Fry's love-getting old?

[on:]

So, I was just personally thinking this. It seems a bit overdone. And I really want Leela to do it some more!

[Reply #1 on:]

It's not Fry showing his love all the time that's annoying, it's Leela constantly rejecting him. He tries so hard and she's just a bitch.

[Reply #2 on:]

Blasphemy! Slander!   But seriously, Leela needs to be more pro-Fry, I think. One thing I do notice though, right off the bat, is that Fry & Leela are getting older, and they treat each year of their relationship like it's a month. Realistically, they'd be married by now. Just sayin...

[Reply #3 on:]

One of Fry's traits I find most annoying is when he's super overprotective of Leela. And I don't mean shielding her from giant bees, I mean more like what you see in A Farewell to Arms, and 95% of fanfictions. I feel like Fry should be able to trust Leela enough to know she isn't going to get herself killed with every remotely dangerous thing she does, and I realize rationality goes out the window when it comes to Fry and love, but I still don't buy it.

But to answer this question, yes, it does go overboard. Or at least, the scales are tipped too far in one direction. Leela needs to reciprocate more, or Fry needs to lay off a bit.

[Reply #4 on:]

I feel like Fry should be able to trust Leela enough to know she isn't going to get herself killed with every remotely dangerous thing she does

The only time he really calls Leela out on her (clearly) reckless behavior is in "The Sting"--and, in that case, I feel like his concern is both justified and articulated gently. He's not ordering Leela not to go on crazy space adventures anymore; rather, he's trying to make her see that she doesn't have to be so single-mindedly devoted to a cause that may get her killed, and is ultimately rather trivial (space honey? Who cares?).

Of course, his constant need to sacrifice himself for Leela is getting old, and it does kind of feel like a subtle reprimand of her on his part. Like, Fry doesn't trust Leela to get herself out of trouble, so he has to protect her from both herself, and the elements around her that are conspiring to get her killed. That's a kind of antiquated point of view that the itty-bitty feminist in me finds troubling--but, seeing as how Leela's saved Fry's life plenty of times, I'm okay with him occasionally saving her life.

In fact, I prefer when Leela saves Fry's life, if only because the show doesn't make such a big deal out of it. Take the way she saves him from falling to his death in "Xmas Story," for example; it's a pretty wonderful, fairly understated moment. Whenever Fry saves Leela's life, meanwhile, it has to be a Huge Fucking Deal. Take, for example, his super-heroic leap to shield her from (what he thinks is a) death ray in "Lrrreconcilable Ndndifferences": the over-the-top showmanship there does make me roll my eyes a bit, I must say. 

But to answer this question, yes, it does go overboard. Or at least, the scales are tipped too far in one direction. Leela needs to reciprocate more, or Fry needs to lay off a bit.

Agreed. Very well-said, sir.

[Reply #5 on:]

In fact, I prefer when Leela saves Fry's life, if only because the show doesn't make such a big deal out of it. Take the way she saves him from falling to his death in "Xmas Story," for example; it's a pretty wonderful, fairly understated moment. Whenever Fry saves Leela's life, meanwhile, it has to be a Huge Fucking Deal. Take, for example, his super-heroic leap to shield her from (what he thinks is a) death ray in "Lrrreconcilable Ndndifferences": the over-the-top showmanship there does make me roll my eyes a bit, I must say.  

To be fair, Leela would be entitled "to make a big deal out of it" when her savings come at the same price as Fry's. Fry's rescues mostly demand a personal sacrifice (TDHAIP, Sting, etc..), while Leelas rescues are often mere "Skill displays". That's plotwise often not really Leela doing it for Fry..it's something the writers often do for Leela herself, to cheer her up/put her on a pedestal, to grant her a big moment without any cost.*
Should Leela save Fry at a great personal sacrifice, to end up as the loser, beaten, ridiculed, with all the punishment inflicted on her....then a big deal, some "awwww..the poor girl" scene is more applicable.

*But certainly not in X-Mas story. I like the balance on this one, but for another reason.

You might remember I stated before that there is often not a big difference wether a character acts deliberately, or is "thrown into a certain plot situation".
Fry bought the parrot, which endangered him,  but that parrot turned out the key to save Fry and Leela in the end.  While Leela performed a direct action by grapping Fry, Fry's parrot purchase was an indirect way to save their life.
Yet, when it came to plot devices, that parrot was used in nearly the same way as if Fry had actively saved Leelas life. (Therefore granting the "Plot Situation" de facto nearly "Deliberate action" quality.)
Therefore, an underlying Christmas fitting theme of "One good turn deserves another" could be incorporated in that episode.

