Futurama   Planet Express Employee Lounge
The Futurama Message Board

Design and Support by Can't get enough Futurama
Help Search Futurama chat Login Register

PEEL - The Futurama Message Board    Human Resource Department    The Loooovenasium (Or, the Intelligent, Long-Winded Shipper Thread, Part II) « previous next »
 Topic locked! 
Author Topic: The Loooovenasium (Or, the Intelligent, Long-Winded Shipper Thread, Part II)  (Read 14097 times)
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 [19] 20 Print
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #720 on: 11-06-2006 05:07 »

People who are excited and happy can come off as insensitive at times because they're so giddy with their own happiness that they might miss seeing someone else's sadness.  I doubt Leela was trying to hurt Fry's feelings or make him jealous, simply because she doesn't show any such tendency at other times.  She does sometimes get so wrapped up in herself that she doesn't notice his current state of mind, but you know...SO DOES EVERYONE NOW AND THEN.  Fry included.

Do people judge Leela's sensitivity harshly because we identify with Fry (who is after all the focus of the show, our "everyfan" stand-in)...or is it because she's a woman, meaning that being aware of and taking care of a man's feelings are her proper responsibility, and she's shirking her righful duty? 

I assume it's mostly the first, but I suspect there's a pinch of the latter in there from time to time (especially when the word "cow" enters the conversation... )
Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #721 on: 11-06-2006 05:08 »
« Last Edit on: 11-06-2006 05:08 »

Does anyone else think that's we're possibly over-analyzing a lot of this stuff? Like maybe the writers never considered why Leela would tell Fry that she was gonna sleep with Chaz. Maybe it was just for the sole purpose of making Fry feel like crap for the storyline. Maybe they never considered Leela's point of view.

Are we just looking for stuff that isn't there?

But I also agree with Shiny.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #722 on: 11-06-2006 05:45 »

Haha..
'Cow' is just my female equivalent of 'bastard'.  laff

I think folk generally empathize with the one who's getting hurt, male or female, main character or not. It's a natural response.
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #723 on: 11-06-2006 05:54 »
« Last Edit on: 11-06-2006 05:54 »

Ahahaha, I feel like we're over analyzing the show all the time.  Especially the physics aspect and breaking down the complexity of Leela's character.  I'm sure most if not all the episodes are not supposed to link fluently especially since they are written by different people.  Whatever each character does is for the sake of that one episode.  So all those shippy moments are really more parallel than in a series.

Yes I agree with coldangel, it's easier to empathize with someone's pain than their happiness.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #724 on: 11-06-2006 06:08 »

Because humans thrive on pain.
Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #725 on: 11-06-2006 06:12 »

Well is it actually possible to empathize with someone who hasn't got any pain? Because then it wouldn't be empathy I don't think.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #726 on: 11-06-2006 06:17 »

No. It would be pity. Pity because if they're not in pain they must be really really stupid not to realize how fucked their life is.
Apple Tea

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #727 on: 11-06-2006 06:20 »
« Last Edit on: 11-06-2006 06:20 »

No, I'm sure its possible to have empathy with happiness, like when your friend gets a great new job and you're happy for him, you feel his happiness.  I think it's easier to empathize pain because I don't believe many of us really know what happiness really feels like, we only know a lesser degree of pain and we mistake it for happiness.

EDIT: Someone come up with a name fast!  This thread is almost dead!
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #728 on: 11-06-2006 06:23 »

I feel only contempt for those who are happy.
any1else

Space Pope
****
« Reply #729 on: 11-06-2006 06:24 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
Pity because if they're not in pain they must be really really stupid not to realize how fucked their life is.
I used to wish I could be one of the "stupid" people who seemed happy all the time. I figured the less you knew, the better off you were.

There, Leela just needs to be wormed.

Heh, that makes me sound arrogant. Oh well. I know what I mean.
Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #730 on: 11-06-2006 06:31 »

There was a really good name suggestion in the last thread. I'll go back and have a look.
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #731 on: 11-06-2006 06:33 »

From the future, with love.
Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #732 on: 11-06-2006 06:36 »

OK found it!

Credit to KitKatBar-Fry (with a slight change)

Shipper Thread III: Ship Harder!
any1else

Space Pope
****
« Reply #733 on: 11-06-2006 06:38 »

Could just call it George.
"Can I call you Al? Or maybe just Din? How 'bout Laddy? Here boy..."


