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Author Topic: Deep Down: Fry and Leela Soul Searching  (Read 25822 times)
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any1else

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« Reply #200 on: 11-09-2006 07:14 »

Peh. Humans.  roll eyes When will they learn that there's nothing stupider than themselves?
coldangel

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« Reply #201 on: 11-09-2006 08:30 »
« Last Edit on: 11-09-2006 08:30 by coldangel_1 »


Passion is like energy - it cannot be created or destroyed (thermodynamics, kids  smile ), it can only change form. The failure of great passion sees it change to bitterness and resentment, because the presence of a great mass of *something* cannot suddenly cease without causing backlash. Positive to negative, or an intense vacuum.
Perhaps physics isn't the best metaphor...

How 'bout biology?
Healthy love is like perfect cell mitosis. Continually dividing, blooming, replenishing. When it goes bad it doesn't just stop - the cell division becomes uncontrolled - mutated cells begin dividing at an accellerated rate, their genetic encoding corrupted. They begin spreading out and poisoning healthy flesh. This is cancer.
In order for life to bloom, cells must divide, but with every cell division there comes the risk of an error in the replication process, and a compounding of that error over and over until the entire organism is rife with tumours and it dies bleeding from the anus.

See what I mean?
Fry_B

Bending Unit
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« Reply #202 on: 11-09-2006 16:50 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:

Passion is like energy - it cannot be created or destroyed (thermodynamics, kids   smile ), it can only change form. The failure of great passion sees it change to bitterness and resentment, because the presence of a great mass of *something* cannot suddenly cease without causing backlash. Positive to negative, or an intense vacuum.
Perhaps physics isn't the best metaphor...

How 'bout biology?
Healthy love is like perfect cell mitosis. Continually dividing, blooming, replenishing. When it goes bad it doesn't just stop - the cell division becomes uncontrolled - mutated cells begin dividing at an accellerated rate, their genetic encoding corrupted. They begin spreading out and poisoning healthy flesh. This is cancer.
In order for life to bloom, cells must divide, but with every cell division there comes the risk of an error in the replication process, and a compounding of that error over and over until the entire organism is rife with tumours and it dies bleeding from the anus.

See what I mean?

Eeeexcellent...Taking out the anus part (which is in fact true)... very good analogies. That is what I meant and that is what that fic idea would be based on. It would not be pretty reading, but does everything have to be pretty or have a happy-end ?

They say in each life you get to really love someone only once, if you are lucky to find that someone. That is when the passion flares. Given it's deep enough, it'll either make the rest of your life worth living (no matter what other irrelevant cr*p happens) or, if it goes wrong, will scar you for the rest of your life.

So I don't know... There is a great danger you will go nutz  smile if it all goes wrong - but I believe it's worth looking for it.

I can relate this concept to Leela's situation very well... She may have even thought she has found love a few times, but the passion wasn't there (or not enough) so she was injured, but survived. However - should she eventually let go in Fry's case, that love will be hot and deep and dangerous. Should it fail... read the fic idea for the consequences.

I doubt the writers would take the risk of ever animating this kind of love in Futurama - which is unfortunate (especially for the more mature audience - remember people in thgeir 40s watch it) but hey... it is a cartoon...

coldangel

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« Reply #203 on: 11-09-2006 18:25 »

Don't do it, dude. It's too much like real life, and fiction is supposed to be your escape route from real life. Well I wouldn't write a fic like that without a happy resolution, or at least a neutral ambiguous 'everything back to the way it was' resolution.
And I'm supposed to be the dark one...

...heh heh 'Dark One'... makes me sound like Skeletor, or some kind of Sith Lord... trying to get all the mortals to bow down to me.
Fry_B

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« Reply #204 on: 11-09-2006 19:44 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Don't do it, dude. It's too much like real life, and fiction is supposed to be your escape route from real life. Well I wouldn't write a fic like that without a happy resolution, or at least a neutral ambiguous 'everything back to the way it was' resolution.


Yeah, I suppose you're right... remember The Sting appeared to also picture an irreversible tragedy - Fry was dead and everything, but with a spectacular twist everything was the back to normal (well sort of). Yes, you were given hints that he may be alive and all that... 

