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Author Topic: Shipping Even Higher into the Sun...  (Read 70273 times)
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Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
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« Reply #680 on: 07-13-2012 06:08 »

What? While studies show that marriages that have a two year plus engagement period don't seem to fare well, vows exchanged within a short amount of time (like, less than a month) do even worse! Think about the Las Vegas drive-by weddings!
I think you misunderstood my post because we seem to be in agreement.  I was saying that couples who get married immediately after getting engaged are in error.  And yes, long engagements can be just as bad.  The figure I was told is roughly one year is optimum for long term marriage contentment.

It gets a little complicated with Fry and Leela though, because they have known each other and been in close proximity for so long already.  They are already far past the 'emotional high' stage, which is the best time to get married, according to what I learned.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #681 on: 07-13-2012 06:10 »
« Last Edit on: 07-13-2012 06:12 »

You're still hung up on that one throwaway gag line? In an episode that has really nothing to do with Fry and Leela's relationship? It was a bad, stupid line, yes, but get over it! Obviously it didn't mean anything, and you are holding on to your ill feelings too long.

You seriously underestimate my ability to hold a grudge, madam!

Seriously, though: It's not like that line--which, yes, I realize is a throwaway gag--ruins "Ghost in the Machines" for me (trust me, that episode offends me on much deeper levels, and for varied reasons); it's just that it's so unnecessary. It adds nothing to the episode, and feels like deliberate shipper-baiting. So, yeah, I resent it just a smidge.

Quote
Why can't you be upset at "Bender's Big Score", hunh? Now that entire movie was a trainwreck that everybody (well, not Xanfor and some select others) seems to have exonerate and exalted to a demigod status.

BBS isn't my favorite of the movies (that honor belongs to Wild Green Yonder), but I don't think it's a train-wreck by any means. I think people went into it expecting to see Fry and Leela as a couple, and were immediately annoyed when that was not the case. They thought of this as some kind of massive reset, even though there is nothing concrete given to us at the end of season four that suggests Fry and Leela instantly fell into one another's arms post-"The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings."

Nothing in Devil's Hands conclusively shows that Fry and Leela might henceforth embark on a real, committed romantic relationship; rather, it's just a sweet, incredibly ambiguous ending that the writers designed so that it could work as both a season and a series finale. I can almost guarantee that, had the show returned for a fifth season back in 2003, the premiere episode would have hit the reset button in the same way BBS is often accused of doing. (Disclaimer: I may not actually be able to guarantee that.)

Granted, if you think the movie is a train-wreck for reasons beyond its alleged pushing of the reset button, then that may render the above point totally irrelevant. I just bring the reset thing up because it's the most common complaint people seem to make about BBS--but I don't mean to say that the movie is flawless in every other regard, 'cause it's not. It's just that I don't feel like elaborating on its various shortcomings right now, as it is waaay past my bedtime.

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For somebody who is so cool with "Bender's Big Score", I don't get how you wouldn't want them to be married in the course of the show.

Wait, what? I'm not following your logic there.

Quote
I see this current season as the writers' test to see how well that can handle having two prominent characters being in a committed relationship without their romance putting a drain on the show.

Fair enough.

Quote
A marriage is not a death sentence.

Obviously you've never been in love married. tongue

Quote
they will never introduce children into the show...David has clearly stated that in interviews. Several times. And he always goes on to say that it would destroy the dynamic of the show.

I respect and trust DXC, but his promise that the show would never introduce a baby for Fry and Leela doesn't guarantee that, if the show is renewed after 7B and the writers have to deal with a Fry/Leela marriage, they might not realize there are few Big Stories to tell that don't involve a kid in some capacity. And that's what worries me: the fact that the future of the show is still so up-in-the-air, and the producers might very well say things now that they won't be able to follow through on if we get an eighth season.

On that note, though:  

Quote
However, that doesn't mean Fry/Leela spawn can't appear in a flash-forward, as time travelers, or in a non-canonical segment

I agree with this; such a thing might be very cool to see, if it is in fact kept to a one-off appearance.

