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Author Topic: Cape Foure: The Simpsons Madness Goes On...  (Read 8927 times)
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Nurdbot

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« Reply #280 on: 11-18-2004 07:33 »

Maybe he should make a suicide pact with his children and haul his tired over used ass off Simpsons. Along with Ralph.
DotheBartman

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« Reply #281 on: 11-18-2004 10:44 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nurdbot:
I thought after Hurricane Neddy, He'd express his general anger more. Not his annoying offensive opinions towards other people's religions.

That would ruin the point of his character.  Plus validate the bad characterization in "Hurricane Neddy".

The show isn't serialized.  The characters almost never have permenant changes.  Its just the fact of the show since day one.

Lrrr_2004
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« Reply #282 on: 11-18-2004 21:04 »

I like Ralph, it's Helen Lovejoy who needs to kick the bucket.  I strongly hate that nosey wench.  Then maybe Ned and reverand Lovejoy could become closer friends, and isn't that what we all want to see?  I'd personally love to see another Ned based episode, that has nothing to do with religion.
Beamer

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« Reply #283 on: 11-19-2004 02:51 »

DotheBartman's right - there are very few permanent changes to characters... That's why there are so many explanations to Homer's stupidity. The Simpson gene, army experiment, crayon in the brain, etc.

The only characters who've really exempt from this rule are Lisa and Apu, with Apu having a wife, then octuplets, then having an affair which constantly gets back-referenced now, and Lisa of course becoming a vegitarian and a buddhist. Can't really think of any others, although it looks as if Patty's characterisation may be a little different after this season...
Nurdbot

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« Reply #284 on: 11-19-2004 07:20 »

Change sucked. I hate all those changes. None of them were good, none of them. Just crappy filler.
M0le

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« Reply #285 on: 11-19-2004 09:13 »

 
Quote
I like Ralph, it's Helen Lovejoy who needs to kick the bucket. I strongly hate that nosey wench.
She's supposed to be like that. You'll notice that Helen Lovejoy has been like that since basically the first episode she appeared in. Ned and Ralph, both formerly good, funny characters who were likeable, are now tired gag-cycles.
Nurdbot

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« Reply #286 on: 11-19-2004 11:09 »

I think it's time to dump these old annoying catchphrases and jokes. Except D'oh. And that can only be used on a real funny moment.

DotheBartman

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« Reply #287 on: 11-19-2004 11:23 »
« Last Edit on: 11-19-2004 11:23 »

What catchphrases are you even referring to?

D'oh has been used less in recent years actually (SNPP has a nice guide to "D'oh" with proof).  Ned still says Diddly since that's what he always says.  Nelson still says "Ha Ha" because that's just part of his character.  Beyond that I don't know what catch phrases you'd even be referring to.

Although its sort of funny that people pining for the old days are now saying they should ditch the old jokes.   wink

As for Ralph and Ned, I don't see how Ned has become a tired gag cycle (at least anymore then before), though I do agree about Ralph.  I wish they'd use him a little less, or weed out some of his lesser lines.
Nurdbot

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« Reply #288 on: 11-19-2004 11:33 »

Ha Ha for example. Christ, that's been done to death. 3 times.
starone

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« Reply #289 on: 11-19-2004 11:37 »
« Last Edit on: 11-19-2004 11:37 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nurdbot:
Change sucked. I hate all those changes. None of them were good, none of them. Just crappy filler.

I'm glad someone finally said it.

They haven't used "eat my shorts" or "don't have a cow" in a long while.
Nurdbot

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« Reply #290 on: 11-19-2004 11:51 »

Also, they should kill of Agnes next. God I hate her as well.

starone

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« Reply #291 on: 11-19-2004 11:53 »
« Last Edit on: 11-19-2004 11:53 »

 
Quote
Is it my imagination or has Flanders gone from 'Goodie Goodie god bless everyone' Christian to 'You inferior Jews/Hindu's I'm better than you!' Christian?

Looks like Flanders may have pulled a Cartman if you know what I mean.

