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Author Topic: The Evil Conspiracy Against Pedro Thread  (Read 101032 times)
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Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #680 on: 12-04-2007 04:52 »
« Last Edit on: 12-04-2007 04:52 »

It's simple. Maturity is knowing when to act like a child and when to stop. Fry didn't know that. Lars did.

Maybe Fry does, now. It's difficult to say.
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #681 on: 12-04-2007 05:22 »

The argument that ggetting married (or marrying characters off) will ruin the tension of the series between Fry and Leela is stupid - it would open up a whole new Pandora's box of tension.

Leela has security and trust issues - she would become jealous and insecure if another woman so much as batted her eyes at Fry.  It would be nice to see Leela being jealous and acting catty towards other women where her husband would be concerned.

Fry would also have security issues with other men around Leela.

Ask any married couple - getting married doesn't get rid of the 'tension' dynamic, it changes it and in some ways, increases it.

So DXC, Matt Groening or any writers who may be lurking - the DVD's are in the can - a done deal, but if you guys can get another DVD gig, theatrical release or renewal of the series, consider doing something different - get Fry and Leela together as a married couple, or at least an engaged couple.  Believe me, the scripts could write themselves. 

You need examples?  How about Leela having a superior rank to her husband?  He does something stupid (it's Fry, so that's a given) - you could do a whole season on the arguements that would come from that scenario.  Fry's immaturity could give a few eps and Leela's straightlaced, always professional attitude could have a few setbacks due to her infamous temper.

How would Bender fit in?  He's Fry's best friend and a criminal.  Think about how jealous he would be about losing his little space heater to Big Boots.  If Fry and Leela are engaged, a few episodes could be written about Bender trying to break the couple up so he could have Fry all to himself (sounds like he may be a closet Robosexual).

But the crap that has been going on is getting old to me.  Fry chases Leela, leela turns Fry down, Fry saves Leela or Fry's there for Leela, she gives him hope for the future and goes back to... nothing.  Do something really different and open up new storylines.

Ralph 'married and still has tension in his life' Snart
Archonix

Space Pope
****
« Reply #682 on: 12-04-2007 06:26 »
« Last Edit on: 12-04-2007 06:26 »

 
Quote
Ask any married couple - getting married doesn't get rid of the 'tension' dynamic, it changes it and in some ways, increases it.

Oh, jeeze, tell me about it...

I agree actually, there could be a lot of great stories in there. However... my experience has been that no show, no matter how good it is, can successfully pull of a marriage between the main characters. Why? Because the writers fall into the trap, every time, of making the characters two halves of the whole. Immediately. There's almost a visible thunk when it happens when the reality is that it takes years for a couple to knock the edges off each other and become that sort of bonded union. They change them into different people in order to make the marriage "perfect" straight away. They essentially turn in to bad 'ship-writers. I prefer the never-ending chase we have at the moment to the possibility of them being together and becoming the stereotypical married couple of too many sitcoms and soaps...

MG and co have said that the last film resolves their relationship. If the series gets renewed after that then you may well get your wish, but I'd be worried. Main character marriages tend to be a sign that a show is jumping the shark. Call me a jaded cynic...

I'll be incredibly happy if they get it right, of course. I'm not so cynical that I won't let myself enjoy it.

--

Actually I was discussing this with the wife last night and we came up with one very plausible outcome. Married with Children. However, I don't know why but I get the feeling Leela would be the one sat on the couch, beer in hand, staring at the TV with her hand down her c- anyway, the dynamic has always been that Leela is the "strong" character, taking on the traditionally male role of the Knight to Fry's Princess (these are actual terms used in media analysis, if you're wondering, and don't reflect any gender roles so much as archetypal character types) so it's also conceivable she'd become Al to Fry's Peg after a few years. Personally I'd find that hilarious if they played it for laughs for a few episodes. In fact I think I'll go and draw it.

But later, I should be working.
Frida Waterfall

Professor
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« Reply #683 on: 12-04-2007 16:57 »

After "Bender's Big Score", I've gotten a closer lean on my opinion of whether or not Fry and Leela should get together in the series. However, I don't have enough time right now to go on about this topic. I still have yet to write a review for "Bender's Big Score".

Here's all I can say at the moment. It seems after Leela stated that Lars will be the only guy she'll ever love and later when she discovered that Fry is Lars, it seemed that she's now reconsidering Fry as a candidate for marriage. It used to be that Fry was pushed aside, probably for the fact that she always thought that he wouldn't be fitting for the role.

Reply for Archonix: No, I do not think it would be a good idea to make their marriage into something similar to "Married with Children". If you don't know already, that same idea was already done for a television show, and it was also already spoofed by Futurama.

