The Loooovenasium (Or, the Intelligent, Long-Winded Shipper Thread, Part II)

[Reply #80 on:]

Shatner played Captain James Kirk in the original Star Trek series. Leela made out with him spontaneously in 'Where No Fan Has Gone Before'. This is a joke about Kirk's tendency to attract every female he encounters in TOS, even despite him being a pudgy blowhard.
Nah, he's cool 

[Reply #81 on:]

   

Originally posted by Cyberphobia:
Ooooh but when I said it, it wasn't a lie! That was my real reason!

Yes...sometimes a woman really does feel no romantic attraction to a man who has nothing "wrong" with him.  A woman's sense of, er, lust, seems to be a lot more "conditional" than a man's...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to (straight) guys, the equation seems to be:

Female + (remotely) Attractive = SCHWING!

To (straight) women, it's more complex...like, say:

Male + (Funny OR Sweet OR Courageous OR "Bad boy" OR Talented) +  [Attractive OR (Not Attractive x Time)] + {[Likelyhood of Faithfulness x Responsibility x(Time x -1)]+ [(Romantic Gestures x Sincerity) / Value of Frienship]} = POTENTIAL LIFEMATE

For some women there's a "Social Status and/or Earning ability x Woman's Own Personal Insecurity" variable...which I believe is a problem Leela has (the "status", NOT the "earnings" one), but as Fry's "Likelyhood of Faithfulness x Responsibility" and "Sincerity" scores go up, Leela's "Personal Insecurity" factor decreases, and that whole subroutine loses influence.

Still, her "Value of Frienship" variable for Fry is substantial, and his overall "Likelyhood of Faithfulness" score has been dismal for a long time, by his own choice.  Still, the "x Time" modifications can accumulate to some powerful figures, and Fry has that on his side.     

Which is my somewhat on-topic way of saying that your alleged "physical repulsiveness" score is far less influential than you might think, coldangel.  Increase your "(Romantic Gestures x Sincerity)" factors and women will grow to find you attractive.  This maleability in women's "Attracive/not Attractive" assessments is IMHO the single factor most overlooked by men...with men it seems to be a strictly digital, binary, "0 or 1" kind of thing, but with women it's an analog score modified by a number of other factors, some of which you can modify yourself


And then there's always the old Southern bit of advice... "If the women can't find you handsome, let them at least find you handy!"     


P.S.: On the subject of Shatner, go back and watch first season Classic Trek...when he was young, Shatner was surprisingly babe-alicious...   

[Reply #82 on:]

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but to (straight) guys, the equation seems to be:
Female + (remotely) Attractive = SCHWING!
To (straight) women, it's more complex"

Mmm, there we go. At least I'm not the only sexist one. To be fair though, I've turned down really quite attractive ladies because they were idiots or emotionally dependent or worked in telemarketing centres.

Oh and BTW - I didn't say PHYSICALLY repulsive, thank you    Just repulsive in general terms of attitude, lifestyle, and absence of moral qualms re: killing people and such. Physically I'm breathtaking. Touch my abs... go on, you want to.

Mmmm... maths, eh? I dropped out of maths in high school 'cause it pissed me off. Could it be this insane complexity in females that leads a lot of men to become jaded cynics?

Rants about men being stupid and not caring what kind of person their mate is ASIDE, I can only speak for myself but I'm really picky about qualities I look for in a woman. Probably not quite as picky as the selection process you just described (I do allow for individual characteristics - there is no 'mould' that needs to be filled), but there are specific things. And they aren't physical.

Making romance an equation is perhaps the most unromantic thing I've ever heard... and you're talking to a guy whose idea of a romantic evening is taking his love out to a video arcade.

[Reply #83 on:]

From what you say, you don't sound so repulsive to me Coldangel

[Reply #84 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
At least I'm not the only sexist one.

Ah, but notice I wasn't describing guys' "Potential Mate" equation, but their "physically desirable" equation...it's just with women it's hard to separate the two equations.