Ship Harder sounds good.
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #734 on: 11-06-2006 06:40 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Cyberphobia:
Does anyone else think that's we're possibly over-analyzing a lot of this stuff?

Yes, I do. But it's the reason why I joined PEEL, created the DD thread and spend time reading the HR threads  smile

 
Quote
Like maybe the writers never considered why Leela would tell Fry that she was gonna sleep with Chaz. Maybe it was just for the sole purpose of making Fry feel like crap for the storyline. Maybe they never considered Leela's point of view.

Yes I too suspect sometimes things are imposed on characters. So what do we do, overanalyze or say 'it's a writers' fault'?

Re the end of thread: someone suggested using the DD thread. That is an option, I can add the link to this thread in the first post. I have not heard any prevailing opinions either way.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #735 on: 11-06-2006 06:57 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_B:
As for Zapp, Shiny posted a very good possible explanation in the Why Leela did it with Zapp thread.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
No, Xanfor didn't delete posts...posts almost NEVER get deleted (not even by mods, which neither Xanfor nor I am).  What he did was find and quote great big hunks of shippy discussion from OTHER threads in the Shipper Thread so that we'd all get to see more.  He was sort of a Shippy Reader's Digest editor...  wink

Body... Being... Overflowed... By... Shippy... Juices...

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
I think it's all very simple. She was incredibly lonely and he played on that lonliness. He was talking about how isolated he was and having felt the same way she took the bait. Had he used any other tactic it wouldn't have worked but he hit on the one weakness she does have, her feelings of isolation.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:

What Venus said. 

quote:
---------------------
Originally posted by futz:
Hmm, well she admired Zapp from a distance before she actually met him
---------------------

Zapp is portrayed as a hero by the media - she had no reason NOT to admire him.  (And she was attracted to him then, which sorta blows your theory that pity is her main turn-on...    wink but onward... )

quote:
---------------------
while no one Amy tried to fix her up with at the bar was good enough.
---------------------

She did say "maybe" to the unseen guy that Bender claimed was gay...but I don't think we have a wide enough sample to draw  conclusions about her tastes from, two seen guys with one unseen.
 

quote:
---------------------
Let's see, the bedroom scene. Zapp agressive, egotistical - Leela no like, Zapp crying - Leela hop in bed, Wake up Zapp back to being agressive, egotistical - Leela no like.
---------------------

No woman in her right MIND would like Zapp in those scenes...and it was Zapp's throwing her and her friends into jail and dooming a lot of endangered animals for no reason that turned Leela off him first.

Y'know, I think the problem is that you're assuming that Leela had to be attracted to Zapp in order to sleep with him.  I think it's clear that she was anything BUT attracted to him then.

Women don't HAVE to feel "turned on" to sleep with another person...sometimes they do it to provide, or receive, the comfort of physical closeness, which is not the same thing.

I didn't understand how your other examples related to your theory, so I won't comment on them.  But I did want to point out that the very concept of a "pity f*&%" (which is what her night with Zapp clearly was) sort of assumes that a woman can "do it" without feeling particularly turned on.

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Nope, nope. I said piting was a superior position to being pitied. Perhaps I should called it red light, green light rather than turn-on. As superior relates to feeling safe or secure in proceeding. Not so much a pity-f*ck.

But I have to wonder if Leela has a bit of a mental problem. She often assualts and beats up the guys she's done it with verbally and physically. Zapp, Alkazar, the very normal doctor. She snaps very quickly between love and hate and appears to have little self control. Makes one wonder if there aren't a lot of TRO's and warrants with her name on them out there we don't know about. At least that may be the word on the street.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Venus:
Well let's see, Zapp won't take no for an answer, Alkazar tried to trick her into becoming his personal slave, Adlai insulted a disfigured child... i don't see how smacking them around constitutes a mental problem on Leela's part. She was provoked each time.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:

quote:
---------------------
Originally posted by futz:
Nope, nope. I said piting was a superior position to being pitied. Perhaps I should called it red light, green light rather than turn-on. As superior relates to feeling safe or secure in proceeding. Not so much a pity-f*ck.
---------------------

Please...it's "f*&%."  This IS a family forum.   tongue

As per your argument: sure...pity creates a feeling of safety.  That's why manipulative people use it to get what they want (a more cynical example than Zapp is the hilarious "Cabbage Head" guy of the "Kids in the Hall" comedy group, who makes Zapp Brannigan look charming and polite; and on the female side the principle is demonstrated somewhat by Michelle, our own Fry's ex).