Also, where did you hear that the last episode was supposed to resolve the Fry and Leela relationship? A year or so ago, I remember that Ralph Snart posted that he had some inside information, but I don't think the information he got was accurate.
Sine Wave

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #684 on: 12-04-2007 17:19 »

I think it was in an interview or two a while back, possibly with DXC.
km73

Space Pope
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« Reply #685 on: 12-04-2007 17:56 »

Yeah, I can't get any more specific than that either but both MG and DXC had said so, in at least one interview.

I really can't quite see Leela as Al Bundy, but it's true that Futurama always had the reversal of character archetypes. However toward the end of the series Fry became more and more helpful towards Leela also. Which is one reason why I didn't really feel that he needed to "mature" much more than he already did. In the future, I wonder how they are going to show him "maturing" further without completely ruining the character.
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #686 on: 12-04-2007 18:24 »

I just thought it was a funny gag, that's all...  smile

Fry just needs to learn when to switch off the silliness. He still has moments when he'll act like an idiot for no reason. Maturity is knowing when to stop.  smile
coldangel

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« Reply #687 on: 12-04-2007 18:37 »

But Fry's lack of impulse control and general childlike delight in being a fucknob are actually catalyzing agents that have always encouraged boring stoic Leela to live a little. I think she'd actually be screwed (not literally) if he lost any of that - she needs him to be what he is... Just as he needs her to be his common-sense counterweight... Yin & Yang, and all that.

I haven't seen Big Score. I hate you all.
Bendersfan1221

Space Pope
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« Reply #688 on: 12-04-2007 18:57 »

That sucks. Get a region free DVD player, then buy Bender's Big Score off of Amazon.
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #689 on: 12-04-2007 19:03 »

I think that would require having money.
Bendersfan1221

Space Pope
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« Reply #690 on: 12-04-2007 21:29 »
« Last Edit on: 12-04-2007 21:29 »

That's true you need money but it's worth spending the money.
HipNoJoe
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #691 on: 12-04-2007 22:28 »

I'm afraid that no matter how fresh an idea it might be for Fry and Leela to get engaged/married or just move in together, it won't happen.  One would think that since Cohen and Groening have reached mid-life they would realize that marriage is not the same as riding off into the sunset like the end of an old time movie but it is more like starting a new chapter with its own ups and downs.  They probably are well aware of this but for some reason can't or won't cross that bridge in the case of Fry and Leela. 

I can't quote the exact source either, but I recall Cohen saying at the end of the first go-round of the series that if they had a chance to do the end again they would write the last episode first and then hold off the production of that until the last minute when they knew for sure it would be the final episode. This would allow them to tie up the relationship arc properly.

Of course I hoped the post mortem renewal would have changed their minds on that, but I now don't think we are any more likely to see Fry and Leela in universe A getting together before the last scene than we are likely to see the coyote catch the road runner, Elmer Fudd shoot Bugs Bunny or Charlie Brown kick the football. God, I hope I'm wrong.
Frisco17

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« Reply #692 on: 12-04-2007 22:52 »

I once thought as you do HipNoJoe. Cynical and pessimistic. By not long ago I mean before I saw BBS and after I saw that bubble picture. Damn was I wrong.

I don't think they'd pull the same tired old marriage stuff, they have a history of writing that just puts them above that in my mind. I never said it has to be marriage either, just the two of them going out would be hilariuos. Think of all the akward places that could go!

I think it was Ralph who mentioned Bender's jealousy if he lost Fry. I thought about that in the past and always thought it would be great. I can just see him coming up with some ridiculously complicated scheme to either break them up or try and get Leela shipped to Io or something. Comedic gold.
km73

Space Pope
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« Reply #693 on: 12-05-2007 07:36 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
But Fry's lack of impulse control and general childlike delight in being a fucknob are actually catalyzing agents that have always encouraged boring stoic Leela to live a little. I think she'd actually be screwed (not literally) if he lost any of that - she needs him to be what he is... Just as he needs her to be his common-sense counterweight... Yin & Yang, and all that.

Awesomely expressed. Yes, pun intended. The way they were portrayed throughout most of the series, they balance each other pretty well...I suppose it's a bit simplistic to look at it that way but she needed his spontaneity and he needed her level-headedness. And, again, on a basic characterization level I wouldn't really want to see Fry getting any more sensible or practical. Not if it would mean he wouldn't say things like "No I'm doesn't" anymore...

As for not having seen the movie yet...have you looked any more into changing the codes to make the DVD player region-free..? Then you could just order the DVD...If it's any consolation, gaschief hasn't seen it yet either.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frisco17:
I think it was Ralph who mentioned Bender's jealousy if he lost Fry. I thought about that in the past and always thought it would be great. I can just see him coming up with some ridiculously complicated scheme to either break them up or try and get Leela shipped to Io or something.

