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Author Topic: Shipping Even Higher into the Sun...  (Read 69773 times)
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Laugh-a-loud

Bending Unit
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« Reply #240 on: 08-15-2011 13:36 »

Just as I suspected... It's for me to know and for you to never reach bedrock. Figure out yourself.  wink
cake
Crustacean
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« Reply #241 on: 08-15-2011 14:03 »

Actually I get a feeling that Leela is teasing Fry on purpose with this actions. Do you really think Leela would ever fall for guy like that? Look at her face expression more closely at various parts of episode.
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #242 on: 08-15-2011 14:16 »

Actually I get a feeling that Leela is teasing Fry on purpose with this actions. Do you really think Leela would ever fall for guy like that?

Yes? No?! Welcome to PEEL cake, awesome username. big grin
Laugh-a-loud

Bending Unit
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« Reply #243 on: 08-15-2011 14:47 »

Actually I get a feeling that Leela is teasing Fry on purpose with this actions. Do you really think Leela would ever fall for guy like that? Look at her face expression more closely at various parts of episode.
Teasing, you say ? I believe it is past that long ago, if even there was any teasing at all. I want to say it's in somewhere between cruelty and absurd. Seriously, to flirt in front of your *boyfriend*, how do you call that ?
Generally, it's just writers faults for them to be in this two-dimentional relationship. Somehow it got very old, and if it doesn't change soon, it will get completely unrealistic as far as cartoon can get. Or whatever.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #244 on: 08-15-2011 20:52 »

Quote
Seriously, to flirt in front of your *boyfriend*, how do you call that ?
I call that "a women who thinks her boyfriend dared to look at another woman for exactly 0,5 seconds to long" big grin
(Sorry, could not resist that one wink )
leiapadme77

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #245 on: 08-16-2011 04:56 »

That line from the preview really bothers me. It makes me very worried for this ship frown
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
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« Reply #246 on: 08-16-2011 05:06 »

Quote
Seriously, to flirt in front of your *boyfriend*, how do you call that ?
I call that "a women who thinks her boyfriend dared to look at another woman for exactly 0,5 seconds to long" big grin
(Sorry, could not resist that one wink )

All ladies are hypocrites.  It's in their DNA. (joke joke)

But Leela is a hypocrite though, it is one of the major parts of her personality.   
Hence this is her in some of the shippy episodes:
"Hey Fry, I know you're madly in love with me, but here is some  some douchebag I am dating!  He's so hot!  I might end up screwing him tonight, would you mind walking my pet?  Thanks!  I'm so happy for me!  Here's a pooper scooper.  You're such a good friend.  I hope you can get over me, because I don't want to date you at all."

So when Fry finally gets over her:
"How dare you get over me!  Who do you think you are?  Don't you know I really didn't mean for you to get over me!  When I said "Get over me" I really meant: "Pine after me and be lonely and celibate for the rest of your life to boost my ego.  God!  What's wrong with you?!?  You're so selfish, dating a girl who makes you happy instead of worshipping me in the vain hope I might actually go out with you!"

I'm kinda being jokey, but Leela's actions in the shipping do come across as very selfish and tactless, and sometimes pretty cold and cruel.  One of the reasons I want them to be together is that the "Fry hopelessly pining after Leela" has not only gotten really old, it's actually begun to make Leela look like an emotionally fickle bitch whose stringing Fry along while not really being all that interested in him.
Laugh-a-loud

Bending Unit
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« Reply #247 on: 08-16-2011 10:20 »

And the SpaceGoldFish fromWazn really, really... Nailed it!
I guess. You have such a long pseudonym that it is hard to type it, even.
That line from the preview really bothers me. It makes me very worried for this ship frown
Judging from preview, something really drastic must happened. Maybe remaining episodes would lead to that but I highly doubt it.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #248 on: 08-16-2011 11:45 »
« Last Edit on: 08-16-2011 18:23 »

Well..the cheapest way for the writers to weazle themselves out would be:

- Let Leea and Fry "break up" (without even being together at all tongue)
- Overclocked Bender -who can forsee the future- sees them together in the future (but they remain seperated in the present)

(I just mention it here in case they really write the story that way, so I can say "See...told you they'd go the easiest way" big grin )
lilkitten29

Starship Captain
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« Reply #249 on: 08-16-2011 19:33 »

That line from the preview really bothers me. It makes me very worried for this ship frown

What preview?
Laugh-a-loud

Bending Unit
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« Reply #250 on: 08-16-2011 19:39 »

