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Author Topic: Cape Foure: The Simpsons Madness Goes On...  (Read 8891 times)
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Nurdbot

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« Reply #440 on: 01-15-2005 10:07 »

Less whiny fan boys more Simpson talk please.
TheLampIncident

Urban Legend
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« Reply #441 on: 01-15-2005 12:09 »

That WAS Simpson talk you spam-whoring fuckface.
evan

Urban Legend
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« Reply #442 on: 01-16-2005 01:36 »

So...about that new episode on Sunday?  Anyone hear anything good about it?
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #443 on: 01-16-2005 17:04 »

It sounds alright, good to have Grandpa and Mr Burns. Let's hope it lives up to it's potential...
newhook_1

Urban Legend
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« Reply #444 on: 01-16-2005 19:03 »
« Last Edit on: 01-16-2005 19:03 »

Hmmm... It's worth watching at least once. As usual, though I'm going to wait until the FOX airing before I actually post a review.

*Edit* Yeah so, I don't think it was a bad episode. It really just wasn't the Simpsons. It's been something I haven't been able the put my finger on, but I think it's been a bit of a problem this season. The humor has become less ironic and subtle and more of a bizarre mix of Family Guy, South Park, and Sienfield style humor. Its not bad, its certianlly still funny, but it just isn't the Simpsons.

Examples:
South Park: The whole Dumbo Drop thing.(Even the plot itself is really more akin to South Park. The Simpsons have had some similar to it in the past, but many recent ones have crossed a fine line into South Park's area)
Family Guy: The Couch gag. Yeah the Homer gets hurt stuff and cut aways have been on the Simpsons forever, but this one really felt like a Family Guy cut away.
Sienfled: The whole coffee thing with Apu and Flanders.

Some of the classic style stuff was still in there as well, but it was just so dilouted by these other styles of humor. As I said, it is funny, but not as funny as classic Simpsons style humor.

By the way, did anyone notice the Canadian Flanders look alike saying "Shatnerarino" in among the gibberish?

3.5/5
Nasty Pasty

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« Reply #445 on: 01-16-2005 20:41 »

Haha, good episode on tonight. Made me laugh quite a few times (which is rare for recent Simpsons episodes). Loved the bit with Flanders causing Apu to burn his tongue. Classic.

4/5
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #446 on: 01-16-2005 21:02 »

The episode was totally sunk for me because of one major plot hole: Mr. Burns stops the health plan for SNPP workers, but now the entire town can't get prescription drugs?  WTF?  Does Burns employ the entire town now?  And why can't he just rescind his policy and make the drug plan start again?
Nasty Pasty

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« Reply #447 on: 01-16-2005 21:08 »

Didn't they say that all the other companies started taking away their drug plan too?

And a possible reason for him not getting rid of the policy: He's old and stupid.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
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« Reply #448 on: 01-16-2005 21:15 »
« Last Edit on: 01-16-2005 21:15 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by evan:
The episode was totally sunk for me because of one major plot hole: Mr. Burns stops the health plan for SNPP workers, but now the entire town can't get prescription drugs?  WTF?  Does Burns employ the entire town now?  And why can't he just rescind his policy and make the drug plan start again?

Kent Brockman mentioned that other companies in town were following suite with Mr. Burns. It's not specifically because Burns did it, he was just the first. They were all doing it because the insanly high price of drugs in the US. The he mentioned that even the channel had done it, and they showed Krusty. The old folks home simpily terminated their plans due to the high price of the drugs, it had nothing to do with Burns.
quagmire

Crustacean
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« Reply #449 on: 01-16-2005 21:56 »

the writing was stiff in parts, but overall I laughed out loud a few times. Bi-polar Krusty was funny, so was Ralph tripping, bare-assed Moe was a good cheapie laugh, and the Flanders-speak was great. What movie was the scene with Smithers in the glass case in reference to? It seems so obvious, but my brain is nutting up. Anyway, I'd give the episode a B-/B for the isolated jokes/gags, but the flow of the storyline was kinda uneven IMO...

