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Author Topic: Ship Trek: Deep Thread Nine  (Read 39584 times)
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Sine Wave

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #480 on: 07-28-2008 22:25 »

After a good night's sleep I retract my previous statement, in favor of stating he looks like he's lost his happy-go-lucky demeanor, as with the other movie covers. All running away in fear instead of just taking what life gives him with a grin and the occasional insertion of a foreign object.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #481 on: 07-28-2008 22:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by ALequalsGREAT:

As usual, the cover is an homage to old horror posters. The running joke places Leela as the strong hero (typical male character) and Fry as the helpless (hapless?) woman. Pretty much like the show has always been....
Don't you think?

I prefer my damsels helpless and in a tower.
km73

Space Pope
****
« Reply #482 on: 07-28-2008 23:37 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Sine Wave:
After a good night's sleep I retract my previous statement, in favor of stating he looks like he's lost his happy-go-lucky demeanor, as with the other movie covers. All running away in fear instead of just taking what life gives him with a grin and the occasional insertion of a foreign object.

Hmmm, that's good, but I liked your "...unsubstantiated interpretations and connections" explication too...   tongue

Anyhow, yeah, I know what you mean - it's sort of like what the movies themselves are doing to him also.. it ties in to my notion that the new material in general is decimating his easygoing, genial character and replacing it with more of just either, a. a mopey doormat or b., a not-as-likeable bitter type.
Fry was never really the bitter type. Yet for some reason that's what they seem to be leaning in favor of.
Archonix

Space Pope
****
« Reply #483 on: 07-29-2008 04:35 »

I think that's just the plotting. Anyone would be bitter in those situations. And he did insert a foreign object for a while...

IMO it looks like the next movie will have him more like his old self. One hopes.
ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #484 on: 07-29-2008 10:27 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by km73:
Fry was never really the bitter type. Yet for some reason that's what they seem to be leaning in favor of.
Yea, I don't think he was ever really bitter; at times forlorn, despondent, and certainly unhappy about his life however. 
I think we are seeing some big valleys for Fry (i.e. character growth?), leading up to the peak of ITWGY...or I hope anyway.



you are probably more likely to die from swallowing a bee
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #485 on: 07-29-2008 22:59 »

Exactly I have faith that this will all lead somewere in ITWGY. We shall see in time if that faith has been well placed. Past experience has shown it to be so I hope that continues.
Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #486 on: 07-29-2008 23:44 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frisco17:
Exactly I have faith that this will all lead somewere in ITWGY.

I find that if I have low expectations, I don't get as dissappointed if I did. I'm just going to put low expectations on "Into the Wild Green Yonder" because I don't want to get dissapointed if it was made out more than it was (which I have a slight feeling it is after "Bender's Big Score" ).
Archonix

Space Pope
****
« Reply #487 on: 07-30-2008 05:09 »

Well I'm just expecting a silly romp through fantasy land. Not every episode has to be about the ship.  smile
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #488 on: 07-30-2008 22:54 »

And not every one should be. What happens when they deal with it too much is that it just ends up getting ignored anyway. That's why I love the first two seasons so much. Instead of episodes revolving around the ship it just kind of works its way in there on its own. Works out better that way in my opinion. Take AFTR and X-mas Story for example.
km73

Space Pope
****
« Reply #489 on: 07-31-2008 01:39 »

Absolutely. Considering AFTR and Xmas Story are both firmly ensconced in my random top 25 episodes, I think they succeed better as well. What happens when they deal with it too much is that it ends up seeming forced. As it very much did in BBS, and to some extent even in episodes like The Sting and Devil's Hands, in my opinion. The emotional factor is just one of the several divergent facets that make up Futurama, and as such shouldn't dominate or overshadow the humorous, action-oriented, or sciencey/science-fictiony aspects.

Of course, AFTR did revolve around a 'ship', in some sense... haa.
ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #490 on: 07-31-2008 10:49 »

AFTR is a great example, it is a very clever 'ship-isode. The multiple relationships and parody all rolled up are really entertaining.
 
