Ship Trek: Deep Thread Nine

[Reply #280 on:]

A very provocative point you pose Archonix.  But is this only true of fictional characters as those upon a television screen?  Do we not attach our own biases to real people as well as we perceive them through our own eyes shaped by our own experiences?  I won't suggest that you are incorrect in your assertion, however, I would like to note that I believe its possible for fictional characters to be defined with certain personality traits and characters that can be observed and plainly defined in an objective manner.

[Reply #281 on:]

Well that's not in doubt, or we wouldn't have anything to hang our own perceptions on. 

[Reply #282 on:]

Ah, but the writeers do give us very specific ideas of all the characters.  The Professor IS an amoral crackpot.  Amy IS a ditz from Mars.  Zoidberg DOES smell like garbage and eats it.

Most of all, both Leela and Fry have some major personality flaws.

BTW Arch, did you get my e-mail about another PEELer?

[Reply #283 on:]

Yes, not had chance to reply yet.

[Reply #284 on:]

A successful character is like a properly drawn cartoon. Only a few lines are drawn on the paper; the viewer is allowed to subconsciously fill in the white spaces. This allows for greater detail and complexity than ever could be actually rendered.

[Reply #285 on:]

So trying to bring this back to a shippy discussion: when do you guys think Fry first realized and acknowledged the fact that he did in fact have a crush on Leela.  Was he just oblivious and acting more on impulse and hormones with the almost kisses before?  We know it had to be before War is the H-Word though.

"So any of you have a lady friend back home?"
Fry: Well I sort of have this thing for a girl I work with.
Leela "Lee Lemon": Really?!  What is she, blond, or Chinese, or cyclops..
Fry: Cyclops
Leela "Lee Lemon": Aww, she sounds sweet..

[Reply #286 on:]

I always thought it was in "The Problem With Popplers", when Fry had the following dialogue as Leela was about to be devoured by Lrrrr:
 
Bender: I'll miss you, Leela. I know you're just a carbon based life-form, but I'll always think of you as a big pile of titanium.

Fry: What Bender means is you're really brave and smart and beautiful. And a great friend.

Yeah, Fry was probably saying that just because he though Leela was about to become Omicronian food, but I think the mild crush he had on Leela from day one really broke free after this point. Before this ep, he never really consciously pursued Leela as a romantic partner (even saying "You take her!" to the beach bully in "When Aliens Attack", a line he never would have said later in the series), but after, he was pretty much constantly begging her for dates and pining away when she routinely rejected him. 

[Reply #287 on:]

I always figured it was right there from the beginning and he realised it alot more "A Flight To Remember"

Leela: "Oh, are you sure? I mean, she has two eyes, you have two eyes.'

Fry: "I know, we seem like a perfect match, but I just don't feel that way about her."

Which leads me into something else I noticed. For some reason Leela seems not only alot more receptive towards Fry before he goes all out trying to impress her but she also gets jealous when she thinks he's with somebody else.

[Reply #288 on:]

Fry just needs to stop chasing her. Let her come to him. The vibe I've get from her is she doesn't want to be persued by him and like Frisco said she seems to like him more when he's not chasing her for dates. And he should totally date other girls he needs to stop pioning over Leela and date others.

[Reply #289 on:]

 

Originally posted by Bendersfan1221:

Fry just needs to stop chasing her. Let her come to him. The vibe I've get from her is she doesn't want to be persued by him and like Frisco said she seems to like him more when he's not chasing her for dates. And he should totally date other girls he needs to stop pioning over Leela and date others.

Part of the answer is in the spoiler tag.

Show spoiler

Well, that what he does in Beast and at the very end, he half-heartedly approaches Leela and she says, "Oh please, you forgot about me quick enough when you met Colleen."

So she dumps on Fry, does everything to push him away but when he does meet somebody else and it doesn't work out, Leela acts like she's the offended party.  The woman is certifiably nuts.

[Reply #290 on:]

 

Originally posted by Ralph Snart:

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Well, that what he does in Beast and at the very end, he half-heartedly approaches Leela and she says, "Oh please, you forgot about me quick enough when you met Colleen."

You must admit, however, that Fry replied flawlessly to that accusation.

[Reply #291 on:]

I agree about her being nuts. Seriously she has like mulitple personalities or something.

[Reply #292 on:]

You didn't expect it to stay up forever, did you?

[Reply #293 on:]

No I didn't I was justing hoping that it wouldn't get found before I finished it. If I had skipped my 7th period class I would have finished it, or if I had utilized the tabs oh well...