So, to expand, with straight guys it's

SCHWING factor x (Female's Intelligence x Guy's own Intelligence) x (Variable(s), like Sense of Humor, etc) x Comfort level = Potential Lifemate


And it seem to me your possible solution is to work on those moral qualms...they might be directly related to your cynicism factor     

   

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Making romance an equation is perhaps the most unromantic thing I've ever heard... and you're talking to a guy whose idea of a romantic evening is taking his love out to a video arcade.

My "Engineering High School" subroutine is showing....           

[Reply #85 on:]

Haha.
I'll grab an X-Files quote, even though it's probably only familiar to me:

"Nobody likes a math geek, Scully."

jle1993 - I try to be as unappealing as I can. It's my protective cocoon that keeps folk at arm's length and thus my life remains free of needless complication. Perhaps I'm a bit like Leela in that regard, although she's a little more dignified and substantially bustier.

[Reply #86 on:]

I'm like Leela in the fact that I always end up alone, and I'm sensative to certain things.

[Reply #87 on:]

Like pointy sticks in your enormous eyeball?

[Reply #88 on:]

Like insensative comments

[Reply #89 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
 I try to be as unappealing as I can.

Well I dunno, I find you pretty hillarious!

According to a recent survey I read about, sense of humour is the main quality girls look for in guys.


And Shiny, your equation is so accurate it's unbelievable! Except that I don't get how you can times together qualities. Added them: yes. Multiplying them: errr...

[Reply #90 on:]

Aww, hilarious? And here I was thinking I was being a complete twat. Curse my delightful personality!

jle - Wanna talk about insensitive; one time I congratulated a woman on what I *thought* was a pregnancy. Turned out she was just overweight...

You can multiply qualities, although my own are more commmonly divided.

[Reply #91 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
jle - Wanna talk about insensitive; one time I congratulated a woman on what I *thought* was a pregnancy. Turned out she was just overweight...

Oooooh oooooh oooooh that's like the movie '2 Weeks Notice'!!! Haha funny stuff!

[Reply #92 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
jle - Wanna talk about insensitive; one time I congratulated a woman on what I *thought* was a pregnancy. Turned out she was just overweight...

I swear you are too funny Coldangel, one of these days I'll burst my stitches!

[Reply #93 on:]

Oh, apparently I scooped a movie. Curses!
Well, the world has officially run out of original ideas. Time to go back to tossing cream pies at each other and doing silly barber-shop skits.

Alright alright, move it along people - nothing to see here. Come along, don't make me get the baton out.
Let's get this topic back on-thread.
Yes, that's what I said.


jle, your use of the previously discussed "beautiful eye" comment in your fanfic went down very well. I may still use it too, but you beat me.
I truly think it's something the writers in the actual show ought to think about using if they happen too read this. We'll let them use it, right? And we'll let them pay us.
Yep, I think it would be the sweetest and most touching thing that Fry could possibly say to Leela. It's what I would say to her if I was him, romantic soul that I am (HA!!).

[Reply #94 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:


jle, your use of the previously discussed "beautiful eye" comment in your fanfic went down very well. I may still use it too, but you beat me.

See I do listen to you, even if its only to nick your ideas.

[Reply #95 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
jle - Wanna talk about insensitive; one time I congratulated a woman on what I *thought* was a pregnancy. Turned out she was just overweight...

That's not insensitive, it's a common faux pas...it's not just you. I can't remember where, but I know I've seen this kind of thing a few times: "...one of the other things I learned was to NEVER compliment a woman on her pregnancy, unless she's wearing a T-shirt that says "BABY" with a downward arrow underneath it, preferably standing in line to sign up for a LaMaze class reading a personalized copy of 'What To Do When You're Pregnant!'"

They even had a commercial for something based on that...one woman to another in the grocery store...can't remember the product it was for....

So yeah, that kind of goof really sucks....I haven't made that particular one, but I've come close, and I've made ones just as dumb...