Quote
Originally posted by km73:
The emotional factor is just one of the several divergent facets that make up Futurama, and as such shouldn't dominate or overshadow the humorous, action-oriented, or sciencey/science-fictiony aspects.
Honestly km, I completely disagree; I wouldn't be nearly as interested in the show if I didn't have an investment in the characters outside of day-to-day adventures, and the ship factor has always been a major part of it. Fry's search for a worthy mate was introduced immediately ("I put your stuff out on the sidewalk!" ), and it has been ramped up steadily as the show progressed. If it were a constant element, the show would cross into soap-opera territory <shudder>, and I would tune out; a good balance is tough to achieve but without the ship, my interest in the show would be much more pedestrian (I prolly wouldn't care enough to visit this site for example  roll eyes )
BG has to be the romp before the ITWGY climax/denouement, and I am very much looking forward to both (with the very real possibility of being disappointed, but I dare to hope...)
km73

Space Pope
****
« Reply #491 on: 07-31-2008 19:17 »

Well, yeah, but to me the 'ship factor' is just one element; one part of the tapestry that comprises Futurama. I know what got me initially was the humor and in particular the intelligence of the show; as I've recounted a couple of times, what caused me to finally stop ignoring it on Adult Swim, and give in, and start watching it, was coming across the bit in Godfellas where Bender is floating through space pontificating to himself. I was rather transfixed. "A robot - philosophizing - in space - and making jokes. ..I think I need to get me a piece of this show."
And every subsequent episode I saw for a while after that continued to - impress me, to put it mildly.
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #492 on: 07-31-2008 22:34 »

I have to partially agree with both of you. Like km73 I started watching it for the humor but what sets it apart from say The Simpsons (which I also love just not as much) is the way they work in all sorts of other things. Like I said I started watching the show for the humor and after seeing....I think it was War Is The H-Word and Amazon Women In The Mood I was thinking, yeah this is hilarious. Then the next ones I saw were Parasites and Fryrish and I realized how amazing it really was. The point is that it has an almost perfect balance of commedy, action, emotion, etc. Focusing too much on any one of these is bad becuase, like you said, it becomes forced. It's better to not mention something than it is to do a story about it that will just be erased, oh lets say....a month later.
aknightofni

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #493 on: 07-31-2008 23:53 »

I feel the show had an amazing balance throughout, and understand why the movies feel a little off. But I get the impression that they realize it too, and the next two movies are going to be much closer to the original shows.

Ideally they will have Benders Game be the awesome adventure movie, loaded with fun and nonsense, but with the character interaction that made Futurama great. Nothing forced, not focusing on any one character or relationship.

Into The Wild Green Yonder will be their chance to "realign" with the shows, they can jump right back into the original series continuity with the universe needing its savior, nibbler going to Fry for help once more, a quick "your the most important person in the universe" recap (hopefully returning his memory from 'The Why of Fry') and using "The Other" to put Fry and Leela together. If they do it right, they can get the feel of the old show back and set up everything for a perfect return to T.V!
km73

Space Pope
****
« Reply #494 on: 08-01-2008 00:39 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by aknightofni:
But I get the impression that they realize it too, and the next two movies are going to be much closer to the original shows.

That's what people were surmising before the second movie...

----

Anyway, I think we're all saying basically pretty much the same thing.
It needs that balance, blend, potpourri, etc.

Mm, my next few after Godfellas were ones like My Three Suns, AFTR, When Aliens Attack, Fishful of Dollars, Xmas Story, possibly AOI1; I remember being fairly mindblown at the quality. Couldn't believe how consistently excellent they all were.

It was like being treated to a rich little feast every night.

aknightofni

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #495 on: 08-01-2008 01:20 »
« Last Edit on: 08-01-2008 01:20 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by km73:
 That's what people were surmising before the second movie...


But they were still stuck with the space tear, they couldn't quite cut loose from BBS. This time they get a fresh start and a whole new setting!

If they do manage to do the next two movies right, and make it back to T.V, the first two will become one of those things you admit happened, enjoy watching, but outside that don't really acknowledge them in the grander scheme of the show.

