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Author Topic: Star Wars: Untouched or Altered?  (Read 1806 times)
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PEE Poll: Star Wars:  Untouched or Altered?
Untouched.  Leave classics alone!   -21 (80.8%)
Altered.  The changes make it better!   -5 (19.2%)
Total Voters: 26

newhook_1

Urban Legend
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« Reply #40 on: 09-19-2004 19:17 »

Sorry, that was me. It was a little joke for the pirate thread.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #41 on: 09-19-2004 19:27 »

Its hilarious anyways.  No need to apologize.
Action Jacktion

Professor
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« Reply #42 on: 09-19-2004 20:14 »
« Last Edit on: 09-19-2004 20:14 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
There's actually an interesting story about that, Winna.  They WERE going to redo the Indiana Jones films....but of all things, "South Park" may have been what stopped them.
 http://www.jimhillmedia.com/mb/articles/showarticle.php?ID=253
I don't know about that.  Complaints about the Star Wars Special Editions didn't stop Spielberg from making lots of changes to ET.  But I wonder if the negative reaction to the new version of ET--including the fact that its theatrical release bombed--put Spielberg off making any changes to Indiana Jones.

A new version of Raiders was never officially announced; the writer of that article just says he has sources that told him about it.  But the DVD version of Raiders does have slight alterations to remove a few goofs, including the famous one where you can see the glass separating Harrison Ford from the snake.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #43 on: 09-19-2004 20:27 »

Yeah, I do know about those small changes.  And supposedly Spielberg recently brought up the topic of an altered Indy set so I think its clear they were at least considering it.  Plus, really....this is Lucas and Spielberg....do we really think they wouldn't consider it?

Also, it should be noted that that guy (Jim Hill) is very reliable and does indeed have lots of connections and inside info (mostly about Disney, but I think he's reliable here too).  So I basically buy the story.  I don't know that the episode alone stopped them but I think it made them seriously reconsider.  The bombing of the E.T. SE was probably considered too.
SlaytanicMaggot
Professor
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« Reply #44 on: 09-19-2004 20:32 »

I was pissed that the classic star wars movies weren't going to be on the DVD, but then one of the star wars people said in an interview on NPR that the reason they don't have the classic versions on the DVDs is because the masters were deteriorated beyond the point where they could still be restored. They said that had they been able to find restorable masters, the classic movies would have definitely been on the DVD.

But then again, that wasn't Lucas talking, it was one of his associates. Lucas seemed to be pretty adamant in his Entertainment Weekly interview that the DVD versions of the movies are the complete versions, with everything he orignally envisioned them to have in them.

On a side note, while I dislike Lucas constantly altering his movies, as a person who wants to be a filmmaker, I do share his disdain for movie studios.

Please edit your sig to 120 pixel height max.
[This message has been edited by Administrator [-mArc-]
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #45 on: 09-19-2004 20:35 »
« Last Edit on: 09-19-2004 20:35 »

Yeah, I think that's just a cover story....they restored them back in 1997 and could easily do it again.  It wouldn't be that hard to do at all, especcially if they are other (more pristine) copies out there that they could use as substitutes.  And if it was the real story, Lucas would just adress it that way, and he hasn't.  Even his other cronies haven't and have said conflicting things.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #46 on: 09-19-2004 21:05 »

Actually I made that statement because I was thinking about that South Park episode (one which I loved).  I however, did not realize that it went as far as that, and I thank you for the article DtB  smile
bankrupt

Urban Legend
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« Reply #47 on: 09-19-2004 22:50 »

I won't touch the new DVDs.  It's the originals or nothing.  From seeing some interviews with Lucas, it looks like it will be nothing.

It doesn't matter, I have a friend who has the originals on Laser Disk.  Eventually we'll be able to transfer this to DVD with the help of a burner, etc.
evan

Urban Legend
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« Reply #48 on: 09-19-2004 22:57 »

I'm torn.  I really want to see the originals on dvd, and I wonder if the additions are that bad.  Are a few lacking scenes worth ignoring the only time SW will be on dvd?

Ah, heck, I'll just borrow them from some gullible friend...
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #49 on: 09-19-2004 23:05 »

Well, I actually think there may be hope.  People have noted that after Episode III Lucas will likely put them out again as one gigantic set (hopefully with the option of buying two seperate sets, since I don't really want to pay for AOTC again).  People have also noted that the set coming out now seems somewhat.....let's say "half-baked" for Star Wars.  Yes, the features are commendable by most accounts but at same time a lot of things are evidentally left out, especcially for Star Wars.  The lack of deleted scenes is especcially jarring and at least from what I've seen of the "Empire of Dreams" documentary they don't seem to contain them.  So some are theorizing that in 2006 (maybe 2007 if he wants to capitalize on the 30th anniversary) he'll release one big set that has both versions of each one, despite Lucas' recent comments.  Its not like he hasn't changed his mind before (he once said he'd never do the prequels).  This set seems to be a "preview" of what's to come....