That would be good for one, maybe two episodes. What would they do after that?  hmpf
bend_her

Professor
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« Reply #694 on: 12-05-2007 10:02 »

 
Quote
That would be good for one, maybe two episodes. What would they do after that?
Have some faith in the writers. If they could come up with a time-travel spaghetti story like BBS, this should be a piece of cake.

Sneak peak at "sober Fry": when he thinks he's a robot. Actually, that was kinda fun!
JustNibblin

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #695 on: 12-05-2007 14:13 »

I think the problem with a Freela relationship early in Futurama is not the artistic challenge, but the target audience.  I believe Futurama's highest ratings on CN were among a "target" demographic of young males under 30.  I suspect that long experience has taught TV writers that this age group, as a whole, secretly loves romance and "getting the girl" plots, although they would never admit it.  However, they probably cannot relate to long-term relationship issues as much.  Translation--married/long-term couple humor automatically puts you into a different demographic.  That's not my personal opinion, but what I believe the logic of the thinking is.  So both DXC and MG indeed have this life experience and they and the writers could make it funny, but understandably they won't risk it for fear of losing a key demographic this early into the return.

I think the Freela relationship is a bit of a problem for Futurama in that because the show had a sword over its head during the last two production seasons the writers had to accelerate the development of it (and Leela's past) in order to reach some sense of closure for the fans when the show was cancelled.  So they effectively burned through five season's worth of ideas in a season and a half.  DXC told me that most of the material for these movies is new--i.e. they had to reimagine where to take Futurama next.  To prep Futurama for the long term, they had to reset the Fry/Leela relationship somehow, for the demographic reasons I stated above.  And in the end they must have decided that the best move was to do a "hard boot", knowing that hard-core fans would forgive them, and thus permitting the romance arc to progress yet again, yet perhaps slower paced.

As for the final movie of this series, my reading of the interviews is that it will be along the line of "Devil's Hands"--it will be suggestively sweet, but leave the door open to the future.  And I agree that given the time scales of production they very well could edit the movie if a renewal decision is reached in 2008.
coldangel

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« Reply #696 on: 12-05-2007 18:35 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by km73:
 have you looked any more into changing the codes to make the DVD player region-free..? 

It looked hard, so I gave up.
Story of my life.
Frisco17

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« Reply #697 on: 12-05-2007 22:48 »
« Last Edit on: 12-05-2007 22:48 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by km73:
 That would be good for one, maybe two episodes. What would they do after that?    hmpf

That was just one of the many ideas that were mentioned. Plus we aren't the writers and past experience has taught me to trust their expertise. I would love to see the Bender jealosy plot though. I mean look how he reacted when he thought Fry would be getting his dog back. Imagine his reaction to Fry getting involved with Big Boots, as Bender would say.

Also I wasn't necisarily saying they had to have episodes with Fry and Leela together. As hilarious as that could be. They could just make it the end of the last episode, you know some kind of positive closure.
Decapodian

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #698 on: 12-06-2007 01:16 »
« Last Edit on: 12-06-2007 01:16 »

I don't think they should get married but they could go out. It could kind of be like the Eric/Donna relationship in That 70's Show.
coldangel

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« Reply #699 on: 12-06-2007 01:23 »
« Last Edit on: 12-06-2007 01:23 by coldangel_1 »

Nothing good should ever be compared to stupid sitcoms.
It should be more like the Crichton/Aeryn relationship in Farscape.
Decapodian

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #700 on: 12-06-2007 01:52 »

Bah!
Kryten

Space Pope
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« Reply #701 on: 12-06-2007 16:34 »

How about we compare it to GOOD sitcoms? So... is Fry/Leela like Sam/Diane, with a lot of heat but it never went anywhere, or is it Turk/Carla?
coldangel

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« Reply #702 on: 12-06-2007 17:13 »

...?

Err... William T. Riker and Counselor Troi? Trip Tucker and T'Pol?
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #703 on: 12-06-2007 17:16 »

Star Trek, a sitcom? I knew it!
coldangel

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« Reply #704 on: 12-06-2007 17:31 »

Some episodes...
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #705 on: 12-06-2007 17:48 »

I'd pay good money to see a laugh-track on an Original Series episode...  smile
Kryten

Space Pope
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« Reply #706 on: 12-06-2007 21:25 »
« Last Edit on: 12-06-2007 21:25 »

That episode with the space hippies was funnier than an entire season of The King of Queens.