The preview for the upcoming episode called Overclockwise. There, I already said too much.
lilkitten29

Starship Captain
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« Reply #251 on: 08-16-2011 19:45 »

Oh, okay!
I'm not too worried about that.  As long as they show what the hell is happening between the two of them, then I am content. I do prefer that Fry and Leela be together though.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
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« Reply #252 on: 08-16-2011 19:47 »
« Last Edit on: 08-16-2011 19:49 »

Well..the cheapest way for the writers to weazle themselves out would be:

- Let Leea and Fry "break up" (without even being together at all tongue)
- Overclocked Bender -who can forsee the future- sees them together in the future (but they remain seperated in the present)

(I just mention it here in case they really write the story that way, so I can say "See...told you they'd go the easiest way" big grin )

Sounds cheap, but if they do that, at least they can stop this crummy "They  are together but not really" pseudo relationship they have.  


I'd like them to be together, because I find this particular type of plot too overused now, and most of the time it makes Leela look like a bitch, rather then a worthy love object.   I like Leela a lot better when she's not shooting down Fry or stringing him along.  Just have them sort it out once and for all.  Futurama is a character driven show, and those kind of stories and lines don't really work anymore, after the events of WGY and 6A
Laugh-a-loud

Bending Unit
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« Reply #253 on: 08-16-2011 19:51 »
« Last Edit on: 08-16-2011 19:56 »

Oh, okay!
I'm not too worried about that.  As long as they show what the hell is happening between the two of them, then I am content. I do prefer that Fry and Leela be together though.
That's the thing.. It will be okay as long as the writers will manage to pull out Fry/Leela ship and compensate for (lousy) 6B season shipness-wise.
Edit: Can certain someone with a nice long alias stop nailing it, please ?  smile
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
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« Reply #254 on: 08-16-2011 19:59 »

I wouldn't say it's so much as shippiness, as it is inconsistent writing, which bugs me more.  (My shippiness is mostly reserved for the Zelda fandom and even then its rather mild.) 

Normally Futurama is pretty good at managing its character arcs and other multi episode plot points. Fry and Leela are one of the biggest subplots of the series, but also the one that zig zags all over the shop.  Fry writes an opera for Leela, but it doesn't work out.  Fry and Leela discover their parallel universe selves are happily married.  NOthing comes of it.  Fry and Leela finally say I love you to eachother, but for the most part, their relationship is put on hold until they end up consumating it. 

Then 6b throws all that out the window, and now they seem to be Just Good Friends.  Amy and Kif on the other hand, are the Beta Couple, but are handled so much better (or Beta!).   They go on a date, end up meeting eachother's parents, end up becoming parents together, appear to have moved in together, have gotten married... they broke up briefly, but that's still much more in character then any of Fry and Leela's hangups.
Amy would never pretend she's single in front of Kif so she could flirt with some bozo whose not even her type.   (Even in PI, she and Kif were going through a rough patch, hence her flirty behaviour, but it was mostly rather innocent.)   
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #255 on: 08-16-2011 20:07 »

Quote
As long as they show what the hell is happening between the two of them,
Their robot duplicates managed to answer that question in less seconds for themselves than it takes their originals in episodes... big grin
coffeeBot

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #256 on: 08-16-2011 20:10 »

But was Leela really pretending she was single, or was she truly single?

The way Leela and Fry have been interacting in 6B makes me feel as if the writers regretted their decision to make Fry and Leela take "the leap", and they decided to just ignore that character development and go back to the point in their relationship where Fry is trying to win the un-winnable Leela. You'd think that the years of relentless pursuit of this relationship, the profession of love, and the disgusting sex would have been enough to cement the relationship, but apparently it isn't.

I'd be madder about what Leela said, but I'm so confused about whether or not anything is going on between Fry and Leela that I can't really get all that upset about it. As for the Overclockwise preview, it'll be interesting to see if they actually succeed in making Leela's leaving Fry effective emotionally when their relationship has been pretty much non-existent for a few months.
Laugh-a-loud

Bending Unit
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« Reply #257 on: 08-16-2011 20:19 »

And the conclusion is? All the questions should be, will be answered then Overclockwise airs.
coffeeBot

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #258 on: 08-16-2011 20:32 »

But I want answers NOW.  frown
Laugh-a-loud

Bending Unit
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« Reply #259 on: 08-16-2011 20:40 »

All you can get now is your own speculations and assumptions.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #260 on: 08-16-2011 21:48 »
« Last Edit on: 08-16-2011 23:40 »

To get answers right now, you'd have to kidnap Matt Groening, and no one in the Futurama Fandom is fanatical enough to....erm...oh crud.
I already can see tomorrows newspaper headlines....
leiapadme77

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #261 on: 08-17-2011 03:11 »

But was Leela really pretending she was single, or was she truly single?

