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Author Topic: Deep Down: Fry and Leela Soul Searching  (Read 24651 times)
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Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #520 on: 11-28-2006 08:33 »

What Cyberphobia said.

Re: the One True Love thing...I think people who believe there's only One True Love out there who is "the best" for them are selling themselves short, and selling the universe short.  It's morning and I'm avoiding going to work, but I want to get paid so I'll be brief: the universe is unpredictable (thank you, Dr. Heisenberg) and infinitely varied, and life is, above all else, surprising.  More things (and more people) can make us happy than we can possibly imagine.  We love every person differently so loving more than once is more than possible, and love isn't a quantity that can be measured and counted, it's a holographic experience that cannot be quantified and ALWAYS blows expectations out of the water.  The only thing we can reasonably expect is the unexpected.

And that's the truth - PTHBPTHBPTHB!  tongue
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #521 on: 11-28-2006 08:42 »

Yeah, I like what you said, even though I think love itself is utterly pointless, that stuff about the Universe is as I see it.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #522 on: 11-28-2006 20:41 »

Methinks the fellow doth protest too much.   wink

C'mon, coldangel, we all know you're a hopeless romantic.  You hang out in the SHIPPER threads, f'cripesake.  Just give up and pin a little lace-edged, puffy red heart on your black leather sleeve, you're not fooling ANYbody here.  big grin
any1else

Space Pope
****
« Reply #523 on: 11-28-2006 22:17 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
The only thing we can reasonably expect is the unexpected.
Aww, when I was 8 I had a jumper that said 'Expect the unexpected'. I loved that thing. Damnit, why'd I have to grow?

 
Quote
More things (and more people) can make us happy than we can possibly imagine. We love every person differently so loving more than once is more than possible, and love isn't a quantity that can be measured and counted, it's a holographic experience that cannot be quantified and ALWAYS blows expectations out of the water.
I think my nanna is a real-life example of that. Last year when we visited her (she lives overseas) she was telling us how she had loved all her husbands differently, but no one more than another. She had out-lived them all, and at 91 she's onto her fourth man. "Old people can be so sweet!" Heh, she almost sounds like one of those women who gets with man after man, but she's not. At least, I don't think so...  hmpf

Well, I think it's good. Leela should be more like her, go for it even if there's a possibility it won't work out. That possibility hangs over every relationship, no matter how close those involved are.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #524 on: 11-28-2006 23:54 »

Social animals can be sweet in their way. Sometimes I almost wish I was one. Almost.
It is nice that the majority of folk can find happiness in each other, though that path is not for everyone...
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #525 on: 11-29-2006 06:42 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
What Cyberphobia said.

Shiny's back! Shiny's back! [Reads post] Oh... just a short post...[becomes hunched, as pasty he is already]...oh well..

 
Quote
Re: the One True Love thing...I think people who believe there's only One True Love out there who is "the best" for them are selling themselves short, and selling the universe short. 

Well the best is the best - can't beat the best so it is only one  smile (very funny huh).. although .. sometimes the best one could be 'has been' one... and did I always said 'True' love? The rest being fake?
[Long siiiigh]. Ohhh... was I really that blurry? It appears so. Here it goes for the last time (yeah right): You may love many times and in many ways, or not at all in your life. All I said was that one of them may be so intense that it may make or break the rest of your life. If it is extremely intense then it may make or break ... etc. Is it really so outrageous a concept? Is it New Age tommyrot, claptrap etc? Fine. But if it happens to you... I told you so ! Drop me a line sometime...(see my member details)
What you say Shiny, is optimistic - you can always do better, you can always recover from a Baaaaad Luuuv [Imitates Zapp badly - and he never said that anyway]. What I say is pessimistic - you may not be able to do better, you may not be able to recover. However my conclusion is not stop searching or give up hope, but rather be prepared to suffer- mwhahahaaa.

 
Quote
It's morning and I'm avoiding going to work, but I want to get paid so I'll be brief...