I'm not trying to be a total naysayer here--I just don't see how a Fry/Leela marriage will add much to the show. Seeing them in a committed, monogamous relationship is enough for me (and for the show, storytelling-wise); an engagement might be nice, and a wedding would make a good Last Series Finale Ever We Swear. But a marriage isn't something I need--or necessarily even want--to see a show like Futurama attempt.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #682 on: 07-13-2012 06:18 »

Seriously, though: It's not like that line--which, yes, I realize is a throwaway gag--ruins "Ghost in the Machines" for me (trust me, that episode offends me on much deeper levels, and for varied reasons); it's just that it's so unnecessary. It adds nothing to the episode, and feels like deliberate shipper-baiting. So, yeah, I resent it just a smidge.

That phrase might have been the writers try to refer to their relationships on/off status. (I did not say "successful" try, though wink ).

It might also be an effort to show that relationships might be more open in the 30th century, yet I doubt it. Cheating like aspects (including jealousy, getting caught) still bear rather an aspect of "though being done, but not being okay".
Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #683 on: 07-13-2012 06:43 »
« Last Edit on: 07-13-2012 06:47 »


You should see the post I just posted in the News thread EDIT: I MEANT THE ZAPP DINGBAT THREAD!!! And I did just read all of that.

Thanks for finding that framegrab - I didn't notice the sign... and now I've just got that gag loool, thanks for setting that straight - all I remember is the exchange between Zoidberg and Randy.

I never really like BBS, perhaps because it had been so long since I'd seen an actual episode and not used to so many cartoon asses, but coming straight from TDHAIP it didn't seem to acknowledge it other than the 'we're back baby'. All the 4th wall stuff made me laugh for some strange reason. They should make an episode about their many "fans" laff

I think perhaps subtle moments between Fry and Leela are more powerful than a whole episode. This pic for example:

I would love to over-analyze that pic like crazy.
I tend to get more shipping theories and predictions from that than this:


If you really want to read the analysing overviews

I think that while whole episodes on the Fry/Leela relationship is quite fun and makes me squee, I like the little subtle (and sometimes not so subtle) moments that they have every so often, especially when they're really random.

uh, I just took a phone call and now I don't remember what else I was going to say...

I will quickly say I am looking forward to "Fun on a Bun" It's meant to be a Bender-esque episode, but it seems to have a large element of Fry as well,
Spacedal11

Space Pope
****
« Reply #684 on: 07-13-2012 07:04 »

Heh, I always over-analyzed the scene from The Sting where Leela finds Fry's jacket around her and she says, "He's alive!" followed by Hattie shouting through the wall, "Quit your yammering! My boyfriend is alive too!"

I mean, her subconscious suggests that Fry is her boyfriend, so she must have romantic feelings for him? Right?!
Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #685 on: 07-13-2012 07:07 »

Heh, I always over-analyzed the scene from The Sting where Leela finds Fry's jacket around her and she says, "He's alive!" followed by Hattie shouting through the wall, "Quit your yammering! My boyfriend is alive too!"

I mean, her subconscious suggests that Fry is her boyfriend, so she must have romantic feelings for him? Right?!
o.o I've always been too busy laughing to even think that! That totally makes sense! Although I don't want to think about Leelas mind for too long, it ridiculously complicated.
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #686 on: 07-14-2012 22:48 »

Quote from: Kevin Fitzpatrick
The first piece of footage we saw was from the upcoming episode “Fun on the Bun,” which sees the crew headed to Oktoberfest! However, the famed German holiday isn’t what it used to be, and has become a festival of extreme elegance rather than the rowdy rager Fry remembers. Bored, and looking for a drink, Fry swills of the beer spittoon, and causes enough of a drunk scene for Leela to break up with him! Wait, they were dating?

Eep. Taken from this.
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #687 on: 07-14-2012 23:10 »

I assumed they were dating since Overclockwise.  Interesting that Leela would break up with Fry over drunkenness, but not over screwing Amy in TBE.  That must be one hell of a fight they have in FOAB!

