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Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #80 on: 07-11-2011 04:09 »
« Last Edit on: 07-11-2011 04:10 »

watching their relationship develop and how it makes them change as people might be my favorite part of the whole show.

That is such a great point (and you said you'd have nothing to contribute! wink). Fry in particular really only became a truly sympathetic and complex character to me in season three, when he started trying to woo Leela (and when the writers decided to explore his life in the twentieth century in episodes like Fryrish and "Jurassic Bark"). There had been flashes of the selfless, adorably bumbling person Fry was capable of being in seasons one and two--episodes like "Xmas Story" and "A Bicyclops Built for Two" are good examples--but it's not until the third season that Fry stops being a lazy dumbass and starts being a sweet-hearted lazy dumbass.
SonicPanther

Professor
*
« Reply #81 on: 07-11-2011 04:24 »

I completely agree. Fry is my favorite character, and I've loved him since the beginning, but he became the character that I really see him as around the time he started going after Leela. Even his portrayal in Xmas Story, when the shippiness was little more than just a passing idea of a plot point, was related to development in his relationship with her. It's one of the driving forces behind his character, and the more he falls in love with her, the more I like him, even when Leela's not around.

Leela's development around that time makes her interesting for me also. I feel like the further the series goes on, she struggles with her idea of how she wants her perfect life to be and what is really best for her. She constantly dates douchebags because they're "good catches", because she thinks that's what she deserves, and I think she had feelings for Fry for longer than she let on but wouldn't admit to it because he didn't fit that standard. It's interesting to see how she fluctuates between wanting to be with a man she truly has feelings for and telling herself that she shouldn't because he doesn't fit the standards she thinks she should shoot for, even if the people she finds who fit that criteria don't make her happy. I wonder why she felt she had to have such high standards.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #82 on: 07-11-2011 04:39 »

What I love about "Xmas Story," in terms of what it does for the ship, is that moment where Leela says to Fry, "You're lonely, and I'm lonely--but together, we're lonely together." A similar point is made back in the pilot, when Fry claims that Leela couldn't possibly understand his loneliness, only to realize that she actually does. I like the idea of a relationship based on a mutual loneliness (bizarre as that sounds), and it makes complete sense that Fry would come to love a woman who has dealt with the same feelings of not belonging and wondering where in the universe you could possibly fit that he has.

As far as Leela's high standards go: "The Cyber House Rules" makes a point of how Leela never fit in as a kid, and still hasn't outgrown being an eyeball oddball; dating the most conventional (and, of course, successful) man imaginable makes sense when you put it in that context. Leela has only ever desired normalcy. Fry, meanwhile, appreciates the abnormal--and, in that way, the two characters complement each other because of this.
SonicPanther

Professor
*
« Reply #83 on: 07-11-2011 04:59 »

I see what you mean about a relationship built on mutual lonliness. What I think especially like about that in Xmas Story was Fry's reaction to upsetting Leela - he says that he may miss his family, but she never even had a family. Even though he feels the same loneliness she does, he's still apologetic and admits things could be worse, and after realizing this he tries hard to make her feel happy. That was a big step up from his not ill intentioned but usually crass and self-indulgent actions in the earlier episodes. He's often still like that now, yes, but before this he was (as pointed out) not his selfless, adorably bumbling self. I feel like Xmas Story was a turning point for both their relationship and Fry's character in this regard.
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #84 on: 07-11-2011 05:08 »

I totally agree that the development of their relationship has led to further development of and deeper insight into their characters. Watching Leela deal with her conflicting opinions regarding Fry - on one hand, he's selfless, appreciative, and sweet, but on the other he's quite far from "normal" - has been nothing but enjoyable. "The Why of Fry" is the best example of this that I can come up with; it really illustrates how she might derive temporary satisfaction from dating men like Chaz who are successful and normal and apparently respected by society (and who turn out to be total assholes) but Fry's the one who can actually make her happy. Cue that scene where he steps into the hole in the photo. I know that there are a lot of people who just want their relationship to be defined once and for all, but I think there's a lot more material that can be made from this conflict.