And by the way, do James L. Brooks and Sam Simon even do anything on the Simpsons anymore?
User_names_suck
Professor
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« Reply #292 on: 11-19-2004 15:10 »

Sam Simon stopped before season 5 due to a dispute with Groening, Brooks is to a varying degree at different times, We don't really know exactly with him because he's usually working on creating other shows or making films but I guess he stopped being heavily involved after season 3.
I know on a commentary Jean  mentions the 3 of them (obviously referring to himself, Groening and Brooks)met to pitch stories.
Nurdbot

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« Reply #293 on: 11-19-2004 15:14 »

I wonder what the dispute was?
DotheBartman

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« Reply #294 on: 11-19-2004 19:02 »
« Last Edit on: 11-19-2004 19:02 »

Its a long complicated story.  The short of it is that they didn't get along.  The long of it is honestly impossible to say accurately because there seems to be two sides to the story.  On Simon's side he seemed to think he was being underappreciated for his work on the show, and since he was more or less the one running the show day to day in seasons one and two he might have a point.  On the other side, he apparently wanted creator's fees (which he technically wasn't entitled to, not being the creator.  He did get a settlement for producer fees though, which he still gets despite not being involved anymore) and Groening also sniped at him a little saying he was excessively negative. (there's a New York Times article a few years ago about the show where Groening talks about it and says that Simon was always saying "Thirteen and out" during the first season, as if it was a sure thing they'd be done with by then.  In all fairness, Simon's response was that he felt the show likely wouldn't succeed, so the saying was a motivational thing on his part to have as much fun with it as they could).

It'll likely never be talked about too much more publically.  Notice its not talked about on the commentaries at all (though it is very vaguely alluded to on the "Treehouse of Horror III" commentary).  And with the rare comments, it just depends on who you ask.  The other writers of the time seem fairly complimentary towards him, but granted presumably weren't involved at all with the dispute itself.  And then you get people like Groening (or RMIII at NHC) who seem less complimentary towards him at times.
Malachy

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« Reply #295 on: 11-20-2004 13:42 »

All this controversy that just went completely over my head because I don't watch the commentaries...
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #296 on: 11-21-2004 13:11 »

Is tonights episode which you guys get "Sleeping With The Enemy"?. If it is, I really hope the reviews I read tomorrow are damn good for it. If not, I'll want to kill all people involved for ruining a potentially classic episode...
winna

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« Reply #297 on: 11-21-2004 13:24 »

Yeah it is... In fact they've been running commercials for it all over the radio waves...
JustJack

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« Reply #298 on: 11-21-2004 16:48 »

I like the simpsons but it makes me feel angry that futurama finished rather it.  Futurama is obviously better than it.
CrazyDoc

Bending Unit
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« Reply #299 on: 11-21-2004 18:27 »

'Obviously', eh? Well, it's better than Season 9 onwards, I'll give you that.
Malachy

Delivery Boy
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« Reply #300 on: 11-21-2004 21:37 »

CrazyDoc, Futurama was better than even the supposed "Golden Age" of The Simpsons. I love The Simpsons to death, but they'll never compare to Futurama in my mind.

Sleeping with the Enemy was an outstanding episode. 9/10 I loved when Homer drew himself, and Nelson's song.
SlackJawedMoron

Urban Legend
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« Reply #301 on: 11-21-2004 21:44 »

 
Quote
CrazyDoc, Futurama was better than even the supposed "Golden Age" of The Simpsons.

Er... if you say so...
Beamer

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« Reply #302 on: 11-21-2004 21:47 »

I don't get why so many people consider Season 9 to be one of the bad seasons... I think it's still up to the standards set by previous seasons (better than most of Season 8, in my opinion). There's still lots of funny jokes, lots of classic moments and the episodes compare well to the episodes of previous seasons.

I don't think the slow started to slip until Season 10, when it became a bit more offensive and a bit less funny, then it really began to slip with ovely wacky late-Season 10 episodes like Monty Can't Buy Me Love.