The same can be done in this case of course... One would need lots of courage and talent (and sweat) to do it properly though... (the result could be either utter cr*p or excellent I guess).

BTW Have you watched the first eps of resurrected Battlestar Galactica ?  It surprised even me (I am very skeptical of happy endings) on how dark it was... still people watched it...
coldangel

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« Reply #205 on: 11-09-2006 20:01 »

Just as long as you don't go the 'it was all a dream' angle.
Shiny

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« Reply #206 on: 11-09-2006 21:06 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_B:
...that is what that fic idea would be based on. It would not be pretty reading, but does everything have to be pretty or have a happy-end ?

Yes, damn it, YES! 

Okay, no.  But Futurama does have a hopeful outlook, for the most part; changing that makes it something other than "Futurama."

 
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They say in each life you get to really love someone only once, if you are lucky to find that someone....

They lie.  The whole "One True Love" idea is a total fiction, because people are different and you love each one a little differently...therefore there's no reason why you can't love MORE than one over the course of a lifetime.  Likewise the "destined and only soul mate" thing is bogus...you can have multiple 'soul mates,' and not all of them are good relationships...sometimes you're karmically linked to an enemy or a rival, presumably so you can "work out your issues" with them...and even the "good soul mates" presumably have some purpose in reincarnating with you other than just enjoying more of the same. Karma is not a magical ticket to an effort-free, pain-free romance.

 
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...or, if it goes wrong, will scar you for the rest of your life....

Oh, piffle.  The only kind of romantic heartbreak that "scars you for life" is that which you repress, ignore, or blame entirely on "the other guy."  People have survived concentration camps and still found goodness, love, and joy in their later lives; a nasty break-up is only going to cripple you if you let it.

 
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So I don't know... There is a great danger you will go nutz if it all goes wrong - but I believe it's worth looking for it.

Good for you!  But it's not that dire.  You won't go nuts, you'll just feel like crap for a few months and you'll have to expend some effort dealing with it...but it DOES get better.

 
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I doubt the writers would take the risk of ever animating this kind of love in Futurama - which is unfortunate (especially for the more mature audience - remember people in thgeir 40s watch it) but hey... it is a cartoon...

"Mature" doesn't have to mean "depressing."    Futurama is just not that dark of a show..."Jurassic Bark" is about as dark as they get, and more often the message in an episode is one of qualified hope.  Some of us  LIKE it that way, even those who are gettin' on in years....people in their 40's deserve hopeful endings, too! 

 
Quote
BTW Have you watched the first eps of resurrected Battlestar Galactica ?  It surprised even me (I am very skeptical of happy endings) on how dark it was... still people watched it...

Yeah, but the new BSG began dark.  If something begins that way, you know what you're up against.  Futurama just doesn't exist in the kind of gritty, realistic reality that BSG does.  To push it in that direction, it would have to become another thing entirely.

I'm cool with dark being on TV, I'm glad its out there for the people who really thrive it, and I think there's a lot more Americans who like it than the numbskull executives in Hollywood think (Hey, Oz was a hit).  But for my own personal viewing, I only want darkness in carefully measured doses, and I like to know what I'm getting into ahead of time.  I've watched and enjoyed dark shows full of gritty reality, but that's not what I expect, or want, from Futurama.  I watch Futurama for the humor, the absurdity, the geekiness, and the ultimate sense of hope that most of it leaves you with.  I can handle a few sad endings scattered throughout, but I don't want it to stop being the show I already know and love as it is.

coldangel

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« Reply #207 on: 11-09-2006 21:33 »

I was scarred for life this morning.
There's a picture of the injury in my art thread.
That's the only kind of scarring I acknowledge. All else is just self-indulgent and above all - WEAK.

Re dark, grittiness. Futurama has a format that could allow for occassional forays into murk if the writers felt inclined, because it could always return to frothiness in the next episode.
Shiny

Professor
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« Reply #208 on: 11-09-2006 23:40 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
I was scarred for life this morning.
There's a picture of the injury in my art thread.
That's the only kind of scarring I acknowledge. All else is just self-indulgent and above all - WEAK.