^^ Whaa...? I don't quite get it - so did you go in the end or just aksed them to send the money in your account and that took all morning ? If so, pls tell me how you did it, it may come in handy.

 
Quote
And that's the truth - PTHBPTHBPTHB!   tongue

Let me state another truth: If you use Explorer 6 and have been typing a post for 15 mins or so, be careful not to click outside the window and press BackSpace. IT WILL GO TO THE PREV PAGE AND DELETE YOUR POST. AAARRRRGGGHHHH Mr Gates I HATE YOU!


coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #526 on: 11-29-2006 06:50 »

I always have my windows maximized. nothing less will do.
Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #527 on: 11-29-2006 06:50 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_B:
 Let me state another truth: If you use Explorer 6 and have been typing a post for 15 mins or so, be careful not to click outside the window and press BackSpace. IT WILL GO TO THE PREV PAGE AND DELETE YOUR POST. AAARRRRGGGHHHH Mr Gates I HATE YOU!


You use internet explorer? Ha!
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #528 on: 11-29-2006 07:01 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Social animals can be sweet in their way. Sometimes I almost wish I was one. Almost.
It is nice that the majority of folk can find happiness in each other, though that path is not for everyone...


I'm not social either. I am not bored when alone. I do not long for another person just for social reasons. I do not exhibit that 'must mate' behaviour Shiny hypothesized for Leela (Ok she's a female mutant)...I can do without friends, relatives, etc just fine.
But tell you what (or to divagate like mad again), (and it may interest others too  wink so let them read) I have become by chance briefly interested in various types of syndromes. Well tell you what - there are some that are defined by being not social, using formal language, apparent eloquence (apparent? so you're an idiot but disguise it well ? [sigh] what a crock of..), not liking change (liking 'sameness' - sameness?), and being obsessed by some particular object... Well - that's me and you !  The world's gone syndrome-mad, we are all more or less syndromed. Not just shy or introvert, infatuated, dark, pessimistic, imaginative, preoccupied... but syndromed. Cool.
No, this isn't out of topic, it is self exploration... or so I hope

Anywayz...Fry & Leela certainly must have (or have had) some syndrome... just look..

[Disclaimer] Note that I do not aim to ridicule anyone with a true medical condition here, whether declared, secret or imagined [/Disclaimer]
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #529 on: 11-29-2006 07:05 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Cyberphobia:
 You use internet explorer? Ha!

[Bowing his head in mock shame]Yes. And I'm supposed to be (among others) an IT professional. And MS Office, and Frontpage, and whatever requires the least thinking. I have greater things to achieve such as to look for the One Hugely Intense Love, or to ascertain that I have found it (or that I have lost it). [That last part was for Shiny, she loooves that concept]
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #530 on: 11-29-2006 07:06 »
« Last Edit on: 11-29-2006 07:06 by coldangel_1 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_B:
 Note that I do not aim to ridicule anyone with a true medical condition here, whether declared, secret or imagined [/Disclaimer]


Most are imagined.
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #531 on: 11-29-2006 07:09 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
I always have my windows maximized. nothing less will do.

And I bet you Never use Backspace since your better, future self (that came back from the future to prevent you from sleeping with your g'ma so that you can be together with him in the future, did that make sense?), always knows what you're gonna write anywayz, so no Backspaces there... Whoa!
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #532 on: 11-29-2006 07:20 »
« Last Edit on: 11-29-2006 07:20 by coldangel_1 »

Eh?

Speaking of which, my latest fanfic is about time travel.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #533 on: 11-29-2006 08:38 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_B:
 Well the best is the best - can't beat the best so it is only one...You may love many times and in many ways, or not at all in your life. All I said was that one of them may be so intense that it may make or break the rest of your life. If it is extremely intense then it may make or break ... etc. Is it really so outrageous a concept?

No, it's a very common concept.  I enjoy it a lot in fiction (where it is sometimes called the One True Pairing concept...Fry and Leela are Futurama's OTP, and obviously I'm not opposed to THAT), but real life is more COMPLEX than fiction. 

