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Author Topic: She's the other one  (Read 2081 times)
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Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #80 on: 05-11-2005 00:38 »
« Last Edit on: 05-11-2005 00:38 »

The Nibblonians are nicer than the Vorlons.  I agree they didn't know about Fry's past nastification until it "happened" (until Fry knew it happened), then they put two and two together. 

The Nibblonians took Fry's life away, but they tried to make his future life decent.  They protected his building from the destruction of the alien saucers, they kept his bank account open and gathering interest, they even made sure his favorite brand of beer survived.  They weren't out to enslave him, just make sure he was available at the crucial time.

Whoo-hoo!  TOTPD!  *shimmy shimmy shimmy shimmy*
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #81 on: 05-11-2005 07:54 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
The Nibblonians are nicer than the Vorlons.

Much nicer.

 
Quote
I agree they didn't know about Fry's past nastification until it "happened" (until Fry knew it happened), then they put two and two together. 

The Nibblonians took Fry's life away, but they tried to make his future life decent.  They protected his building from the destruction of the alien saucers, they kept his bank account open and gathering interest, they even made sure his favorite brand of beer survived.  They weren't out to enslave him, just make sure he was available at the crucial time.

But why unfreeze him so early?  Another year or two on top of a thousand wouldn't have made much difference to Fry, but unfreezing him early would be a huge risk for the Nibblonians to take.  If something unfortunate had happened to Fry, all their planning would have been for nothing, and the Brainspawn would have destroyed the universe.  Simply trusting that he would be able to survive on his own until they needed him seems like a huge leap of faith for the Nibblonians to take, especially after not trusting Fry to make the decision to be frozen.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #82 on: 05-11-2005 08:36 »

Maybe they unfroze him early to give him a chance to get used to how things work (technology and the like) in the future. By the time he was needed in Why of Fry he had been in space enough times that he was fully comfortable there. Being in an alien spaceship and dealing with weird aliens in unusual circumstances is something he's used to now. Newly-unfrozen Fry would have been to busy either freaking or nerding out to be particulary useful.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #83 on: 05-11-2005 09:02 »

Maybe, but wouldn't it have been safer for him to have been unfrozen under Nibblonian supervision, so that they could insure his safety?  I mean, one of the first things he did after being unfrozen was walk into a suicide booth.  Where were the Nibblonians on that one?
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #84 on: 05-11-2005 09:31 »

I'm assuming Nibblonian prophecies are a lot like Buffy/Angel prophecies. Vague. Maybe they knew enough that he was meant to meet 'the other' at a certain timeframe but didn't know who 'the other' actually was so they couldn't just capture and hold her until the time came to use them. In order to understand why the Nibblonians did anything we would have to actually hear what the prophecy said, which may or may not happen depending on how valid the movie rumor is.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #85 on: 05-11-2005 15:02 »

What she said.  big grin
Harry Sach

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #86 on: 05-12-2005 00:15 »

He was also needed in The Day the Earth Stood Stupid, so maybe that's why he was unfrozen earlier.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #87 on: 05-12-2005 13:06 »
« Last Edit on: 05-12-2005 13:06 »

Yes, but why unfreeze him before "The Day the Earth Stood Stupid"?

Better question: Why weren't any Nibblonians around when Fry was unfrozen?  They went to all the trouble of freezing him (and presumably keeping the building he was in intact) and after all that they left him unprotected on a planet of psychotic apes.  If Fry is the only hope of saving the universe, you'd think that the Nibblonians' main concern would be keeping him alive.  How many times has Fry nearly been killed?  Even after Nibbler does show up, he dosn't seem all that concerned with Fry's safety.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #88 on: 05-12-2005 13:40 »

That may be where 'the other' comes in. If her role in the prophesy is to be his protector than the nibblonians really didn't have much to worry about. Or maybe the prophesy in specific enough to state that Fry fights and defeats the brain spawn. Now if their prophesys always come true than just the fact that it states that he fights and wins lets them now that he is destined to survive long enough to be used. Maybe their view on it is like the Professors view of being in the past at Roswell, namely that if it's destined to happen it will happen and you want to be careful not to change the course of events. And the Nibblonians are walking a fine line between how much intervention will fuck things up and how much is absolutely needed. Maybe just surviving in the future as he is teaches Fry skills that he will need when the Big Fight eventually comes.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #89 on: 05-12-2005 14:13 »

But again, if Nibbler had reason to believe that things were destined to happen that way, why would he be afraid that Fry wouldn't agree to be frozen?

