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Author Topic: Ship Trek: Deep Thread Nine  (Read 38214 times)
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Archonix

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« Reply #560 on: 08-16-2008 10:20 »

I knew there was a reason for the Deep Thread Nine thing...

I mean, apart from the Star Trek ref and the number nine...
Frisco17

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« Reply #561 on: 08-16-2008 23:02 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Torgo:
This thread is deep.

I like discussions like this.   big grin


This is tame by comparison. You should have seen it a few years ago. You could frigging drown in it!
La Belle Leela

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« Reply #562 on: 08-17-2008 18:12 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frisco17:
 This is tame by comparison. You should have seen it a few years ago. You could frigging drown in it!

I'll have to romp through the archives some night, when I'm not busy. :threadgravedigger

  big grin

km73

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« Reply #563 on: 08-17-2008 18:26 »

I call it thread-spelunking...

Technically I believe these threads only started sometime around the fall of 2006; while I haven't read all of them myself, I know that when I first discovered PEEL in March 07 I used to enjoy dipping into them. I only ever had limited time back then, but I found them fairly.. informative.
Xanfor

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« Reply #564 on: 08-17-2008 18:37 »

All righty, here ya go, the most shippy threads made ever since I joined...

The Intelligent, Long-Winded Shipper Disscussion Thread (For All My Friends!)
The Loooovenasium (Or, the Intelligent, Long-Winded Shipper Thread, Part II)
Deep Down: Fry and Leela Soul Searching (Semi-Official Shippers' Thread 2.5)*
The Shipper Thread Version III-Ship Harder!
Once More, Into the Deep: or, I love Futurama, it goes so well with my soul... (Semi-Official Shippers' Thread 3.5)
Shippers Keep on Shippin'! ThreadIV
We Ship for Free Anywhere In the Galaxy! Shipper Thread V
‘The Shipping News’, the Colditzer_1 Prize-winning thread by jlE. Xannie Archoulx
PEEL Shipping Statute 437-B
Ship Trek: Deep Thread Nine


And to exclusively chronicle the official shippy threads, we have for your amusement this list of official page links:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154

Enjoy!

aknightofni

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« Reply #565 on: 08-17-2008 20:32 »

That is an impressive list, nice work Xanfor!
winna

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« Reply #566 on: 08-17-2008 20:40 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by km73:
I call it thread-spelunking...

Technically I believe these threads only started sometime around the fall of 2006; while I haven't read all of them myself, I know that when I first discovered PEEL in March 07 I used to enjoy dipping into them. I only ever had limited time back then, but I found them fairly.. informative.

I could be wrong, but I recall discussing character relationships a long long time ago.... maybe they weren't as shippy... and maybe my memories are fuzzy.... and as I said I could be wrong completely.
km73

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« Reply #567 on: 08-17-2008 21:07 »

No, you're probably not wrong, I just meant the ones Xanfor refers to as "official" threads.

While I'm at it:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
In writing, characterization should be fairly easy.

It's only easy if it happens to come naturally... if one does it 'by feel'. If you have such a good grasp of certain characters that you hardly have to think about it much at all.

Frisco17

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« Reply #568 on: 08-17-2008 21:53 »

Impressive list Xanfor, most impressive. You forgot the "Evil Conspiracy Against Pedro" thread though.
Venus

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« Reply #569 on: 08-18-2008 02:06 »

Oh man, i remember those early threads. We got pretty indepth. To a very nerdy degree.
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #570 on: 08-18-2008 03:16 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:

Oh man, i remember those early threads. We got pretty indepth. To a very nerdy degree.

Perhaps, but I remember having a lot of fun with you, Shiny and a few others discussing nerdy things.

Xanfor

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« Reply #571 on: 08-18-2008 15:11 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frisco17:
Impressive list Xanfor, most impressive. You forgot the "Evil Conspiracy Against Pedro" thread though.

Do'h! >.<

That was my favourite title, too!

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
Oh man, i remember those early threads. We got pretty indepth. To a very nerdy degree.

Did I ever apologise for being so jerky back then? I was going through an extremely tumultuous time... And I fear I consistently came off as extremely annoying and abrasive...
Archonix

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« Reply #572 on: 08-18-2008 17:57 »

Like Ralph?