About the cynicism/protective shield...we all have our defense mechanisms.  The illusion they give that we're protecting ourselves IS an illusion...we spend so much energy beating OURSELVES up that we end up bruised AND exhausted, and we usually do a much harsher job on ourselves than the world would have.  It's paradoxical, but the effort we spend repressing our pain ends up hurting us all the time, whereas if we just let ourselves feel the original bad feelings, it sucks for a time and then stops.  The trick is identifying the original bad feelings...to which the unpopular solution of "therapy" is the answer.  (I recommend Eidetic therapy, the most efficacious sort I've personally tried...I can actually see progress occuring).

Oh, wait....this is about Futurama.  Okay, here:



Shiny "Obligatory On-Topic Insertions R US" J. Fangirl

[Reply #96 on:]

 

And then there's always the old Southern bit of advice... "If the women can't find you handsome, let them at least find you handy!"

Err, southern?  That's a quote from the Red Green show.  He says it at the end of every episode. 
...that was a good show...haven't seen it in ages...

Anyways..

I love that picture for so many reasons.  Just the little sketches in the holophoner cloud of Fry/Leela waltzing with a starry background behind them.  Reminiscent of the scene on Saturns rings in "Parasites Lost". 

Before I saw the season finale, I was SURE that Leela and Fry would get together at the very end.  It was like how could they not have?  The writers had been building it from the start.  But it's a good thing they left it open now that they're bringing the show back.  It's almost as if they knew and the ending was left open..just incase.

Are there any shippers out there that didn't feel as if the ship had been resolved at the very end?  Before they knew of the return of Futurama?  I always felt it was meant to signal the beginning of Fry/Leela's relationship.  But now of course, that I know of Futurama returning, I doubt they'll start off the show with Fry and Leela already together.

Anyways, random rant there.. This is fryandlemon saying, "Keep your stick on the ice." 

[Reply #97 on:]

 

Originally posted by fryandlemon:
  Err, southern?  That's a quote from the Red Green show.  He says it at the end of every episode. 

Wow, really? I first heard it from my roommate, the one from San Angelo, TX...I've only seen bits and pieces of Red Green, I like it but I guess I haven't seen the ending where he says that.

Well, both the American South and Canada were settled by large numbers of Scottish and Irish immigrants, maybe they brought it with them...?(Shiny rationalizes).

More probably, I just assumed since it came from her that it had the same source as all of her other little sayings... Sorry, Canada.  No offense.

 

Are there any shippers out there that didn't feel as if the ship had been resolved at the very end?...I always felt it was meant to signal the beginning of Fry/Leela's relationship. 

My roommate (yes, the same one...I've got three, but she's the one that also watches Futurama) is of the opinion that TDHAIP signifies "that even if they're not together quite yet, it's gonna happen."

 

Anyways, random rant there.. This is fryandlemon saying, "Keep your stick on the ice." 

If you're lucky enough to HAVE ice... 

Shiny engages in what she is told by others is misplaced nostalgia for living in a "snow climate" due to the fact that she never had to drive in it...she remembers how pretty it was, though, and now nice it smelled, all dry and powdery and crisp and clean...*sigh*

[Reply #98 on:]

 

More probably, I just assumed since it came from her that it had the same source as all of her other little sayings... Sorry, Canada. No offense.

None taken!  I just wanted to let you know where I first heard the phrase from.

 

My roommate (yes, the same one...I've got three, but she's the one that also watches Futurama) is of the opinion that TDHAIP signifies "that even if they're not together quite yet, it's gonna happen."

Hmm, I like that opinion too.  It's the one that fits in best when you take into account that there are more episodes on the way. 

[Reply #99 on:]

Most people in Canada are nothing like Red and Green or the guys off Strange Brew.

[Reply #100 on:]

 

Originally posted by MrBlonde:
Most people in Canada are nothing like Red and Green or the guys off Strange Brew.

  No!  REALLY?!?! I can't believe it! 

