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Author Topic: Shipping high into the sun.  (Read 38015 times)
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Frisco17

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« on: 02-28-2009 00:26 »

Since the old thread died I present to you the new ship thread.
Archonix

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« Reply #1 on: 02-28-2009 01:17 »

Reposting from elsewhere:


The ship is not dead! It's just a little confused.
Frisco17

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« Reply #2 on: 02-28-2009 04:58 »

I like the theory Arch. Never thought of that.
HipNoJoe
Bending Unit
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« Reply #3 on: 02-28-2009 06:43 »

The 'ship did not seem central to the story, but I'm glad it was there.  It would indeed have been nice to have seen a bit more attention paid to it thoughout.  I don't want to dwell on the negatives but I found the main plot less than captivating and more than a few jokes felt tired.   

The ending, however was a real bright spot.  The final moment between Fry and Leela was brief but you can't say it was fleeting.  It did not come across as sweet as the ending of Love and Rocket and it did not have the heart pounding moments of possibility like Parasites Lost, Xmas Story or Flight to Remember, but it had Leela say THE PHRASE that Fry and all shippers have been waiting to hear.  Throw in the words "all along" plus the beautiful, simple action in the waning seconds and it made for a beautiful five minute movie with about ten minutes of good comedy and an hour of filler.
coldangel

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« Reply #4 on: 02-28-2009 09:19 »

You bastards have now spoiled the movie for me. I will make it the focus of my remaining years to see that your dreams go unfulfilled. tongue
Archonix

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« Reply #5 on: 02-28-2009 11:21 »

Hey, I put it in spoiler tags. You leave my dreams alone!
Frida Waterfall

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« Reply #6 on: 03-01-2009 00:07 »

My thoughts in a non-bulleted list:

First off, ignore my avatar. I cannot seem to get it to be transparent. I'll try sometime later.

Dammit. I wanted to make the new shipper's thread. I call dibs on next time, though.

Also, Coldy, why didn't you do the wrong thing and watch the entire movie online?

R.E. To Archonix's posted theory:
A. Leela wasn't in complete denial. Complete denial takes time to expand into full-fledged denial.
B. I think the theory is true to some extent. Yes, their admission of their love does seem to be a spur of the moment like in "Xmas Story", but it does seem to still be true. If the series does return, and if that damn reset button doesn't go off again (it didn't go off for "Bender's Big Score", which is a load of bull), then I'd expect there to be some romantic relationship between the two, but I think Leela will back off at first because the moment in "Into the Wild Green Yonder" seemed like their last (unless we continue as they still believe that they're all doomed).
Frisco17

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« Reply #7 on: 03-01-2009 04:27 »
« Last Edit on: 03-01-2009 04:28 »

B. I think the theory is true to some extent. Yes, their admission of their love does seem to be a spur of the moment like in "Xmas Story", but it does seem to still be true. If the series does return, and if that damn reset button doesn't go off again (it didn't go off for "Bender's Big Score", which is a load of bull), then I'd expect there to be some romantic relationship between the two, but I think Leela will back off at first because the moment in "Into the Wild Green Yonder" seemed like their last (unless we continue as they still believe that they're all doomed).

I think that since they've created a situation where the reset button would just be rediculous that they'll just run with it. They're smart enough to realize that now that Fry and Leela are aparently going to be in a relationship that there's a lot of hilarity they can get from that.

 

Dammit. I wanted to make the new shipper's thread. I call dibs on next time, though.


I'm in the Air Force, I get to make the Air Force related puns end of story.
coldangel

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« Reply #8 on: 03-01-2009 08:41 »

Frisco, are you a pilot? I've always wanted to fly...
Frisco17

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« Reply #9 on: 03-02-2009 00:00 »

Eventually I should be. I won't actually be commisioned for four years though.
coldangel

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« Reply #10 on: 03-02-2009 00:44 »

Now I'm contemplating killing you and wearing your skin.
I fly rings around everyone on simulators, but it's just not the same. Now I've got you, Travolta, rubbing your Captain's hat in my face... I.... I.... frown
La Belle Leela

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« Reply #11 on: 03-02-2009 07:36 »

Now I'm contemplating killing you and wearing your skin.
I fly rings around everyone on simulators, but it's just not the same. Now I've got you, Travolta, rubbing your Captain's hat in my face... I.... I.... frown
That's not all he rubs in our faces!