Sorry Ralph, please don't hit me again!
Frida Waterfall

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« Reply #573 on: 08-18-2008 18:19 »

When I was a stalker, I used to tune into the shipping threads every visit starting with the Lovenasium (thread 2). I wish I would've joined earlier, then I could've been able to discuss and argue with Shiny.
hobbitboy

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« Reply #574 on: 08-18-2008 20:41 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
When I was a stalker...
Were you fixated on a specific individual (if so, was it someone famous) or would you go after anyone who was unfortunate enough to 'catch your eye' (as it were)?

Don't hate me, Trinity.  I'm just the messenger.
Frisco17

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« Reply #575 on: 08-18-2008 22:43 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
That was my favourite title, too!

Same here, that's why I remembered it.
Archonix

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« Reply #576 on: 08-19-2008 05:47 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by hobbitboy:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
When I was a stalker...
Were you fixated on a specific individual (if so, was it someone famous) or would you go after anyone who was unfortunate enough to 'catch your eye' (as it were)?


I'm thinking she meant lurker. That, or she was stalking Shiny. One of the two.  smile

Frida Waterfall

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« Reply #577 on: 08-19-2008 09:22 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Archonix:
 I'm thinking she meant lurker.

Yeah. I just can never think of the word "lurker" from time to time and use the word "stalker". Besides, "stalker" sounds more obsessed.
winna

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« Reply #578 on: 08-19-2008 09:25 »

I've been known to stalklurk this place pretty obsessively from time to time myself....
Frida Waterfall

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« Reply #579 on: 08-19-2008 13:17 »

You're not really lurking and/or/whatever stalking if you're already a member. Then you're just browsing.
winna

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« Reply #580 on: 08-19-2008 14:09 »

What if I have another account I plan to create.... can he be stalklurking before she joins?
Archonix

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« Reply #581 on: 08-19-2008 14:12 »

You mean another to add to the 1700 you already have, winna?
Frisco17

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« Reply #582 on: 08-19-2008 22:55 »

The is no such thing as fake acounts Archonix. Silly naive Archonix.

He knows to much.
Archonix

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« Reply #583 on: 08-20-2008 04:52 »

You're one of them!
Frisco17

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« Reply #584 on: 08-20-2008 10:54 »

Join us Archonix. You'll love the fake accounts.
winna

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« Reply #585 on: 08-20-2008 11:56 »

Yes... join the collective Archonix... you know you want to!  Search your feelings... you know it to be true...
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #586 on: 08-20-2008 12:10 »

There are four lights!
Frida Waterfall

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« Reply #587 on: 08-20-2008 19:56 »

Xanfor brought one of these old-school complaints up on the "Change One Thing in Futurama" thread on General Discussion, and I just had to translate it over here to see what PEELers will say now after watching the first two new Futurama movies out of a four movie set.

"Do you think it would be healthy for the show to put Fry and Leela in a steady relationship?"

Yes... the age-old question has been revived again.
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #588 on: 08-20-2008 21:09 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:

"Do you think it would be healthy for the show to put Fry and Leela in a steady relationship?"

Yes... the age-old question has been revived again.

Yes, it would open up all sorts of new interpersonal arcs.  Jealousy.  Dominant partner.  Concern for the other whenever danger presents itself.  All kinds of new scenarios.

Leela's the higher ranking person at work.  Will she have the same attitude towards Fry at home?  The conflicting personalities - Fry the slob and Leela the neat-freak.  Would having sex with Leela be like making it with a Klingon chick?  (Leela loves violence so much, I have all idea she would be a little freaky in the sex department.)

That's my opinion.

winna

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« Reply #589 on: 08-20-2008 22:22 »

It could work... for awhile maybe... for all the reasons that Ralph stated.

But how long does that last before they run out of material in that department?  Secondly.. sitcoms (other television shows follow this rule too) do not have the main characters get together live happily ever after style; it kills the show, plain and simple.  In a lot of ways, these shows thrive off of sexual tension, and the fans don't see the show in the same way anymore.

At this point, Futurama could be an exception.  The show has already seemingly jumped the shark by being cancelled and coming out straight to dvd fiasco style.  It's possible that if it continues living, even thriving, that normal television rules no longer apply to the show. 

There's also another issue here as well... Shows like this generally thrive on younger characters... younger characters are full of life, and most audiences can relate to younger characters better (how many of you watched Golden Girls?).  Part of having young characters means you can inject fresh blood into the show... via new love interests; Futurama is splattered with examples -> Umbriel, Morgan Proctor, Adelaide, Zapp Brannigan, the Mayor's Aide...  there's actually more, but you get the idea.  So far only 3 main characters have been able to really use this avenue -> Amy, Fry, and Leela.  Amy was mostly for throw away slut gags, but they've already changed her dynamic.... and up until BwaBB, I really wasn't happy with the Amy + Kif thing... now, at least to me, they've proven they can work with that element.