Fry definitely became more thoughtful and empathetic as their relationship developed. I think that this is also when his selflessness really came into play. For example, in Parasites Lost he's the one who decides to get rid of the worms because he wants Leela to love him for who he is. He could have just kept them and gotten the girl, but he wanted to do it right, at least partly because he cared about her, too. Call that whatever you will, but self-indulgent it is not.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #85 on: 07-11-2011 17:11 »

"The Why of Fry" was one of the first episodes of Futurama I ever saw (post-cancellation, when Fox was still for some reason airing reruns on Sunday nights), and it may very well explain why I am such an ardent shipper. That episode just gets everything right in terms of Fry and Leela and what they mean to each other (Fry gives up his life in the twentieth century to save Leela; Leela is not just some cold person who can only be won over by grand gestures (moving the stars, writing an opera), but can appreciate Fry's simple offering of a flower), and I love it. I also agree with what you're saying about Leela's feelings for Chaz (and men like him) versus her feelings for Fry, spira--very well-put.

That said...

I know that there are a lot of people who just want their relationship to be defined once and for all, but I think there's a lot more material that can be made from this conflict.

I agree with this, but I also think that the writers kind of showed their hand too early with Leela's "I love you" in Wild Green Yonder. Seeing Leela grapple with her feelings in seasons three and four was interesting because we were waiting to see if she would finally realize that, hey, she loved Fry same as he loved her. But now that Leela has admitted to her feelings, some of the conflict there is gone.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised if "Overclockwise" dealt with Leela's lingering doubts about whether or not Fry is the right person for her to be with. You don't spend your adult life in search of a certain kind of man (successful, intelligent, mature) only to "settle" for a dumdum like Fry without having some internal conflict about that decision.
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #86 on: 07-11-2011 17:37 »

I like that you mentioned the flower because that brings up another difference between Fry and guys like Chaz that characterizes Leela. In the end, she'd forgotten about all the grand but ultimately conceited things Chaz had done throughout the episode and been actually grateful to see Fry and his flower.

I also think that the writers kind of showed their hand too early with Leela's "I love you" in Wild Green Yonder.

At the time it came out, Wild Green Yonder was allegedly the end of the series, yes? So I can grant them a pardon there for perhaps rushing into things, though I do agree that some of the backpedaling we've seen in Season 6 has been a little awkward and confusing. But I think there's still enough conflict there to form a really interesting series of developments. Telling a guy "I love you" doesn't magically whisk away any doubts about him, and Fry is still very much a lazy idiot (though I would argue he's matured a noticeable amount since season 1).

I am extremely looking forward to Overclockwise. I wouldn't mind getting some sort of ultimatum on their relationship as long as it was done in an excellent way, and I think that episode is going to either attempt to do that or else provide some other sort of angle on the lingering doubts that characterize their current, fluctuating relationship.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #87 on: 07-11-2011 18:34 »

At the time it came out, Wild Green Yonder was allegedly the end of the series, yes? So I can grant them a pardon there for perhaps rushing into things, though I do agree that some of the backpedaling we've seen in Season 6 has been a little awkward and confusing. But I think there's still enough conflict there to form a really interesting series of developments. Telling a guy "I love you" doesn't magically whisk away any doubts about him, and Fry is still very much a lazy idiot (though I would argue he's matured a noticeable amount since season 1).

Oh, I agree. I just think that they wrote themselves into a bit of a corner with the ILY, because it is arguably the emotional climax of the Fry/Leela will-they-or-won't-they relationship arc--but the way the writers are handling the aftermath (or denouement, I guess, in-keeping with the pretentious literary terminology) has been hit-or-miss. Obviously Leela saying she loves Fry would not put all those niggling doubts of hers to rest , but it would conceivably lead to some kind of relationship between the two of them; the writers being so wishy-washy about said relationship is what occasionally bothers me.