Look, you can't measure "best" unless you have a linear scale on which all the competitors fall.  I'm saying that love is NOT plottable on a linear scale because each love is different in kind as WELL as different in intensity.  It's not even apples and oranges...it's apples and diamonds.  Or a magnificent waterfall vs. The Lord of the Rings. I love Futurama, and I love my dog.  Which is better?  It's a meaningless question!  Each is great in a totally different way!

 
Quote
What you say Shiny, is optimistic - you can always do better...

NOT better!  Get off the digital thing, the universe is analog.  What, you think Love consists of generic "love units," and that you can measure the total L.U. outputs of each relationship over time?

 
Quote
you can always recover from a Baaaaad Luuuv...What I say is pessimistic - you may not be able to do better, you may not be able to recover.

Pfft.  Human beings can recover from FAR worse than a Bad Luv.  And I AM a pessimist - I have just learned that the more I get convinced of something hopeless, the more the universe delights in pointing out reasons for hope.

And for the last time, NIX the Newtonian-universe "better" crap.  It's not doing "better," it's doing Good again,  without being able to measure the relative Goods against each other.

 
Quote
However my conclusion is not stop searching or give up hope, but rather be prepared to suffer- mwhahahaaa.

Oh, I'm prepared to suffer.  Trust me.  But after pain, even the worst pain, there can come Joy again.  Life is just like that.

 
Quote
^^ Whaa...? I don't quite get it - so did you go in the end or just aksed them to send the money in your account and that took all morning ? If so, pls tell me how you did it, it may come in handy.

I mean, I'm avoiding the inevitable minute when I have to stop writing and put on clothes, but I can't avoid it TOO long or I'll be late enough to get docked precious, valuable minutes.

Like now.  Gotta go! 

FENIX

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #534 on: 11-29-2006 08:55 »

I agree with Shiny, there is not direct scale saying "This is Good, that's Bad" as if the whole universe were to switch to binary.  There are an infinate numbder of experiences, yes, some are one or the other, but there is a scale of goodness? How could you possibly compare one love to another? Egsistence is a balance of both, and yes, no-body is perfect (unless of course you are SEVERLY egotistical, or COLDANGEL) and if everything was good and wholesome in the world it would be so boring (and I'd be out of a Job).  I've always felt that's why they call it Making Love, it takes work and dedication, and if you aint prepared or willing to gamble you'll have a very poor life indeed.  Some can hurt you, really bad, but it's how you deal with it that defines you.  When it comes down to the crunch, what you gonna do? Curl up in a ball and hide for the rest of your life? Or get out there and kick some ass!

It aint easy, I know, but nothing really is (unless it that jigsaw I did yesterday, it were 20pieces and it were a bear in a garden.  No! It weren't mine..... ermm.... some Iraqi kids couldn't do it so I offered to help).  And if you think it bad to lose a lover, you aint never lost a friend.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #535 on: 11-29-2006 10:10 »

I like the chaos theory angle this is taking.
Chaos makes me horny.
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #536 on: 11-29-2006 17:27 »

Well, at least we know what coldangel is doing when he's reading these posts...
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #537 on: 11-29-2006 20:06 »

(Usually eating toast actually, but don't let that spoil the illusion.)
Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #538 on: 11-30-2006 00:43 »

Damn you people! I was enjoying my ice cream a moment ago.
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #539 on: 11-30-2006 05:06 »
« Last Edit on: 11-30-2006 05:06 »

Shiny once said:
 
Quote
Pfft. Human beings can recover from FAR worse than a Bad Luv.

Shiny, a quick point: some people cannot recover because e.g. it's too late (i.e. they're going to die for some reason soon) or because... they commit suicide or go nutz. That is why it is really good to use 'may' and 'could' and so on.

 
Quote
NOT better! Get off the digital thing, the universe is analog.