Overall.... I'm going to throw this in the maybe bin... because Futurama already breaks the rules.  What's more problematic in my mind to the show's continued survival is whether the writers can get into the swing of things.  By the time they were producing season 4, their misses were getting farther... see Less Than Hero, although not a bad episode, it felt gimmicky and at times the plot seemed unstable, like they pulled the idea out of a Simpsons table read.  And we don't even have to get into the little details that some of us had against the movies.  I'm still going to say I haven't seen a bad episode of Futurama yet, but for survival purposes, I think we're shooting for A's and B's here.
km73

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« Reply #590 on: 08-20-2008 22:45 »
« Last Edit on: 08-20-2008 22:45 »

That's quite true about Amy; they've already put her into a steady relationship. (Although now they may have [temporarily] dissolved it).

You know what, to answer the question, and since it's succinctly articulated, I'm just going to quote an old post of Sine Wave's from 9-29-07 that I came across thanks to those shipper-thread links above. It fits/states my position also.

 
Quote
If I may, I'd like to extrapolate a little on the notion that Fry and Leela shouldn't be together until the end of the series. [...] If Fry and Leela [...] go past just dating, any 'progress' will not be towards a higher end, but merely maintaining the status quo after he goofs up or something. Hardly as rewarding an action to observe. This would also essentially change the relationship entirely, shifting Fry from someone who would never hurt Leela to someone that manages to hurt her on a regular basis for the necessity of keeping things interesting. Basically, you'd have Homer Simpson instead of Fry.

I have to say that's pretty much my opinion as well.

(Though other good points have been raised).
winna

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« Reply #591 on: 08-21-2008 01:53 »

I'm also going to state that I don't think Leela is the violent kinky sexual type.  To me, she seems more like the women that wants somebody to hold and cuddle with. 

She can get violent, and has a strong physical prowess about her.  However, she uses violences as a necessity and last resort, rather than gaining some sort of sensual pleasure from it.  She has studied martial arts, but I see that as a stress outlet from her childhood.  I don't think she's into slamming into walls and choking eachother as foreplay... if you ask me, Amy fits that bill to me more. 

This is not to say Leela won't get kinky in the bedroom... everyone needs to spice it up once in awhile, but I'm suggesting that that behavior isn't a staple for satisfying her sexual wants and needs.
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #592 on: 08-21-2008 04:20 »

Most of what's been mentioned would only bea problem with the relationship bcame the be-all and end-all of the show. ILke in Friends (which I hate) the relationship between Chandler and, when it happened, became then thing the show revolved around for nearly a season and a half, with references in just about every episode that wasn't dealing with it as a major plot. It gets stale when you focus on something like that to the exclusion of everything else.

Contrary to what TVland thinks, putting peple into a relationship doesn't automatically make them unchanging rocks of stability. All sorts of shit happens - and I'm not talking about the standard relationship issues that always crop up (The Affair, The Stale Sex/Emotional Life, The Kids and The Visiting In-Laws). A relationship is an adventure and a foundation to move onto greater things. A relationship doesn't change who you are, it simply adds aspects of the other side to your own.

Essentially the portrayal of a relationship would only be a problem if, as in so much fanfic, it turned into the Standard Relationship with Standard Nicknames and Standard Four Plots.
winna

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« Reply #593 on: 08-21-2008 08:29 »

That's all true and well.  That doesn't detract from my the sexual tension point I brought up though, which is a big factor in television series'.

It's why the McNeal couldn't get married, because it was a major focus of the show. 
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #594 on: 08-21-2008 08:51 »

That can still be there. The fact that they're in an authority relationship at work would bring up plenty of other tensions too, that would put a strain on their relationship. But, like I said, the point would be to not make it the sole focus of the show. They don't have to become the married couple stereotype.
Xanfor

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« Reply #595 on: 08-21-2008 12:28 »

Everyone seems to be assuming that either the tension will disappear or that I was referring to was marriage. In actuality I meant neither.