But you're wrong in thinking that this feeling of safety in pity is a positive feeling for her - she has never seemed to "get off on" pitying anyone (I repeat that she seemed closest to Fry when she was FARTHEST from pitying him). Furthermore, I would characterize Leela's emotion in LLLiS as a mix of pity and sympathy.  Just to clarify:

Sympathy: sym- means together with, pathos means emotions.  Literally, "to feel together with another."  Their emotion arouses your emotion, like tuning forks in resonance.

Empathy: em means “into,” so literally “to feel into another;” to sympathize so much that one feels almost a part of another person, as though their pain IS your pain.

Pity: from Latin pius, dutiful.  Now, “duty” comes from the same root as “debt;” So to pity another is to do something for them because you feel you owe them (due to cultural and/or religious rules and expectations).

I do NOT see that Leela slept with Zapp because she felt she “owed” him, at least, not THAT much, for rejecting his idiotic advances...I think she was genuinely sympathetic.  There was nothing patronizing in her voice as she put her arm around him and said “it’s not so bad.” 

Pity may contain the seeds of superiority, but sympathy does the very opposite...it makes you feel connected to someone, makes you their equal through shared misery.  I think it was a mixture of pity AND sympathy that directed her actions; pity made her pat his shoulder and say something nice, but only sympathy could get her to offer the...uh...extreme comfort she did.  Another clue: Zapp spoke of loneliness, and  loneliness is a well-established keystone of Leela’s character, right from the pilot.  He unknowingly triggered one of her core issues.

I’m sure she characterized it as purely “pity” afterward because she knew she’d been “had” (in more than one sense,   wink ) and now couldn’t believe she’d been so dumb as to fall for it. 

But onward: ever since then, Leela has (very rightly) felt superior to Zapp (who truly is a “pompous dimwit” and a “dumb, gross gorilla” ), but not once has she shown any sign of *ahem* engaging in snu-snu with him - she’s been actively nauseated by it, EVEN when he showed up at her doorstep all pathetic in “Brannigan Begin Again.” 

Meanwhile, the guys she HAS snu-snued (Alkazar), has possibly snu-snued (Adlai), or has wanted to snu-snu (Chaz, Parasites!Fry, possibly Quee-queg and/or William Shatner) have all been (at the time of her attraction) firmly her equal or her social superior (if you go by mainstream standards).