It's a shame that "The Why of Fry" didn't handle time travel as well as "Roswell That Ends Well" did.  If it had, Nibbler would have known that Fry would survive on his own long enough to defeat the Brainspawn, because if Fry hadn't, he wouldn't have been able to travel back in time to 1999.  Nice and simple.  Instead, we got that "changing history" nonsense.  Meh.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #90 on: 05-12-2005 14:22 »

Because he might not have agreed to be frozen. We know that the falling into the crygenic tube was not an accident. Had Nibbler not been there it never would have happened. Fry wasn't destined to fall into the tube on his own he was destined to be pushed. Whether he agreed to it or not is not really relevent. They could have asked him and then if he refused erased his memory and froze him anyway, but why waste the time when he was going in that tube one way or another?
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #91 on: 05-12-2005 14:48 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
Because he might not have agreed to be frozen. We know that the falling into the crygenic tube was not an accident. Had Nibbler not been there it never would have happened. Fry wasn't destined to fall into the tube on his own he was destined to be pushed.

Nibbler didn't know any of that, though.  When Fry asks Nibbler why he didn't just ask him to be frozen, Nibbler says, "We were afraid you would refuse."

 
Quote
Whether he agreed to it or not is not really relevent.

It's relevant to Fry (or at least it would be if Nibbler hadn't erased his memory).

It's also relevant to the question of whether the Nibblonians are more or less good beings who actually care about Fry, or whether they're manipulative bastards who see him as a tool to be used and nothing more.

 
Quote
They could have asked him and then if he refused erased his memory and froze him anyway, but why waste the time when he was going in that tube one way or another?

Yes, if they were going to erase his memory and freeze him anyway if he refused, then there's no reason to bother asking him, because that wouldn't really be giving him a choice anyway.  That would merely be giving him the illusion of choice.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #92 on: 05-12-2005 15:12 »
« Last Edit on: 05-12-2005 15:12 »

Nibbler didnt know any of what? That Fry wouldn't fall in by accident? Again that goes back to just how detailed the prophesy was. It may very well have stated that someone needed to be there.

And not giving Fry a choice about being frozen doesn't mean they're manipulative bastards that don't care about him. Like Nibbler said 'What's one life against the entire universe?" If Fry refused and the nibblonians didn't force the issue then billions upon billions of people would be destroyed. They had to make decisions based on the greater good. They can care about Fry and still require him to save the universe. 
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #93 on: 05-12-2005 18:36 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
And not giving Fry a choice about being frozen doesn't mean they're manipulative bastards that don't care about him. Like Nibbler said 'What's one life against the entire universe?" If Fry refused and the nibblonians didn't force the issue then billions upon billions of people would be destroyed. They had to make decisions based on the greater good. They can care about Fry and still require him to save the universe.

You know, if scientists were allowed to abduct little kids off the street and conduct medical experiments on them, they could probably find cures for a lot of diseases.  What's a few lives against the millions that could be saved?  The idea of "the greater good" can be used as justification for all sorts of evil acts.  Where do you draw the line?

A life weighed against the entire universe is still a life.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #94 on: 05-12-2005 19:17 »

There's a big difference between physically torturing someone in order to help the greater good, and forcing them to give up a certain lifestyle hoping that when it comes down to it he'll make the right decision. They can remove him from his original life but they can't force to to save the world. By bringing him to the future and letting him grow to love the future (which may be a reason they thawed him out early) he'll be more willing to save the universe. But they can't force him to actually save the universe. They can try to influence him but they can't make the decision for him.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #95 on: 05-12-2005 19:59 »

Again, what Venus said.

You're breaking your head against the brick wall, David, which is the worst thing to do when dealing with prophesy.  It's not straightforward, it's a recursive process.  It's like being God - it requires a light touch. 

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
By letting him grow to love the future, he'll be more willing to save the universe...