Dude - you always gotta take it and run a mile or two past the end zone, don't you?  wink

I was speaking of relationship-based "scarring" between adults (or near enough) in a (most likely) Western country.  To go back to my concentration camp example...not EVERYONE who lived through one was able to recover emotionally...I find it incredibly hopeful that some did, but you don't find me blaming the ones that didn't, or calling them "weak."  I also said nothing about emotional trauma based on terror, death, assault, kidnapping, imprisonment, slavery, or warfare...and nothing about emotional injuries that happen in childhood - when you're essentially "owned" by others, AND you just don't have the development to handle some things even in the best of circumstances.

Emotional scarring is real and has little to do with "weakness" and everything to do luck - what happens to you and what/who you have to help you deal with it.  I'm just saying that, for adults (in a reasonably free country, who have NOT suffered from tragedy, war, abuse or violent crime) bad breakups in  romantic relationships are not emotionally crippling trauma...IF they're willing to go to a little bit of effort to cope.


Any episodic TV show can alternate serious with frothy episodes...but you gotta have SOME sense of continuity, some feeling of "this is the same universe" from week to week, or you're really just doing an anthology show (like Twilight Zone) where they're too lazy to make up new names for the characters all the time.  Futurama's universe can be happy, sad, triumphant or tragic, but usually there's some kind of mixture, and the overriding factor, present in EVERY episode, is absurdity.  The grim love-to-hate relationship, if done realistically, would have to lose the absurdism factor...and then Futurama's universe would be warped to the breaking point.  Essentially, it would be a different show.  And gosh, if you want a different show, just rename the characters and do a completely different show.  But leave Futurama for those of us who prefer  the show it is now.  big grin

coldangel

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« Reply #209 on: 11-10-2006 00:07 »

Bah! People are so self-absorbed in the western world, it's a symptom of decadent luxury. Out in the REAL world, they just move along and get by as best they can. I've been and stayed for a while. There's no 'support groups' sitting around and prattling about each other's 'issues' and crap like that. It's buck up, get your shit together, stop whining, or die. The way real life should be.

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Different show, eh... hmmm... I'm having one of those things... like a headache with pictures...
A Futurama adaptation... in a different animated medium... say Japanese Amime. Call it 'Planet Express'. A deep psychological action/adventure series... full of blood and horror and tears and mild nudity. I'd watch it, how' bout you? Could be an interesting alternate take on an established universe.
The continuity in Futurama is good. The Simpsons doesn't have the same feel of an ongoing saga. Very few occurences in The Simpsons are carried through to subsequent episodes. Lisa became a vegetarian and Flanders' wife died... that's about all I can think of. With Futurama, things that happened in episodes are carried over and form part of a rich tapestry.
Apple Tea

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« Reply #210 on: 11-10-2006 02:36 »

 
Quote
A Futurama adaptation... in a different animated medium... say Japanese Amime. Call it 'Planet Express'.
It can have super battling seizure robots.

 
Quote
Bah! People are so self-absorbed in the western world, it's a symptom of decadent luxury. Out in the REAL world, they just move along and get by as best they can. I've been and stayed for a while. There's no 'support groups' sitting around and prattling about each other's 'issues' and crap like that. It's buck up, get your shit together, stop whining, or die. The way real life should be.
Yes I agree we are self-absorbed, sometimes I fear  some of the people I know seem to have shallow values. But not all of us are like that.
coldangel

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« Reply #211 on: 11-10-2006 03:20 »

A Futurama adaptation... in a different animated medium... say Japanese Amime. Call it 'Planet Express'.

And here is what it might look like:

Apple Tea

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« Reply #212 on: 11-10-2006 05:07 »

Ooo nice pic, what happened to Zoidberg there?
coldangel

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« Reply #213 on: 11-10-2006 05:10 »

Iunno... he's foraging...
Fry_B

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« Reply #214 on: 11-10-2006 07:55 »
« Last Edit on: 11-10-2006 07:55 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
 
...snip snip and more snip...
...  The grim love-to-hate relationship, if done realistically, would have to lose the absurdism factor...and then Futurama's universe would be warped to the breaking point.  Essentially, it would be a different show.  And gosh, if you want a different show, just rename the characters and do a completely different show.  But leave Futurama for those of us who prefer  the show it is now.    big grin


Whoa... Shiny, did I push some buttons there.. I am kind of surprised by this 'don't touch the show you brute' attitude. Rest assured I wasn't about to talk to Matt about changing things ...