I just don’t see Leela having a thing for superiority.  Nothing in canon backs it up.

~~~

And on the issue of Leela's violence, Venus TOTALLY ownz you!      tongue    tongue

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:

quote:
--------------------
Originally posted by futz:
You really think that's what Leela was thinking when she's bobbing Zapp's knob. Your little speech went on longer than they're "night of passion".
--------------------

I believe I explained that I don’t think Leela was thinking much at all at that point.  But if you want it all spelled out, then I think her mental processes went something like this (please allow for verbal representation of non-verbal thoughts and emotional states):

Leela: "What a jerk.  Oh crud, he's crying!  I didn't mean to hurt his feelings THAT bad!  Quick, cheer him up.  Say something comforting. You shouldn't have been so harsh, Leela, it's like kicking a puppy...a great big, galumphing, drooling, stupid, horny puppy, but still just a...."

[Zapp: I'm just so LONELYYYYYY!]

Leela (feels awakening of a very old, hollow pain in the middle of her chest, and hot tears spring to her eye): "Oh god...I've felt that bad...I can't think of anything positive to say to that!  Is this all I have to look forward to?  Poor guy....oh bleah, he's trying to kiss me...well, maybe it'll make him feel barely, marginally better *sob* oh GOD what's wrong with me, I'm acting like a big baby...I wish I felt barely, marginally better...oh god, look at me I'm such a basket case...there he goes again, oh, why don’t I just let him, at least it’ll make HIM happy, and it’s not like I deserve any better, I really am a worthless freak and no one will ever love meeeeee <hic> *sob*sob* <hic> *sob*...."

quote:
--------------------
Note to self: If Leela plants boot in Venus's teeth because Venus called a perfectly beautiful child with 3 ears "disfigured", cheer for Leela.
--------------------

Oh, I think Leela’s going to be too tuckered out from kicking someone else’s teeth...someone who suggests that the most embarrassing mistake of her life was made from some “superiority” hangup, rather than just a badly misplaced kindness...someone who discusses the subject with all the sensitivity and understanding of a frat boy whose steady girlfriend has sprung a leak...someone who evades logical arguments by ridiculing their thoroughness or by climbing up on a high horse and going “Nyaah!” at some minor point of phrasing, using feigned “sensitivity” as camoflage...someone in obvious denial of being on the “-down” side of rapidly successive smackdowns....someone in this veeeeery thread.....      

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Or maybe someone who parses words, makes up things people didn't say, buries it in a long-winded rationlization, and thinks winning a discusion is merely getting the last and most words in when there really isn't anything to win?

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:

**Warning: excessively long rehash of my own arguments here**

Perhaps I’m being oversensitive here, but I see no reason for you to accuse me of unfair tactics or deliberately trying to confuse. My aim is not to "baffle you with bullschtick," and it never was.  I'm trying to make my points clearer; if I was unsuccessful, well then, I just have to try again now, don't I? I shall therefore go into TRUE long-windedness, to make sure my motives for each of the things you mistakenly characterize as unfair tactics are made abundantly, painfully, exhaustively clear, in the hopes that I may be cleared of the heinous charge of obfuscation.  (I've provided a link to the definition of that, because I'm sorry, but I don't know HOW to argue without using $20 words, most of them are a lot more precise than the inexpensive everyday ones, and precision is usually what I'm after when I discuss things seriously.  You can leave the window open (it's bartleby.com) and look up anything else you need to, okay? )

quote:
---------------------
Originally posted by futz:
Or maybe someone who parses words
---------------------

It is common practice in a debate to define one's terms, to make sure that we aren't using the same words to mean different things.  I've always found that, in most cases, tracking down a word's origin reveals its core meaning most clearly and makes it less likely that I'm misusing it.

In the case of pity, empathy, and sympathy, the Latin and Greek roots do indeed influence the way they are used in casual conversation, and do accurately imply the emotional states they are used to represent.  It was not to display my education that I wrote all that (I am, like Fry, a registered drop-out), and I don't actually know Latin or Greek*; but I keep my online dictionary links handy and use them as often as I need to to understand what I'm reading or writing.  And also because I just enjoy knowing where words come from and how they’ve evolved.


quote:
---------------------
makes up things people didn't say
---------------------

Such as Leela's mental monologue?  Well, heck, just *describing* what I thought her mental process was hadn't worked; so I illustrated it instead, purely as an example of what I meant.

If you meant that I made up things YOU never said, I don't know what you mean.  I know of course you never actually said "Nyaah!", but I wasn't saying you had; I never intended that as a literal quote, and did not (and still do not) expect anyone to take it as such.  What I meant was that by pointing out that the word "disfigured" can have unpleasant connotations, you were nit-picking the form of Venus' argument rather than responding to the gist of it (that Leela's violence in all three cases was heartily provoked by the recipients).  It's the equivalent of pointing out a misspelled word, since I believe it is Waterford-crystal-clear that Venus did NOT use "disfigured" in anything but a purely descriptive way, in other words, to indicate that Sally has a cosmetic birth defect.


quote:
---------------------