Still, I have no idea why so many people here consider Season 9 to be in that period of episodes where it slipped. Sure, it was produced by Mike Scully, but the episodes were still up to the usual standards... Oh well, maybe it's just me then.
bender+fry

Professor
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« Reply #303 on: 11-21-2004 21:50 »

Season 9 was pretty good, but mainly  since there was a lot of holdover episodes, such as "Homer Simpson Vs. The City of NY" and "Lisa's Sax." But still, the Scully episodes in the season were also pretty good, since he couldn't take down the show too far in just one year.
Malachy

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« Reply #304 on: 11-21-2004 21:51 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SlackJawedMoron:
 Er... if you say so...

Heh, sorry didn't mean to offend you or anything I just wanted to get some conversation going.
SlackJawedMoron

Urban Legend
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« Reply #305 on: 11-21-2004 21:57 »

I was offended, now? Because I just thought I was disagreeing without being confrontational.

Season 9 was the first time I watched the Simpsons and thought... "Um... isn't it supposed to be funnier?"

Really, I was all pumped for a new season, the Homer vs NY came on and barely dragged a laugh from me. The series continued in a similar fashion, with maybe one good laugh per episode (with the notable exception of 'The Cartidge Family, which I consider to be the last great episode). It was when I noticed that the show was on a downward turn. It's better then the seasons that followed it, for the most part, but it was definatly a let down after 8 seasons of awesomeness.
M0le

Space Pope
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« Reply #306 on: 11-22-2004 00:18 »

I'd have to agree with Slacky on this one. Season 9 and onwards just seems to be missing something the first 8 seasons had.
I'd just like to make a quick bitch about 'Fraudcast News', as well. The episode was decently done, but which idiot decided to put Elvira on again? The first time they had her on it was remotely funny, but having her just saying "boobs!" as an argument again and again is probably one of the worst Season 15 jokes. Honestly.
Ranadok

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« Reply #307 on: 11-22-2004 02:09 »
« Last Edit on: 11-22-2004 02:09 »

Sleeping with the Enemy: Pretty good all around, but there were some problems in the episode. I didn't like the ending's quick fix and over-wacky explanation of Nelson's dad. Also, characters seemed a little off-model in the first act, and not just for the 'big butt' shots (I mean, look at Nelson's mom! Her hair is TOTALLY slighly different than it was in 'Tis the fifteenth season, and the voice is only kind of close! I hope someone got fired for that blunder!), and Nelson's voice was a little odd, mainly when delivering the emotional lines, but those are minor.

The direction was supoib, as usual for the director, and most of the gags were pretty good. I loved Homer explaining how to draw himself, and Ralph's Duck, Duck, Duck was hilarious (and I'm not a big fan of Ralph these days). The story seemed to focus equally on the Lisa and Nelson/Marge plots, which was good, as they were equally strong, although the Nelson/Marge plot took more time to get rolling than I expected.

Everything played out well, and everyone was well characterized. I'd say an A-. Best one of the season!!!!1111oneoneone

Edited for paragraphfulness. Also, I have  a few long sentances, but I'm not going to bother fixing them! Ha! And I misspelled sentences, and I'm not going to fix that either! Look at me go!
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #308 on: 11-22-2004 04:32 »

This review's probably preliminary. I watched it only mostly awake after a plane flight on my tape. Plus it just seems like one I'll want to re-evaluate anyway (partially just as an excuse to watch it again though).

This is an episode I've been looking forward to for quite some time now, given that the plot was encouraging. It didn't really deliver what I expected, but I don't really neccesarily mean that in a negative way.

If this episode had a downside, its that the story structure seemed odd. Nelson doesn't even come in until act two. That's fine, it seemed like the story was more about Marge feeling unappreciated anyway, but by act three the story had seemingly reversed more to being about Nelson after all. On top of that it didn't seem like either Marge's or Nelson's story were delved into as much as might have been intended.