The way Leela and Fry have been interacting in 6B makes me feel as if the writers regretted their decision to make Fry and Leela take "the leap", and they decided to just ignore that character development and go back to the point in their relationship where Fry is trying to win the un-winnable Leela. You'd think that the years of relentless pursuit of this relationship, the profession of love, and the disgusting sex would have been enough to cement the relationship, but apparently it isn't.

I'd be madder about what Leela said, but I'm so confused about whether or not anything is going on between Fry and Leela that I can't really get all that upset about it. As for the Overclockwise preview, it'll be interesting to see if they actually succeed in making Leela's leaving Fry effective emotionally when their relationship has been pretty much non-existent for a few months.

No, I don't think they regretted it. Because they wrote and produced the entire season at the same time, even though each half of the season aired a year apart.

I'm hoping for something like BBS or ITWGY. They make it seem like everything is going downhill for Fry and Leela, but then you find out at the end that they really do love each other and get together.
Ugh. I don't know. I guess I'm just frustrated with it. I do really think that something big will happen before the end of the season...because the season finale was originally supposed to be the next series finale, right??
spira

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #262 on: 08-17-2011 05:38 »

I'm concerned that everything that has happened in 6B so far will cancel out any potential impact Overclockwise will have. Maybe it'll have the quality of Idle Playthings, but they've essentially already shot whatever emotional storyline they're planning for it in the foot.

Leela and her damn double standards. Ugh.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
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« Reply #263 on: 08-17-2011 05:51 »

I'm concerned that everything that has happened in 6B so far will cancel out any potential impact Overclockwise will have. Maybe it'll have the quality of Idle Playthings, but they've essentially already shot whatever emotional storyline they're planning for it in the foot.

Leela and her damn double standards. Ugh.

Agreed.  Like I keep saying, by keeping Fry hopelessly pursuing Leela, it's just making her seem unlikable, since her put downs are getting crueller, and she's becoming more fickle and petty.  Right now I'm thinking jeez Fry, get over it, it's actually her loss, not yours.  Has she ever really been worth all the crap she's put you through, and now this?  Pull yourself together and find yourself a girlfriend who really likes you.  You should be more upset about letting Amy slip through your fingers when she still adored you, quite frankly.
spira

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #264 on: 08-17-2011 05:55 »

... by keeping Fry hopelessly pursuing Leela, it's just making her seem unlikable.

True that, which personally makes me sad cos I've always been a huge Leela fan, but lately she's been less of a bad-ass and more of a bitch. It's unfortunate because a lot of the universally considered strong episodes of the original run are shippy ones - we were going somewhere good, and then we just lost it.

Fry and Amy were nice that once but it would get pretty boring listening to them talk about junk and stuff all the time.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #265 on: 08-17-2011 06:20 »
« Last Edit on: 08-17-2011 06:22 »

... by keeping Fry hopelessly pursuing Leela, it's just making her seem unlikable.

True that, which personally makes me sad cos I've always been a huge Leela fan, but lately she's been less of a bad-ass and more of a bitch. It's unfortunate because a lot of the universally considered strong episodes of the original run are shippy ones - we were going somewhere good, and then we just lost it.

Fry and Amy were nice that once but it would get pretty boring listening to them talk about junk and stuff all the time.

Possibly, but Amy is actually a genius, so I think she would probably get bored of talking about junk all the time.  I can see the relationship being full of cute little quirks (like the time they learned to juggle together or playing ping pong).    If they do talk about junk all the time it would be pretty boring,  but then again it can't be as excruciatingly dull/annoying as Fry trying desperately to woo Leela and her always finding some petty reason to shoot him down in flames. 