(I had that example in mind for quite a while, and always wanted to write it down on a proper opportunity. Gorky, thanks for delivering this opportunity )

[Reply #6 on:]

The way I've alwayd thought of it is, Leela saves the day with her brain, while Fry saves the day with his heart. And in the case of The Sting, I give that a pass because Fry's also concerned with saving his own ass, as he's been put in just as much danger as she has. It's when Leela's in some kind of peril (and most of the time it isn't even that severe) and Fry's in no danger, but he's super whiny concerned, that's when I roll my eyes.

Yes, I prefer idiot frat boy Fry to romantic Fry.

[Reply #7 on:]

Yes, it is indeed overdone in my view. I mean, it can lead to some good plots and it has already, but in the recent seasons, it seems more like a soap opera than good old Futurama. I'd prefer it if they gave it a rest.

[Reply #8 on:]

No it doesn't get old for me, because I think it's consistent with how unattainable Leela was for Fry for a long, long time. Not to say that relationships don't change over time. But I love Fry for being such a loving, kindhearted sap. He is my favorite character. And I wonder if my mom is right when she says the proper way of a (heterosexual) relationship is when the man loves the woman more than she does him. That sounds really awful and sexist when I see it in print, but I guess having grown up seeing my my dad abuse and mistreat my mom (she's been remarried for 20 years now), I have a different view, I guess.

But wouldn't it be interesting to see an ep where the tables are turned and Leela is the one who's clingy and a touch insecure, and wanting Fry to pay attn to her? (Maybe that would get some anti-Leela shippers off her case somewhat!).

[Reply #9 on:]

No it doesn't get old for me, because I think it's consistent with how unattainable Leela was for Fry for a long, long time. Not to say that relationships don't change over time. But I love Fry for being such a loving, kindhearted sap. He is my favorite character.

But wouldn't it be interesting to see an ep where the tables are turned and Leela is the one who's clingy and a touch insecure, and wanting Fry to pay attn to her? (Maybe that would get some anti-Leela shippers off her case somewhat!).

Quote for emphasis. Thankyou. 

[Reply #10 on:]

But wouldn't it be interesting to see an ep where the tables are turned and Leela is the one who's clingy and a touch insecure, and wanting Fry to pay attn to her? (Maybe that would get some anti-Leela shippers off her case somewhat!).

Eh, not really, for me. There are lots of TV cliches I'd like to see get the futurama treatment, but "oh, wouldn't it be funny if all the characters were their opposites?" isn't one of them.

[Reply #11 on:]

Fry and Leela just don't belong together.

* futurefreak runs away from the burning flames and pitchforks

[Reply #12 on:]

Fry and Leela just don't belong together.

Mob: Blasphemy! Get her! Burn her!

Eh, not really, for me. There are lots of TV cliches I'd like to see get the futurama treatment, but "oh, wouldn't it be funny if all the characters were their opposites?" isn't one of them.

Mr Shnrub, I just speak from experience. Back in my single days, there were several times when a man was frothing at the mouth to get to me, and made so many declarations of his passion and amorous longings. And then. When I would relent and we'd finally get together, the devotion would just peter out on his part. And then I'd be the ravenously clingy one.

I think it's not so much of a TV cliche as it is just a facet of basic human nature. Many people love the chase more than anything, and when they finally get the object of their desire, they lose interest.

Not to say that I'd want that to happen with Fry and Leela, but I do think Fry losing some of his "heat" wouldn't be all that implausible of a scenario, especially considering that he's rather immature.

[Reply #13 on:]

The last relationship I was in actually mirrored the Fry-Leela dynamic - where he tried relentlessly to pursue me until I eventually gave in, but I still for the most part just saw him as a friend/buddy that I'd (rarely) get physical with. The outcome turned out pretty bad for him, which is why I am telling you all - those two do not work together lol. Either the spark is there or it isn't. You can't build love outta desperation

And with that, futurefreak becomes hated by half of the board...

[Reply #14 on:]

The last relationship I was in actually mirrored the Fry-Leela dynamic - where he tried relentlessly to pursue me until I eventually gave in, but I still for the most part just saw him as a friend/buddy that I'd (rarely) get physical with. The outcome turned out pretty bad for him, which is why I am telling you all - those two do not work together lol. Either the spark is there or it isn't. You can't build love outta desperation

And with that, futurefreak becomes hated by half of the board...