Look, people are different. I watch the same Futurama episode you do and see a different thing. I see the darkness. You see the absurdity. I see desperation and depression. You see hapiness and hope. Sometimes we see the same thing (fun? love?). But obviously, mostly we don't. Does that make me less of a Futurama fan? Less of a Futurama 'shipper' maybe? Will the Futurama Police lightsaber me for that?

Suppose I (or someone really talented - hehe) go(es) ahead and develop(s) that idea. Will that destroy the Futurama world ? A non-canon fic ? Suppose a final twist changes the end from desperately hopeless to overly optimistic and happy, or to 'what might have happened' in a parallel universe or... whatever. Is then the Futurama universe saved ?

Futurama is a cartoon. I feel for the storyline and characters, but more for how they could reflect real life - and I am just as interested in how we interpret what is happening - or what might happen - in Futurama, since this may also be about self-discovery. Did I hear Tommyrot?

As to the dismissal of the one true love that can make or break a life.. we sure are skeptical aren't we.... maybe we have not encountered that kind of passion yet - maybe never? Ok, look, let's just say some people want to believe it exists. And by (insert favourite God here), one should be allowed to dream about it without being ridiculed. (And in fact if this ultimate love turning to hate concept is absurd and you like Futurama for its absurdity, then ... ?)

Was that dramatic enough or should I use some more spice weasel? 

Finally, (and for no particular reason) I now remember how I got to join PEEL: by Googling around for Futurama stuff after seeing The Devil's Hands and stumbling upon 'What Might Have Happened Next'... (Audience: 'Awwwww...')
coldangel

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« Reply #215 on: 11-10-2006 08:01 »

And furthermore to what you just said - HOW SWEET DO LEELA'S BOOBS LOOK IN THAT PIC I JUST DREW!?
Fry_B

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« Reply #216 on: 11-10-2006 08:08 »

[@ ColdAngel re Pic]

Just a couple of things, ColdAngel: 1) In your drawings Fry is always upset (grrr..) and also it always sort of looks like... you and 2) Judging by your picture, soul-searching Leela could be more fun that I originally imagined..

Couldn't resist that, sorry... back to serious mode. But yes, the pic is not bad at all .
coldangel

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« Reply #217 on: 11-10-2006 08:12 »

Because I guess at a subconscious level like to put myself in the shoes of male protagonists... especially when they have a buxxom romantic interest. This is because I'm pathetic and seek to live my life through fictional characters.
 Also, when I do a 'heroic' cast on a character he or she must always wear an expression of determination or anger at some unseen foe. That's a prerequisite.

I've done romantic ones where his expression is a lot softer.
Fry_B

Bending Unit
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« Reply #218 on: 11-10-2006 08:13 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
And furthermore to what you just said - HOW SWEET DO LEELA'S BOOBS LOOK IN THAT PIC I JUST DREW!?


COLDANGEL ! I am serious here, Seriously. Get those boobs outta my face, I gotta prepare for Shiny's counter-attack. Ok - armour, check. Er... ?

coldangel

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« Reply #219 on: 11-10-2006 08:15 »

You're missing the cod-piece.
Fry_B

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« Reply #220 on: 11-10-2006 08:18 »
« Last Edit on: 11-10-2006 08:18 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Because I guess at a subconscious level like to put myself in the shoes of male protagonists... especially when they have a buxxom romantic interest. This is because I'm pathetic and seek to live my life through fictional characters.
 Also, when I do a 'heroic' cast on a character he or she must always wear an expression of determination or anger at some unseen foe. That's a prerequisite.

I've done romantic ones where his expression is a lot softer.