Frisco17

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« Reply #12 on: 03-02-2009 15:42 »

HAHA, not even one page and Archonix's Law has already taken effect. I love it!
aknightofni

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« Reply #13 on: 03-02-2009 21:43 »

HAHA, not even one page and Archonix's Law has already taken effect. I love it!

Best law ever.

I was happy with the last scene to ITWGY, but still would really love to see how things went should they ever make it to the other side.
Gorky

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« Reply #14 on: 03-02-2009 23:34 »
« Last Edit on: 03-02-2009 23:36 »

I watched Devils Hands right before watching this film and paid very close attention to it. Some people seem to think that the ending meant that Leela and Fry had to get together, but I have a Whacky Theroy™ about that. Leela went into complete denial. She loved him but didn't want to love him. Taking the last line she says to him, that she waited too long to say she loved him, means that she's had those feelings for a long time but refused to acknowledge them.

I actually really like that theory, Archonix--not so wacky at all. But it does bring up the point of whether or not the ending of Devil's Hands was ret-conned in BBS; I think the general feeling 'round these parts is that, yeah, it was. But I think the only reason it seems like a ret-con is because, watching Devil's Hands five years ago--knowing it was the series finale, figuring we'd never see the PE crew again--we chose to believe that, like you say, Fry and Leela had to get together. But, really, there's nothing so special about the end of Devil's Hands: it's a sweet and ambiguous ending that's similar to the endings of a lot of other season four episodes. "The Why of Fry", "The Sting", and "The Farnsworth Parabox" all end with supposed progress in Fry and Leela's relationship--progress that is completely forgotten in subsequent episodes. I think that, if Devil's Hands had fallen in the middle of season four, we wouldn't have really expected Fry and Leela to start dating. I mean, that kiss at the end of the episode is telling, but I think that, had the show been renewed for a true season five in '03, the writers would have ignored the ending, and we wouldn't have gotten so upset about the quasi-ret-con. It just would've been another example of the writers wussing out on giving us an actual Fry/Leela romance.

As for the ending of ItWGY: I think Matt Groening's insistence that Fry and Leela say the "I love you"s and do the smoochin' can mean one of two things: either the writers are pretty sure that the show's not coming back, so they really had nothing to lose (and at least they ended on a sweet, somewhat conclusive note); or, they think the show might come back, and they're finally ready to confront the ship head-on. I'm kind of hoping that it's the second thought-process goin' on there.
La Belle Leela

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« Reply #15 on: 03-03-2009 06:53 »
« Last Edit on: 03-03-2009 06:54 »


As for the ending of ItWGY: I think Matt Groening's insistence that Fry and Leela say the "I love you"s and do the smoochin' can mean one of two things: either the writers are pretty sure that the show's not coming back, so they really had nothing to lose (and at least they ended on a sweet, somewhat conclusive note); or, they think the show might come back, and they're finally ready to confront the ship head-on. I'm kind of hoping that it's the second thought-process goin' on there.

My interpretation of the ending is that they've reconciled their friendship, but in a way that gives something to leave the series open for something more. On the other hand, it also gives a bit of closure if the (God forbid) series would not be coming back.

So I view it as Matt, DXC, & the writers simply hedging their bets.
THM

Bending Unit
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« Reply #16 on: 03-04-2009 00:17 »
« Last Edit on: 03-04-2009 00:32 »

So I view it as Matt, DXC, & the writers simply hedging their bets.

Could be. After all, it wouldn't be the first time, would it? smile

The optimist in me says no, however. So does the writer and pragmatist. They've gone as far as they can go with the 'will they, won't they' dynamic - to show up with the next 'movie' or a new TV series and say 'Sorry, but it was just a stress-induced kiss; back to status quo', the cry of frustration you'd hear would be coming from not only Leela/Fry shippers, but legions of fans that, while not supporters of the ship, just want to move on. There are other characters and situations to explore, and even together, well, the 'course of true love never did run smooth', as the man says. There's the Rachel/Ross way of doing things, after all.