It also mentions that: "Fry manages to get caught in the sausage-making machine, while Bender looks on, and later inadvertently serves Fry sausage to Leela. After finding his hair and clothes on the bun, Leela screams in horror! Oh no!"

I don't see anything sexual about that.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #688 on: 07-14-2012 23:21 »
« Last Edit on: 07-14-2012 23:28 »

After finding his hair and clothes on the bun, Leela screams in horror! Oh no!"

Shouldn't she rather sigh "Oh no...not again" ("Rebirth") wink

Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #689 on: 07-15-2012 04:41 »

Did anyone get this footage and post it somewhere? Seriously, all I'm seeing on youtube is mlp comicon footage.
It also mentions that: "Fry manages to get caught in the sausage-making machine, while Bender looks on..."
I'm now scared my username is going to mean something else by the time this ep is aired.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #690 on: 07-15-2012 18:44 »

I assumed they were dating since Overclockwise.

I thought they got together at the end of ITWGY. This confuzzles me.
Just Fan
Starship Captain
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« Reply #691 on: 07-15-2012 18:51 »

Did anyone get this footage and post it somewhere? Seriously, all I'm seeing on youtube is mlp comicon footage.
It also mentions that: "Fry manages to get caught in the sausage-making machine, while Bender looks on..."
I'm now scared my username is going to mean something else by the time this ep is aired.
Yeah, you should be scared because:
Quote
Unfortunately, when stuffing the mammoth in the mammal mincer, Fry gets trapped and Bender's sausages are part mammoth, part Fry. It's only discovered after Leela eats a bit of Fry sausage, which is delicious despite the presence of red hair.
big grin
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #692 on: 07-15-2012 20:22 »
« Last Edit on: 07-16-2012 00:34 »

I assumed they were dating since Overclockwise.

I thought they got together at the end of ITWGY. This confuzzles me.

The most confused people were probably the writers themselves, and the episodes show that big grin tongue

I'm now scared my username is going to mean something else by the time this ep is aired.

Well..you can still make a screenshot from that episode to be used as your new avatar wink
Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #693 on: 07-16-2012 03:09 »

I'm now scared my username is going to mean something else by the time this ep is aired.
Yeah, you should be scared because:
Quote
Unfortunately, when stuffing the mammoth in the mammal mincer, Fry gets trapped and Bender's sausages are part mammoth, part Fry. It's only discovered after Leela eats a bit of Fry sausage, which is delicious despite the presence of red hair.
big grin
nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu!!!
Well, at least it's delicious.
Well..you can still make a screenshot from that episode to be used as your new avatar wink
Uh, no thanks, I prefer my honey glazed Fry reference to a Fry sausage reference.
Just Fan
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #694 on: 07-16-2012 03:42 »

Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #695 on: 07-16-2012 06:34 »
« Last Edit on: 07-16-2012 06:40 »

pumpkinpie

Starship Captain
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« Reply #696 on: 07-16-2012 08:02 »
« Last Edit on: 07-16-2012 08:03 »

I just realized two fricken adorable things. 1. In AFTA when Leela has her hand in the box and Fry's arm is wrapped around her, the way they look at each other...they just look SO IN LOVE IT'S ADORABLE. 2. In Zapp Dingbat, when Fry is talking about Zapp and Munda "meant to be" you can obviously tell he's thinking about him and Leela  love
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #697 on: 07-16-2012 10:02 »
« Last Edit on: 07-17-2012 06:25 »

No doubt about the second.
But I am not sure about the first one:
It could be some lovey-dovey expression, but also some "Haha, I am soooo good, and sooo valueable" arrogant look, without the thought of being left behind even crossing her mind. Just to be given the finger by the machine seconds later.
(Personally, I prefer the "cutting Leela to size" theory wink )
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #698 on: 07-17-2012 04:00 »

I guess the look from "A Farewell to Arms" is ambiguous enough for your interpretation to fit, Hein, but I choose to see it in the lovey-dovey way posited by pumpkinpie. Not only is this my duty as a helpless, hopeless shipper--but, also, I think Leela is really relateable and likeable in that episode, and it's so clear throughout how much she cares for Fry. She indulges his gallantry, to a great extent; she encourages him to go to Mars without her when she finds out she's been rejected; and she genuinely thanks him at episode's end and acknowledges how he is the only person in her life who cares about her enough to go to such great lengths for her.