Exactly!  When Nibbler says "We were afraid you would refuse," Fry's answer is "Of course not, I love the future!"  But he wouldn't have loved it if he hadn't been there for some time already.

David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #96 on: 05-12-2005 20:45 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
There's a big difference between physically torturing someone in order to help the greater good, and forcing them to give up a certain lifestyle hoping that when it comes down to it he'll make the right decision.

Yes, there's a big difference, but remember that Nibbler took Fry away from his family and friends (and his dog!) and everything that he ever loved in the past, and he can never get any of it back.  By the time he was unfrozen, everyone he ever knew was dead for almost a thousand years.

It's one thing for Fry to choose to sacrifice his past to save the future, but it's another thing for Nibbler to make that choice for him.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #97 on: 05-12-2005 20:59 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
When Nibbler says "We were afraid you would refuse," Fry's answer is "Of course not, I love the future!"  But he wouldn't have loved it if he hadn't been there for some time already.

Are you sure about that?

Bender: "You really wanna be friends with a robot?"

Fry: "Ever since I was six."
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #98 on: 05-12-2005 21:03 »

If asked he might very well have said yes, but the Nibblonians wouldn't have known that for sure.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #99 on: 05-12-2005 22:22 »

In fact, they'd have reason to think the chance of him saying yes vs. saying no was something like 5% to 95%.

And sorry, but if the choice was between moving one guy around in time and letting the entire universe be destroyed, I'd probably settle on the lesser of two evils myself.
Bishop of Fry

Crustacean
*
« Reply #100 on: 06-04-2005 12:18 »
« Last Edit on: 06-04-2005 12:18 »

We could speculate for years but the bottum line is Fry is the Savior of the Univerese and Leelala has some part (big or small) in the fate of the future.

My speculation on the subject:

Fry was to save the univerese from the brains and Leela and Fry were to become married.  the child will then have the power of The One and The Other.  The child will have a very powerful ansetry.  He get the nasty in the past-y and the mutanats.  Creating the most powerful and disturbing ruler ever.  He will avenge his fthers trone as the liquid ruler. Then Morbos planet will destroyOmnipersi 8 (or what ever).  both will die out i a great war. Earth and the nibloians will destory all hostile planets leaving a perfect universe.

So i think Fry and Leelas child will be the true savior of the fate of the future.


*WOW I AM SUCH A NERD*
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #101 on: 06-04-2005 12:39 »

But Leela already had a bunch of kids with Kif. They might be dropping in any time. Not sure she'd want more.
Krokei

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #102 on: 06-04-2005 12:53 »

yeah, but Amy is going to be their mother, not Leela. She'd probably want some of her own, with someone she acutally loved.

Congratulations, Bishop of Fry, but you still have quite a way to go before becoming the ultimate nerd. There are a lot of people here and elsewhere that could claim that title.
I

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #103 on: 06-04-2005 13:33 »

Bishop: Technically you are not so much of a nerd. A real nerd wouldn not dance around proclaiming that he is a nerd.

He would be more subtle; such as wearing a lab coat during english lessons in school; reading good fantasy books and write fics very much like them; see 42 episodes of futurama in a row... and so on.

...
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #104 on: 06-04-2005 19:04 »

Krokei: I don't think Leela would bail on her kids after her childhood. And there is at least one one-eyed one who will probably wonder why it looks a lot like "Aunt Leela".
Krokei

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #105 on: 06-04-2005 19:27 »

That's not my point. My point is that she wouldn't actually be their mother, Amy would. She might not even be close to the family, seeing as the kids do not come out of the swamp for, what was it, 20 years?

Amy certainly wouldn't be an intern at Planet Express then. And Leela and Fry would probably have moved on somewhere.
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #106 on: 06-04-2005 20:29 »

Not sure if Fry and Leela are destined to get married again. They already tried it once. Leela might not share your "Mayor's Aide" opinion about her kids. Besides she has a whole Blensball team there. And the whole thing about "The One" may not occur until they're Farnsworth's age.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #107 on: 06-04-2005 20:42 »

I'm sure Leela will have some part in her tadpoles' lives, but they did establish that Amy is and will be considered the real mom. Leela will probably be something like an aunt/godmother.
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #108 on: 06-04-2005 22:10 »

Or uncle/godfather, still don't think she could just check out on it. Then there's the legal system.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #109 on: 06-04-2005 23:03 »
« Last Edit on: 06-04-2005 23:03 »

Which legal system? In Kif's culture Amy is the legal mother.