ColdAngel... you are an interesting character. And honestly, about 100 posts earlier... you would probably scare me at midnight, but I would probably turn into stone if I saw myself at that hour... That was a compliment.

[EDIT] YAAAAAAWN... OK, hit the decks PE crew downunder !
coldangel

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« Reply #221 on: 11-10-2006 08:21 »

Thanks bro. Nobody's ever called me interesting before without adding the word 'specimen'.
Shiny

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« Reply #222 on: 11-10-2006 09:24 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Bah! People are so self-absorbed in the western world, it's a symptom of decadent luxury. Out in the REAL world, they just move along and get by as best they can. I've been and stayed for a while. There's no 'support groups' sitting around and prattling about each other's 'issues' and crap like that. It's buck up, get your shit together, stop whining, or die. The way real life should be.

By the "real" world, you mean the world where people barely scratch out a living...and so OF COURSE that's all they care about!  People can't worry about their mental, emotional, or spiritual state while their body's needs aren't meant.  That's the whole concept behind Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

Of course, people who are prosperous are going to turn their attention to "less important" issues, like happiness, love, and enlightenment.  I don't think of that as self-indulgent, I think of that as being lucky enough to have that luxury, and wish the people scrabbling for survival elswhere had that chance.


 
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_B:
  Whoa... Shiny, did I push some buttons there.. I am kind of surprised by this 'don't touch the show you brute'  attitude...

Well, I didn't mean to come off as THAT harsh.  Sorry.

 
Quote
I watch the same Futurama episode you do and see a different thing. I see the darkness. You see the absurdity. I see desperation and depression. You see hapiness and hope.

Yes, I know.  People see different things...but the source material is NOT infinitely malleable...there's still a pattern of continuity there.  Sometimes (for instance) Venus, in her "Sixteen Days," has Fry doing things I wouldn't have thought to have him do...but I can easily trace the "precursors" of his behavior to the episodes.  'Her Fry' isn't always identical to 'my Fry' but he is still FRY, recognizable from the series.

 
Quote
Sometimes we see the same thing (fun? love?). But obviously, mostly we don't. Does that make me less of a Futurama fan? Less of a Futurama 'shipper' maybe? Will the Futurama Police lightsaber me for that?

Of course not...but, like I do with Kubrick's version of The Shining, I have to wonder: if there's SO LITTLE of the source material that you like that you have to alter vast and vital parts of it to tell YOUR version, why do you bother using another person's work for a basis at all?  Fan fiction seems to me to be pointless unless its driven by an overriding love of the source material, as it is...sure, one might take a lame show (like, say, the original Battlestar Galactica, much as I liked it then) and "reimagine" it as something new and better...but Futurama is not a "flawed original" that needs "fixing."  Futurama is excellent as it is, and I just don't GET the urge to make it into something it's not. 

 
Quote
Suppose I (or someone really talented - hehe) go(es) ahead and develop(s) that idea. Will that destroy the Futurama world ? A non-canon fic ?

No, of course not.  "Universe of Malice" did that, and it has many fans.  And while I recognize that it's beautifully written and intensely involving, I'm not fond of it personally, because it just doesn't feel like Futurama to me.  It feels like some other universe, and seems more like original fic to me. 

 
Quote
Suppose a final twist changes the end from desperately hopeless to overly optimistic and happy, or to 'what might have happened' in a parallel universe or... whatever. Is then the Futurama universe saved ?

Of course not.  The whole project would have departed anything resembling "Futurama" ages before.

 
Quote
Futurama is a cartoon. I feel for the storyline and characters, but more for how they could reflect real life - and I am just as interested in how we interpret what is happening - or what might happen - in Futurama, since this may also be about self-discovery. Did I hear Tommyrot?

No, Professor, it's your hearing aid acting up again.  tongue

 
Quote
As to the dismissal of the one true love that can make or break a life.. we sure are skeptical aren't we.... maybe we have not encountered that kind of passion yet - maybe never? Ok, look, let's just say some people want to believe it exists. And by (insert favourite God here), one should be allowed to dream about it without being ridiculed.