Though Leela is often arrogant, and sometimes seems to be almost lording it over Fry how much she knows he loves her, I don't get that vibe at all in AFtA; rather, I think she and Fry are very sweet with one another, and it's clear that she reciprocates his affections. It's probably the most well-done shippy episode of the series, in that regard; not once do I question how much Leela loves Fry.
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #699 on: 07-17-2012 04:58 »

Yeah, but Hein is biased. wink  He's got it out for Leela, or more accurately, the writers of her character.

Despite that, I think he is right.  She's just basking in the affirmation, which is very understandable considering her history.  If I were an orphan who grew up being picked on for being different and being the lowest class, I surmise that I too would probably develop a complex and soak up any admiration I could get.  She never had parental figures to affirm her in her formative years, you see.  It's arrogance, but of a different kind, borne from different circumstances.  Not necessarily vanity.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #700 on: 07-17-2012 15:16 »

That's a really fine analysis of Leela's character, Louis; I totally agree with you that, generally-speaking, Leela's smugness is not born of the genuine belief that she's So Awesome So Infallible So Great, but is in fact just the way her childhood insecurities manifest themselves.

I still think the look in "A Farewell to Arms" is of a romantic, not a self-serving, nature, though. It kind of reminds me of that sultry sort of look Fry and Leela give one another at the end of "Teenage Mutant Leela's Hurdles."

Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #701 on: 07-19-2012 03:14 »

It's a 'everything will work out and I'm glad I'm with you' look.

Although in AFTA their happy bubble is popped.

I'm surprised they didn't make note of Frys ability of a weapon, although maybe it's because he's not qualified?
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #702 on: 07-19-2012 04:45 »

I have mixed feelings on "The Butterjunk Effect"--not for its handling of the shippy stuff, mind you, but for its rushed and gross and nonsensical third act--but I did like how it explored the characters' romantic and platonic relationships in new-ish and interesting ways.

I particularly enjoyed seeing the exaggeration of Kif and Amy's dynamic (in which the former has always been kind of submissive to the latter; this episode took it to a very amusing extreme) and the elaboration on Leela and Amy's friendship (which has always been a little snide; it was nice to see some genuine affection between them here).

Oh, and Fry and Kif had some good moments, too--as did Bender and Fry. I particularly enjoyed Bender's annoyance at Fry asking him out as a last option...before immediately agreeing to go out with him. Now that is a bromance done right: not subtly, but not too overpoweringly, either.
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #703 on: 07-19-2012 07:59 »

I particularly enjoyed Bender's annoyance at Fry asking him out as a last option...before immediately agreeing to go out with him. Now that is a bromance done right: not subtly, but not too overpoweringly, either.

Agreed!  (You need to say something that I can actually disagree with for once! smile )  Anyway, now that Romantic Couple # 2401 are seemingly together consistently, Bender is going to have to figure out what to do with himself more often, and there are plenty of stories to tell there.  Just don't make them as overt as GITM.  Think more along the lines of "I Roomate" - one of my favorites.

The Fry and Leela stuff was handled very well in TBE, even taking into account the almost! infidelity.  That doesn't really count though.  I'm glad that Leela actually showed some concern for Fry at the end when he was on the operating table, rather than not going to see him while he was in the hospital for two weeks. mad
Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #704 on: 07-19-2012 16:06 »

So glad that Fry and Leela are properly and seriously dating ... until Fun on a Bun apparently *headdesk* Although I'm sure it'll pick up not long afterward, they've been through a lot of ups and downs, this will just be an obligatory down.

And I agree, it was nice to see a bit of Kif/Amy, (Kif without Zapp?!  eek amazing! They should do it more often!) However I don't like the fact that Kif a bit of a pushover at moments in TBE. I also don't like how Leela didn't get particularly cross at Amy for being all over Fry.