Really, they've gone as far as they can with 'almost'. Time to give 'yes' a try. smile


'Naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies!'

- Justice Snoop Dogg, Into the Wild Green Yonder
Frisco17

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« Reply #17 on: 03-04-2009 00:50 »

I just realized that my old signature picture with the caption "I choose to believe what I was programmed to believe" no longer applies. As much as I enjoyed being able to internet yell that, it's time to move on and thus.....

"For me, there is only one eighties."
HipNoJoe
Bending Unit
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« Reply #18 on: 03-04-2009 03:41 »

The commentary is pretty explicit that the ending is a hedge; not that the relationship could go either way from here, but that the series could continue or that it could end here with no loose ends. 

The "Devil's Hands" ending seemed like a watershed moment but there was no mistaking that the Green Yonder ending truly is a breakthrough.  If we do see them come out the other end of the worm hole, Leela won't be able to deny what she said and did.  The acknowledgment that she waited too long seals the deal.  She can't claim that is was a moment of weakness.  She willingly clasps his hand, she gazes lovingly and longingly at him and she participates passionately in the kiss.

There, I've conviced myself that they are together and the only question is whether it will last or not, or perhaps the only question is whether this is "happily every after" or the start of a hot and cold romance that ultimately becomes "happily ever after."
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #19 on: 03-04-2009 04:27 »
« Last Edit on: 03-04-2009 04:37 »

Really, they've gone as far as they can with 'almost'. Time to give 'yes' a try. smile

Word. I'm not sure I've ever seen a show go a good ten years (albeit, four of 'em weren't on-screen) without resolving the main will-they-or-won't-they ship. If the writers chose to ignore the ending of ItWGY (and I don't think they would), then they'd be entering into some serious Charlie Brown/Little Red-Haired Girl unrequited love territory. And that would just be ridiculous (especially when you take Leela's admission of love into account).

The "Devil's Hands" ending seemed like a watershed moment but there was no mistaking that the Green Yonder ending truly is a breakthrough.  If we do see them come out the other end of the worm hole, Leela won't be able to deny what she said and did.  The acknowledgment that she waited too long seals the deal.  She can't claim that is was a moment of weakness.  She willingly clasps his hand, she gazes lovingly and longingly at him and she participates passionately in the kiss.

There, I've conviced myself that they are together and the only question is whether it will last or not, or perhaps the only question is whether this is "happily every after" or the start of a hot and cold romance that ultimately becomes "happily ever after."

Several points of order (of varying degrees of relevance) :

1.) I absolutely adore the loving-and-longing look Leela gives Fry. Also the way she says "Like what?" when Fry tells her there are so many things he wanted to say to her. She's so gentle and sweet with him.

2.) If the writers choose to wimp out again, I can't see Leela blaming the ILY on a moment of weakness. I actually can't see her denying its significance at all. For one thing, it makes her look like a schizoid bitch; for another, it ignores the complete sincerity of the moment--no way in hell Leela was feigning that affection. If the writers chose not to persue the ship, they'd probably use some excuse about Leela not being ready for a relationship, or being scared, or something else like that. I don't think there's any way they could actually have her claim she more or less lied about loving Fry.

3.) If Fry and Leela entered a serious romantic relationship, I think the writers would play it sweet (much like they played Fry's pursuit of Leela). I can't see the two of them in a relationship fraught with love-hate drama. I think they'd be a pretty devoted couple.   
Frisco17

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« Reply #20 on: 03-04-2009 15:45 »

3.) If Fry and Leela entered a serious romantic relationship, I think the writers would play it sweet (much like they played Fry's pursuit of Leela). I can't see the two of them in a relationship fraught with love-hate drama. I think they'd be a pretty devoted couple.   

I mostly agree with that but I'll bet that they'd still find things to argue about. There's a huge list of little problems that could come up and lead directly to hilarity.
Curious Gorge

Bending Unit
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« Reply #21 on: 03-04-2009 18:18 »

As odd as it sounds if they want the show to REALLY work with Fry and Leela together the best thing to do would be not to make that big a thing of it for the majority of the time. The odd comment in passing, a few subtle visuals and it being alluded to would be enough for most of the episodes. They'd still quite right have to make it the focus of a few episodes but providing they don't over cook it (which I don't think they will) the show would still be as awesome as ever.

Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #22 on: 03-04-2009 23:18 »
« Last Edit on: 03-04-2009 23:20 »

I mostly agree with that but I'll bet that they'd still find things to argue about. There's a huge list of little problems that could come up and lead directly to hilarity.

Oh, definitely. I just meant that I couldn't see them having a tempestuous relationship. They've got some personality traits that caused them to clash as friends, and would certainly cause them to clash as partners. That's the kind of conflict I wouldn't mind because, like you said, it would be pretty damn funny.

 
As odd as it sounds if they want the show to REALLY work with Fry and Leela together the best thing to do would be not to make that big a thing of it for the majority of the time. The odd comment in passing, a few subtle visuals and it being alluded to would be enough for most of the episodes. They'd still quite right have to make it the focus of a few episodes but providing they don't over cook it (which I don't think they will) the show would still be as awesome as ever.

Agreed. I'm a pretty shameless shipper, but even I don't want the writers to dwell on the fact that Fry and Leela are dating. The occasional smooch or hand-hold would be enough for me. I think the formula established in ItWGY--where the ship plays a role, but it's not the focus of the story--would work for the episodes that are meant to be overtly romantic. Futurama was never about devoting episodes entirely to the Fry/Leela love-fest, anyway--even an episode like "The Sting" has a lot of stuff with the rest of the PE crew. And "Time Keeps on Slipping"--which is, IMO, the shippiest episode of the series--has all that Globetrotter stuff going on, in addition to the love story. It's all a balancing act, and I think the writers have mastered it by now.
speedracer
Bending Unit
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« Reply #23 on: 03-05-2009 00:42 »

1.) I absolutely adore the loving-and-longing look Leela gives Fry. Also the way she says "Like what?" when Fry tells her there are so many things he wanted to say to her. She's so gentle and sweet with him.


I really like this picture.  It's tricky to draw upper facial expressions for a person with one eye.
coldangel

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« Reply #24 on: 03-05-2009 04:00 »

Just saw the movie. Good ending. If a new series/movie is made they can now take a Lost in Space angle with the PE crew stranded in some uncharted part of the Universe, on the run from the law and inadvertently becoming embroiled in planetary conflicts while Fry and Leela start their romantic relationship. It has potential.
Frisco17

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« Reply #25 on: 03-05-2009 04:18 »

Now see that's exactly what I was thinking and it would be unspeakably epic. I don't totally discount the possibility of that happening on the grounds of it being a "continuos story" though. What are the moveis chopped up into multiple episodes if not a continuos story?
coldangel

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« Reply #26 on: 03-05-2009 07:20 »

Or perhaps the new movie/series will open with the wormhole disgorging the PE ship directly into the billboard of the opening credits.
Frisco17

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« Reply #27 on: 03-05-2009 17:15 »

Brilliant!
Archonix

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« Reply #28 on: 03-05-2009 19:08 »

That would be excellent. big grin

So. to the hip , and I agree that the best way to handle it now is to treat it as if it's just there rather than making a big deal out of it. The sort of obnoxious focusing on "relationship issues" that I hate in so many sitcoms has no place in Futurama. Unless it's written well. Then I don't mind...
Frida Waterfall

Professor
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« Reply #29 on: 03-06-2009 01:18 »
« Last Edit on: 03-06-2009 01:23 »

http://io9.com/5165221/if-futurama-comes-back-whats-next-for-planet-express

Interesting article for interesting shippers...

Quote
Would you say that Fry and Leela are destined to be together?

We dropped a line in the series that suggest that Fry and Leela have some kind of destiny together, and that's an area that I would want to get back into. There are still some of the backstory to their characters that I would like to explore, if we came back to life.

What about kids? Do you think they could ever have children together, in a possible future?

Anything is possible. I'm not giving away all of the story here. One thing we want to be careful of is, to not add the crying baby to the show. There's a danger of if we had a baby around the show, the show would have to stay at home. And we think Simpsons kind of covers that territory well. Or they will keep flying around, and be the worst parents in the world. I'm not ruling it out, but what I'm saying is, if they do have offspring it will be with a scifi twist.
Frisco17

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« Reply #30 on: 03-06-2009 01:33 »

Gorky posted a similar article in the ITWGY thread.

