch. 
Scene Edit: Dialouge from one of the guys chasing after Horus.
Henchman: Those bastards messed with us and now its time for payback. 

Dialogue Edit: Occurs during fight.
Henchman: Ah shit!
Henchman: Ah man!

Footage Edit: Gene drinking some alcohol. (occurs twice) 
Dialogue Edit Occurs on Ctarl Ctarl ship.
Ctarl Ctarl: We're gonna whip your ass!
Ctarl Ctarl: We're gonna whip your butt!

Follow Sarge's advice and go hunting in Japanese video stores. Better yet, order them online.
wu_konguk

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« Reply #117 on: 01-28-2002 04:35 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nixorbo:
 And if it doesn't entertain you, what's the point of watching?  And by your logic, shouldn't you accept Hanna-Barbera, Britney Spears etc., and say, I dunno, Clifford the Big Red Dog as forms of entertainment?



I give them a fair chance to impress me yes if they do not I just don't watch. And I don't whine about how much they suck I just let them get on with it and not let it annoy me.
  evil laugh
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #118 on: 01-30-2002 15:24 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by wu_konguk:
 
I give them a fair chance to impress me yes if they do not I just don't watch. And I don't whine about how much they suck I just let them get on with it and not let it annoy me.
   evil laugh


Much more mature attitude than several of the Anime-maniac users at PEEL.

People could learn from this.

meisterPOOP

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« Reply #119 on: 01-30-2002 22:09 »

Eh, Just a bunch of second generation 15-year olds!
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