But you're right that Wild Green Yonder was the possible series finale, and that explains why we get a degree of closure with Fry and Leela's relationship. I'm glad that the writers chose to end it like they did, because it would have been a fitting ending to the show had it not been renewed for another season. Both could-be series finales have been executed beautifully (and, both times, Fry and Leela's relationship is addressed with a degree of finality; Devil's Hands ends on a more ambiguous note than Wild Green Yonder, but they both take a step forward in terms of where their relationship stands), which is why I have such high hopes for "Overclockwise." I guess I'm just hoping that this is the finale whose ramifications actually, you know, stick.
leiapadme77

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #88 on: 07-12-2011 05:59 »

*sigh* Leia stumbles into the shipper thread...
I stopped thinking about this cause I was getting obsessed and mostly depressed and angry with the way MG handles it. haha

I want them to be together sooo bad! But just making them a couple would be too simple, that's not what makes it interesting to watch. Some of my favourites with them are:
Parasites Lost
A Flight to Remember
Time Keeps On Slipping
The Sting
The Farnsworth Parabox
The Devil's Hands are Idle Playthings
Bender's Big Score
Into the Wild Green Yonder
Rebirth
The Late Phillip J Fry
Prisoner of Benda
I actually really liked the way they handled their relationship in the first half of this season--the one that aired last summer. Sure, it wasn't extremely in your face, but it definitely developed a little bit. I'm really hoping for some good episodes this season. This time though, I haven't looked at the lists, or read the synopsis' of any of them, because I wanted to be completely surprised each time I watched a new episode and not already have a preconceived opinion about it. So I don't really know what to expect the rest of this season, but I hope there is something to chew on.

DannyJC13

Space Pope
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« Reply #89 on: 07-12-2011 17:17 »

I personally do not want Fry and Leela to get together because:

It has happened like 100's of times. Give up.
I prefer Fry when he his single, being with Leela may mess up his personality. (Lars)
Same thing with Leela.
SonicPanther

Professor
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« Reply #90 on: 07-12-2011 18:32 »

Fry and Leela have gotten together 100s of times? I must have not been paying attention.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #91 on: 07-12-2011 18:43 »

That's practically twice per episode, minimum! eek
leiapadme77

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #92 on: 07-12-2011 18:49 »

That's practically twice per episode, minimum! eek

Lol, yes.

And Danny, that's not true. They can be together and still be themselves. It's because we haven't really had a chance to explore such things yet.
DannyJC13

Space Pope
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« Reply #93 on: 07-12-2011 18:54 »

By 100's, I mean I'm exaggerating.... roll eyes
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #94 on: 07-12-2011 19:01 »

We've told you millions of times not to do that!
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #95 on: 07-12-2011 20:04 »

That's practically twice per episode, minimum! eek

Hahaha!

I disagree that being together would "mess up" their respective personalities.
DannyJC13

Space Pope
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« Reply #96 on: 07-12-2011 20:04 »

We've told you millions of times not to do that!

This is the first... roll eyes
lilkitten29

Starship Captain
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« Reply #97 on: 07-12-2011 20:52 »

I want them to get together too!!!
I just hope that there will be some cute shippy moments between Fry and Leela in some of the upcoming episodes (besides Overclockwise).
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #98 on: 07-12-2011 21:00 »

I prefer Fry when he his single, being with Leela may mess up his personality. (Lars)

Say what? Lars's personality wasn't some odd mutation (or mess-up) of Fry's original personality, and it was certainly not the result of Lars dating Leela (or even deliberately attempting to be the kind of man she wanted). Lars was Fry, only a more mature version of Fry, and this maturation was a direct result of things that Fry experienced in the 21st century, entirely independent of his relationship with Leela.

And I don't think Fry's personality has been destroyed now, when he and Leela are an almost-but-not-quite couple. He's changed, maybe, but only in a subtle way. He's got a bit of the beleaguered boyfriend attitude going on, in episodes like "The Prisoner of Benda" (where he's griping to Hermes about how Leela's all crotchety at him) and "The Mutants Are Revolting" (the way he sighs frustratedly when Leela shushes him after he asks if she's going to finish her roll always makes me laugh). Overall, though, he's still a bumbling, sweet goofbag and whatnot.
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #99 on: 07-12-2011 21:17 »

I think his relationship with Leela has only served to deepen Fry's character, in a good way. It's through the development of that relationship that we got to see increasingly more of his sweet, caring side. He's still the same ol' impulsive lazy-ass whenever any episode isn't being shippy, but we know that his character is more than simply an impulsive lazy-ass.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #100 on: 07-13-2011 02:42 »

This is the first... roll eyes

Actually, we've never told you that. Not even now. shifty
leiapadme77

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #101 on: 07-16-2011 07:26 »

I think his relationship with Leela has only served to deepen Fry's character, in a good way. It's through the development of that relationship that we got to see increasingly more of his sweet, caring side. He's still the same ol' impulsive lazy-ass whenever any episode isn't being shippy, but we know that his character is more than simply an impulsive lazy-ass.