Yes life is more complex, you love different beings in different ways, (sometimes you love and hate them at the same time?) I can't see however how digital vs analog relates to the 'no better' - you can have better in both analog and digital -digital is just a simplification of reality to an acceptable tolerance - but definitely you can compare in analog - that is humanity did before A/D converters were invented!

[@ FENIX] And Fenix, AFAIK Binary is not equivalent to Digital. BINARY is e.g. what GW 'Monkee' Bush thinks in - Black & White, Bad & Good, Them & Us, The Axis of Evil is Bad, The Coalition of the Willing is Good. Great thinking. Have a Banana. Have Two!

 
Quote
But after pain, even the worst pain, there can come Joy again. Life is just like that.

Aha...So pain can be measured but love cannot...unless it's a type of ..pain?   smile...Ok, I'll cut that out, it;s getting nowhere.

Shiny, I'm afraid you're not a true pessimist, just like ColdAngel is not really like ... the mask he puts on for these threads (remember that mask discussion?). A true pessimist does not say 'I'm sure this bad thing will happen... I told you' and then he also adds 'but I will recover'. In my opinion a seasoned pessimist goes 'I live with it. It's not easy. Worse will come. I told you!'.  You know how I know ? Because that is what I say   smile. Oh, and also - yes there are some UPs, but only to almost immediately be annihilated (or more often, dwarfed) by DOWNs.

Sounds good?

[EDIT] And Shiny - congrats on becoming a professor! ColdAngel, I can't congratulate you often enough, it seems you are enjoying a meteoric rise in rank. Sincerely, your Bending Unit (going to enjoy some wholesome, nourishing...brain cell-powering... alcohol)
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #540 on: 11-30-2006 05:56 »

It seems I have become a yardstick for the measurement of personality types. Thus fulfilling one of my earliest childhood ambitions. Hooray for me.
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #541 on: 11-30-2006 06:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Tastes Like Fry:
Damn you people! I was enjoying my ice cream a moment ago.

Well what kind of ice cream was it I almost aksed that  smile

Sooooo... Love's Labour...[today's ep in Aust] ..an interesting ep about Leela's personal life ... and time to put up some evocative screencaps:



She looks really happy...





and he's a STUD!

BTW - here comes the question - PEELadies, do you find Zapp attractive (use the picture above)? C'mon, Fry has a belly as well and someone was saying here somewhere she prefers plain Fry to Fry++ anytime - was that physical as well? In real life men do have a bit of belly, especially the important ones  smile

============
Ok, well in fact it appears Fry did get lucky before with that 21st century girl - so at that point really, it was errr...each crew member for him/herself...

And yes, Leela seemed mesmerized by the snappy dressed Zapp and his fame. And yes again, Leela changed course suddenly after Zapp yelled the 'I'm soo loonely' catch phrase. I guess Shiny explained it all already..
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #542 on: 11-30-2006 06:44 »
« Last Edit on: 11-30-2006 06:44 »

FryB: By "worst pain" I meant "worst pain(s) you can imagine."  All extreme pain is "the worst" to whoever's experiencing it.  No actual comparison of pains was meant.

   
Quote
some people cannot recover because e.g. it's too late (i.e. they're going to die for some reason soon)...

    roll eyes Okay, yeah - if you get hit by a car and die right after an emotional trauma, then you're not going to recover from that trauma.  You got me there. 

But notice, I said CAN recover, not WILL recover.  The potential for emotional recovery is not related to whatever random events MIGHT occur around the person.  That's like saying that So-and-So couldn't have survived a treatable cancer because after he was diagnosed he wrecked his car and died.  He didn't die FROM the cancer, so that doesn't mean squat about the survivability of his cancer, or lack thereof. 

   
Quote
or because... they commit suicide or go nutz.

That is a decision they're making.  Yes, even going nuts (the kind you're talking about - we were talking about Bad Luv, remember) involves decision.  And I never said a person couldn't choose to "not survive" something.    Our hypothetical guy with cancer could choose to drown himself rather than go through chemo, but that doesn't mean the CANCER killed him. 

