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Author Topic: Star Wars: Untouched or Altered?  (Read 1901 times)
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PEE Poll: Star Wars:  Untouched or Altered?
Untouched.  Leave classics alone!   -21 (80.8%)
Altered.  The changes make it better!   -5 (19.2%)
Total Voters: 26

David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #80 on: 09-20-2004 23:52 »
« Last Edit on: 09-21-2004 00:00 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by evan:
  Here's the controversy regarding "Greedo shoots first."  In the original film, Greedo didn't shoot at all.  This was to show that Han was basically a ruthless bastard smuggler, who ignored morals in order to survive.

Yeah, that, and it showed that Han was smart enough to realize that there was no way that Greedo could have missed from two feet away.  If Han had let Greedo shoot first, Greedo would have shot him and he would be dead.  Nobody would have shot second.

Having Greedo shoot first and miss is politically correct nonsense.  You're not allowed to have the good guy shoot someone who didn't shoot at him first.  (Not that Han was really a good guy anyway.)
bankrupt

Urban Legend
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« Reply #81 on: 09-20-2004 23:58 »

Thank you for spelling out the Greedo thing in a clear way.  It's so simple, but some don't seem to get why it's so irritating to some fans (like me). It should be clear now.   
Blackadder11

Starship Captain
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« Reply #82 on: 09-21-2004 00:49 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SlaytanicMaggot:
Also, if everyone's so pissed at Lucas changing things so much, why didn't - and why isn't - anyone howling at Peter Jackson to not make the extended versions of the Lord of the Rings movies?


The extended edition was how it was originally made, not added on later. The theatrical versions were only shortened because of length, not quality.

Lucas on the other hand, adds pointless scenes to show off computer graphics, or make Han more one-dimensional and likeable.

"Why, if it isn't my old arch nemesis, Satan!"
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #83 on: 09-21-2004 02:01 »

Lucas: Who cares about fans? I HAVE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!

Summary of it all.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #84 on: 09-21-2004 02:53 »

The other thing is the EE of the LOTR movies are closer to the originals... ie the books.  Whereas the special editions of star wars are not closer to the originals... ie the original movies.
Tweek

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #85 on: 09-21-2004 04:13 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nurdbot:
Lucas: Who cares about fans? I HAVE MILLIONS OF DOLLARS!

Summary of it all.
I guess if I was in his position I'd want to maximise my millions too, I wonder if in a few years, when sales have dropped, a a good quality master copy of the original films will be "found" so he can sell those on DVD too.


David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #86 on: 09-21-2004 05:29 »

I don't think that Lucas is just doing it for the money, though.  If he just wanted to make more money he'd make both versions available.  That way, those of us who like the original versions would buy those, people who actually prefer the ruined versions would buy those, and people with more money than sense would buy both to complete their collections.

Then again, maybe Tweek is right, and he's just waiting to see how the DVDs sell before putting the originals on DVD, so that people who got suckered into buying them because they were the only versions available will have to buy the DVDs twice.
VelourFog

Space Pope
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« Reply #87 on: 09-21-2004 06:28 »

There's a cover story in Entertainment Weekly that speculates the reason Lucas is screwing with Star Wars is because it was a painful time in his life and this is a sort of therapy.


freak
M0le

Space Pope
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« Reply #88 on: 09-21-2004 06:39 »

It must have been painful. He did create Howard the Duck afterwards.
M Jackson
Professor
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« Reply #89 on: 09-21-2004 07:04 »

I'm sorry, but some of you are just a bunch of ungrateful Fuckers! It's not like George Lucas had to make Star Wars in the first place. But he had a vision and he stuck with it, he made it for himself (something he has stated many times before). It just so happens that along the way millions of people went nuts for it and it ended up making millions of $. If George Lucas "Hates" the fans so much then why does he put SO much effort into every DVD release. Producing hours of quality documentries and pushing the boundries or technology (often setting new standards) to create the best possible quality version of the film? If this was all about the money then he would never even have made The Empire Strikes back! He was already set for life with Star Wars! He continiues to make the films because he genuinley enjoys telling stories. + many fans claim to HATE the prequels so much but they all go to see them 5 times at the cinema and buy the DVD on release day! Some fans seem to be behaving like spoilt brats!
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #90 on: 09-21-2004 07:17 »

Hey, isn't that Michael Jackson molesting Geroge's retarded child over there?
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #91 on: 09-21-2004 07:56 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by VelourFog:
There's a cover story in Entertainment Weekly that speculates the reason Lucas is screwing with Star Wars is because it was a painful time in his life and this is a sort of therapy.


freak

I'd believe it.  His wife did divorce him while he was making the trilogy.
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
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« Reply #92 on: 09-21-2004 09:27 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by VelourFog:
The only way he'd use polls is to determine the what the fans want and do the opposite. He's a fan hating bastard.