[Reply #294 on:]

Having studiously refused all access to spoilerific downloads of BWABB I cannot say for sure my opinion of the scene in question. However...

Show spoiler

my understanding is that Fry basically plops down in front of Leela and says "You're going out with me" after deciding he'd go out with the first women he saw. In that situation I'd probably react the same way.

To put it another way, holding one side of this relationship responsible for all it's apparent problems is simply unfair.

[Reply #295 on:]

If you don't want "The Beast with a Billion Backs" spoiled, don't read this spoilerific comment.

Show spoiler

I don't know if I'm thinking straight today or not (I spent all last night watching "The Beast with a Billion Backs" ), but I have the strangest thought that Leela just needs some space from Fry for a while in order to pave past relationships over. Time does heal all wounds. I think (I may be wrong) that even the movie presented this fact when Leela eventually "caved in" to the love of Yivo and heaven. Maybe Leela will now only give in to romantic pressures when it comes to relationships she previously deemed "wrong". In the case of Yivo, she was pressured by everybody else in heaven to love the tentacle (well suiting to the phrase "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" ). I'm not quite sure how this "characteristic"(?) of hers will fit into Fry's pursuit, but I do have an idea for the fourth movie.

If you don't want to know anything about the plotline for the fourth movie, don't read this spoiler. However, it contains all information released to most mainstream Futurama sites, so this spoiler-foresight may not affect your viewing experience one bit.

Show spoiler

For some reason, I don't know why (maybe where) fans have heard this, but several PEELers have come to believe that the fourth movie, "Into the Wild, Green Yonder" will tie up the Fry and Leela relationship. A few months ago, I came up with a possible plotline for that movie.

The two main participating civilizations in the intergalatic war has begun to recruit members from other planets. These recruits have their moral/philosophical/economic/etc. reasons to join the war. However, the different views have separated plants, including Earth. This is presented with the Planet Express Crew when Fry, Amy, and either Dr. Zoidberg, Hermes, Professor Farnsworth, and Scruffy choose to be on one side and Leela, Bender, and either Dr. Zoidberg, Hermes, the Professor, and Scruffy on the other side. The war has lead to some major disputes with the company. For the war, both sides of Planet Express join the main army fighting, usually doing odd jobs and simple tasks, not really out on the battlefield. None of the recruits employed to Planet Express really cares about how the other half of Planet Express is doing, except Leela. Leela's never been without contact with Fry for extended periods of time. Every adventure she goes through usually has Fry on her side. For once in her life after meeting Fry nine years ago, she is now battling without the need to rescue Fry, without Fry's lame jokes, and Fry's physical presence. Of course, Leela doesn't realize Fry's importance to her at first (though she does acknowledge an emptiness inside of her), but after some stunning incident or event, it comes to her realization. In conclusion, though she may not be in a romantic relationship with Fry, she has come to admit that she needs Fry in her life.

[Reply #296 on:]

I like that. That seems to be a very feasable plot line for ITWGY, Frida.

[Reply #297 on:]

 

Originally posted by Archonix:

To put it another way, holding one side of this relationship responsible for all it's apparent problems is simply unfair.

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Hey dude, I didn't say it was all her fault, but she was really out of character and seemed to want to draw blood from Fry.  She really came off as being a heartless bitch in her final scene with Fry.

Ah, my friend, just wait until you actually watch the movie.  You'll see that Leela actually seems to enjoy her loneliness, wearing it like some sort of badge of courage.  She almost seems to in some sick way enjoy being lonely and miserable.

As for Fry, he was way out of character in this movie also but in no way as disturbing as Leela actually making comments about wanting strife in her life.

I actually got an e-mail today stating that this person likes my extremist views on Leela.  Now I don't know if that's because they agree with me or they just like the fact that I've graduated from being a blind Leela fan-boy and can make some controversial statements that adds to the discussion and commentary.

[Reply #298 on:]

She does enjoy it and I don't know why. She definatly comes off as a heartles bitch and she seems to be getting more and more nito that and it's pissing me off.

[Reply #299 on:]

 

Originally posted by Ralph Snart:

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As for Fry, he was way out of character in this movie also but in no way as disturbing as Leela actually making comments about wanting strife in her life.

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Actually, I liked how Fry was in this movie. Not only has he become both more mature and more cognisant, but the manner in which he was able to stand up to Leela has convinced me that he's finally gotten over her. Which pleases me no end.