Survival (in these terms - obviously I'm not talking about massive bodily harm kinds of damage) is a matter of being willing to survive, being willing to face and suffer the pain rather than run away from it ( "going mad" is a type of running away).  All I'm saying is that IF you're willing to choose to try, survival and new happiness IS possible to achieve.  I'm saying anyone CAN choose it - not that everyone WILL.

Tastes Like Fry

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #543 on: 11-30-2006 07:01 »

Fry's belly isn't that big, lookie;


Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #544 on: 11-30-2006 07:43 »

I don't find Zapp attractive. Fry is only a bit overweight. Zapp's a bit more overweight I think. And I really don't like Zapp's hair. Fry has a better hair style. And Zapp's like too tall and bulky sorta and Fry is more normal size. (I'm really short, so I don't want a really tall, large guy).
jle1993

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #545 on: 11-30-2006 14:19 »

Fry is cute, nice, caring, and a bit dumb
Zapp is stupid, nasty, a user and I just really don't like him
Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #546 on: 11-30-2006 17:38 »

Oh, are we talking about physically attractive or personality attractive? Because Fry is obviously better personality-wise.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #547 on: 11-30-2006 20:01 »
« Last Edit on: 11-30-2006 20:01 »

Physically, from the pecs up anyway, Zapp is reasonably attractive.  He's not my type, though, and the minute he opens his mouth, he becomes the antimatter of my type.

Fry is (again, physically) reasonably attractive. I suppose by cultural standards, he'd score below Zapp, though not by much.  But even putting personality aside, he's much more my own favorite type, so I'd rank him above Zapp anyway.    wink
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #548 on: 12-01-2006 00:16 »
« Last Edit on: 12-01-2006 00:16 »

I don't find Zapp very attractive (I'm speaking only physically right now though in personality he's even more repulsive.)  His hair is too neat and... well just a bad hair style.  I find the messier looking hair more attractive. 

And Zapps belly is bigger than Fry's.
So i'll have to go for this:

over this....


Fry's the cute type.  Zapp could possibly be considered more of the handsome type(i guess... puke ), but you'd never call him cute and those cute ones are the ones i got for tongue.  Don't know if i'm describing this right...
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #549 on: 12-01-2006 00:17 »

They're both rather simplistic line drawings.
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #550 on: 12-01-2006 00:38 »
« Last Edit on: 12-01-2006 00:38 »

Shut up  tongue

If all the guys off peel can lust after Leela, why can't we find Fry cute?

Anyways, I think if you reversed Fry and Zapps personalities then Zapp would come out on top of this looks comparison.  Someone's personality can change the way you see the person entirely.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #551 on: 12-01-2006 00:39 »

You know Zapp wears a toupee. It comes off in 'Kif Gets Knocked-Up a Notch' during the hull breech scene.
Demeter

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #552 on: 12-01-2006 00:46 »

Cute generally means Ugly but Interesting...

Just thought you all ought to know X3

Zapp is chauvanistic (can't spell XP) and Fry isdim-witted. Leela would feel smart with eaither guy, but Fry is bearable. Therefore Fry over Zapp. WHat was the point of this threwad again? Sory T_T
fryandlemon

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #553 on: 12-01-2006 00:50 »

Cute means ugly but interesting?

"1. attractive, esp. in a dainty way; pleasingly pretty: a cute child; a cute little apartment."
 http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cute

Don't see ugly anywhere there.  Where did you hear that?

I've always known it as as attractive, in a sutler way kind of, but never ugly...
Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #554 on: 12-01-2006 02:09 »

Cute is definitely not 'ugly but interesting'. Cute is like good looking in an 'awwww' way. Like good looking but not sexy. Also a bit smaller usually.
Demeter

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #555 on: 12-01-2006 02:12 »
« Last Edit on: 12-01-2006 02:12 »

It's a saying, geeze lol. I wasn't quoting a dictionary or anything :P
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #556 on: 12-01-2006 04:50 »
« Last Edit on: 12-01-2006 04:50 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Demeter:
It's a saying, geeze lol. I wasn't quoting a dictionary or anything :P

Ahaaaaa... you better.. to answer your question, this is the thread of the weirdos that speak from dictionaries, of the young and... the time-forgotten young at heart, of the dark Demi-Gods, of the self-analysis by proxy, of the nothing better to do between shifts, of the place to hide from undesirables; it is also the thread where you may try to relate Fry and Leela's personalities, experiences and their relationship to yourself... did I miss anything anyone ? I sure did... sorry.