 
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #450 on: 01-16-2005 22:47 »
« Last Edit on: 01-16-2005 22:47 »

It was a reference to either Snow White or Sleeping Beauty. Probably both. Snow white was put to sleep by a poisioned apple and the Prince had to wake her up by kissing her. Same deal with Sleeping Beauty, minus the poisoned apple.
evan

Urban Legend
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« Reply #451 on: 01-16-2005 23:01 »

I must have drifted off at that point.  The episode wasn't all that great, nor was it that subtle.  The Simpsons were doing so well recently, and now this stiffly-written crap.  Please, no more obvious politics, writers.  2.5/5
Ranadok

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #452 on: 01-17-2005 00:30 »

I don't know about this one. There were a lot of great gags (Most of the Canadian stuff, especially the French/English jail bit, the Flanders/Apu scene), but a lot of gags that either just sucked (Moe's suit, Ralph's drugs) or went on too long (The drugs flowing out of the vehicle, Krusty).  There wasn't anything particularly good about the plot, but it was alright.  All in all... I'm going to re-watch before I really rate it.
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #453 on: 01-17-2005 01:35 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by newhook_1:
Family Guy: The Couch gag. Yeah the Homer gets hurt stuff and cut aways have been on the Simpsons forever, but this one really felt like a Family Guy cut away.

I think that it would have actually been funnier without Homer getting hurt.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #454 on: 01-17-2005 02:14 »

Copy/paste as usual.

This was, like "Fat Man and Little Boy", a distinctly "just a bunch of stuff that happens" episode, and a fun adventure. It obviously wasn't really too oriented towards story and focused more on gags. At this I think it was mostly successful. There were a lot of good moments, from the drug smuggling stuff over 60's music (probably the highlight), to the Canadian that wanted to see an execution of a retarded person just like in the U.S. It used a recent topic in the news (sneaking drugs from Canada) effectively without relying too much on the current events themselves, and also used side characters pretty well for the most part, which was nice. In fact there was actually some evil Burns behavior again, which has gotten increasingly rare.

The biggest problem though, disregarding even the weird plot structure like the completely useless first act (which is ignorable, since again this is just a fun adventure episode with almost no focus on the story itself), is just that there were a fair amount of gags that didn't work very well. Homer's "wild" behavior when first entering the museum (I'm not complaining about characterization here. It just wasn't funny), Moe's backless suit, Homer pulling the balloons of drugs from his throat (can someone explain this one to me?), Krusty's bi-polar behavior.....there were just too many things that fell rather flat for one reason or another. In some cases they were just bad jokes that tried to play too much on the absurdity (the balloons I think, Moe's suit) that ironically weren't absurd enough to be funny, or in other cases were funny at first but were emphasized too much (Apu's reaction to the hot tea, Krusty's bi-polar behavior where he does the laughing/crying thing three times). A lot of people are praising the Canadian Ned thing, and while I thought it was clever at first, they had the bit of them both doing the "diddly" noises to ridiculous lengths for several seconds that I thought just killed it. To be fair a lot of these problems are just general issues that the show has often run into in the last few years with the joke writing, but I think they might have just become more glaring in an episode that was focused almost purely on attempted absurdist and snappy joke-writing, and didn't have the strong story or character humor other episodes have had to help it out.

Still, before this gets too negative, overall it was an enjoyable and funny episode, with even a good couch gag (I'd have to give them some credit actually: it seems like the couch gags are suddenly getting a lot better, after being fairly lame the last few years). It also had good uses of the Simpsons "canon", like "Smartline" (first time since...."Lisa the Skeptic", probably?), Mel's lactose-intolerance, the "greaser" seniors from "Old Man and the Key", etc. And again it used side characters pretty well in general (even if it could have utilized Ned and Apu far more, IMO).