I love how he rebuffed her at the end by agreeing.

Right, that's why I gave up on her. Next! 

[Reply #300 on:]

Agreed Xan. He's finally showing signs of getting over her. Maybe now she'll see that she actually love him or he'll find some one who really loves him and will stay with him and Leela will be left to wonder what she lost.

By  the way Xan love the signature 

[Reply #301 on:]

Well I'm thoroughly confused. Being probably the only person who hasn't seen the movie yet I'm probably taking alot of things out of context but it seems to be taking a rather depressing turn.

[Reply #302 on:]

 

Originally posted by Xanfor:
 

Show spoiler

Actually, I liked how Fry was in this movie. Not only has he become both more mature and more cognisant, but the manner in which he was able to stand up to Leela has convinced me that he's finally gotten over her. Which pleases me no end.

I love how he rebuffed her at the end by agreeing.

Right, that's why I gave up on her. Next!   

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I wouldn't call him "mature". He seemed quite immature in BWABB by just a little more than usual. He reminded me of his season 2 self.

[Reply #303 on:]

Maybe Leela and I are very similar.... I never thought about her enjoying misery and loneliness, but that makes more sense than most anything else I've heard yet.... it might be totally subconcious, but it seems realistic.

[Reply #304 on:]

Show spoiler

After watching Beast a second time and having wound down from losing an 18 year old girl at work, I have to say I liked Beast much more than BBS (but then I enjoy anesthesia-free dentistry more than BBS).

It's not fantastic like Roswell, The Sting or X-mas Story but is interesting.  I gotta say I don't have any idea what the hell the writers are doing with Leela - she seems to revell in her loneliness and wears it like some sort of badge of honor.  She also seems to enjoy taking cheap shots at Fry every chance she gets.  She places the laser sights of three guns between Fry's eyes, just itching to pull the triggers.  Then at the end, she makes some ambiguous statement to Fry that "You forgot about me fast enough when you met Colleen."  WTF?  When did she and Fry ever have any sort of relationship other than using Fry as her personal lap dog.  It was nice to see that Fry wasn't pining over Leela.

Funny things:  Amy's dress at Kif's funeral, Leela finding Zapp and Amy in bed, post coitus.  Yivo feeling betrayed by Fry, Bender stating that he loves Fry and Leela more than they can imagine.  Kif bought back to life and finds out that Amy has been "Zapped".

Well worth the time.  I still think that Leela needs a Prozac the size of a softball - I'm wondering if the writers are making her so eratic to have some sort of payoff in the last DVD.

[Reply #305 on:]

 

Originally posted by Ralph Snart:

Show spoiler

Well worth the time.  I still think that Leela needs a Prozac the size of a softball - I'm wondering if the writers are making her so eratic to have some sort of payoff in the last DVD.

I have to agree with Ralph on this one. I think they're screwing with the characters so much (ie: Fry going out with Colleen, Leela being alittle nuts) to add more conflict and drag things out longer. Trying to milk it until ITWGY in my opinion.

[Reply #306 on:]

One good movie would have been better...

[Reply #307 on:]

There I agree with you. I think they're trying to play up the drama too much. You can have drama and all that stuff but don't do it at the expense of comedy.

[Reply #308 on:]

Unless you're a fanfic writer. 

[Reply #309 on:]

This is true.

[Reply #310 on:]

Or Not   

 

A successful character is like a properly drawn cartoon. Only a few lines are drawn on the paper; the viewer is allowed to subconsciously fill in the white spaces. This allows for greater detail and complexity than ever could be actually rendered.

While I'm here lemme just agree all sorts with this.  Leela's not actually as filled out as many people make her out to be (lol immature pun).  This is going to sound corny, but I think how we see and describe Leela with her many many flaws is affected mostly by how we see ourselves and others in the real world.  On paper, she's really just an somewhat interesting dichotomy of arrogance and innate insecurity. 

[Reply #311 on:]

I absolutely agree that she isn't as 'filled out' as a lot of people seem to think, because everyone adds their own conceptions and extrapolates things that aren't there or are never specified in the show, but I don't personally see the arrogance or insecurity either. Well, some insecurity, okay, but generally if you look at her realistically she's just another character--not all that complex, and certainly nothing to justify the way BAD fanfic writers sometimes treat her: making speeches to herself and such.

Also, what the fuck hell?? Has EVERYBODY except me seen the movie now?
When the hell did this happen?