Well, if you LIKE believing that you've only got one chance at love and if you blow it you're screwed...okay, whatever floats your boat.  Personally I like thinking that after pain there is still hope of future joy.  Ridicule of you was not intended...only ridicule of the sterotypical "New Age" concept of "True Soul Mate Love" that some "special" people have and the rest of us peons don't.


 
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(And in fact if this ultimate love turning to hate concept is absurd and you like Futurama for its absurdity, then ... ?)

Absurdism comes in many flavors, like love.  The absurdism of Sarte's No Exit is not the absurdism of Futurama. 

In the end, I just say that I still don't quite "get" the idea to alter the source material TOO far from its source, if the source is of good quality to begin with.  There are numerous OTHER shows of similarly excellent but more "grim" nature (the new BSG, Firefly, Farscape, etc) if that's your "flavor of choice" in science fiction.  You're free to do anything you like in fanfic, of course, but what I'm seeking for as a reader of fanfic is, not quite "more of the same," but "more" of something that, while taking new tacks and exploring new possibilities, still feels like part of the universe where it started out from.  I don't hold this up as a "better" way to be a fan....I just don't, for myself, know any OTHER way to be one....

 
Quote
Finally, (and for no particular reason) I now remember how I got to join PEEL: by Googling around for Futurama stuff after seeing The Devil's Hands and stumbling upon 'What Might Have Happened Next'... (Audience: 'Awwwww...')

Thank you...I'm glad I was a beacon lamp to lead you here, anyway....I LIKE discussing things like this (obviously, since I've now made myself late for work replying...  roll eyes )  I hope I've explained myself more clearly, at any rate.  Well, hi-ho, off to get in trouble with my boss....  tongue

coldangel

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« Reply #223 on: 11-10-2006 09:32 »

I live now in that decadent filth luxury. I haven't turned my gaze inward. There's no future in it.
Shiny

Professor
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« Reply #224 on: 11-10-2006 13:42 »

No, but you're wasting time on a fan discussion board, debating the intricacies of the relationships of fictional cartoon characters...IMHO, that's sort of like self-exploration by proxy.  wink  And, let's face it, those starving kids in Africa would still consider it "self-indulgent intellectual claptrap." Your own navel or Fry&Leela's navels...which is the more pointless to gaze at?

Myself, I'll just do a bit of both (and feel very grateful for my good fortune, in getting five out of six numbers in the Great Womb Lottery).
Fry_B

Bending Unit
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« Reply #225 on: 11-10-2006 18:13 »
« Last Edit on: 11-10-2006 18:13 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
...IMHO, that's sort of like self-exploration by proxy.    wink 

You said in one sentence what I said in three phrases. That's it! and I am trying to (unashamedly) suck others into it as well...

Look, can we consider the whole idea as a case study into the profile of some Futurama shippers? It worked for me - the reactions were pretty similar (horror, rejection, denial - ok, I exaggerate   smile)

On choosing other sources for the purpose of warping them to mush: I do NOT watch a lot of TV, it's 1hr max per day - Futurama and news. There is no time. After a certain age, somehow the passage of time accelerates dramatically. I find it stretching to even post in these two threads... and a post can take 1 hour...

You are very bright, Shiny (is there a pun here), I am starting to fear your intellect. Ok I'll take some lessons in coping from ColdAngel   smile

And yes similarly, I tried to dodge the head of school to try to reply to you earlier (it was a waste - in the end I deleted that and did it again at home - shrug).

coldangel

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« Reply #226 on: 11-10-2006 20:16 »

I don't debate intricities, I merely enforce them. And these cartoon characters are nothing like me - for one thing, I'm not an idiot, nor am I animated (for the most part). I just have some time to kill between shifts.

My point was that people in our bloated, pustulant culture spend far too much time thinking about themselves and their own feelings. It's a useless activity with no benefit to anyone... but that's not even the main reason why it's so contemptable - the process is just so self-indulgent. I can't believe people can be that infatuated with themselves. It's sickening.
Everyone in the world is absolutely pissweak except me.

We're off-track.