...oh, wait...of course, they're actually more like the Fraser the Mountie in Due South! 

Thanks for clearing that up!   

 

Show spoiler

Sorry, I couldn't resist...yes, I know that television stereotypes are not a true representation of normal people.  If anything, I just have to look at the "Americans" in some Canadian and British shows & movies to figure it works the same way in reverse.  Heck, look at the "Americans" in most HOLLYWOOD programs & movies...TV occurs (for the most part) in the Land of Make-Believe, whether it's Mr. Roger's Neighborhood, Miami Vice, Dawson's Creek, or Red Green.  Even such real-life-based shows as Homicide: Life on the Streets are highly fictionalized in one way or another.  Heck, I've been an extra on a TV show (I was in the "audience" on Texas Justice, a friend of mine is in the Houston Actor's Guild and they were looking for warm bodies to fill up seats) and I know that even such alleged "reality" shows are tweaked...they advise the audience (and, I kind of assume, the claimants and defendants) to "react" more energetically...gasp audibly, for instance, at "dramatic revelations."  All those "audience gasps" you hear on Oprah are, I bet, WAYYYY more exaggerated than they would be normally.

So rest assured, I know Canadians are probably nothing like the ones you see on TV.  I'll bet they don't even have beady little eyes and flapping heads.  <g>

[Reply #101 on:]

I still like beer and duck tape though.

[Reply #102 on:]

Shiny:

I'm an Australian male.
1: We don't really have any feelings we're aware of.
2: Therapy? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! AAAAHHHhahahaha!!! That's for nancy-boy yanks.

[Reply #103 on:]

^coldangel, I disagree. There is NOTHING wrong with getting therapy! There's just a bad stigma attached to mental disorders but they are just like physical disorders and doesn't make you any less of a person. I think the ones who go out to get therapy (if they need it) are the stronger ones because they can identify they have a problem and be strong enough to do something about it.

The male 'macho' image is so stupid! That's a major reason to why men in every country have a lower life expectancy that women (in Australia is 78 for men and 83 for women) because men don't care about their health as much and have fewer GP visits to try to keep up their 'macho' image.

[Reply #104 on:]

Edit: sorry, ignore this, double post

[Reply #105 on:]

Sure, I wasn't completely serious about the Australian stereotype. I guess normal people do need constant tending-to to prevent them falling apart at the seams, delicate as they are.
 
But I ain't normal. 

Folk dealt pretty well with some really horrific stuff back centuries ago before therapy was ever dreamed up as a money-spinner. Some of our greatest scientific and philisophical minds hail from that pre-analytical era where people dealt with their own problems like they should - like REAL people do. These days everyone's so fragile - bitchin' about this and that, breaking down under imaginary pressure. It's a joke - we in the Western world live in such decadent luxury, how could every bastard have any need to go blubber to a shrink? It boggles the mind.

This isn't me being macho. It is, perhaps, me being an island, and holding the excesses of modern society in complete contempt.

I think therapy is the biggest scam since lightbulbs designed specifically to burn out. It's true, it does take a strong person to admit they have a problem; but to then run off to some wanker with a diploma to have 'em fix it for you is just a cop-out, and it breeds weakness. Only way to truly grow and avoid the kind of intellectual dependency that causes spiritual atrophy is to deal with your problems yourself.

That's how I operate anyway. And it isn't actually a 'bloke' thing. Male or female, I tend to sneer at folk who pay money to shrinks. I've known a few of 'em... shrinks, that is. They didn't impress me.

However, if you want me to listen to you talk about your feeling I'd be more than happy to take your money! 

[Reply #106 on:]

*fade in*

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Shiny:

I'm an Australian male.
1: We don't really have any feelings we're aware of.
2: Therapy? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! AAAAHHHhahahaha!!! That's for nancy-boy yanks.

Most.Perfect.Post.EVER 

*fade out*

[Reply #107 on:]

Heh heh... thankyou.