[Reply #312 on:]

I like that people can add their own perceptions about the character but Leela seems to get the most of it because of how we have seen her personality and how she treats Fry.

Between today and 2 or 3 days ago, I think km.

[Reply #313 on:]

Ok, I haven't checked in recently, and I do apologize for asking obvious questions, but it would be great if someone answered my question.. Has BwaBB been released yet? Alot of you, according to the spoilers, seem to have watched this movie. But when I check amazon.com and what not, this movie isn't coming out in 14 days. Stupid question, Im sure, but I would definitely appreciate an answer. Thanks.

Regarding the Fry/Leela relationship, it doesn't surprise me how the writing turned out. After all, in season four, there were alot of episodes where Fry & Leela were committed, but the next episode it was like whatever, that never happened.

[Reply #314 on:]

The reset button strikes again.

WAVer we have our ways. The release date is definatly 14 days from now though.

[Reply #315 on:]

Yeah... conversations about the movie should probably be reserved until after it's officially released perhaps?

I'm sure it's great and all from the trailer we've seen and what not....

Also, I don't see it as that odd for Fry to date other people.... He and Leela haven't exactly come together for anything official (excepting Time Keeps on Slipping, alternate universes don't count) and he should be able to take what he can get.  Fry and Leela certainly have a special place in their hearts for each other, they're pretty good friends with or without the romance.

I suppose I'll talk about this more after the second movie comes out perhaps....

[Reply #316 on:]

   

Originally posted by winna:
Maybe Leela and I are very similar.... I never thought about her enjoying misery and loneliness, but that makes more sense than most anything else I've heard yet.... it might be totally subconcious, but it seems realistic.

I seem to be one of the few who has not seen the movie yet (does not bother me, actually) so I do not know the extent of Leela's comments.  I can relate to the enjoying loneliness comment (but definately NOT the misery).  The only perspective I can draw is from my age range- I am older than Leela but only by a few years. Something seems to happen around 35 years old (and I think this applies to both women and men) where if you have not found a significant other you come to get used to being alone and in charge of your life and come to enjoy it so it gets harder to open to a relationship... but that does not mean you cut off all social ties.  Many of us (me included) have very active and fun social lives and do lots of volunteer work so we have great friends.  We just are not out on the meet market singles scene.  We are open to a relationship definately, but in the right place and the right time.  Leela and Fry are reaching that age.  Leela loves her freedom and values solitude, like me, but I sure hope (and remember I have not seen the movies) she has NOT dropped all contact with humanity.  That is not healthy.  Well, I will have to see the video to know for sure.  I just posted this to show that those of us who are happily single and older are also happily part of every day society and not at all social reclusives.  I just wished Fry and Leela were, too. 

[Reply #317 on:]

   

Originally posted by Bendersfan1221:
The reset button strikes again.

WAVer we have our ways. The release date is definatly 14 days from now though.

You mean like, using programs to download and view the movie? I know all about that, bro, though I don't use them myself. (Honestly). Regardless, I just wasn't completely sure, so I thought I'd ask. Whether or not that's the case or no, it doesn't matter. This movie should be stellar, alot better than the first one.

Regarding Fry, I completely support him dating other ladies. I am definitely a much bigger fan of Fry and I am of Leela, but I would definitely perfer to see him and Leela end up together. Regardless, Fry is my hero.   

[Reply #318 on:]

I found BWABB early via a freak accident involving a rubber band, a kettle, my lapel, its aformentioned carrot, a random YouTube url, a knot consisting of several pieces of old string, the oil well beneath my basement, and MacGyver's seldom-seen-on-screen sonic screwdriver. Which was quite probably evil and in use somewhere in Project Satan.

 

Originally posted by FordMustang:

Something seems to happen around 35 years old (and I think this applies to both women and men) where if you have not found a significant other you come to get used to being alone and in charge of your life and come to enjoy it so it gets harder to open to a relationship... but that does not mean you cut off all social ties.  Many of us (me included) have very active and fun social lives and do lots of volunteer work so we have great friends.  We just are not out on the meet market singles scene.  We are open to a relationship definately, but in the right place and the right time.

Allow me to agree with that. Also, members of the opposite gender begin to actually believe you when you say all you're after is a friendship.

[Reply #319 on:]

Haha nice Xan.

I want Fry to date other women he just needs to move on from Leela and find someone who will except him for who he is imperfections and all.

WAVer I didn't use any programs, I got the links from someone. He knows who he is...