Quote
As the series draws to a (temporary) close, we wonder if we've learned the entirety of Fry's origin story and how he came to be in the year 3000. Not to worry, Cohen assures that he is not finished with that tale quite yet. When asked how much of it was left—after the Nibblonian saga was finished and the "Lars" adventure in the first DVD movie—he responded that there is "one sentence," uttered in the series that was left unaddressed. But it's up to superfans to figure out which sentence, not to mention which episode, he is referring to.

That one took me all of about .0003 seconds to figure out.
coldangel

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« Reply #31 on: 03-06-2009 01:41 »

the best way to handle it now is to treat it as if it's just there rather than making a big deal out of it. The sort of obnoxious focusing on "relationship issues" that I hate in so many sitcoms has no place in Futurama. Unless it's written well. Then I don't mind...

^That thing you said, that's what I'm thinking. If they dwell on it too heavily it'll make people throw up, but if they ignore it completely then people will feel cheated. It has to be played in the background.
Gorky

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« Reply #32 on: 03-06-2009 04:24 »

Thanks for the article, Frida. I've gotta say, every interview we get--especially the ones with DXC, because, well, I love him--makes me ridiculously excited and hopeful. I think I need professional help.

As far as Fry and Leela's destiny goes, I'd have even more respect for the writers if they actually followed through with this "other" business. It's got too much potential to just be a throw-away. Not that it should be the focus of the show or anything (coldangel summed that up pretty well), but I would love to get more into the backstories of both characters (particularly Leela).

Also (and this might be a really anti-shippy thing to say), if Fry and Leela ever had a baby, I'd probably stop caring about their relationship. Ditto if they got married, like, instantly. I'm not one for the short courtship--even if it takes the characters ten years to hook up proper--or the Little Bundle of Joy. What makes the relationship so compelling is that they're two well-defined individuals, coming together out of, you know, love and stuff. Thowing a baby into the mix, or a quickie marriage, will just screw up the dynamic and come off as really trite. Just my opinion, though.
coldangel

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« Reply #33 on: 03-06-2009 05:23 »

Leela giving birth to Fry's kid could be used as the final final finale when the series is really ready to end for real. As the child of the Mighty One and The Other, it could be the object of some prophesy or other, and dark forces (like the resurrected Brainspawn, why not?) may seek to prevent it being born. There's a good story for free.
Frisco17

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« Reply #34 on: 03-06-2009 06:03 »

I've heard that one before but I forget where.
coldangel

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« Reply #35 on: 03-06-2009 06:13 »

I don't care, it's mine now.
any1else

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« Reply #36 on: 03-06-2009 10:36 »

Sounds like Supersoldiers wanting William dead/to take him as their own...you stole it from X Files!

I still don't like how their relationship wasn't built up across all four movies. Maybe if The Wild Green Yonder had been the only Futurama related thing ever made and you see these two characters have odd moments throughout the film to then become a couple at the end it would make sense. But knowing Futurama as a long-running show (kinda..if you watch the dvds over and over smile ) you get to know these two characters, so much time was spent giving them special moments that it doesn't give them justice to be thrown together right at the end. I know people have said that after a 'shippy' episode the next episode seemed to have forgotten about it, but there were moments dispersed throughout episodes of the seasons.

Once or twice in the two preceeding movies Bender might have made a reference to them being an item...otherwise they didn't seem interested in each other. Seems like a bit of a cop out.
"Wait, didn't we indicate that something was developing between Fry and Leela a couple of years ago?"
"Oh yeah. Shit. Quick, just write it in here, here, and right at the end. Great. Okay, done."
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #37 on: 03-06-2009 12:09 »

From the way it developed I'm pretty sure WGY was the movie they had planned out when they went to talk to Fox about making these movies. The other three were thrown together to satisfy the four movie deal they ended up with. Take this one in isolation and, whilst the love story doesn't develop as well as we'd like, it does at least do something and it doesn't just come out of nowhere, which it would seem to after three movies where it's either not mentioned or completely mishandled.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #38 on: 03-06-2009 12:48 »
« Last Edit on: 03-06-2009 12:49 »