I totally agree! I really enjoy seeing Fry when he's around Leela. I feel like that's the REAL him. I mean, it's funny to watch him be stupid, but some episodes they make him so dumb I just feel like that's so not who his character is, and he's so much more worthy.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #102 on: 07-16-2011 12:27 »

On the Fry-being-stupid front, I did enjoy that he was competent at something that, at best, was only tangentially related to Leela (after all, she did say she liked a man in uniform) in "Law and Oracle." A similar thing happens in Wild Green Yonder, where he's doing a good job of trying to help Leela without turning it into something that's solely about impressing her or making her love him or whatever. It's not that he has to be actively pursuing Leela or anything to be the best version of himself; it's just that the shippy episodes tend to show Fry doing really selfless and wonderful and emotionally intelligent things. So I guess what I'm saying is that I like when Fry's competence bleeds into non-shippy episodes, because it means he's not being a punching bag for once and is in fact doing something proactive and productive.

Also: Though it was not a shippy episode by any means, one of my favorite moments from "The Silence of the Clamps" was Fry falling over in his chair and Leela stepping over him to grab the box the Professor was holding. She just did it so casually, as if Fry has fallen backwards in his chair plenty of times, and it made me smile. It wasn't an overtly shippy moment--or, hell, even a covertly shippy moment--but it was nice to find a bit of Fry/Leela goodness in an episode that mainly focused on other characters.
DannyJC13

Space Pope
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« Reply #103 on: 07-16-2011 16:35 »

Also: Though it was not a shippy episode by any means, one of my favorite moments from "The Silence of the Clamps" was Fry falling over in his chair and Leela stepping over him to grab the box the Professor was holding. She just did it so casually, as if Fry has fallen backwards in his chair plenty of times, and it made me smile. It wasn't an overtly shippy moment--or, hell, even a covertly shippy moment--but it was nice to find a bit of Fry/Leela goodness in an episode that mainly focused on other characters.

I think you're looking way too much into this, I think anyone would have stepped over him, I mean, who ever helps Fry? It happens rarely.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #104 on: 07-16-2011 19:33 »

I know that it obviously wasn't intended to be a shippy moment, but I can still enjoy watching Fry and Leela interact. I thought it was a cute, funny moment. Hell, it's one of the few moments in the episode that I found amusing. Don't take that away from me, man!
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #105 on: 07-16-2011 22:30 »
« Last Edit on: 07-16-2011 22:34 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

Personally I think Fry and Amy make a LOT more sense as a couple, then do Fry/Amy or Kif/Amy.  But since Fry and Leela are supposed to be soulmates (somehow) I want them to get together.  Mainly because I am so sick of the highly erratic treatment the relationship gets.  One day Leela sees herself in a parallel universe, happily married to that universe's Fry, and then they are back being friends again.  Then they finally say they love eachother.... then they are back being friends again.  Then Fry travels through several universes to see her again... then they are being friends again.

Seriously.  I just want them to make a choice and stick to it.  I mean they made the slutty but sweet doctor party girl hook up with the effeminate frog thing, how hard can it be to make Fry and Leela work?

But personally though, I think if they fleshed out Amy's character (have her come on more missions, bond with Fry some more, get involved in more outer space adventures), it would become pretty obvious why her and Fry make more sense as a couple.  They have much more in common, gel together better, and Amy isn't constantly turning down Fry to date complete assholes/losers.    They're both ditzy, but are the most genuinely caring characters in the show. 