What this episode might have lacked in story structure though, it easily made up for with its basic flow and character writing. Normally I might seperate with individual paragraphs what I thought of the story/character writing and the humor, but in this case they were as seamlessly integrated as they've been for a long time. The humor was not only great throughout (not one mis-fire, I can say that much) but it came perfectly out of the characters and situations. It wasn't just a gag row, where the writers threw everything they could into the episode and hoped most of it stuck. Just about every line flowed perfectly from the characters and situations. Everyone was written perfectly, empathetic when they needed to be and hilarious throughout. Lisa's story in particular was very nice; another good bit of social commentary, mixed with hilarious character writing for Lisa (and not to mention brilliant voicing from Yeardley Smith). Basically, everything aside from those slight story problems was great. All of it. If I must mention specific scenes/lines, Lisa in the cake, Nelson's brief singing, and the ironic ending (which seems to validify the stucture issues actually) would be some of them.

On top of all that, of course, was the animation direction. Lauren MacMullen once again delivers excellent "camera" angles and character acting (again I need to commend the Lisa segments in particular there. Some of those poses were hysterical). MacMullen turned the "Bowlerama" sign into an actual rolling ball, and that was just a transition shot. I wish more episodes could look like this. If MacMullen's happens to be reading this, please do the movie!

Again, I might want to watch this one again and evaluate it some more (I'll want to watch it again anyway), but my intial feeling would be a:

A/A-

Did you Notice?:

-The N.H.C. sign, obviously. Mere past episode reference, or shout out? The thing that makes me wonder most is the abreviation. I don't believe it was ever written that way in "Homer the Great" (if I'm wrong though, people can feel free to correct me).
-Compared to "Brother From the Same Planet", Nelson's father was WAY off. Eh, whatever. Even if continuity mattered that much, that episode was about a "Big Brothers" program anyway.
-Sherri and Terri (and even Jacquiline Bouvier) had more screen time then they've had in years. Just as an obervation, this episode also didn't seem to feature any characters that are signatures of later seasons (Gil, Lindsey Neagle, etc) which might have contributed to the "old school" feeling. Only exception might be Nelson's parents.
-The couch gag even felt "old-school" actually. In fact it seemed like a combination of at least two previous early couch gags.
-Ralph's scene felt like a "rake scene" and seems to be getting similar reactions. Some people felt it was pointless and didn't like it. I at least thought it was funny how overly long it went.
winna

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« Reply #309 on: 11-22-2004 07:21 »

I thought it was a pretty good episode... And for some reason my hair and ear make an M and a G!  Another joke that stuck out in my mind was when Mrs. Muntz comes to the door to yell at Marge and she's walking away and her panties just randomly fall down... that spells skank in every possible way.  I however, kinda disagree with the Ralph "duck, duck, duck" scene.  Although it was slightly humorous, that last bit when they used it for about a whole damn minute right before the commercial cut was just.... way too long for it to possibly be good.  This episode is a keeper though.

Branded with Nick's Brand of Approval! Void in Kentucky, Vermont, and places where corn grows taller than your grandmother...
starone

Starship Captain
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« Reply #310 on: 11-22-2004 11:27 »

Ok. What exactly did Brooks and Simon do on the Simpsons? I know they helped developed it but I don't exactly know what the means.

And another thing, if they're not working on the show anymore then how come their names are still under Executive Produces at the end of each episode? I can undersand Greoning since he created it but the other two?
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #311 on: 11-22-2004 13:15 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
 ...this episode also didn't seem to feature any characters that are signatures of later seasons (Gil, Lindsey Neagle, etc) which might have contributed to the "old school" feeling.