buries it in a long-winded rationlization
---------------------

Long winded, okay, I accept the accusation.  (Just remember what thread Xanfor so kindly mentioned me as an inspiration for. )  But rationalization?  How was I being insincere, or making excuses for my behavior, considering that my behavior (arguing my point in a forum) was, as far as I know, perfectly acceptable, and that I obviously think that my opinion (that Leela acted out of kindness, not out of a desire to be superior) is a perfectly acceptable interpretation of the episode?  What was I doing that I had to rationalize?


quote:
---------------------
and thinks winning a discusion is merely getting the last and most words in
---------------------

Nonsense - I don't use great numbers of words to "win" any competition, but because I'm anal-retentive and can't resist explaining every last detail of WHY I think WHAT I think.  On an emotional level I feel that, if I explain my point well enough, anyone else will be able to understand it, even if they still largely disagree with it.

I could accuse YOU, with equal reason, of thinking that winning means getting the last and RUDEST words in - but I do NOT make any such accusation.  I DO think a lot of the things you have said in this thread are unnecessarily rude, but I'm not going to speculate about why you do - you may not think they’re rude at all. 

I do wonder, however, why you also keep posting if you truly think, in fact, that:


quote:
---------------------
there really isn't anything to win
---------------------

Obviously, you and I BOTH think there is something to accomplish (I don't really think of it as "winning" ) by continuing to post.  But I can only speak to my own motives, and they have changed as the discussion has continued.  So here, in aforementioned painful detail, is the list of my motives for each of my posts in this thread:   

My overriding motive in arguing Leela’s defense has long been to protect a character I feel is much maligned, for little reason, by a sizeable portion of the fandom.

At first my motive in this thread (before you posted here) was explain why I don’t think Leela was at all impressed with Zapp after he jailed her and her friends.

In my next post (the first one where I responded to you) my motive was explain why I think being “superior” to Zapp played no part in her decision to sleep with him; I ended by saying that I thought you were attributing too much logic to Leela’s choice to “do it”.

In my next post, I wanted to elaborate on that, and also to try to get to the source of our differing interpretations.  Now, I did theorize that possibly the reason behind your opinion was an assumption that Leela had to be attracted to Zapp to sleep with him; I also unwisely used the word “is” rather than saying “may be,” and for that I apologize...I did not intend to say that you DID assume that, only that I thought PERHAPS you were assuming that, and that it might be the reason why you and I saw her actions in different lights, and I pointed out that attraction isn’t necessarily required for women to have sex.

In my next post, I wanted to AGREE with you about pity and superiority being connected and accept your clarification of what you had early said (while still maintaining that it didn’t apply to Leela).  I pointed out the difference between pity, sympathy, and empathy NOT to impress or obfuscate, but to clarify what I meant when I used the words.  I also mentioned that Venus had you cold on the issue of Leela’s violence toward boyfriends, because, well, she DID.

In my next post (the last before this one) my motive was twofold: to express amazement that you could think I was giving Leela’s decision credit for too MUCH logic, when I thought I had said the opposite.  To illustrate this, I wrote a bit of fiction, SHOWING what I meant (since telling hadn’t worked).  The second part of my motive was to point out that you were unfairly accusing Venus of insensitivity by nit-picking her word choice while ignoring the very accurate substance of her argument, and to point out that your own word choice had so far been insensitive enough that I didn’t think you ought to cast the first politically correct stone.  And I was snarky about it because I don’t approve of such diversionary tactics, especially when they’re aimed at Venus who is a gem and deserves only the best treatment from everyone, and who had done nothing to deserve the dismissal you gave her.

And lastly my motive for THIS post is because it *does* bother me to be accused of unfairness in argument or trying to generate confusion.  I take that sort of accusation seriously on a forum, because a forum is “A public meeting place for open discussion,” and I value discussion *very highly,* and don’t want anyone to think I approach it disrepectfully or nothing but self-aggrandizement in mind.

Anyway....that’s where I’m coming from.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:

Eh-hem.

Dear Shiny,

It has come to my attention that your last post was of quite a remarkable nature. Naturally, I proceeded to read the entire thing, as I do all your posts. Indeed, this post was, much as all of your previous posts, quite worthy of acknowledgment. However, I have found this particular post such a complimentary and precisely rigorous analysis of rationalization that I have deemed it worthy of it's own file on my hard drive. The fact that it was written by someone au fait in both female cogitation and unisexual emotionalisms only aggrandizes both mine and all other members of the PSC's (PEEL Shipper Community) and POTC's (PEEL's On-Topic Community) profoundly ardent admiration of you. This devotion we have for you can not be transposed to any other individual, and many of us will grieve the day of your deification and departure from this board. Perhaps you will move on to greater things, as opposed to your current obliged comeback to futz's comparing Leela to a comic strip character who just got married last year. But