Then again, stomach surgery is funnier than an entire season of The King of Queens.
coldangel

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« Reply #707 on: 12-06-2007 22:16 »

I find I, Mudd to be one of the funniest things ever.
Frisco17

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« Reply #708 on: 12-06-2007 22:40 »
« Last Edit on: 12-06-2007 22:40 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Archonix:
I'd pay good money to see a laugh-track on an Original Series episode...    smile

That is the greatest idea I've ever heard.   eek Thus continues our downward spiral into the ground. (Plays Top Gun themesong)
Bendersfan1221

Space Pope
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« Reply #709 on: 12-06-2007 22:54 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
I find I, Mudd to be one of the funniest things ever.

That's like my favorite episode. TOS with a laugh track would be amazing.
coldangel

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« Reply #710 on: 12-07-2007 00:42 »

Not as amazing as me.

Laugh tracks are the grimy dishonest deadweight that keeps the human race from ever ascending to the same intellectual height as the common Chimpanzee.
A curse on the imbicile who devised the damn things.
bend_her

Professor
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« Reply #711 on: 12-07-2007 03:24 »

Sometimes I feel like the world comes with a laugh track that I've somehow managed to mute.

Sam/Diane? I'm drawing a blank there. And while we're on the topic, why not Kevin/Winnie? OK, aside from the fact that Fry/Leela aren't teenagers?
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #712 on: 12-07-2007 05:16 »

They briefly were!

Which is interesting, because when Leela was a similar mental age to Fry (who obviously hadn't mentally aged much since his late teenage years) she was perfectly content to go on a date with him. Perhaps she thinks that she's simply superior to him?
coldangel

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« Reply #713 on: 12-07-2007 06:54 »

Perhaps she's absolutely right?
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #714 on: 12-07-2007 08:28 »
« Last Edit on: 12-07-2007 08:28 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Kryten:

That episode with the space hippies was funnier than an entire season of The King of Queens.

But then "Spock's Brain" was so horrible until not even CPR could save it.

But the "Space Hippie" ep - it was so bad until it was funny.  Who would have thought that David Soul, one of the Spce Hippies would have gone on to star in Starsky and Hutch?


 
Quote
Which is interesting, because when Leela was a similar mental age to Fry (who obviously hadn't mentally aged much since his late teenage years) she was perfectly content to go on a date with him. Perhaps she thinks that she's simply superior to him?

I have a different take:  Fry's from the surface, which she made absolutely clear to Moose and his girlfriend.  Fry being from the surface and dating a mutant made Leela feel superior to all the other mutants.

Leela's all about status symbols and marrying up.
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #715 on: 12-07-2007 09:34 »
« Last Edit on: 12-07-2007 09:34 »

Oh well, yes, there is that... Leela's fundamental insecurities showing through again.  smile

"Ahhh... bitter dregs." Oh wait, that was the mind controlling platonists.
Ralph Snart

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« Reply #716 on: 12-07-2007 11:10 »
« Last Edit on: 12-07-2007 11:10 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by bend_her:

Sam/Diane? I'm drawing a blank there.

Sam and Diane?  How the hell can you be in America for more than a week and not know about Sam Malone and Diane Chambers from Cheers?

Dude, I'm going to have to drive thru the snow to CSU and take you a couple of seasons of Cheers DVDs.


Ralph 'muttering something about "Kids Today" Snart
gaschief

Professor
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« Reply #717 on: 12-07-2007 12:56 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by km73:
I really can't quite see Leela as Al Bundy, but it's true that Futurama always had the reversal of character archetypes. However toward the end of the series Fry became more and more helpful towards Leela also. Which is one reason why I didn't really feel that he needed to "mature" much more than he already did. In the future, I wonder how they are going to show him "maturing" further without completely ruining the character.

As was discussed a while back, the best way Fry could mature now would be to give up the chase. Leela is messin' him around and playing him for the fool. It's time she did some of the chasing!





Gaschief AKA Karl Marx on acid!
bend_her

Professor
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« Reply #718 on: 12-07-2007 15:56 »

 
Quote
How the hell can you be in America for more than a week and not know about Sam Malone and Diane Chambers from Cheers?
Ah, you can attribute that to me not watching much TV. Don't let it reflect poorly on my generation (such as it were)

I have a theory about Fry not progressing beyond his teenage years: our bodies kinda force us through adolescence, but beyond that, a lot depends on the environment we're brought up in. It wasn't the best for Fry, whose apathetic parents were too absorbed in other pursuits to care much about how he grew up. In a sense, Fry (perhaps subconsciously) simply didn't have the need to grow past his teens. Moving to the future didn't change much, except for him *having* to grow up in order to impress Leela. Trouble is, he doesn't see it that way, to him, impressing Leela means demonstrating extraordinary skills (flying a space ship, playing an instrument). That's why I'm all excited about this whole Lars thing, it's like a lightbulb with the "ding" sound effect. I hope!
Xanfor

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« Reply #719 on: 12-07-2007 17:40 »

I wish I had a Pensieve...

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