Seriously Demeter (Cool name!), welcome to the thread... WAIT! (cloud of smoke) ..Ohh.... Where did she go? (Looking to the others) Wha'? What did I do ?

Geez... I'm a bit sad - was this really the last workdaily (a word I say!) episode of Futurama on TEN? And Holy Molly I did not see Fear of a Bot Planet before ? I really have to go through the DVDs (slams head against desk, taking care not to hit the keyboard and *again* delete the post @##$$%)

EDIT: Spellcheck, closing brackets... you're getting old, F_B..
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #557 on: 12-01-2006 05:05 »
« Last Edit on: 12-01-2006 05:05 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
FryB: By "worst pain" I meant "worst pain(s) you can imagine."  All extreme pain is "the worst" to whoever's experiencing it.  No actual comparison of pains was meant.

Ummm... Ok I guess.. (he is puzzled but puts on a poker face)..Aha..

Shiny, yes I was a bit picky, sorry... I do not intend to strecth an argument to the absurd, rolleyes accepted.

But (oh no here he goes again) I hope you see that your points about being able to recover and so on do ooze a prudent optimism...

Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #558 on: 12-01-2006 06:37 »

Aaaand my third consecutive post..sorry as I mentioned my only time to post is at night, before I crawl to the bed and blank out...

Thanks for your replies everyone... vey interesting indeed. Ok, Zapp's character is not a pretty place. So I did not expect anyone to like that. Zapp was built to be a bufoon - he can't help it. But some - or many - men in reality are 'like' him - of course reality is more complex (yes, yes, Shiny). Still, they are married and/or have girlfriends (did you like the and in the and/or?). How come? (duck!)

Physically though... yes Zapp is bigger and has a larger belly and a funny haircut, but kost of these reasons have to do with age, evolution and maturity - I believe. E.g. I used to like greasy hair (make your own grease- ugh), then I shaved my head, now I like very short hair... then I'll go bald. So...

As for Fry, yes he is cute, caring, importantly he is not a coward - but he 1) needs serious opposition (such as a PEEL thread suggests) to squeeze bring out the best in him and 2) needs to grow up just a little more and stand up to Leela at times - I am sure whe would love that. (Ask CA about details on Fry standing (or not) up to Leela)

You see, I believe (whoa, tread carefully, F_B) women, regardless of how independent and powerful, (consciously or not) still like to lean on a man every now and then, and to be - at times - even dominated by a man. It's the way men and women are built. And the way society teaches us men and women should behave. And why not?

[Advice]
So yeah, Fry, in the next eps be daring - break Zapp's nose (for real, not just in fanfics) at his next remark on Leela; shape up, send your love to surround her without using worms or devilish hands; and embrace Leela and KISS her damnit - even if you get slapped (nah, you won't, she'll fight a bit (weakly) and then MELT). Act more like a man and less like a boy (although DON'T LOSE all of that boyish charm for heaven's sake - she loves it and so do the PEELadies here, see?). And she'll be YOURS. Forever and ever.
[/Advice]
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #559 on: 12-01-2006 08:22 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_B:
You see, I believe (whoa, tread carefully, F_B) women, regardless of how independent and powerful, (consciously or not) still like to lean on a man every now and then, and to be - at times - even dominated by a man. It's the way men and women are built. And the way society teaches us men and women should behave. And why not?


Heh... well Fry_B... prepare to be screeched at.
I don't disagree... but I know what happened when I said similar things.
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