Reposting this from here, 'cause I think it applies:

I found kind of an analogue to the Fry/Leela relationship in ItWGY within the series. One of my favorite episodes is "Insane in the Mainframe", because it's funny and it's got some pathos and there's just the right amount of ship. In that episode, Leela is clearly concerned for Fry's safety, and she treats him with affection--hand-holdin', lip-lockin', cheek-kissin', chest-huggin', hair-flippin'. She takes on the Devastated Girlfriend role, trying to "remind Fry of his humanity" and whatnot; at the end of the episode, she expresses her gratitude to him and kisses him on the cheek. It's not over-the-top, or disconcerting; it's just kind of her accepted attitude towards Fry. I think that's how her feelings towards him are portrayed in ItWGY, just a tad bit more extremely. I mean, if you think about it, her treatment of Fry in this movie is only jarring in relation to TBWABB and BG; disregarding those two movies, it makes sense that she'd be feeling closer to Fry after the events of BBS--after all, he is the only man Leela ever loved.

To build on that, there are eight episodes between the end of BBS and the beginning of ItWGY, right? Looking at the series (in terms of production order, not air-date), two of what I consider the Major Shippy Episodes are pretty far apart. "Parasites Lost" and "Time Keeps on Slipping" are twelve episodes away from each other; in that interim, nothing of truly shippy import occurs (we've got "The Cyberhouse Rules" and "Insane in the Mainframe", but neither of those episodes really relies on the ship). Also, "I Dated a Robot"--which comes right after TKOS--completely ignores the shippy developments, and actually has Fry falling for another, er, thing. It's like the BWaBB of the series. And it's followed by four episodes ("A Leela of Her Own", "A Pharaoh to Remember", "Anthology of Interest II", and "Roswell That Ends Well") that do nothing to advance the ship. Actually, nothing in season three, after TKOS, does a thing for the Fry and Leela quasi-romance.

In season four, granted, the shippier episodes tended to pop up more frequently, so I can see why the tonal changes in the movies are so jarring. But, from a creative standpoint, I can also see why the writers 1.) didn't want to start the movies off with Fry and Leela already in a relationship and 2.) didn't want to devote all four movies to the development of said relationship. You lose a lot of story possibilities--and risk alienating those unfamiliar with the show--if you throw in a lot of exposition as to how, exactly, the romantic relationship between Fry and Leela progressed after TDHaIP. The writers' solution (which I only vaguely agree with), of course, is that there was no relationship.

I'd also argue that the Lars thing was necessary to both enhance the ship and give it some momentum (and it actually got the "Fry and Leela are Meant to Be" thing across much more effectively than a simple "Oh, they fell in love after Devil's Hands and it was rockin' and all, but you don't get to see that relationship develop or anything" would have). I was watching the end of BBS last night, when it occured to me that the writers could've revealed Lars's identity to the viewer (and to Fry), but not to Leela, kind of like the message in the stars thing from TKOS. But the fact that Leela learns that the man she loved was Fry, really does allow the writers to drive the point home that these characters are destined to be together...and Leela's finally beginning to see that. I actually think that, when you watch it knowing that Lars is Fry, BBS is the shippiest thing we've ever gotten.

(Oh, and I like that theory, Archonix. I've never really thought about it, but it makes sense that ItWGY is the movie they would've made if they'd only been given a deal for one film.)
speedracer
Bending Unit
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« Reply #39 on: 03-06-2009 13:57 »

Also (and this might be a really anti-shippy thing to say), if Fry and Leela ever had a baby, I'd probably stop caring about their relationship. Ditto if they got married, like, instantly. I'm not one for the short courtship--even if it takes the characters ten years to hook up proper--or the Little Bundle of Joy. What makes the relationship so compelling is that they're two well-defined individuals, coming together out of, you know, love and stuff. Thowing a baby into the mix, or a quickie marriage, will just screw up the dynamic and come off as really trite. Just my opinion, though.

I don't think the problem is that the relationship would cease to be compelling/interesting so much as the fact that it would make the show more domestic, which is a little bit out of Futurama's element.
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