I really want Fry and Leela to get together mainly because... while the storylines where Fry is trying to woo her always bring out the best in him, they always bring out her most negative qualities.  There are times when I just wonder: "Does this fickle, petty bitch really deserve to have an opera written about her, or to have teh guy sacrifice any chance of having his old life back to save her?  I have to admit, I liked Leela at first, but for a long period of time I hated her simply because of the way she treats Fry, and while 6A has made me like her again, 6B looks like it's going to make me dislike her again.  I think Fry should be challenged into being a better man, but not at the expense of Leela's likeability.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #266 on: 08-17-2011 06:31 »

I agree with everyone about Leela's likability, for the most part--but I'm still going to ship Fry and Leela for the time being. I think the events of "Overclockwise" (which I'm almost positive will end with Fry and Leela being together), and how they are handled in season seven, will be critical, though. If the writers pull this same bullshit in season seven that they've pulled thus far in season 6B, I'm not going to be able to take Fry, Leela, or their storyline seriously. And if I'm unable to take one of the series' main dramatic arcs seriously...well, we're gonna be in trouble.

I know the writers have really done nothing to prove themselves in the relationship-writing department...but I don't know. Call me a sucker, but I think maybe they'll right their wrongs in season seven, and finally let Fry and Leela be an unambiguous, canonical couple. The characters deserve that much already, if not the fans.
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #267 on: 08-17-2011 06:33 »

If Fry is still anything like he was in Put Your Head on My Shoulder, then Amy doesn't deserve him and would get bored of him pretty fast. True, Amy is actually a genius, which means Fry just doesn't cut it for her. They worked as a fling but long-term I just don't think they have enough to give each other.

One thing that just popped into my head that's bothered me before is that line in Love and Rocket where the robot says "my favorite thing is commitment" and Leela's like "does that guy have a brother?" I'm always all "It's FRY, you purple-haired imbecile" because if there's one thing Fry is, it's committed, or loyal, or possibly obsessed, or whatever you want to call it. He's so totally into Leela, and I wouldn't really say she's petty but she's certainly far less resolute than he is and a hell of a lot more impatient and quite probably afraid of commitment. Which, a lot of the time, just makes things not work out.

I also hold a cautious optimism that could be completely destroyed after Overclockwise.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #268 on: 08-17-2011 06:47 »

But Fry's not even committed to Leela at certain points, it seems--he's committed to this task of making her love him. "Obsessed" is probably the right word, spira; at times, Fry's single-minded desire to get Leela to fall for him is kind of creepy.

And I don't blame Leela for being put off by his behavior in certain episodes, just a smidge. I think it's a bit telling that the gestures that have affected Leela the most have been the ones Fry has done innocently, in an honest but unassuming way. Giving Leela his oxygen in "Love and Rocket," sitting at her bedside in "The Sting," and secretly helping her in "Into the Wild Green Yonder"--these were all actions motivated not by Fry's desire to make Leela love him, but by Fry's pure and undemanding love for Leela. He had no ulterior motives, you know? He loved Leela, he wanted her to be happy, and he did what he had to do to make that happen regardless of the effect it would have on Leela's feelings for him.

I don't think Leela is right to be so inconsiderate or selfish or what have you, but I do feel for her in a way: Fry's behavior towards her has ranged from stalker-ish to casual to genuinely loving, and so I don't exactly blame Leela for seemingly questioning Fry's sincerity. The audience knows he's sincere, but from Leela's point of view, he's been consistent in his love for her but inconsistent in his reasons for expressing it. If that makes any sense.
spira

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #269 on: 08-17-2011 07:05 »

That actually makes quite a lot of sense. Fry has definitely been all over the place. He's ranged from giving her a flower he happened to be holding to writing an entire opera about her (which she may or may not have deserved, but it's not like she begged for it or anything). He's confusing, and it's not like Leela's very good at relationships to begin with. Being the object of Fry's obsession has to be overwhelming occasionally.

It's also quite true that his best gestures have been the ones without ulterior motives/a "plan".
futurefreak

salutatory committee member
Moderator
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #270 on: 08-17-2011 10:44 »
« Last Edit on: 08-17-2011 10:45 »

Quote from: SpaceGoldfish fromWazn
I really want Fry and Leela to get together mainly because... while
the storylines where Fry is trying to woo her always bring out the
best in him, they always bring out her most negative qualities.
I agree with this 100%.