[Reply #108 on:]

No I strongly disagree! Back in the old days when people fixed their own problems that you talk about,  like expectancy was waaaaaaay less than these days. LIke you'd die age 40 or 50. Now it's like 80.

And Depression and Anxiety and all that ARE real illnesses. Depression is caused by a chemical problem in the brain. Here, read this: http://www.abc.net.au/health/depression/cause.htm

If people are willing to get help, then research shows that psychologists can be extremely helpful. As can psychiatrists but they generally work by prescribing medication so it's a bit differant.

People don't make up these illnesses.

Just because we live in the western world, doesn't mean that people don't have bad lives.

There is nothing weak about having a mental illness, it's just people like you who contribute to the stigma attached to it. REAL people do have mental illnesses. Just treat it like someone having cancer or cardiovascular disease or asthma or whatever.

Dealing with a problem yourself only causes you to bottle it up which will make it worse in the long term.

But relating this to Futurama: Errr I don't think Fry or Leela have a mental illness LOL

[Reply #109 on:]

That was because they didn't have cures for diseases that actually kill you.

Chemical imbalances require adjustment by way of other chemicals, not a couch.

I only contribute to stigmas when I'm pushed to.
I'm happy for the rest of the human race to go on messing around analysing each other pointlessly - I won't bat an eyelid as long as they don't do it near me.

Fry has a mental illness. Because he is his own Grandfather. He has a learning disability.

[Reply #110 on:]

Ok well you can argue with statistics and research if you like but generally the aim is to get to the root of the problem.

I don't think Fry has a learning disability, I think he's just naturally not the sharpest tool in the shed.

His brain is differant, yes, but I don't think that causes him to have a learning disability.

[Reply #111 on:]

I only use that term because in one episode... forget the title... the Alcazar one... Leela says he has a learning disibility, and he doesn't debate the point. The Nibbilonians also state his mind is 'cobbled together' out of leftover brainwaves in TDTESS.

[Reply #112 on:]

 

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
That was because they didn't have cures for diseases that actually kill you.

This my come as a surprise Coldangel, but mental illnesses can kill you. I should know, and if it wasn't for 'a wanker with a diploma' I probably wouldn't be here now.

Mental illnesses can push you to the edge and therepy can help bring you back.

[Reply #113 on:]

^Yeah, you're exactly right jle!

Sure, the mortality rate isn't as high as some other diseases but it is still there. The morbidity rate (disease rate) is huge! Many people suffer from it and this affects their quality of life.

[Reply #114 on:]

Yeah, don't I just know it. Without therepy, my qulity of life would be zero, I wouldn't have one, in the sense I'd be 6feet under. People without hese illnesses that say therepy doesn't work (Coldangel) don't know jack all, it works, and it works well.

[Reply #115 on:]

Not on me.

[Reply #116 on:]

BTW - I've watched mates get shot and killed in front of me without having to go to a shrink. What's everyone else in society so MISERABLE about?

[Reply #117 on:]

Err... I think this is too difficult to explain to some people.

I don't know because it's never happened to me but I think if you saw a mate getting shot in front of you, that would definately traumatise you and it would make you angry and upset and stuff. But things like bullying or abuse to you makes you feel worthless and like nobody would care if you died and that you have no friends and that kinda thing which might cause worse long term effects because it's often on-going and lowers your self-esteem.

I don't really know because a friend of mine has never been shot but yeah.

But everyone's differant and everyone who has depression would be miserable about differant things.

[Reply #118 on:]

   

Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Folk dealt pretty well with some really horrific stuff back centuries ago before therapy was ever dreamed up as a money-spinner. Some of our greatest scientific and philisophical minds hail from that pre-analytical era where people dealt with their own problems like they should - like REAL people do.

Yeah, and how many encyclopedia entries end with them committing suicide or dying drunk, alone, and penniless (or some combination thereof) in some unheated garret or boarding house...  Sadder yet, what about all those who didn't achieve anything, but lived  miserably and briefly before dying the same pathetic deaths...