Fry & Leela blah blah... something... romance... yadda yadda.
Shiny

Professor
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« Reply #227 on: 11-10-2006 20:23 »
« Last Edit on: 11-10-2006 20:23 »

To Fry_B:

I did sneak on a computer at mid-day to drop that last little note at coldangel...I hope I deleted enough that they can't tell I did it later...ah, intellectual sparring, how I love it...it's like a drug!   wink  I would have gone on longer this morning if I hadn't been under a deadline (my boss wasn't there today, luckily, and for once she didn't call to make sure we were all there on time...though she'll ream me out, I'm sure, the next time she looks through our timesheets...   roll eyes ).

If I'd had more time, I would have apologized more for seeming to come on too strong against your idea in my original post.  Please don't let me or my personal "philophy of fanfic" discourage you if YOU want to write such a story!  You would find a small but ardent circle of admiring readers (small circles tend to be more ardent; it's the sense of being outnumbered   wink ).  I look at my morning post now and think some phrases sound much too "flip," which I certainly would have toned down in the rewrite to more adequately express the respect for your ideas which I honestly do feel, but don't always express adequately (I learned to debate at home in family fights.  Doesn't always lead to the best habits... )

My personal philosophy of fanfic is an opinion, and it's not universal, there are plenty of people who approach fanfic as a form of play, or as interaction with other fans, or as a medium into which they project whatever ideas they want to explore.  Many people would say the "canon above all" approach I have is old-fashioned and doesn't take advantage of the malleability of text that the Internet and Virtual Reality has allowed.  I can't refute that; I AM old fashioned (I listened to oldies stations in my teens), and I learned how to write fan fiction under the guidance of people who had put out some of the first Star Trek fanzines ever.  So please bear in mind that my ideas are going to be biased in the direction of "faithful to the series" most of the time.  This doesn't make it the ONLY valid approach, and please forgive me (or slap me with a large trout) (or both, not necessarily in that order) if I start talking like it is.

Anyway, thank you very much for the compliments...and I am more complimented than I had time to say this morning that my story led you to PEEL.  I'm enjoying your posts immensely and appreciative of the (pun intended, I guess) depths you've brought to the subject of Fry and Leela shippery lately.  I hope you take many more interesting dives into new waters.


To coldangel: Whoah, dude, take a rage dump.  Most people are only "fascinated" by their own problems in the same way they'd be "fascinated" by a hideous trainwreck...or, more accurately, they way they would be by confronting a very large bear on a casual hike: they know they can't ignore it, out-fight it, or run fast enough to escape it; they can't go anywhere until they deal with it somehow, but they don't have a clue how to act, they're terrified, of mauling, and they become more or less paralyzed by lack of strategy.  Most of the frantic reading of "self-help" books and running to different support groups is a kind of desperate attempt to figure out what am I gonna do about that damn bear?!.  If that's not for you, that's fine, but don't be so hard on those who can't leave "the bear problem" alone.  Sure, it can become self-indulgent, but it keeps people off the streets and it's arguably less pointless than scrapbooking.  wink
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #228 on: 11-10-2006 21:10 »
« Last Edit on: 11-10-2006 21:10 by coldangel_1 »

What problems? Nobody in our world has any problems - everything's provided for us. What are all these monumental issues that we're apparently all suffering from? Because it seems to me the whole thing's been invented for the purpose of selling those self-help books you speak of and couch sessions with head-shrinking quacks (Capitalism strikes again). Where are they, these supposed monumeltal problems? What do they stem from? People in our world are safe and secure. What the hell is everyone's damn problem? We live in the lap of luxury so what are we bitching about? Are we so bored that we have to MAKE UP imaginary psychological crap so that we have an obstacle to overcome, even if it is just a promulgated phantasm?
There is no bear.
People need to damn well get over themselves. None of us is that bloody important.
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #229 on: 11-10-2006 21:30 »

Man your guys' analysis' are too deep for my shallow mind to keep up with...

@coldangel:  Yes, how can we understand others without first understanding ourselves?  Buddhists focus their study on themselves, do you find them self-indulgent?  To study the self is to forget oneself, as the old Buddhist saying goes (I think...).
any1else

Space Pope
****
« Reply #230 on: 11-10-2006 21:34 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Where are they, these supposed monumeltal problems? What do they stem from? People in our world are safe and secure. What the hell is everyone's damn problem? We live in the lap of luxury so what are we bitching about? Are we so bored that we have to MAKE UP imaginary psychological crap so that we have an obstacle to overcome, even if it is just a promulgated phantasm?