But, all speculation I suppose.  Back to discussion.
Grim

Professor
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« Reply #50 on: 09-20-2004 01:41 »

isnt it possible for the 30th anniversary they'll be changed even more? Hell! He might even go back and change Phantom Mennace!
Nixorbo

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #51 on: 09-20-2004 01:59 »

...Is that a bad thing?
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #52 on: 09-20-2004 03:33 »
« Last Edit on: 09-20-2004 03:33 »

Back in '99 I think he was already talking about making changes to Phantom Menace...

Although if they involved the clubbing, stabbing, impaling, firebombing death of Jar Jar, it might be worth it.
M0le

Space Pope
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« Reply #53 on: 09-20-2004 05:13 »

Maybe they'll invent a time machine in Episode III and go back to kill Jar Jar so every single stupid thing he does never occured! Naboo would be occupied by the Trade Federation! Definately a good thing.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
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« Reply #54 on: 09-20-2004 05:18 »

I heard that they were rerealeaseing episode 1, alongside episode 2 and 3, next fall with a fully digital Yoda.
VelourFog

Space Pope
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« Reply #55 on: 09-20-2004 05:38 »

 
Quote
I don't know about that.  Complaints about the Star Wars Special Editions didn't stop Spielberg from making lots of changes to ET.  But I wonder if the negative reaction to the new version of ET--including the fact that its theatrical release bombed--put Spielberg off making any changes to Indiana Jones.

Spielberg still released the original version of ET at the same time as the new version.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #56 on: 09-20-2004 06:07 »

Jar Jar will never die unfortunately.  I hear that Jar Jar is like his (Lucas) son's favorite character ...  roll eyes :shakehead:
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #57 on: 09-20-2004 06:22 »

Lucas's 23 year old mentally retarded son? Not even a child would like Jar-Jar.
M Jackson
Professor
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« Reply #58 on: 09-20-2004 09:26 »

I've just got my shiny new Star Wars DVDs in the post this morning and i've just watched the featurete abut the lightsabers. It's really good but what made it even better is as the credits run on one side of the screen, a few short clips of lightsaber spoofs in pop-culture are shown. And I was happily suprised to see the clip of Fry in War is the H Word cutting open the training droid and making all the candy fall out! Futurama has been offically acknowledged by Lucas, so all the millions of people who buy the DVD will see the Futurama clip. maybe it will lead to a whole new bunch of Futurama fans?

I've watched a few scenes in Return of the Jedi and if you've got a decent home cinema set-up you won't believe just HOW F***ING GOOD these films look and sound on DVD! The image quality looks just as good (maybe even better?) the Attack of the Clones! Stick with your grainy old VHS tapes you sad sarcastic nerds.
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #59 on: 09-20-2004 09:45 »

Whoo, sounds like quite a purchase after all.
Action Jacktion

Professor
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« Reply #60 on: 09-20-2004 09:49 »
« Last Edit on: 09-20-2004 09:49 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Grim:
isnt it possible for the 30th anniversary they'll be changed even more? Hell! He might even go back and change Phantom Mennace!
The DVD version of The Phantom Menace is already a lot different from the theatrical version.  Some scenes are extended and others have been altered.

 
Quote
Originally posted by VelourFog:
Spielberg still released the original version of ET at the same time as the new version.
Only the new version was released theatrically.  People complained about it and it bombed.  Later he put both versions on the DVD, and no one complained.  If they were planning to do a new version of Indiana Jones, they probably would have released it with the original, but maybe the lack of interest in ET made them realize that people just don't care about special editions (and that they would have opened themselves up to even more criticism about changing their movies).
Tweek

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #61 on: 09-20-2004 11:51 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by M Jackson:
...Stick with your grainy old VHS tapes you sad sarcastic nerds.
I most certainly will  smile

Jicannon

Urban Legend
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« Reply #62 on: 09-20-2004 11:54 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by winna:
Jar Jar will never die unfortunately.

Lucas has already said Jar Jar will not die in RotS
  evil laugh
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #63 on: 09-20-2004 12:00 »

So Jar-Jar-Moron will be speared by Anakin in a fit of rage with a light sabre?