For one, even if they do end up in a relationship, even if they do end up sleeping with each other... Leela may remain content in that position, after all, they're with each other most of the day already (not counting the times when they're together when they don't have to be), they get along most of the time, and it would be a start and something stable for her to rely upon. But Fry... Unlike his experience with other women, he is wanting more from this... He actually loves her deeply, and face it, the tension between them will no longer need be sexual. He wants her hand, and doesn't want to settle for anything less. That tension will still be there. The writers could go for making it like every other show on TV does... They fall in love during their first sexual encounter, and both eventually (usually within the same episode) come to feel the same way about each other. But that would be a waste to the potential they have as of it being where it is today. That would be like Russell T. Davies tossing aside forty-five years of buildup on the Doctor's avuncular nature and turning him into just another straight guy on television.

Wait a second... Smeg!

At any rate, this is, of course, all assuming that Fry hasn't gotten over her and moved on with his life.
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #596 on: 08-21-2008 12:31 »

That's kind of what I was trying to get at, in my usual impenetrable way.  big grin I mean, Star Trek managed to stretch the Troi+Riker thing over nearly a decade with a sort of on-again-off-again tension between them. Granted, that's not the best example...
km73

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« Reply #597 on: 08-21-2008 16:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by winna:
 What's more problematic in my mind to the show's continued survival is whether the writers can get into the swing of things.  By the time they were producing season 4, their misses were getting farther... see Less Than Hero, although not a bad episode, it felt gimmicky and at times the plot seemed unstable, like they pulled the idea out of a Simpsons table read.  And we don't even have to get into the little details that some of us had against the movies.  I'm still going to say I haven't seen a bad episode of Futurama yet, but for survival purposes, I think we're shooting for A's and B's here.

I wanted to touch on this... would vaguely agree about misses getting a little more prominent by season 4, but to me not Less Than Hero.. see, I guess to me any real criticisms of most of the original episodes is nitpicking, because there were really very few that I had any problems with, and not most of the ones that seem to be the most universally picked on by others - e.g., That's Lobstertainment, Route of All Evil, BSNBAOTV, etc. Enjoyed all of those. Some of the ones I do have more of a problem with tend to be unconventional - for two, Roswell and Devil's Hands. (My least favorite remain ALOHO and CW though, but even those seem better now compared to the movies, really). But anyway, the point is that I am pretty critical of the movies, and dislike the apologist attitude that many people are having towards them - oh, they were away for 4 years, the writers are rusty, they want to try to please new fans, etc. Fine, but the fact remains that the films could have been far better. So I think that's right about needing to shoot for As and Bs (or A minus-minuses) to get the show back as a series; especially if it's to be worth watching if it does come back.

And, noo, somehow I doubt that Fry has gotten over her and moved on with his life.
Probably not what they mean by "resolution" that's supposed to come in Wild Green Yonder.

winna

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« Reply #598 on: 08-21-2008 20:38 »

These sorts of television series are based in the realm of sex.  It's that build up toward getting there that's the most interesting... Most people say they want romantic, but people get tired of seeing that over and over... seeing a single isolated incident is more relative to most people... seeing what a relationship day to day is not what most people fantasize about. 

TNG wasn't exactly a show built needing sexual tension... it was about aliens and space or something as I recall.... Futurama is more of a sitcom... sitcoms, short of the ones with already married couples, usually need this to fuel themselves. 

We could talk about how JD and Elliot (Scrubs) are immoral immature with their sexual experiences, but they have to be so the show can introduce hot new one off characters each week.  Similar idea...

The thing here is that a lot of you want Fry & Leela to be together... bad enough that you've made yourself believe they are meant for eachother and that there is no other logical resolution than the two of them being together forever.  They're only fictional characters, even if we want to transplant our own fantasies onto them... and even if they were real, that's not how real life works; it's not a simple answer of two particular people should be together just cause.... and what you fail to realize is that the happy ending you expect is heart crushing.  As a saying I once heard goes: "All happy endings are just stories that haven't finished yet."
Frisco17

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« Reply #599 on: 08-21-2008 22:22 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Ralph Snart:
 Yes, it would open up all sorts of new interpersonal arcs.  Jealousy.  Dominant partner.  Concern for the other whenever danger presents itself.  All kinds of new scenarios.

I completely agree with Ralph here. It creates tons of new hilarious possibilities. This is essentially what I've always been saying. I like the revival of the long winded discussion but I've talked about this particular matter around five times and don't feel like writing it all up again. I'll look for my old post on the subject later.
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