And why would Leela, a woman be like a godfather or uncle?
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #110 on: 06-04-2005 23:47 »

You have a choice of legal systems, Kif's planet, Mars, or Earth since such things are usually under local juristictions. Even now just saying so holds little legal weight, God knows what a 1000 more year of law writing will cook up. Papers must be signed and fees paid. Don't know what Amy's parents would think about it either. The kids are no relation to them.

As the Simsmar Kif bore the young and Leela donated the DNA so it would be difficult to call Leela the godmother or aunt. Of course that was the role-reversal joke of the episode in the first place.
FutureDramaQeen

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #111 on: 10-28-2005 13:50 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Bishop of Fry:

My speculation on the subject:

Fry was to save the univerese from the brains and Leela and Fry were to become married.  the child will then have the power of The One and The Other.  The child will have a very powerful ansetry.  He get the nasty in the past-y and the mutanats.  Creating the most powerful and disturbing ruler ever.  He will avenge his fthers trone as the liquid ruler. Then Morbos planet will destroyOmnipersi 8 (or what ever).  both will die out i a great war. Earth and the nibloians will destory all hostile planets leaving a perfect universe.

So i think Fry and Leelas child will be the true savior of the fate of the future.


*WOW I AM SUCH A NERD*

This is something like what I think might happen with Fry and Leela's kid. It would have strong mutant genes and would lack the Delta brainwave.
Nibbler said at the end of TWOF 'We will' to Fry when he asked if Nibbler would need him again. But maybe Nibbler needs his super-powerful child to help save the universe in 3020.

I'm writing a fan-fic based on this.

I've put way too much thought in this.
KurtPikachu2001

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #112 on: 11-04-2005 14:44 »

Since the Nibbloians believe that Fry is the hope of the universe, maybe they think Leela is the other hope. i.e. How she tried to inform Fry about the brains so he could save everyone.  Also, another exmaple, in The Why Of Fry, Leela was probably the key to motivate Fry to save the world. 

I'm highly doubt that Fry and Leela are related! (chuckles).
Bender-Mon

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #113 on: 11-06-2005 20:48 »

Now if only Fry and Leela could finally get together, the hope of the universe could be stronger than ever!
hotrod zoidberg

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #114 on: 11-07-2005 03:11 »

i think "the other" comment will form at least a basis for the movie 
the one thing in the movie i dont want is time travel as it hurts my brain

also wouldnt leela be considered like a surragate mother ??
Rhodan

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #115 on: 11-08-2005 16:07 »
« Last Edit on: 11-08-2005 16:07 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Krokei: I don't think Leela would bail on her kids after her childhood. And there is at least one one-eyed one who will probably wonder why it looks a lot like "Aunt Leela".

Look at CGEF framegrabs - there´s actually A LOT of tadpoles from the spawn with one eye.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #116 on: 11-08-2005 18:28 »

Most of them probably won't survive though. Animals that have that many young at one time do so because most don't live. Remember that half of the predators that were attacking them came from the very water they were escaping to. Out of the fifty or so tadpoles they had they'll probably get back 4-6 of them.
PaulM

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #117 on: 11-09-2005 06:24 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Rhodan:
    Look at CGEF framegrabs - there´s actually A LOT of tadpoles from the spawn with one eye.

Having watched the episode recently, a lot of the kifpoles have Amy's klutzy traits as well.

SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #118 on: 11-09-2005 11:30 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by PaulM:
 Having watched the episode recently, a lot of the kifpoles have Amy's klutzy traits as well.

Klutz's with no depth perception?
A swamp-full of predators?
*Sigh*

They're doomed...  roll eyes

What? Me, cynical?  Naah...
asimov

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #119 on: 11-17-2005 08:27 »

thats one thing, in star wars, leah KISSED luke so very sexually, it haunts me to this day that they just forgot about it. ontopic id rekon by the other, they just mean the "helper", it was leela who stopped fry from stopping himself going back in time, thats how she helped i guess
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