*Does the happy bending dance*
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #64 on: 09-20-2004 13:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Tweek:
I don't think you see the whole thing, I'm fairly sure you see flashes of parts of it including the face, I might be wrong though, I haven't seen it for a while, I'll have to get my tape back.

Tweek is right, by the way.  You do see the Wampa (or parts of it at least) in the original version.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #65 on: 09-20-2004 13:15 »

My dad got the set this morning, and I have full access to them too, for free!... Anyway, I watched the first one this afternoon, and couldn't believe the picture quality! It's absolutely astounding! It does vary slightly during the movie, some of the desert scenes aren't as sharp, still amazing though. Everything inside the spaceships could have been filmed yesterday! The sound is pretty damn good too, although you can tell it was done a long time ago more so on sound quality, than picture. I've read the sound quality is better in the other two anyway, not that it's bad or anything in the first...
M Jackson
Professor
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« Reply #66 on: 09-20-2004 14:15 »

The new footage of Hayden and the shot of Naboo celebrating intergrate very well to the ending montage of ROTJ. It really makes the original films tie together with the prequels. Better than just a couple of grainy shots of ewoks dancing around a campfire singing "yub yub" anyday.
ONE thing that I can't believe Lucas hasn't improved in the Rancor! It looks pretty good in a couple of shots but overall it's the one effect in the trilogy that is now looking a bit dated. How come they even re-did the 1997 Jabba in a new hope AGAIN for the DVDs, but haven't made a cool CG Rancor? Surely even the "I'll stick with my shity old VHS" nerds would welcome an improved Rancor? A minor complaint for an otherwise OUTSTANDING DVD set.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #67 on: 09-20-2004 15:10 »
« Last Edit on: 09-20-2004 15:10 »

Actually, I'd heard the Rancor was improved.  Like with a lot of the '97 effects I guess they did a poor job.

And no, I would not support an improved Rancor, at least unless the original version could still be seen, matte lines and all.  Its part of history.

And yes, I'm sticking to my grainy video tape.  I'm not thrilled about it, but a ROTJ with Hayden Christensen is simply not the movie that I love.  When the original version is finally made available (even just packaged in with the neutered version), I will race to the store.

Good to see Futurama getting some cred though.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #68 on: 09-20-2004 15:17 »

'Tis a quandry, to be sure - once a film is released, does the filmmaker still "own" the story, in terms of personal attachment and right to change it; or does it then "belong" to the fans?

Personally I'd fall in on the latter side of the fence; after all, the basic point of storytelling (which, when you get down to basics, is what films are) is to share the idea with others. Going back and changing it later on and then outlawing the telling of the original version, in my opinion, shows a lack of respect for those whom you first shared the story with (and let's not forget that Star Wars made it's money back from moviegoing patrons).
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #69 on: 09-20-2004 15:24 »

Yeah, plus there are others that did important work on the movies (including Mr. Sebastian Shaw).  Lucas didn't make them singlehandedly and didn't even direct Empire Strikes Back (Return of the Jedi is debateable, in terms of who was REALLY directing it).  Incidentally Gary Kurtz has already said that he disagrees with Lucas changing the movies.
Nerd-o-rama

Urban Legend
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« Reply #70 on: 09-20-2004 15:52 »
« Last Edit on: 09-20-2004 15:52 »

Restoration = Good
New Scenes = Good
Deleting or altering previous scenes (beyond cosmetic changes) = BAD

I grew up with the originals on TV (to some degree,) but I never paid that much attention until I saw Special Edition in theaters.  I didn't really notice anything more than the graphical changes and the two or three long added scenes.  I know there was other stuff there, it just wasn't important to me.  This new release, though, seems to be going a bit overboard.  What the Hell is Hayden Christiansen doing in it?

Personally, I think Lucas is an obsessive perfectionist.  He also seems to get off on annoying his fans, just because he knows 98% of them are going to buy anything new he comes out with anyway.

Here's something I'd like to see: Lucas vs. a team of Kevin J. Anderson, A. C. Crispin and Timothy Zahn in a battle to the death over whose story is canon...