The problem is people are bored. All other activities have lost any meaning so they participate in one that is never ending - trying to solve oneself.
Yes it may be pointless, but what else is there? Trying to save the world? I know you know that task could never be accomplished, as if it was you'd then be complaining about how selfless everybody is and all those bloody colourful rainbows.
Stezzy

Crustacean
*
« Reply #231 on: 11-10-2006 22:05 »

It reminds me of Mulder in the X Files talking about the "peg leg" in Moby Dick...the concept that the more you have, the more you want out of life and consequently the less happy and satisfied you are. If someone only had one leg or was suffering from starvation then the meaning of life becomes more basic and in some ways more satisfactory. I don't necessarily agree with saying we're in the lap of luxury though - maybe we are matericalistically but in some ways in thisn developed world we are more screwed up and suffer from this "want want want" syndrome. This is what causes the stress and emotional problems that a lot of people have. No one is satisified when all their basic needs are met - they want more all the time. On the other hand some people are just screwed up because of emotional problems or abuse. Either way it's sad.

Just my two cents.
any1else

Space Pope
****
« Reply #232 on: 11-10-2006 22:13 »
« Last Edit on: 11-10-2006 22:13 »

Besides, peoples' problems are entertaining. We wouldn't be here if we weren't interested/amused by the problems they attached to fictional people on the telly-vision.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #233 on: 11-10-2006 22:19 »

Buddhists are tossers.
The developed world is full of greedy fools who think their lives are actually HARD. (BWAHAHAHA!!)
Drop 'em into a warzone and then they'll see what's hard. Force 'em to kill for their own survival, and then they'll have something to bitch about.
any1else

Space Pope
****
« Reply #234 on: 11-10-2006 22:36 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldmoose_1:
 Force 'em to kill for their own survival, and then they'll have something to bitch about.
You'd still be saying they were being self-obsessed.   tongue
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #235 on: 11-10-2006 22:37 »

Yes, but they'd have a half-decent excuse at least.
You go splat now!
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #236 on: 11-10-2006 22:56 »

Also, I had a random thought and I didn't know where to stick it... so I stuck it here. And I challenge anyone to defy me!!

In Birdbot of Icecatraz, Bender is knocked around and takes on a Penguin persona because he's surrounded by Penguins. Leter he's shot and when he comes around the first thing he sees is Leela, so he resets to human mode.
Now this episode is before Leela's Homeworld, so at this point everyone still thinks she's an alien, yet Bender's subroutines identified her as human. I put it to you all that Bender held the key to her origin the whole time and didn't even know.
Perhaps it was a hint on the part of the writers, when we see Leela's face from Bender's POV and the words 'Reset mode: human'.
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #237 on: 11-11-2006 00:17 »

Maybe he just saw the silhouette and assumed it was human.  I remember the commentary said something about how many languages does Bender actually know, and it was only like 3 or so.  So maybe he just identifies it by the shape and chooses the language closest to the shape he sees.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #238 on: 11-11-2006 00:50 »

What the... out of three languages one of them just happened to be Penguin?
C'monnnnn!
Anyway, I think it might have been a hint.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #239 on: 11-11-2006 01:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Buddhists are tossers.


 laff


Ah, coldangel...you realize there's no way I can take THAT line of reasoning seriously, don't you?   wink


It is said
That if Buddhists are tossers,
Then surely the path to wisdom
Is more enjoyable than previously imagined.



 flirt


Now, you're going to have to calm down the Angry Young Man thing or I'll take up a collection to send a troupe of sweet little old ladies to hold you down and HUG you, day and night, until you stop kidding yourself and admit you're just a soft-hearted shipper like the rest of us.


 wink


Good night, my well-camoflaged, shippy-at-heart fellow PEELer.


Shiny "Awwwwwwww-Inspiring" J. Fangirl
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