On a slightly nicer note, Kif and Fry don't interact much, but this showcased that they have a friendship and that was nice.

Oh, and Fry and Kif had some good moments, too--as did Bender and Fry. I particularly enjoyed Bender's annoyance at Fry asking him out as a last option...before immediately agreeing to go out with him. Now that is a bromance done right: not subtly, but not too overpoweringly, either.

Bender and Fry have a special bromance that is displayed repeatedly, and I've become a bigger fan of Benders because of it. I believe Bender is a F/L shipper as well, there's never been an instance (that I can remember) where he's come between him - which begs the question is that going to be a future episode?

Here's the little something sweet we got from TBE, just to fluff the thread a little


So next week, the "The Six Million Dollar Mon", is obviously about Hermes, but is there going to be some hot scented body oil action? (cause Leela in the clip the grab is from is actually asking him)Or is Fry going to miss an opportunity because he's busy eavesdropping?
Just Fan
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #705 on: 07-19-2012 16:43 »
« Last Edit on: 07-19-2012 16:49 »

Quote
...Or is Fry going to miss an opportunity because he's busy eavesdropping?
Yep, because a moment you described is a reuse of a sultry joke from 6ACV26 (the video game segment) big grin.

Leela: [sexfully] Hey, Fry. I know something you could lay bare.
Fry: [angry] Leela! Shhh! I'm tryin' to listen to a physics lecture!
pumpkinpie

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #706 on: 07-19-2012 16:49 »

Yes, it seems amazingly, when Fry is concentrating on something, he rejects the option to perform scenes from various pornos.
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #707 on: 07-19-2012 18:17 »

"Leela! No means no!" laff

Ah, Fry you are experiencing the benefits of having a smoking hot, but also sexually repressed (and thus unusually eager) girlfriend.  And now he turns her down!  I suppose that's only fair though.
El-Man

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #708 on: 07-20-2012 01:13 »

So next week, the "The Six Million Dollar Mon", is obviously about Hermes, but is there going to be some hot scented body oil action? (cause Leela in the clip the grab is from is actually asking him)Or is Fry going to miss an opportunity because he's busy eavesdropping?

I'd bet he's going to miss it. Fry doesn't seem to 'click' in certain sexy situations. He got it in TBE when Leela says to leave his door unlocked (Ohhhhhhh...), but his mind is already occupied with eavesdropping here.

Then, an hour later, he'll sit up straight and say "Wait - hot scented body oil....?" and facepalm.
Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #709 on: 07-20-2012 04:04 »

Yep, because a moment you described is a reuse of a sultry joke from 6ACV26 (the video game segment) big grin.

Leela: [sexfully] Hey, Fry. I know something you could lay bare.
Fry: [angry] Leela! Shhh! I'm tryin' to listen to a physics lecture!
With the exception that I don't think Leela is intending it to be sexual this time (although it totally is), she just wants full coverage and she prefers Fry cause he's better at it than Amy.
... wait, does this mean he's done this before?
It has been mentioned he likes giving oil backrubs: "I've got a baggy of massage oil, and I'm gonna give you my super back rub..."


~

I'mma watch the clip again to get the full quote

Leela: Fry? Can you come in here and help me rub on this new scented body oil?
Fry: In a second, I'm eavesdropping
Amy: Please Fry? Leela punishes me when I don't use enough.
Fry: I said not now!

Also lol at how desperate Leela and Amys tone of voices are - especially Leela calling out "Fry?"
"Leela! No means no!" laff

Ah, Fry you are experiencing the benefits of having a smoking hot, but also sexually repressed (and thus unusually eager) girlfriend.  And now he turns her down!  I suppose that's only fair though.
Don't think he knows what he's doing xD Typical Fry - but hey, when you look this good, you don't have to know anything!

Then, an hour later, he'll sit up straight and say "Wait - hot scented body oil....?" and facepalm.