Edited so I can be like George.
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #71 on: 09-20-2004 17:40 »

If they removed Hayden I wouldn't mind as much.
newhook_1

Urban Legend
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« Reply #72 on: 09-20-2004 18:38 »

Hayden is my only real beef as well. They got rid of Lukes scream in ESB, which is a good thing, I didn't really care about Han shooting first, and if the 3D Jabba in ANH looks better than my problem with that is gone as well.
I'm still on the fence about picking up the set, though. One thing's for sure I'm sure as hell not going to the mall tonight and waiting in line till 12:01 to get it.
termos

Starship Captain
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« Reply #73 on: 09-20-2004 18:58 »

Well I'm going to buy the new versions. I have the old ones anyway. Not on DVD though, but there's something about VHS that brings back memories.
SlaytanicMaggot
Professor
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« Reply #74 on: 09-20-2004 20:16 »

Having been born in 1985, I guess I can't say I see the whole argument here. But I do want to know why the freaking Greedo thing is such a big fucking deal to everyone in the first place. I don't really see the deal why people care if Han shot first, but Lucas obviously felt it wasn't the character of Han Solo, and just decided to put in a few green beams. So fucking what? Like the dude who posted before me said, the only thing that bugs me is the Hayden Christain thing in "Return of the Jedi." But none of the changes will stop me from still enjoying the movies, or buying the DVDs. However, I will not buy the DVD's if they're like 50 bucks... Also, if everyone's so pissed at Lucas changing things so much, why didn't - and why isn't - anyone howling at Peter Jackson to not make the extended versions of the Lord of the Rings movies?

Please edit your sig to 120 pixel height max.
[This message has been edited by Administrator [-mArc-]
VelourFog

Space Pope
****
« Reply #75 on: 09-20-2004 20:21 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Action Jacktion:
Quote
Originally posted by VelourFog:
Spielberg still released the original version of ET at the same time as the new version.
Only the new version was released theatrically.  People complained about it and it bombed.  Later he put both versions on the DVD, and no one complained.  If they were planning to do a new version of Indiana Jones, they probably would have released it with the original, but maybe the lack of interest in ET made them realize that people just don't care about special editions (and that they would have opened themselves up to even more criticism about changing their movies).
Well that's obviously not true. The original was released in theaters, in the 80s. The changed version was the only one released for the anniversary, but who would honestly expect 2 versions of a film to be released in theaters at the same time? No theater would be able to affor to show both and so the "choice" would be lost on the public who would inevitibly get the version that they didn't want, which would flop and cause more money to be lost because more prints of the films had to be made in order to have two versions. . .
Action Jacktion

Professor
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« Reply #76 on: 09-20-2004 20:30 »

I don't know what you mean.  I didn't say that two versions should have been released theatrically at the same time.
Ranadok

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #77 on: 09-20-2004 21:46 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SlaytanicMaggot:Also, if everyone's so pissed at Lucas changing things so much, why didn't - and why isn't - anyone howling at Peter Jackson to not make the extended versions of the Lord of the Rings movies?
I can't speak for everyone else, but I don't have a problem with the extended editions of LOTR because they release both versions on DVD, made it known beforehand that both are going to be made, and Peter Jackson has said he considers the theatrical releases to be the official version. Of course, it doesn't hurt that the extra stuff in the EEs are good...

On the general subject, I never got a chance to see the originals in theater, but I saw the special editions when they came out (Of course, I was already a big fan by that point, thanks to VHS), and yes, I did like them. However, I much prefer the originals, and really don't like the message that Lucas seems to be sending with these new DVD changes , mainly that it is okay for him to write sloppy prequels, as he can change the originals to match the new continuity and declare it as his "original vision".  I won't be buying the DVDs, but I may rent them eventually.
VelourFog

Space Pope
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« Reply #78 on: 09-20-2004 22:23 »

No one objects to optional extended or special editions for the same reason that no one objects to "extra scenes" as bonus features on a DVD - because you still have the choice of the original. The extra stuff is just a bonus if you want it. No one is jamming walkie-talkies down your throat.
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #79 on: 09-20-2004 22:26 »
« Last Edit on: 09-20-2004 22:26 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SlaytanicMaggot:
Having been born in 1985, I guess I can't say I see the whole argument here. But I do want to know why the freaking Greedo thing is such a big fucking deal to everyone in the first place. I don't really see the deal why people care if Han shot first, but Lucas obviously felt it wasn't the character of Han Solo, and just decided to put in a few green beams. So fucking what?

Here's the controversy regarding "Greedo shoots first."  In the original film, Greedo didn't shoot at all.  This was to show that Han was basically a ruthless bastard smuggler, who ignored morals in order to survive.  Hence, there's the big "character revelation" when Han saves Luke at the end of SW - he finally cares about someone beside himself. 

In the SE, when Greedo shoots first, we loose all of Han's inner conflict.  Now, Han's merely defending himself and doesn't look like such a bad guy.  But, to the die-hards, Han is a pretty bad guy.  It softens up his character, in a negative sense.  Instead of a ruthless scumbag, he's just another good guy.  In Futurama terms, it'd be like if Greoning went back and removed the assholish nature of Bender.  He just wouldn't be fun anymore.
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