What makes you think he hates the fans? Oh right, some hack in EW said so. Neat.

I don't think he hates the fans, he just doesn't care what they think. Which is fine by me, because the fans are idiots. As much as the special editions suck(especially his refusal to acknowledge the existance of the original versions), Star Wars in general would suck 1000 times more if the fans were in charge.
M Jackson
Professor
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« Reply #93 on: 09-21-2004 09:56 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nurdbot:
Hey, isn't that Michael Jackson molesting Geroge's retarded child over there?

You know just how to wind me up Nurdy  laff

Anyway that's my opinion i'm not scraping for some lame messagboard fight, I just really like Star Wars and I find it strange that the more "hardcore" a fan is, the more they appear to hate Star Wars. Becoming twisted sarcastic empty shells of human beings.
It's like they turn to the dark side   smile
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #94 on: 09-21-2004 09:57 »

At least we'd keep the pathetic kiddie versions of the villans of the original Trilogy out if we were in charge.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #95 on: 09-21-2004 10:20 »

I don't understand what the big deal is, they're his movies, he can do what the fuck he likes with them.
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #96 on: 09-21-2004 10:33 »

Not exactly 100% his, Melll. The directors of the other two originals and writers own huge chunks as well.
SlackJawedMoron

Urban Legend
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« Reply #97 on: 09-21-2004 10:37 »
« Last Edit on: 09-21-2004 10:37 »

Of course he can do what he likes with them. However, it might have been nice if Lucas accepted that not everyone likes the changes he's wrought on his films. Simply releasing both the original and the Extra Special Editions in these new sets would have silenced all these criticisms being levelled at him, and everyone would've been happy. Alas, he didn't, so now the world shall have to put up with angry Star Wars fans.

EDIT: That said, I probably will get these DVD's eventually, if for no other reason then my poor old VHS editions are deteriorating from overuse.  wink
evan

Urban Legend
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« Reply #98 on: 09-21-2004 10:41 »

And he would have sold a lot more dvds sets to all those people pissed off at the special editions.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #99 on: 09-21-2004 10:44 »

I give Lucas credit for giving us Star Wars in the first place.  I even give him credit for Attack of the Clones, which I did enjoy (though there's no way out of saying that The Phantom Menace was awful).  But while he "gave us" Star Wars, it was also the fans that made him who he is.  They loved the movies and paid for all of the tickets and merchandise that made Lucas rich enough to make The Empire Strikes back and every other SW movie to begin with.  I just think he owes it both to the fans and to film historians to provide the original cuts and keep them preserved for future generations.

With that said....certainly some fans are overly "ungrateful" and given all of their terrible fan fiction and "opinions" I wouldn't exactly give them control of the series.  But then I never said that either. 
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #100 on: 09-21-2004 11:46 »

I'm cool with everything but Jar-Jar, Hayden and the Greedo shoots first thing.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #101 on: 09-21-2004 12:25 »

There's the saying, "you can't please everyone...", I for one, don't have too many complaints about the Specials Editions or Episode One and Two.
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #102 on: 09-21-2004 12:27 »

You are not a nerd, you wouldn't understand.
bankrupt

Urban Legend
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« Reply #103 on: 09-21-2004 12:37 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Melllvar:
There's the saying, "you can't please everyone...", I for one, don't have too many complaints about the Specials Editions or Episode One and Two.

Except that Lucas could easily please almost everyone by releasing both the originals and the special editions, making himself even more cash in the process.  They're his films, so if he wants bury the originals despite requests from many fans, that's his right.  It is however my right as a fan not to be happy with the decision. I'll show it by not buying the DVDs. 
termos

Starship Captain
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« Reply #104 on: 09-21-2004 13:05 »

I bought the DVDs today. I think the scene with Greedo is incredibly lame, for all the reasons stated above and one more: it's simply not possible to miss at that range!

But since that's the only thing I don't like in the special editions of 4, 5 and 6, I don't think it's that big a deal. I don't see why this pisses people off so much - worse things have happened, like episode 1 for instance.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #105 on: 09-21-2004 13:23 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by termos:
 worse things have happened, like episode 1 for instance.

Oh how true that is...

DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #106 on: 09-21-2004 13:56 »

Episode I is worse, but I think the intensely negative reaction to the changes is that it makes it more personal.  Phantom Menace sucked, but one can ignore it if they must.  Just not pay attention to or it ever watch it again.  I certainly have no ambition to watch it again personally (maybe when all six movies are out I'll trying watching it again to see how everything ties together, but another view might just put me to sleep instead).  But when they mess with the original trilogy...it feels like they're directly messing with our childhoods, and/or the movies that made us love Star Wars to begin with.  And aside from VHS tapes that will eventually wear away, there isn't even much of a way of going back to the movies we love, the way we love them and remember them.