I can agree and disagree with you on some points. No one should ever try to build a relationship out of desperation, but of course at the same time I really can't agree with you with the Leela & Fry not a match. Leela did in fact have some kind of attraction to Fry for many years due to his boyish charm but at the same time kept him at arms length due to his random immaturity and the fact that she's had her own heart broken in the past. Of course, we're forced to look at the writer's point of view where they kept hitting the reset button after most episodes & seasons, more or less trying to milk out the Fry trying to win Leela's heart to keep fans interested as well. I have no doubt that Fry & Leela are a match because all I have to look at is their parallel selves from the alternate universe and how happy they were in A Farnsworth Parabox. Both Fry and Leela had the same personalities, just different appearances and the fact that their decisions differed by the flip of a coin. I stand by sparkybarky's Reply #8 comment all the way. 

[Reply #15 on:]

Nah, not at all. At least, not in my part, but then again I am reasonable when it comes to the romance between two fictional people who are, oh yea, also animated. Don't know about the others....

I see your point and I would agree but. Fry and Leela really have chemistry. On paper, Fry seems like he's all wrong--dimwitted, immature, "loser", etc--for Leela but they just seem to have this physical and emotional spark, and not to mention a solid foundation of a long friendship.

IRL, would they work? Maybe not. The realities of everyday life start to trump the pretty, lust-driven days of courtship. If they were real people, Leela might get so fed up with Fry's lack of responsibility and ambition, and Fry might come to see her as a nagging, domineering harpy.

[Reply #16 on:]

The "Fry chasing after Leela" was done in a rather conquest like way, in a "the greatest bitch finally giving in to be treated as some major achievement by the hero".
(With undertones of Leela denying her feelings for Fry, adding some "God...she's even dumber than Fry regarding that matter" vibe towards the audience).

Of course, this is a theme rather to be explored in movies. The female character has to lay off the bitchy behaviour for just the movie's last three "happy end minutes", the audience expects some "happily ever after", credits roll, the characters fullfilled their entertainment purpose..that's it. The female character does not have to fully revert to the "nice, tender, loving girl" type for too long....just for a few minutes, and the character gets away with that.

Yet in Futurama, Leela will STILL be needed after this "conquest". So, some of the early "bitchy" characteristics will have to remain (for a character cannot change completely during a episodic show).

[Reply #17 on:]

There's also the fact that they have been able to tolerate each others company for 10+ years, even in a work environment.  They also spend time together outside of work.  They may be opposites, and not have as much spark anymore (if they ever had it) but they are definitely compatible.

So no, it's not getting old for me.  In fact, it's just starting to get interesting.  The carrot dangling is going away in favor of new territory.

[Reply #18 on:]

Lemme clarify: I used to be a hardcore shipper during old Futurama, specifically when I rewatch episodes like Parasites Lost, The Sting, and The Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings. The only one that really tugged at me shipstrings past the movies (Bender's Big Score was amazing for this) was The Late Philip J. Fry.

I think, at least from an animated series standpoint, the writers could seemingly make the ship work for the viewers; however the way they have approached it post BBS (with a few exceptions like TLPJF) has really turned me off greatly towards it. Fry's no longer the seemingly naive (though not really based on the last movie) dimwitted monkey (hehe) that you want to root for. To me, he's just the typical 20 something guy who wants to get with any tail he can (The Beast with a Billion Backs anyone?). So when the writers make a conscious effort to go back and forth between Fry being devoted to Leela and Fry hooking up with whoever he can, it just makes me not want to follow the writers' leads and not take the ship seriously anymore.

Now, on the other hand, I thought it was great when Fry and Amy hooked up in Put Your Head on my Shoulder. We got to see a little jealous side of Leela which helped propogate the ship a little bit, and we also got to see Fry have some self-respect and not wait around for Leela. As in, he wants to be with her, she refuses, so he tries something else. Contrast this with the end of BBS, when they both (I think) see each other in a whole new light and would perhaps want to consider seeing each other - followed right up with him dating Collene in TBWABB. What happened in between those two movies to cause such a junction? I thought the plot worked for the movie don't get me wrong, that was hilarious what occurred. But for the course of the ship...eh? It just tells me even more that these two should not be together because Fry is constantly having to overcompensate his neglect from Leela by going for other women, and Leela obviously doesn't care enough otherwise she would have realized her mistake when he first went out with Amy.

I can't believe I just spent 20 minutes writing about shippyness. I hate you all Nah I'm kidding, you're all alright. Good discussion!

[Reply #19 on:]

I stand by sparkybarky's Reply #8 comment all the way. 

Hooray! My opinion is validated!