But if it's your actual goal to remain (as you describe) cynical, bitter and repulsive to others,  to keep your "sadness buried where it can fester quietly into mental illness," well, [Spongebob]Good luck with that![/Squarepants]

But I can't help wonder, if you're so sold on cynicism, why you have a fondness for a sweet, touching romance like Fry and Leela's, especially a fondness for such an open, trusting, innocently devoted, willing-to-be-hurt-yet-eternally-ready-to-try-love-again character like Fry.   


And, just to forcibly drag this thread back on topic, to me Fry's real appeal IS his determined optimism.  He clearly knows what despair is, and is resigned to his fate in many circumstances (Morgan: "No one is to know about us."  Fry: "Just like every other girl I've ever dated."  What sells that line is his totally nonchalant delivery) and sort of calmly accepts that he's going to lose out in most circumstances.  But with the things that really matter to him, he just refuses to give up for more than a minute or two.  He says "I give up!" and then a second later he's back in, swinging, his everpresent wide-eyed smile back in place, not just ready but eager for whatever the world has to chuck at him.

Of course, Fry is stupid....but he does make you wonder (well, he makes ME wonder) whether intelligence is truly a survival characteristic, or a blessing at all to the individual who has it....   

[Reply #119 on:]

I know you're from Australia, but you must be an oddity because from what I see most people in this country think therapy as a bit weird, a bastion of **American self-indulgence**. That's a cultural thing... although it might be different in the city, the cities are more Americanized than the rest of the place. I live in the country and on my infrequent trips to Sydney I can't help but notice all the people are really bony and pasty and they look at the ground an awful lot... they actually all look sick.

I think when young teenage girls try to off themselves the problem is not one that can be solved by carting 'em off the therapy. That is clearly just treating the symptom of a much larger problem. Kids with their whole lives ahead of 'em wanting to die? That's a problem in SOCIETY, not the kid's head. I mean honestly, I have never met a teenager that wasn't at least a little bit depressed and/or suicidal - it's the trend for young folk. Need to start looking at the big picture rather than focusing on the small-scale manifestations - the WHY of it. Shrinks aren't interested in why - they'll just patch it up (maybe) and line their pockets, but that doesn't stop the cycle from happening again. I call for a wholistic approach to societal sanity. For eg - you mention bullying as a cause for depression; then the problem there is the bullying - THAT is what needs to be addressed. And there's more to it of course - these pressures of the modern world I keep hearing about, stuff like that. Reason being - if you keep a narrow field of view and keep fixing the symptoms then the battle will never be won... which incidentally is exactly how the professionals like it - they're not in the business of finding permenant solutions because that would eliminate their repeat business, and that doesn't make financial sense.

Now I work in the field of Intellectual Disibilities these days. I'm part of an organization you might have heard of here in Australia called the House With No Steps. Though currently I'm on leave without pay, I normally care for a number of group-homes full of intellectually disabled clients with diagnosis ranging from Downs Syndrome, Williams Syndrome, through to Aspergers and Autism. Their minds are labrynthine and their problems often near impossible to gauge even for a veteran in the field (I've been working with them for four years now). I take them to psychologists on occasion. That, to me, is warrented. They can't talk to their friends or families or me about their issues, because they aren't able to understand why they feel the way they do or they are unable to articulate. Non-disabled people don't have that problem, and that's part of the reason why I feel people like us with our full faculties should by rights be able to deal, to do any less would be to sell ourselves short and squander the gift of a fully-functional mind that has so much capacity to heal itself if only you give it a chance.

However this is only my opinion as a low-born commoner. I'm not some high-brow silver-spoon touchy-sensitive city-type who sits around a studio apartment with my European friends discussing our *feelings*.
Maybe you all will appreciate me more if I cut off my ear like that artist guy... whatshisname... Andy Warhol.   

End of the day, I don't feel that talking to a head-shrinker with a certificate could ever help me any more than talking to a friend of family member - those people actually care about me. Shinks care about your money.