They need to get together, enjoy it, have it crumble, and then have Leela secretly lust for Fry. The End.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #271 on: 08-17-2011 13:49 »

Is the general consensus regarding Leela's unlikability based on her reluctance to have a relationship? Because that's kind of a lame reason to consider a person in a negative light.
any1else

Space Pope
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« Reply #272 on: 08-17-2011 14:09 »

It sounds like it's more to do with the fact that Leela (aka the writers) keep/s leading Fry (the fans) on, and then she (the writers) forget/s how loyal Fry (the fans) is (are) and he (the fans) still end/s up her (the writers') bitch.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #273 on: 08-17-2011 14:12 »

Ah.
spira

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #274 on: 08-17-2011 14:23 »

Yeah, it's not her reluctance to have a relationship, which is an understandable part of her character, it's just the way she goes about being reluctant. Which lately has not been very consistent.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #275 on: 08-17-2011 14:50 »

Leela is quite possibly my favorite character on the show, and I think in part it's precisely because I find her so maddening. Like SpaceGoldfish has said, Leela's kind of a hypocrite...but, to me, all her contradictions make her much more relatable. I do think the writers are willing to make Leela look like an indecisive, insensitive bitch if it serves the story (and, yes, usually this happens in shippy episodes)--but that's more a flaw of the writers' than anything else.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #276 on: 08-17-2011 20:50 »

Quote
Is the general consensus regarding Leela's unlikability based on her reluctance to have a relationship? Because that's kind of a lame reason to consider a person in a negative light.
Well, what I dislike about Leela in the present season 6B:

In the old seasons, Leela was a very "finely tuned" character.
The others mostly had exaggerated character traits, the writers did get away with
"over-the-top-actions" far more easily. Leela's character was more delicately balanced, and more difficult to write (as already subtle changes had great effect).


Allow me to demonstrate regarding the Episodes "Brannigan begins again" and "Möbius Dick".

Both episodes featured problems with Leela's rank as captain, in both episodes she appeared mean and bossy.  But let's look at the detail:

- When the mutiny took place in Branigang begins again, she looks as if she is about to
burst into tears when she asks wether she was not a good captain. (Not judging her own actions, but let others do so). She gets angry about the "I thought we were friends" aspect. And when it comes to disobeyed orders, she is rather
in a defensive position, explaining their necessity.
But she never accused the others or became angry regarding the mere ignoring of a command. And she took the chair only back when the other urged her to.

Means: She meant well , and appeared to the other much bossier and meaner than she really was,  or meant it. It also suited to her loneliness that time, that she managed to appear to others as a much worse person than she acutally was.

- In Möbius Dick "I'm the captain, I give the orders, and when they are ignored, I get angry and think of punishment". That's all about it. Nothing more behind it...

As I would like to repeat: Leela's character was really finely tuned, and probably extremly difficult to write in the old seasons. That complexity seems to be gone in 6B....
Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #277 on: 08-17-2011 21:01 »

Yes!  Character development never occurs.  I would suspect Leela to become more and more intolerant of her being called bossy.  But in "Möbius Dick", she is also clearly under the influence of being crazy unlike in "Brannigan, Begin Again".  I still feel Leela cares, but her fuse is a lot shorter.  Can you truly blame her?
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #278 on: 08-18-2011 04:22 »

I also think that comparing a mutiny to a big ol' four-dimensional space whale is a bit of a stretch. It makes more sense to me to compare Leela's obsessive behavior in "Mobius Dick" with her equally obsessive behavior in "The Sting." In both episodes, Leela is overzealous and selfish and single-mindedly intent on successfully completing a so-called impossible mission. I agree that her character goes a bit too far in MB, but I can forgive the writers for that because they were going for a very specific parody.

I also disagree that Leela's character was always the most well-defined and immovable. I always thought her characterization was elastic, subject to the needs of the story. She can be thoughtful and sweet in some episodes, and a total selfish bitch in others. This is particularly noticeable when you compare shippy episodes to, uh, non-shippy ones: Leela comes off as a self-centered wench in, say, "Parasites Lost"--but in "The Birdbot of Ice-Catraz," for example, she's earnestly and selflessly crusading for something she cares about. I don't believe those to be different facets of her personality, but rather one character trait (selfishness) that is exaggerated in one instance and downplayed in another. I don't consider this a fault, though, since most people are prone to such contradictions. I agree that Leela is multifaceted and complex, but I think a consequence of this complexity is her seemingly out-of-character behavior. Leela is a hypocrite, but aren't well all?
Whatawut

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #279 on: 08-18-2011 04:28 »

Quote from: Gorky
I agree that her character goes a bit too far in MB, but I can forgive the writers for that because they were going for a very specific parody.

Meh, I feel like keeping someone in character should be a priority over accomplishing an episode-wide parody that didn't add much humor. Thus, I am disappointed in what the writers did to Leela in Mobius, but forgive them because they're awesome.
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