I'd also like them to add a major gay character or two.  I mean besides that blonde guy whose just about every gay stereotype ever.
DannyJC13

Space Pope
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« Reply #106 on: 07-16-2011 23:06 »

Amy can't go with Fry, she's got Kiffy. love
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #107 on: 07-16-2011 23:46 »

Eh, they already tried Amy and Fry as a couple in "Put Your Head on My Shoulder," and it didn't work. Granted, this was back in season two, when Fry was a bit more selfish and horndog-ish than he was in later seasons; his reason for breaking up with Amy is petty and immature. That said, the end of the episode plays as a bit of a ship tease for Fry and Leela--and that seems more natural to me than Fry and Amy's relationship in the preceding twenty-two minutes.

Leela and Fry should be together because they challenge each other in many ways, and have grown so much as individuals because of their friendship and quasi-romance. Amy and Fry may have similar temperaments and personalities, but I don't think that automatically makes them a better or more compelling couple. That said, you're right that Amy is a kind, caring person--I just think she and Kif are a better match than she and Fry, possibly because it's cool to see Amy dating someone who's not her type (bad boy with, like, arson-related tattoos) and being genuinely happy and maturing as a result of that relationship.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #108 on: 07-17-2011 00:03 »

Eh, they already tried Amy and Fry as a couple in "Put Your Head on My Shoulder," and it didn't work. Granted, this was back in season two, when Fry was a bit more selfish and horndog-ish than he was in later seasons; his reason for breaking up with Amy is petty and immature. That said, the end of the episode plays as a bit of a ship tease for Fry and Leela--and that seems more natural to me than Fry and Amy's relationship in the preceding twenty-two minutes.

Leela and Fry should be together because they challenge each other in many ways, and have grown so much as individuals because of their friendship and quasi-romance. Amy and Fry may have similar temperaments and personalities, but I don't think that automatically makes them a better or more compelling couple. That said, you're right that Amy is a kind, caring person--I just think she and Kif are a better match than she and Fry, possibly because it's cool to see Amy dating someone who's not her type (bad boy with, like, arson-related tattoos) and being genuinely happy and maturing as a result of that relationship.

Maybe... but Fry has Michelle as his on-again off again girlfriend.  She cheats on him on a regular basis, thinks of Fry as her property rather then her boyfriend, and genrally treats him like dirt.  If he can give a harpy like Michelle a second chance, he can certainly give Amy one.  I mean maybe Fry and Leela are the better couple, but on the other hand, I can see Amy and Fry working out better because... they actually gel together, rather then Fry having to do some grand scheme for Leela like moving the stars themselves, nearly kill himself saving her life on Valentine's day, having to go through several universes and billions of years to find her, and still being on her permanent maybe pile.    Wheras I am sure if he asked Amy out for a drink and dancing tomorrow, she would probably say yes if she was single, and they'd probably have a really nice time.

I mean the only reason Amy and Fry didn't work out is because... they had to make Fry an extremely out of character asshole because they had no other reason for them to break up.  I felt they kind of wrote themselves into a corner with that one.
SonicPanther

Professor
*
« Reply #109 on: 07-17-2011 02:24 »

 It's been a while since Fry gave Michelle that second chance, and I don't think he would now.

He and Amy are similar and I'm sure she would be more receptive to him than Leela tends to be if he decided to take another shot at her, but they wouldn't be together long. They're really too similar to work, I think. They wouldn't really get anything out of the relationship in the long term because, like Gorky said about Fry and Leela, they don't challenge each other. To have a successful relationship you don't have to be opposites, but you have to be different enough that your partner makes you  but make you realize things about yourself that you previously didn't (for better or for worse). Leela made Fry more driven and selfless, and Fry can make Leela more impulsive and open. Fry and Amy just can't have a dynamic like that.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #110 on: 07-17-2011 02:37 »
« Last Edit on: 07-17-2011 02:39 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

It's been a while since Fry gave Michelle that second chance, and I don't think he would now.

He and Amy are similar and I'm sure she would be more receptive to him than Leela tends to be if he decided to take another shot at her, but they wouldn't be together long. They're really too similar to work, I think. They wouldn't really get anything out of the relationship in the long term because, like Gorky said about Fry and Leela, they don't challenge each other. To have a successful relationship you don't have to be opposites, but you have to be different enough that your partner makes you  but make you realize things about yourself that you previously didn't (for better or for worse). Leela made Fry more driven and selfless, and Fry can make Leela more impulsive and open. Fry and Amy just can't have a dynamic like that.