[Reply #20 on:]

Randi, as a HUGE shipper myself, this is why I have trouble believing BWABB to be true cannon. (among other reasons)

If you watch everything in order, omitting BWABB, it really works much better.
You go from the Devils Hands are Idle playthings, to Benders Big Score, and then Benders Game (eh..they don't really have a chance for shipping in that one...) and then Into the Wild Green Yonder, and right into Rebirth. If you watch it that way, it's almost a normal relationship! lol
Last season was confusing and frustrating, but they seem to be redeeming themselves this season, at least a little bit.

It's been a bumpy ride for sure, but I'll never give up. I'm going down with this ship, dammit!

EDIT: Serious LOL at the results of this poll. Gotta love my fellow PEELers

[Reply #21 on:]

Haha, does it work like that? You can just remove episodes you didn't like and pretend they don't exist? I think if that was the case, Gorky would've blacked out Ghost in the Machines long ago.

[Reply #22 on:]

If that's true I choose to exclude all but one episode of this season. That's...not good. At all.

[Reply #23 on:]

Leela saves the day with her brain, while Fry saves the day with his heart.

This.

Also, Fry can keep saving the day cause that's what he does, however unorthodox his method. Leela can save the day some more, but it really shouldn't have as much bravado as Fry as she isn't as impulsive as Fry - she would think about it, wheras Fry jumps right in! Also Fry doesn't just save Leela, he'd do it for anyone - Leela just keeps getting in danger xD

[Reply #24 on:]

After seeing that kiss in the ep "Fun on a Bun", no, I'm not tired of it. Not anymore.

[Reply #25 on:]

Please don't argue with my logic.

[Reply #26 on:]

Please argue with my logic.

[Reply #27 on:]

cannon

Canon, dear. That's probably why they named the camera company Canon, now that I consider it. Something that is canon is considered by experts to be true.

Also, I think it's definitely time for Leela to make her own grand gesture to demonstrate how she feels about Fry.

[Reply #28 on:]

Something deeper than merely performing the Chicken Dance for him, I presume?

[Reply #29 on:]

...I know we've had this discussion in the shipper's thread...so...why are we talking about it here?

[Reply #30 on:]

We need a reason to be posting shippy stuff? 

[Reply #31 on:]

We needed a new thread for that? The Shipper's Thread is at the second thing you see when you open the board, in BOLD LETTERING.

* Spacedal11 thinks that while there isn't much to be said here other than Fry thinks with his heart and Leela thinks with her brain, there is something to be said about how the concept of sacrifice and death is well...dead in the Futurama universe since someone "dies" nearly every episode and they act like it's the real thing (kind of ruining the beauty found in The Sting).

[Reply #32 on:]

Canon, dear. That's probably why they named the camera company Canon, now that I consider it. Something that is canon is considered by experts to be true.

I think "authoritative" would be a more accurate adjective, rather than "true."

Interesting observation, though.

[Reply #33 on:]

Honestly, they dont cling very well. Fry is a low down coward who drinks one too many,and leela is a self-less underated karate master who gives sexcist jerks wats comming for em'.
Ok i can understand why theese too complete eachother, but for me fry and amy should be dating instead.

[Reply #34 on:]

Honestly, they dont cling very well. Fry is a low down coward who drinks one too many,and leela is a self-less underated karate master who gives sexcist jerks wats comming for em'.

Well..Leela is not really self-less. E.g. on Sting
- Going on a mission on a mere "Wishing to proove to herself" basis, ignoring several warnings.
- Immediatelly willing to  leave one behind (Bender, no effort made to actively help him to get onto the ship).
- When Fry was mortally wounded, it was rather about Leela's "personal feelings".
(When being court martialed, an officer usually faces punishment for the damage inflicted on the crew. His/her personal injuries are usually his/her private affair).

To cut a long story short: Leela is very often on a "I I I ME ME ME NOW NOW NOW!!!" basis.

Also, about the cowardice: Fry's rescues usually come a a personal cost/sacrifice (upon nearly certain death). That character willingly entered those situations. While Leela's actions are rather a mere skill display, usually without any consequences for her. So, her rescues usually do not REALLY bear a courage theme.

[Reply #35 on:]

 
it doesnt change the fact that amy and fry should still be dating

[Reply #36 on:]

I'm a bit tired of it, it's been done to death. I'd like just for Fry to forget about Leela because she's not worth it. Maybe then Leela would realise, or not...

[Reply #37 on:]

it doesnt change the fact that amy and fry should still be dating

How did you come to that conclusion?

[Reply #38 on:]

Yes, I am interested to know when the Association of People Who Are Always Right officially designated opinion as fact.

[Reply #39 on:]

Yes, I am interested to know when the Association of People Who Are Always Right officially designated opinion as fact.

Didn't they change their name to Federal Association of Great Smartminds?