Like Stargate season 9 and 10... its only there if I'm watching an episode, but otherwise the show ended firmly with season 8.

   laff

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmhYmFGH80Q

Comic Con 08 panel shippyness!
HipNoJoe
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #496 on: 08-01-2008 17:37 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by aknightofni:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmhYmFGH80Q

Comic Con 08 panel shippyness!
Super! - Talk of "Fry and Leela developments" and Segal/West kissing audio recorded for dvd 4 - it gave me a warm fuzzy feeling.
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #497 on: 08-01-2008 21:57 »

That looks promising on a rediculous level!
aknightofni

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #498 on: 08-01-2008 23:36 »
« Last Edit on: 08-01-2008 23:36 »

Segal in the background "I just remember all that kissing".

Not just that kiss, or kissing, ALL THAT[/b] kissing. And the loud WOOOOOO came from her too  laff

Hot.

And the way Cohen said "developments" filled me with much hope!!!
Archonix

Space Pope
****
« Reply #499 on: 08-02-2008 06:06 »

The way Blly said "I finally get some lip" filed me with more...
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #500 on: 08-02-2008 23:11 »

I think it's just the whole thing put to gether. It's both hilarious and, as I said before, promising.  big grin
Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #501 on: 08-03-2008 20:26 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frisco17:
I think it's just the whole thing put to gether. It's both hilarious and, as I said before, promising.   big grin

The shipper in me wishes it were true. But my mind wants my heart to stray away from it as I fear it may be another "Bender's Big Score".

I wonder if all those shippers-turned-antishippers still have a bit of 'ship in them. Ever since "Bender's Big Score" and "The Beast with a Billion Backs" have been released, so many have converted to antishipper. I would have liked to, but it's the aspect of the show that hooked me, and without it, reruns are only worth watching to look for goofs, freeze frames, other intense plot arcs, and good jokes.
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #502 on: 08-03-2008 22:24 »
« Last Edit on: 08-03-2008 22:24 »

It did surprise me how many people pulled 180s like that.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
 The shipper in me wishes it were true. But my mind wants my heart to stray away from it as I fear it may be another "Bender's Big Score".

"For me, there is only one eighties."
aknightofni

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #503 on: 08-03-2008 23:24 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frida Waterfall:
 The shipper in me wishes it were true. But my mind wants my heart to stray away from it as I fear it may be another "Bender's Big Score".


Faith, must... keep... faith!!

Archonix

Space Pope
****
« Reply #504 on: 08-04-2008 02:57 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frisco17:
It did surprise me how many people pulled 180s like that.

 

Not me. I've always beleived that love and hate are simply a positive and negative expression of desire and passionate emotional attachment toward something. That's why love so easily turns into hate and why hate can seem so much like love. The stronger the desire for something, the hate you'll have if you think that thing has let you down.
Frida Waterfall

Professor
*
« Reply #505 on: 08-04-2008 12:31 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Archonix:
I've always beleived that love and hate are simply a positive and negative expression of desire and passionate emotional attachment toward something. That's why love so easily turns into hate and why hate can seem so much like love. The stronger the desire for something, the hate you'll have if you think that thing has let you down.

Actually, love and hate are not opposites. The true opposite of love is not loving, otherwise no emotion. I think the same thing goes for hate too.

But still, I do understand what your saying. The ones who love you the most can hurt you the most. It just can't work inversively as the ones who hurt you the most are the ones who love you the most.
Archonix

Space Pope
****
« Reply #506 on: 08-04-2008 12:38 »

That's why I didn't say opposites.  wink I think you said it a bit better than I did, though, when all's said and done.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #507 on: 08-04-2008 13:02 »

      Quote
      Originally posted by Archonix:
      ... I've always beleived that love and hate are simply a positive and negative expression of desire and passionate emotional attachment toward something. That's why love so easily turns into hate and why hate can seem so much like love. The stronger the desire for something, the hate you'll have if you think that thing has let you down.
      You seem to agree with an idea I've had for quite some time.