Maybe.  Amy is getting a lot more fleshed out now (we've found out she's a plucky girl when the fate of the world rests on her hands, and she is a genius doctor who doomed the Earth and saved it as well, and she's not afraid to stand up for her beliefs).  I kind of find the Fry and Leela relationship really tired by now, because the writers don't know what to do with it.   I'm not really a shippy person when it comes to Futurama, but I just want the writers to decide whether they want Fry and Leela to be a couple or not, and STICK TO IT.   I have gotten incredibly annoyed by being hit round the head with the FRY AND LEELA BELONG TOGETHER HAMMER, and then having Leela inexpicably be dating some completely unlikable jerk the next episode.  

Plus, while Leela bring's out Fry's best qualities as you say, I disagree with Fry making Leela a better person.    Fry seems to bring out Leela's worst qualities.  She becomes really arrogant and coldly rebuffs Fry's devotion, yet becomes incredibly jealous when he finally moves on and finds someone else, but going straight back to the disdain when they break up.  Yet she always expects him to be thrilled for her when she starts dating some asshole (let's face it, Leela has appalling taste in men, personality-wise.)  

Personally though, I like Amy and Fry together, and now that Amy is getting a lot more character development, I think she is getting enough of her own personality to contrast with Fry's (in that she's genius mechanic/physicist but has no common sense, rather then being a genuine idiot like Fry, she is a billionare heiress,  ect.)   I think if she just gets put in the driving seat more often, she would seriously give Leela a run for her money.  : )  
jeepdavetj

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #111 on: 07-17-2011 03:16 »

I admit when I first started watching way back in 2000, I thought Amy was a better match for Fry. But as the series progressed, I think Leela is the one for him. She loves him, even if she won't admit it. Amy, not so much.
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #112 on: 07-17-2011 08:58 »

Amy and Fry are more similar, but I think Fry and Leela make for a much deeper, more rewarding couple.

I mean... I've had relationships with girls very similar to myself -but the only girl I've actually been 100% in love with was very different to me. We were different, but in ways that complimented and challenged each other (in a good way). It was more rewarding to spend time with someone different because they could teach me more about life and the world and vice versa. I actually fell in love with this girl, whereas I only end up being very, very, very good friends with the girls that are just like me.
This is what Fry and Leela have compared to what Fry and Amy have. I also really like Kif and Amy as a couple for the same reasons.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #113 on: 07-17-2011 10:24 »
« Last Edit on: 07-17-2011 10:30 »

Well said, cyber_turnip. That's what I was getting at with my first post, but you stated it much more eloquently.

I also wanted to add that Futurama is conventional in some ways, which is why Fry and Leela are the endgame, relationship-wise. Most sitcoms (which, when you get down to it, is what Futurama is) tend to pair up the two leads romantically, and since the writers have already spent so much time developing Fry and Leela's relationship, it would just be jarring and weird and a big screw-you to pair Fry and Amy in the end. (It's logic like this, I'd imagine, that led the Friends writers to pair Ross and Rachel at the end of the series rather than the misstep of Rachel and Joey. Of course, Futurama is an infinitely better show than Friends (and Fry and Leela make much more sense to me than Rachel and Ross), but it's still a valid comparison.)

Amy was just a detour, really, and the Fry/Amy relationship only made sense at that point in the series because the writers had not yet explored Fry/Leela (beyond "A Flight to Remember" (which also had the Fry/Amy tease) and maybe "Xmas Story"), and Amy was still just this sweet but vacuous party girl who had not yet become involved with Kif. An episode like "Time Keeps on Slipping" is much more resonant to me than anything in "Put Your Head on My Shoulder" (or, in terms of Amy/somebody else vs. Amy/Kif, "Kif Gets Knocked Up a Notch" is more resonant than "Proposition Infinity"), and the level of emotional maturity in TKOS compared to the played-for-laughs nature of PYHoMS indicates that Fry and Leela's relationship has so much more meaning and dramatic potential than any other pairing you could imagine for either character.