A strange episode to even try to rate.....but I'd say probably B/B-

 
Quote
Family Guy: The Couch gag. Yeah the Homer gets hurt stuff and cut aways have been on the Simpsons forever, but this one really felt like a Family Guy cut away.

I don't really see the complaint....the couch gags themselves have always been off the wall basically.  This one wasn't really any more FG-ish then the Monty Python foot or whatever, or the circus-show one (which, it actually just occured to me, is sorta similar to the FG opening theme, which came later.  Probably coincidence, but an interesting one....).  Plus, really the FG cutaways just come from The Simpsons and (moreso) The Critic anyway.


quagmire

Crustacean
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« Reply #455 on: 01-17-2005 06:23 »

well, I guess I'm the minority on some of my opinions. LOL I dunno, the Krusty & Flanders gags were like "mini rake" scenes to me...the scenes stretched out juuuussst long enough where it became absurdly funny to me.

Snow White and Sleeping Beauty...ahhh, but of course! Y'know, I'm 37 years old and have never seen either. I know the gist of the stories and all, but believe it or not I never actually viewed either movie from start to finish...hmmmmm, this might help explain a few things about myself present-day...
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #456 on: 01-17-2005 07:40 »
« Last Edit on: 01-17-2005 07:40 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:

 I don't really see the complaint....the couch gags themselves have always been off the wall basically.  This one wasn't really any more FG-ish then the Monty Python foot or whatever, or the circus-show one (which, it actually just occured to me, is sorta similar to the FG opening theme, which came later.  Probably coincidence, but an interesting one....).  Plus, really the FG cutaways just come from The Simpsons and (moreso) The Critic anyway.


Carter was the president at one time, he used to run the United States. Now George W. Bush is president, he runs the United States and if Carter walked into the oval office and tried to start running things everyone would say "You're not the president". Yeah the Simpsons used to do cutaways, they were really funny and what not, fine, but they gave them up for the most part and cut aways are more associated with Family Guy now.*

Anyways, that's not what this is about, maybe I was too quick to say it reminded of a FG cut away, but when that spear hit Homer I really could picture Peter saying "Holy crap". It seem almost like they pulled frames, while once again, the Simpsons may have done once or twice before, but it's considered more Family Guyish now. Not saying the Animators were delibraity trying to make it look like Family Guy, it's just what it reminded me of.

I stand strong by my statements about Sienfled and South Park, though.


*There's a saying in Newfoundland that applies here, "Piss or get off the pot".

winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #457 on: 01-17-2005 08:49 »

Simpsons has been Pissing for years.... FG wishes it could piss in the same bathroom as Simpsons, let alone on the same toilet. 
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #458 on: 01-17-2005 11:25 »

Its true to some extent what Newhooks touching on that quite a few at the NHC share that something about the humour these days just doesn't quite feel Simpson-esque, in fact I think its more a development through season 14 even the Scully era and season 13 tended to have this kind of fast free-flowing humour that you associated with the Simpsons.
I can't quite put my finger on what it is there's been a lot of statments put forward but a lot of them sometimes seem true but then there's something that contradicts it.

but what was odd was watching a couple of season 13 episodes recently - Sweet and Sour and Marge and and the Marijuna one, and certaintley the first acts, we're hilarious I just remember thinking what the fuck is going on some of these jokes are hilarious, the pace just keeps going and I'm not questioning any of the jokes, and they don't feel forced.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #459 on: 01-17-2005 15:49 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by newhook_1:
   Yeah the Simpsons used to do cutaways, they were really funny and what not, fine, but they gave them up for the most part and cut aways are more associated with Family Guy now.