      Have any of you studied vectors?
      In nature there are two types of quantities:
      Vectors and scalars.
      Scalars have magnitude:
      • 20 Liters.
      • 3.14 Radians.
      • 100 Lumens.
      I could go on, but you get the idea.
      Vector's, on the other hand, have magnitude and direction:
      • 100 Newtons in that direction.
      • 100 Meters per second in that direction.
      • 50 Feet in that direction.
      I'll stop there,

      My idea is that human emotions are like vectors in that they have both magnitude and direction.
      The direction of an emotion is the type of emotion; love, hate, anger, joy, sadness, etc.
      The magnitude, of course, is the degree to which one feels said emotion.*
      Love and hate, for example, are very similar emotions.
      Suppose two spouses who love one another more than life itself go through a messy, contentious divorce (for whatever reason).
      *BANG!*
      Suddenly, all the passion (or power, if you will) that was expressed as love before morph's into hatred.
      What happened? Simple:
      The magnitude is the same, but the direction has changed by exactly 180 degrees.
      *In my experience, at least, humans are rather good at discerning the direction of somone's emotion, but do not fare as well judging the magnitude.



      CONGRATULATIONS!
      Yer'all graduates of SpaceCase's school of Human Psychosis Psychology.
      In eight to twelve weeks you may receive a certificate suitable for framing...
      lining a bird cage...
      wrapping fish...
        roll eyes

      I'm... I... I'll just... ooze back out under the laboratory door now...
      aknightofni

      Starship Captain
      ****
      « Reply #508 on: 08-04-2008 13:19 »
      « Last Edit on: 08-04-2008 13:19 »

      Soon enough well get down to the 1's and 0's of everything going on in our brain anyway.   smile

      It's not hard to see why we can start to describe emotions in more logical terms, I have no doubt that at the heart of it all, whether we like it or not, the same 1, 0, and , or, not is running our circuits same as any computer. It is just there is a hell of a lot of code, and its hard to view.
      JustNibblin

      Bending Unit
      ***
      « Reply #509 on: 08-04-2008 13:25 »

      SC:  Three problems with vector interpretation of love and hate: (1) If hate 180 deg out of phase with love, then love and hate would tend to cancel out. (2) A quantity that rotates a vector is a tensor, so I'd revise your statement that if emotions are vectors, the human mind is a tensor.  (3) Love and most emotions are nonlinear, and thus not applicable to vector algebra.  I know this because my father once asked my annoyed mother, "Please dear, don't go nonlinear on me."

      She went nonlinear.

      *turns off smart-ass know-it-all attitude*

       
      Quote
      Originally posted by aknightofni:
       

       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmhYmFGH80Q

      Comic Con 08 panel shippyness!

      I love this clip!  I love the question, the audience cheering the question, DXC stumbling around  for an excuse for Fry's behavior in BWABB, the mild rebellion of the voice actors against DXC, Katy's "yeah, where's this thing going" attitude, and of course, the kiss and Billy's comment.
      Xanfor

      DOOP Secretary
      *
      « Reply #510 on: 08-04-2008 16:46 »

      Loneliness is the opposite of love, methinks. Not hate. It's possible to both love and hate someone at the time.
      ShepherdofShark

      Space Pope
      ****
      « Reply #511 on: 08-04-2008 17:04 »

      That's deep, Xanfor. Deeper than a small post should be.
      Archonix

      Space Pope
      ****
      « Reply #512 on: 08-04-2008 17:04 »

      That's what I was trying to say...
      Frida Waterfall

      Professor
      *
      « Reply #513 on: 08-04-2008 17:21 »
      « Last Edit on: 08-04-2008 17:21 »

           
      Quote
      Originally posted by Xanfor:
      Loneliness is the opposite of love, methinks. Not hate. It's possible to both love and hate someone at the time.

      Dang... that's simple.

      "The more you wuv someone, the more you want to kill dem."