Edit: It's too goddamn late for me to be posting. Sooo many typos.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #114 on: 07-17-2011 10:54 »

Arguably... I think Fry and Amy work out better together as a couple.  Their personality types are actually very similar.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #115 on: 07-17-2011 15:04 »

While we are talking about lonely childhoods, haven't all the main characters had unhappy childhoods?

Zoidberg was raised by a controlling mother figure after his biological parents died, Farnsworth was incontinent until the age of eight, and Amy was overweight and had an acne problem and had the misfortune of being a daughter to a couple who wanted a son, and from what we've seen of her childhood, her parents were pretty neglectful and emotionally abusive (similar to Fry's).  I'm guessing it's probably why she continues to have a barely controlled eating disorder to this day.    Leela's childhood was clearly the most miserable, and Fry's unhappiness stems from missing his loved ones from the 21st century... since he's too oblivious to realize how truly awful his parents were. 

(Part of Fry's charm is that he's an innocent, he only recognizes open hostility, and even then half the time he's too sweet/naive to realize when someone is being nasty to him.)

So yes, I want Fry and Leela to be together since thats clearly what the Powers that Be want, because hell, Fry has spent so long pining after her and putting up with her sometimes heartless rebuffs, but when it comes down to it, I think Amy and Fry work out better.   I think the writers wrote themselves into a corner with that one, they got on together so well as a couple, they realized the only way they could make it not work is if they made Fry suddenly become a commitment phobic asshole.  Their relationship had plenty more mileage left in it.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #116 on: 07-17-2011 16:09 »
« Last Edit on: 07-17-2011 16:15 »

I guess that's where we have to agree to to disagree, SpaceGoldfish. I like Amy as a character, but I just find her relationship with Kif much more compelling than her relationships with either Fry or Bender. I think the moment for Fry and Amy to become a couple would have been in season one of two (it was teased in "A Flight to Remember" (though even then, Fry considered his fake relationship with Leela much more meaningful), and was explored in "Put Your Head on My Shoulder"), and for the writers to put the two of them together now would just fly in the face of everything they're developed between Fry and Leela. I don't know that the writers made a mistake or wrote themselves into a corner, like you say, because I personally find Fry and Leela the more compelling couple--but I suppose I can see why you see potential for Fry and Amy.

But, to me, Fry winding up with Amy would really indicate a lack of character development on his part. You take away the childhood on Mars and the proclivity for squishy green alien men, and Amy is just like any other girl Fry might have known in the twenty-first century. She cute and funny and smart and privileged, a bit of a party girl but with a good heart. Fry could have met plenty of girls just like Amy had he never been frozen, and he probably would have found one and been happy with her.

But pairing Fry up with Leela not only shows that Fry is capable of being in a relationship not based solely on looks ('cause you'd have to be blind not to notice that Leela's a cyclops...an ass-kickin', hot-as-hell cyclops, but a cyclops nonetheless) or wealth, and it really brings home the point that Fry just fits in the year 3000 so much more effortlessly, so much more comfortably, than he would have in the year 2000. Amy, to me, represents a more conventional woman, a Leela Lite; Leela just seems more like the real deal to me.

Also, for the sake of argument: I don't think Fry had to become commitment-phobic for his relationship with Amy to end. Mostly their relationship consisted of them making out, juggling, and saying "junk" a lot. That's not he most compelling, uh, junk to be watching. And Fry broke up with Umbriel pretty easily in "The Deep South" despite purportedly being in love with her, his relationship with Morgan Proctor was based around sex, and he only rekindled his romance with Michelle out of a sense of nostalgia. Hell, the most loving relationship Fry has had is probably with the Lucy Liu bot in "I Dated a Robot," in terms of his level of commitment and sorrow at the relationship's end.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #117 on: 07-18-2011 00:35 »

Leela is a knockout!  Even if a lot of people are offput by her eye (which I find truly puzzling in a universe where Kif is considered an extremely attractive man by members of many different species, one of whom was a misandrist fembot, whilst Amy could have just about any man in the universe she wants), she is extremely beautiful, and Fry clearly finds her so.  I would say a much better example of a relationship not based on looks is the incredibly stunning LeBarbera ditching Barbados Slim for the fat, unattractive Hermes.  :P

So while I want Fry and Leela to hook up because of all the time invested in this relationship, Amy is becoming a considerably more fleshed out character.  She had looks and wealth, and a heart too.  Now we're seeing she has brains and guts.  (Metaphorically of course, she would be pretty dead if she didn't have the first two in the literal sense).  I think if her character development continues, we might start looking at Fry like he's completely crazy to dump her, and then spend about a decade on a woman who is extremely fickle at best.   So I think we will agree to disagree.