The Simpsons never stopped doing those jokes though.  They just cut back on them because they would have gotten repetitive.  Family Guy merely "borrowed" the concept and pushed it to more ridiculous and repetitive heights, instead of doing anything truly original.  And I don't see how this even qualifies as a cutaway anyways.  I mean, it was a couch gag.  They've always been bizarre, always had quick, snappy animation.  That's what they are, and what they've always been, since long before Family Guy.  If something on The Simpsons reminds one of Family Guy, that's only because Family Guy didn't do anything The Simpsons wasn't already doing in the first place.

Not trying to discredit any of your other comments btw.....I'm just personally getting sick of the FG/Simpsons comparisons.  They're only really valid when it comes to a few select jokes that happened to be oddly similar to things FG had done (like the jukebox thing).

Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #460 on: 01-17-2005 17:11 »

Best sollution: don't watch Family Guy! Then you won't think anything on the Simpsons is a similar to Family Guy!...
starone

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #461 on: 01-18-2005 16:54 »
« Last Edit on: 01-18-2005 16:54 »

     
Quote
In the old days of the show, characters were more important than humor. In the old days, Marge was a distraught but loving housewife and mother. Now, she tries too hard to be funny. I'd rather watch a show with real characters and situations than abstract craziness. The show has become too political, it's trying to be like South Park, wild anything-can-happen (like the ep where they all turned into super powerful and dangerous Anime-like ninjas), ultra-offensive, adult characters are horrible, racist, homophobic people, but the Simpsons didn't start off like that, they were timeless, realistic, lovable characters. Unlike the current Simpsons, South Park can make political jokes and shots at racism and still keep their characters true and consistant.

I tend to think The Simpsons are currently trying to imitate South Park as well. When South Park started getting popular, The Simpsons started to imitate it to keep up.

And you forgot to add that they're trying to be super violent like South Park as well.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #462 on: 01-18-2005 17:17 »

"First thing tomorrow morning I'm going to punch Lenny in the back of the head."
*Cut away to Lenny being violently punched in the back of the head while drinking coffee*

DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #463 on: 01-18-2005 17:31 »
« Last Edit on: 01-18-2005 17:31 »

Simpsons got super violent around seasons 11 and 12 primarily.  It isn't super violent anymore, at least no more then it was pre-season 11.  They also ironically weren't that super violent when South Park was really popular, and finally ramped it up right around when South Park's popularity slid (post-movie).  And by the time South Park started to see its more recent upswing in popularity, The Simpsons had already moved away from being super-violent again.

For the most part I've never bought into the arguments of The Simpsons copying South Park.  SP isn't worth bashing for it "ripping off" The Simpsons at all(whereas Family Guy arguably is).  But I've just never seen any credible evidence that The Simpsons has tried to leach of South Park's style.  Its done political episodes (and Midnight RX isn't even a political episode really) because they've always done political episodes to begin with.  And for a short period it got super violent because Mike Scully liked super violent jokes (as did Mirkin, though he rarely subjected the main characters to the worst of it like Scully often did).  Is there really anything more to it then that?
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #464 on: 01-18-2005 18:02 »
« Last Edit on: 01-18-2005 18:02 »

No DTB I don't think there is anything else really, the only thing you can say is that south park pushed the boundaries further and writers may occasionally like to exploit that when they wouldn't have done in the past. It is also possible that there's a slight subliminal influence on writers because of what's around them, but the idea that the writers sit around and make a Conscious decision to imitate south park's style is nonsense.

South Parkís "Satires" feature horseman rising up and killing and plagues spreading because people start saying shit a lot.
Or they have B stories that blend terminator and 2001 parodies in a story about a mutant trapper keeper. (I'm not criticising, I love these episodes)
Simpsonís satire may occasionally have big stretches of reality, but usually just for a quick irrelevant joke - like the devil in Marge Vs SSCC&T&G Its just a joke its not something that the plot depends on.