      I don't know if loneliness could apply to romantic love, though. A person could spend a lifetime without being loved romantically but could also claim that they've never endured loneliness, which also works inversively to how a person could have a fulfilling romantic life but still undergo loneliness. Actually, that works for all types of love. A person really only "feels" lonely when he/she/it identifies/acknowledges it. Somebody may spend all eternity with no contact with anybody or anything else, but even though you can tell that they're alone, they're not lonely because they don't know that there is anybody or anything else out there. Just look at prime example Yivo; he spent billions of years by himself in his own universe, but he never truly felt lonely until he realized that there was more to his world. You don't know yourself until you know everybody around you.
      ALequalsGREAT

      Starship Captain
      ****
      « Reply #514 on: 08-05-2008 17:18 »

      And here we are again at the central themes for our main chars: love and loneliness....
      km73

      Space Pope
      ****
      « Reply #515 on: 08-05-2008 19:37 »

      As for the thesis that loneliness is relative: Leela probably never realized she was lonely until she met Fry. Conversely, however, Fry seemed to only have that realization suddenly in BBS - all at once it was, "Oh. I'm lonely." And he was only able to deal with it by doing what he did in that movie, pursuing Leelu et al.

       
      Quote
      Originally posted by ShepherdofShark:
       Deeper than a small post should be.

      Right, a small post shouldn't be able to go too deep into the ground...

      aknightofni

      Starship Captain
      ****
      « Reply #516 on: 08-05-2008 19:44 »

      I have a feeling Leela was pretty sure of how lonely she was before Fry, Fry was just the first person that really inspired her to do something about it.
      Frisco17

      DOOP Secretary
      *
      « Reply #517 on: 08-05-2008 22:12 »

      Or do something about her whole life really. Which up till that point apparently sucked.
      aknightofni

      Starship Captain
      ****
      « Reply #518 on: 08-05-2008 22:24 »

      Fry is more or less the best thing to happen to her life since double soup Tuesdays.

      Frida Waterfall

      Professor
      *
      « Reply #519 on: 08-05-2008 23:12 »
      « Last Edit on: 08-05-2008 23:12 »

         
      Quote
      Originally posted by km73:
      As for the thesis that loneliness is relative: Leela probably never realized she was lonely until she met Fry.

      Leela, being an outcast in a group of bottom-of-the-food-chain orphans and and a previously-thought only one-eyed alien in the known universe most definitely has identified her loneliness. I know you want to go somewhere with this, but Fry didn't open her eye to her obvious loneliness in the universe. However, Fry deserves some credit for making it more apparent.

         
      Quote
      Originally posted by km73:
      Conversely, however, Fry seemed to only have that realization suddenly in BBS - all at once it was, "Oh. I'm lonely." And he was only able to deal with it by doing what he did in that movie, pursuing Leelu et al.

      Fry and Leela have two drastically different standards on loneliness. Leela's endured heavy separation from society her whole life. In her first 24 years, she was again an orphan who was separated by her fellow abandaned peers, a "defect" alien by others in society, and a physically-inept female looked down upon by sexists like Master Fnog. Leela's stated from the pilot she knows what it's like to be lonely. The extreme separation in her life has also lowered the level when she can identify herself with loneliness. Therefore, she can endure more seclusion from society without taking too much harm. Just look at the recently-released "The Beast with a Billion Backs". Leela opposed an entire universal movement- both on Earth and on Yivo (well, for most of her time on Yivo). I found her to an extend treasure her loneliness as that was the only thing going for her (really, who would play single-player pong?).

      Fry's very quick to identify loneliness with him. In the pilot episode, he wasn't even awake in the future for 24 hours before he began claiming that he was lonely. Later, in "Xmas Story", he continued on to say that he is still alone in the future. Skipping ahead to "Bender's Big Score", Fry was quick to admit loneliness even though he had everything he had in the pilot. Now in "The Beast in a Billion Backs", he once again claimed loneliness even though the only thing he had missing was a girlfriend.

      I'll get back to this tomorrow. My original post was going great at first, but then it was accidentally deleted by the click of the wrong button (damn Internet Explorer can't even recover it). I know where I want to go with this, but I think I'm just too infuriated to do it now. I will expand on Fry's section a bit more (I got a lot to say on him), alter Leela's section a bit, and add on a paragraph which the idea just escapes my mind. But yes, don't quite follow this post because I know I do have something better to present to the shipping community.

      EDIT: I hate it all. I could definitely write something that makes more sense than this crap. Don't follow it, just use it as an idea of what I want to write (I got a lot to say about this, and I'm very passionate about this).
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