 I think Fry and Leela belong together for all the reasons you've said, but when it comes down to it, i like Fry and Amy more. 
leiapadme77

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #118 on: 07-18-2011 01:40 »
« Last Edit on: 07-18-2011 01:44 »

I think Fry and Leela belong together for all the reasons you've said, but when it comes down to it, i like Fry and Amy more.  

WHAT?!?! eek
Blasphemy!! lol Seriously, I can't imagine Fry and Amy together. Put your Head on My shoulders was funny, but they are just too different and although Amy is smart and funny, she is still a ditzy klutz and she already has Kif.
Leela and Fry are just perfect, cause they were all alone in the world and always feel like outsiders and hundreds of other reasons I don't care to think of right now. Leela is definitely a knockout. Amy is cute, but Leela is gorgeous. And although rude and bitchy sometimes, she has an awesome personality.

I count Fry and Leela 'hooking up' in Prisoner of Benda. Even though they weren't in their acutal bodies, it still means something. Also, I'm pretty sure we can assume they went home and had a little fun after they got back into the proper bodies.
Anyway, since the end of the first half of this season (Prisoner of Benda and the Mutants are Revolting) I've considered them together. Even though so far in the new episodes we haven't seen much, I just assume there are things going on, but the episode is just not exploring it.
I don't think Fry had to become commitment-phobic for his relationship with Amy to end. Mostly their relationship consisted of them making out, juggling, and saying "junk" a lot. That's not he most compelling, uh, junk to be watching. And Fry broke up with Umbriel pretty easily in "The Deep South" despite purportedly being in love with her, his relationship with Morgan Proctor was based around sex, and he only rekindled his romance with Michelle out of a sense of nostalgia. Hell, the most loving relationship Fry has had is probably with the Lucy Liu bot in "I Dated a Robot," in terms of his level of commitment and sorrow at the relationship's end.

Yes, all those were just women Fry was having sex with or dating. He was not in love with them. Leela is Fry's everything...he definitely loves her, and he acts totally different with her compared to how he acts with someone like Amy or Morgan Proctor. Like we talked about before, his personality really shines through when he's alone with Leela.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #119 on: 07-18-2011 01:47 »
« Last Edit on: 07-18-2011 01:51 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

Well it felt committment phobic to me.  Amy says casually "I like hanging out with you" and Fry suddenly reacts like she's just announced that she's pregnant or she wants to move in.  Then Fry starts acting like a lunatic saying he's a one woman man, and Amy is smothering him.   It just felt jarring since Fry is easily the sweetest character on the show, and Amy. 

I do agree with what you are saing leiapadme, Amy is cute, while Leela is beautiful (so is LeBarbera, but she's already taken, heh) 

I'm not sure, the thing I dislike about the latest season is... after all the headway we made in the episodes you mentioned, Fry and Leela seem to be back to where they were at the beginning.  Well, worse actually, since they seem to be treating eachother pretty rubbishly.

Fry was
Content to let a bunch of strangers ogle Leela in her calender/stewerdess uniform
Was a complete asshole to her (but to be honest, all the male characters were sexist jerks for this episode for some reason)
Was content to let her burst into flames for some stupid bet

Leela:
Was also content to let Fry burn to death for winning some stupid bet
Did not seem especially upset about Fry having to move to another planet, instead remarking: Yes, I often wish you would go far away sometimes
Treated him with contempt for most of Law and Oracle

I can think of more, but I really think the writers seem to have completely abandoned them as a couple, which is extremely annoying after all the progress they made between Wild Green Yonder - Mutants are Revolting.  
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