The only real time a plot has been completely unbelievable are perhaps the jockey elves and The Island, but these are Scully episodes and their not satires, and they Certainly don't come close to South Park levels of surrealism.
Beamer

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #465 on: 01-18-2005 19:30 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by User_names_suck:
South Park’s "Satires" feature horseman rising up and killing and plagues spreading because people start saying shit a lot.
Or they have B stories that blend terminator and 2001 parodies in a story about a mutant trapper keeper. (I'm not criticising, I love these episodes)

Errrr... right, you've both missed the point of South Park AND the word "satire" completely. Those episodes were from Seasons 4 and 5, most of South Park's really good, smart satire doesn't kick in until around about Season 6.

As for the jokes that don't make sense, you have to remember that South Park wasn't MEANT to be fully realistic. Their first episode was about Cartman getting probed by aliens, the first Simpson episode was about Homer not having enough money to buy Christmas episodes for the family. South Park can get away with extreme surrealism since it was like that from the start... I just don't think jokes like this would work on The Simpsons (hence why I'm not so fond of the dumb, overblown impossible episodes such as Monty Can't Buy Me Love, Saddlesore Galactia and The Computer Wore Menace Shoes).

I don't think The Simpsons is necessarily copying South Park directly with wackier storylines, more violence and slightly more adult content, that's just the way mainstream comedy in general seems to be heading these days. The show's just evolving... not necessarily for the better, but still, evolving none the less. It wouldn't be the first time The Simpsons' style has changed - just compare Season 1 to Season 4.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #466 on: 01-18-2005 20:28 »
« Last Edit on: 01-18-2005 20:28 »

I wasn't saying that they were ripping off South Park, for the record. I was just saying a lot of plot points in Midnight RX were more akin to something that would be on South Park. That's all.
Beamer

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #467 on: 01-18-2005 20:31 »

Wasn't necessarily directed at you... or anyone, for that matter. Just an addition to DotheBartman's general comments, really.

Anyway, still yet to see Midnight RX, I'd really have to see the episode before making a comment, although from what I've heard of it, the plot does sound a little more like something I'd expect to see on South Park. Still, I'll wait until I watch it to judge it...
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #468 on: 01-18-2005 21:27 »

Newhook sorta has a point about the plot I suppose (and I wasn't directing my comments at you, Newhook, for the record), though I don't see it as an issue.  Actually, just off the top of my head one of episodes that seems most like it could have been a "South Park" was Itchy and Scratchy Land, especcially with that third act (though South Park would have been crazier with it obviously, with probably lots of death and probably a predictable Kenny death in seasons 1-5).  Again not criticizing South Park at all (aside from the predictability of some of those Kenny offings).
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #469 on: 01-19-2005 00:07 »

I've seen "Midnight RX," and I don't see the SP comparison.  IMO, the episode was too similar to "Bart-Mangled Banner" in that it clumsily tried to address a politcal issue directly instead of using satire.  There were a lot of preachy jokes in the episode, which SP is sorta known for in later episodes.  IMO, the preachy jokes do hurt the story a lot, and I have the same problem with SP when it does that too.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #470 on: 01-19-2005 02:12 »

"Banner" I can see, but did this one "preach" really?  It had a satirical swipe or two (Lisa line with xanax and zoloft), but otherwise to me it just seemed like it used a current topic in the news for inspiration in creating a fun, farcical episode.  It didn't really seem like they were trying to make any kind of point with it to be honest, or really being satirical at all for the most part.  Whether or not they should have is a different topic, but it didn't seem like any of this episode (again barring a satiric swipe or two) was really trying to say anything; it was just a pure-fun romp.
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #471 on: 01-19-2005 08:16 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Beamer:
 Errrr... right, you've both missed the point of South Park AND the word "satire" completely. Those episodes were from Seasons 4 and 5, most of South Park's really good, smart satire doesn't kick in until around about Season 6.

.