In short, Phantom Menace doesn't have to effect our perceptions and the quality of the original trilogy....these changes do.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
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« Reply #107 on: 09-21-2004 14:53 »
« Last Edit on: 09-21-2004 14:53 »

I you're worried about your VHS versions wearing out, download the OT off a P2P program and burn it off on VCD. If you look hard, you can find a version of OT with vhs quality picture and sound which can be put on 6 vcds. It's not illegal for you to make backup copies in case the tapes you paied for wear out.
M Jackson
Professor
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« Reply #108 on: 09-21-2004 15:33 »

Actually i'm glad only the special editions are available on DVD. Having the originals available on the same set would just seem a bit...sloppy. It's like he's saying i'm not sure which version is best. Atleast he has the confidence to believe in himself and present the film the way he sees fit. So if the originals were included I wouldn't be as satisfied, I don't want or need to see them. I'm from a generation that wouldn't appreciate them as much in this day and age. I know they blew people away at the time, but they wouldn't hold up now. In their current digital state they are able to hold thier own against (and surpass) the outstanding Lord of the Rings films!

Has anybody else watched the commentary for Empire yet? Irvin Kershner somehow manages to come across as a really warmhearted and dedicated guy, even though he spends most of the running time simply describing the action on the screen. His enthusiasm manages to hold your attention though.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #109 on: 09-21-2004 16:20 »
« Last Edit on: 09-21-2004 16:20 »

I think the unedited effects in "Empire Strikes Back" beat out Lord of the Rings anyway.  The movies have held up really well; I think its the CGI that makes them look worse.  The Death Star II battle looks better then anything produced now.

Plus a lot of the changes aren't even entirely effects changes, just pointless changes that slow down the story or partially spoil the story.

I also don't see what courage/confidence has to do with it.  The originals could still be there for historical reasons.  Lucas could come on screen right before and say "here's the version that sucks donkey balls" for all I care, as long as its there.  They did it on the Alien set.  I don't see why they couldn't here.
Speli

Urban Legend
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« Reply #110 on: 09-21-2004 16:22 »

I personally think the DVD would do better if there was an original version and a new version option. And also, I think that the animation in Star Wars will forever be infinitely realer than any CGI.
Grim

Professor
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« Reply #111 on: 09-21-2004 18:41 »

Well I got the DVDs, and the picture quality is absolutely awesome. No grain or dirt or anything, looks brand new, probably better than when it played in cinemas!
newhook_1

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #112 on: 09-21-2004 19:17 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
I think the unedited effects in "Empire Strikes Back" beat out Lord of the Rings anyway.  The movies have held up really well; I think its the CGI that makes them look worse.  The Death Star II battle looks better then anything produced now.

I was watching Empire the other day, and I have to ask. Was the scene where the tie fighters were tailing the Falcon into the asteroid field during the escape from Hoth
touched up in any way for the SE releases in '97? Because that is absolutly one of the best looking scenes ever.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #113 on: 09-21-2004 22:52 »

I think it actually wasn't touched at all.  All original effects. 

As a trivia note, watch carefully when the first TIE blows up (hit by an asteroid).  If you watch really carefully, you can see a little pilot miniature flying out of it.  Although obviously it might be hard to see depending on the video quality.
SlaytanicMaggot
Professor
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« Reply #114 on: 09-22-2004 01:31 »

I think the explosions were proably a tad bit improved upon, but nothing else, really.

Please edit your sig to 120 pixel height max.
[This message has been edited by Administrator [-mArc-]
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #115 on: 09-22-2004 02:17 »

To be honest, I think what the CGI effects do is break the suspension of disbelief, because the entire films are no longer of the same visual standard throughout.

To me it's much more important to maintain consistency throughout a film by having all it's effects the same. I don't care whether that means it's 1970s tech or 2004 tech, as long as it's all the same. Otherwise you're immediately notified when there's a scene which is CGI, because it doesn't look the same.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #116 on: 09-22-2004 02:18 »
« Last Edit on: 09-22-2004 02:18 »

I looked it up on IMDB, and found no evidence of improvements on the Asteroid scene(and watching my original cut tape of it recently I didn't notice a difference).  It was all model effects.  That's how good ILM effects were back then.

And yeah, I'd agree with that Cyber.  It just looks too...glaring when a CGI effect pops up in a 70's/80's film.  And when the CGI effects are actually worse, it makes it even more glaring.

EDIT:  Oh, and....
 http://penny-arcade.com/view.php3
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #117 on: 09-22-2004 12:02 »

More edited scenes from the planned special edition VHS box set.
Melllvar

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #118 on: 09-22-2004 12:46 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nurdbot:
You are not a nerd, you wouldn't understand.

Ahhhh, so much you don't know....

We'll agree to differ, however, I'm with you on Jar Jar (he, or course, makes the Ewoks look like Shaft  wink).
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #119 on: 09-22-2004 14:00 »

Yeah, I agree there.
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