Awesome! I wish those two chracaters would piss off and die. It sounds like quite a promising episode from everyones reviews, it's one of the few new eps I shall look foward to seeing some time...

winna

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« Reply #312 on: 11-22-2004 13:55 »

James Brooks helped develop The Simpsons with Groening... Think of him kinda like you think of David Cohen on Futurama... Simon was big in the early days I guess, probably ran the show day to day.
Shadowstar

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« Reply #313 on: 11-22-2004 15:44 »

Things are really lookin' up for this season. Bartman's comment makes a lot of sense; this episode did feel "old" in the sense that it focused on the longtime unseen schoolyard kids. What's good is that everyone stayed in character despite the weird storyline. Lisa still remained the same, despite her extreme weight conciousness, Bart and Nelson, same, etc. I loved Homer drawing himself, Nelson forcing Bart to eat pancakes, Marge snapping at Mrs. Muntz, and the not-so-status-quo ending. I'd say the only flaw was, as Bartman said, the A-story not starting until the second act, which has happened before, but rarely is it the B-story is introduced before the A. Or maybe I'm not thinking hard enough. Please correct me if I'm wrong. And as for the Ralph "Duck" issue, I didn't really think it was funny to begin with, as I saw it coming from a mile away. And then they did it again, which wasn't funny, and it lasted for at least a minute, as time filler. I used to love Ralph, but now he's just a tired excuse to get a joke in. But besides all that, this was still a great episode.
Grade: 4/5
Ranadok

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« Reply #314 on: 11-22-2004 19:23 »
« Last Edit on: 11-22-2004 19:23 »

   
Quote
And then they did it again, which wasn't funny, and it lasted for at least a minute, as time filler.

13 seconds, actually.


edit: 11 seconds the first time, for a grand total of 24 seconds.

It is a little longer than necessary (IMO), but nowhere near "at least a minute".
DotheBartman

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« Reply #315 on: 11-22-2004 19:40 »

Regarding Simon, he supposedly got his name permenantly attached to the show as part of his "settlement" when he left, along with the cash he still gets from the show's profits.  Whether they'd actually take his name off the show otherwise I don't know.

Brooks is still involved in some ways, and was undeniably a big force in developing the show into a half-hour show, which Groening (even as the brilliant creator) could never have done alone.  Plus Gracie Films IS his company.

Upped my grade for "Sleeping" to "A" (no minus) by the way.  Structure issues didn't bug me on second viewing, especcially with the brilliant ending aknowledging the inconclusiveness.  The hate for the Ralph scene makes no sense to me; in terms of behavior it was no different from "Classic Ralph", plus the "Rake scene" is so popular now despite being funny for the essentially the same reason of it going on too long.
starone

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« Reply #316 on: 11-23-2004 00:21 »

This is Groening related so....

Does he still do Life in Hell? I heard he does.
Futurama Nerd

Professor
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« Reply #317 on: 11-23-2004 00:40 »

I believe he still does, but I could be wrong.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #318 on: 11-23-2004 10:48 »

He still does, although I'm rarely able to find the new ones.
leelaholic

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« Reply #319 on: 11-23-2004 14:32 »
« Last Edit on: 11-23-2004 14:32 »

Okay, here's my late review of "Sleeping With the Enemy"

A really fun and creative episode, with a strange pairing of Marge and Nelson. Marge, who is ignored by her children, becomes motherly toward Nelson, who is ignored by his mother. A plot perfectly fitting for these two characters. Bart's objection to living with his bully made it even more interesting. Lisa's subplot was great, too, although a story about worrying about her weight does seem more fitting to a older character, Lisa actually acted like a kid here, rather than some bizarre mini-adult. It even set up for Nelson making her feel better by pranking Sherri and Terri for teasing her. The ending was perfectly done, and left you feeling good.

Moving on to the writing, this was a very well scripted episode. Everyone was in character and the Marge/Nelson friendship was developed perfectly. The humor was great, too, as this episode stayed funny the whole way through with bits like the "How to Draw Homer" meta reference. The emotion of this episode worked fairly well, too, with scenes like Marge and Nelson's trip to the zoo, Nelson briefly singing (beautiful animation, too), Mrs. Muntz's visit, etc.

In addition, there's the amazing direction by Lauren Macmullen. It looked great. Some of her best, actually. Overall, it was a really well done episode. I'd call it the best of the season, but only three episodes have aired, so that wouldn't be saying much.

Season 16 Grades So Far

"Treehouse of Horror XV" A-
"All's Fair in Oven War" B-
"Sleeping With the Enemy" A
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