No I know was just pointing out the south Park is much more unrealstic, which its supposed to be and I used examples of the top of my head. 

and South Park's airing in the U.K has been too sparodic for me to properly keep track of so My knowledge of seasons and its devlopment through the different writers isn't really known to me.
M0le

Space Pope
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« Reply #472 on: 01-19-2005 23:18 »

Has that one with 50 (per)cent aired yet?  puke
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #473 on: 01-19-2005 23:21 »
« Last Edit on: 01-19-2005 23:21 »

Generally, the classic Simpsons satire had a more timeless quality to it. Look at "Last Exit to Springfeild" it was satirical of coperate unions, something that while it wasn't on the news at the time, reflects society in many ways. Union strikes happen all the time, so this episode remains current even today. Or look at Marge Vs. the Monorail(using season 4 episodes because it's usually considered the best). A town wasting newly gained money on something useless is not an unusual thing, but none were wasting it on a Monorail at the time as far as I know. We know, though, that small towns will continue to waste their money in the forseen future, once again creating that Simpsons brand ireverent satire. That is disjointed from reality, but very connected to it at the same time.

To reiterate, the thing here is, these classic episodes(yes DTB, I know you're not a fan of MVM, but I love it, personally) aren't satire of specific things in the news, but satire of things that happen in small town USA in general. Throughout most of the classic era, the Simpsons generally used this type of satire, rather than bringing current newsmakers into the fold. There are a couple of exceptions, but this has generally been the case.

This is why Midnight RX reminds me of South Park. South Park has always parodied specific events in the news. Expensive drugs are a current issue, not something general that we know will still hold true in 10 or even 5 years time. A billion things can happen between now and then, Canada's health care system could collapse, the price of drugs can go down in the states, etc. This episode and others like it will not age well. This satireing of more current events is what is generally seen on South Park, but the South Park ones are so off the wall(due to the different style of writing) that you'll probably go back and watch them in a few years time for a few laughs.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #474 on: 01-20-2005 00:43 »
« Last Edit on: 01-20-2005 00:43 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by newhook_1:

To reiterate, the thing here is, these classic episodes(yes DTB, I know you're not a fan of MVM, but I love it, personally)

Heh, well I think its a little overrated, but I do still love it essentially.  In fact it has some great mob mentality satire, though I wouldn't take the rest of it too seriously.  Regarding it being in the news though, I think it might've been a fairly recent phenomenon at the time actually, though I'd have to go back and check that commentary.

In an case, I basically agree with your stance here (again, my earlier talk about Simpsons/South Park comparisons was more about the weird notion that The Simpsons is being "influenced" by South Park, which I don't think you were suggesting).  However, I still don't see it as being a major problem with this particular episode.  Again, it uses some recent events in the news for inspiration (which they've always done occasionally, including "Much Apu" although thats more of an actual satire) for a fun story, and they weren't really trying to put much satire into for the most part.  "Banner" on the other hand is probably the, well, banner example of what you're talking about.  Issues surrounding faux-patriotism and all that are nothing new, but that episode definitely just put too much focus on specific recent events with it, and a lot of the references it relies on won't age too well.

newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #475 on: 01-20-2005 00:58 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
  Heh, well I think its a little overrated, but I do still love it essentially.  In fact it has some great mob mentality satire, though I wouldn't take the rest of it too seriously. 

Sorry 'bout that, chap. 

Maybe I am making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill here, but the point still stands. It seems current are being integrated into the show a good bit in recent years.

Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #476 on: 01-20-2005 16:27 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by M0le:
Has that one with 50 (per)cent aired yet?   puke


Not yet, but I fear it'll air within the next month or two...
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #477 on: 01-24-2005 16:26 »

I missed the episode last night. Anyone see it? Was it any good?
Ranadok

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #478 on: 01-24-2005 17:11 »

Last night was two re-runs, Sleeping with the Enemy, and She Used to be My Girl. Both pretty good.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #479 on: 01-24-2005 17:14 »

Wow, what happened to no repeats till May?  tongue Well, good to know I didn't miss a new one.
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