Oh, I hope they do that xD And then he can blame Bender.
Just Fan
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #710 on: 07-20-2012 04:31 »

Quote
Leela: Fry? Can you come in here and help me rub on this new scented body oil?
Fry: In a second, I'm eavesdropping
Amy: Please Fry? Leela punishes me when I don't use enough.
Fry: I said not now!
Thanks for providing the full quote, TLF. It completely made my day! smile
Fry875

Crustacean
*
« Reply #711 on: 07-22-2012 20:12 »

Looking forward to next week's epsiode to see if Fry does realise what he missed out on big grin
But especially buzzed for fun on a bun, wanna see how Fry and Leela lose their memories of eachother and if they get back together by the end of the ep, hope they do *fingers crossed*
pumpkinpie

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #712 on: 07-24-2012 17:07 »

Looking forward to next week's epsiode to see if Fry does realise what he missed out on big grin
But especially buzzed for fun on a bun, wanna see how Fry and Leela lose their memories of eachother and if they get back together by the end of the ep, hope they do *fingers crossed*

Of course they do! Bender said so.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #713 on: 07-24-2012 17:21 »

Looking forward to next week's epsiode to see if Fry does realise what he missed out on big grin
But especially buzzed for fun on a bun, wanna see how Fry and Leela lose their memories of eachother and if they get back together by the end of the ep, hope they do *fingers crossed*

Of course they do! Bender said so.

Well..they will get together at some point..might well be beyond that episode wink
Just Fan
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #714 on: 07-24-2012 19:00 »
« Last Edit on: 07-24-2012 19:03 »

@Inquisitor Hein

Regarding "Fun on a Bun". Just found this:
pumpkinpie

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #715 on: 07-24-2012 19:09 »

Look what I found:

During the scene when everyone is cheering after the peace treaty is signed.[20:26-20:28] Fry and Leela are shown hugging, Fry mouths something to Leela that appears to be "I love you" but there is no audio from this conversation. Listening very closely the words "I love you" can be heard from Fry

Source: Infosphere
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #716 on: 07-24-2012 19:11 »

We've had a huge conversation about it in the 7ACV05 review thread, I even asked Eric Rogers (the writer of the ep) over Twitter if he does say "I love you." and he confirmed he does not, even if it looks that way.
pumpkinpie

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #717 on: 07-24-2012 20:41 »

Danny, here's my theory:

Gorky,(voted Peel's biggest shipper in 2011) broke into the Futurama studio,reanimated of the episode to make Fry say "I love you",then broke into Billy West's house and threatened him to record saying "I love you" or else she would rip out his vocal chords. Then, she added that recording to the episode, and sent it to Comedy Central before anyone could notice. That is why the ending of Zapp Dingbat appears quite rushed. The original ending had a Globetrotters appearence and Bender having yet another sex change. Upon viewing the episode, Gorky sighed, happy that her shipper horniness had been satisfied.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #718 on: 07-24-2012 23:49 »
« Last Edit on: 07-25-2012 08:07 »

@Inquisitor Hein

Regarding "Fun on a Bun". Just found this:

Spacedal11

Space Pope
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« Reply #719 on: 07-28-2012 22:11 »
« Last Edit on: 07-28-2012 22:20 »

Danny, here's my theory:

Gorky,(voted Peel's biggest shipper in 2011) broke into the Futurama studio,reanimated of the episode to make Fry say "I love you",then broke into Billy West's house and threatened him to record saying "I love you" or else she would rip out his vocal chords. Then, she added that recording to the episode, and sent it to Comedy Central before anyone could notice. That is why the ending of Zapp Dingbat appears quite rushed. The original ending had a Globetrotters appearence and Bender having yet another sex change. Upon viewing the episode, Gorky sighed, happy that her shipper horniness had been satisfied.


Jimminy Christmas. I mean in the history of the show this is the best time to be a Fry/Leela shipper and it's still not enough? If you're making a huge deal about this "I love you" thing now (ie: The era where Fry and Leela are actually dating, it has been established that they are both in love) I can't imagine what it must have been like for you in the pre-dating era. Talk about grasping for straws. There are children in Africa who love to have the shipping we are giving on a week to week basis, now finish your spinach!
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