nevertheless, you are here, and whilst thou are here, we will continue our adorations expectantly. The fact that you know neither Latin nor Greek is of no concern, and those to whom it is a concern should not be posting in a SEAE message site. (Exceptions, of course, to our British and Australian posters.) Now, the post in question that I have been praising is, granted, quite a wholly remarkable post. However, I seem to recall that you address your diffusely long-windedness and sesquipedalianism as a 'nuisance' to the average poster. Allow me to elaborate while paraphrasing the fourth simple rule: When is comes to posting, you are the indefectible standard, and they are the nuisance. Also, allow us to assure you that should someday you be defeated in an argument of rationale, your honor and our obeisances to you will not surcease. You are PEEL's Official Declared Apprehender of 'Futurama's' Characters and Prime Apprehender of All Those Who Falsely Define Anyone's Cerebrations. You are as nonpareil as a nonpareil, and you always will be. Venus, the Queen of the 'Ship, and I, the... Intendant Commander of the 'Ship, now present you with the Purple Hair Award for Astounding Intellectual Endurance.

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Sorry, it was ment as a joke. You remember those don't you? Futurama you know, fantasy, cartoon - ha, ha? I seem to remember something about excessive use of emoticons or I would have used one.

So after all this chapter and verse and legal fine print - why'd Leela boink Zapp?

Inquiring minds want to know, storyboards are due Friday, no overtime for the art department, and the network called to say they're Comedy Central not Lifetime and want a total re-write in dialog.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
What, you think there's a definitive answer to the question in the thread title?       roll eyes

Okay, futzman, here you go:

quote:
---------------------
"For a split second my common sense was overwhelmed by pity." ~Leela
---------------------

End of story.

Everything else we yammer about here is speculation - you know that, right?  But some of us enjoy it.

Oh, and if my own speculation seemed too, er, feminine in tone for you, it just might be because Leela is... (brace yourself) ...female.

(If you're confused about THAT, no wonder you find it difficult to fathom her motives.      tongue )

Shiny


P.S. -    smile and thanks to KKBF & HS,     laff & thanks to Xanfor, and a hearty "you go girl!" to Venus (and don't worry, no one else was confused about your meaning.  Some folks are just a little slower at reading comprehension than others....    wink ).

Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #736 on: 11-06-2006 07:03 »
« Last Edit on: 11-06-2006 07:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
 

XANFOR!! I just pasted some of that thread and Why Leela did it with Zapp link in the Deep Down thread... Whatta - are you telepathic or what ?!?

Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #737 on: 11-06-2006 07:14 »
« Last Edit on: 11-06-2006 07:14 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Fry_B:
  XANFOR!! [...] Whatta - are you telepathic or what ?!?

No, I just have time a machine.

<SEL1750>: And a spelling problem.
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #738 on: 11-06-2006 07:14 »
« Last Edit on: 11-06-2006 07:14 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:

Because humans thrive on pain

No. It would be pity. Pity because if they're not in pain they must be really really stupid not to realize how fucked their life is

I feel only contempt for those who are happy.

CA_1, you appear to be a nice guy but if I ran into you at midnight you would scare the living sh*t out of me. Are you one of those Goth guys ??

Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #739 on: 11-06-2006 07:18 »

I think of Cold Angel as more emo then goth. He is quite emotional. And he gets moved by shippy stuff.
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #740 on: 11-06-2006 07:20 »
« Last Edit on: 11-06-2006 07:20 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
    No, I just have time a machine.

<SEL1750>: And a spelling problem.

Haha, I saw your Wikipeelia post too    smile

Listen, you appear to have missed Tom Allen's post, which is also good

   
Quote
Tom Allen dixit:

All right, let's recap the episode, shall we?
Leela is a new captain. (LLLiS is first season, episode 4.) She's been a you-gotta-do what you-gotta-do cryogenicist since around her orphanarium days.

Leela has an assignment she really cares about -- saving the animals of Vergon 6. (Classic quote by Farnsworth: "I didn't say anything about animals. Now it seems that the planet will collapse within three days. Incidentally, this will kill all the animals." )

Leela has her (first-season) standards: "I don't care how many eyes a man has ... as long as it's less than five. All I'm looking for is a guy who's adventurous, self-confident...maybe a snappy dresser."

Then an immediate cut to Zapp: "These new uniforms are pretty snappy, eh, first officer?"

Using cartoon, sitcom, or any other sort of dramatic logic, whaddya think's gonna happen?

Further, Leela is pressured by her job, her obligations to the imprisoned Fry and Bender, the animals of Vergon 6, her loneliness mixed with the as-yet-legendary stature of Zapp, her lifelong training to follow the status quo, and her pity, to make one simple sacrifice. One simple sacrifice that she wakes up screaming from the next morning.

C'mon. I've slept with guys for far, far fewer reasons, most of them much less logical than Leela's motives. (And I've woken up shuddering, too.) Give her a friggin' break.

Zapp used his power and reputation to try to get Leela into bed. When that didn't work so well, he tried sham-pag-en and pity. All on a woman who thought herself an alien and an orphan with no romantic prospects and plenty of duties to others.

Jeez. You have to have sex-lexia not to understand why she made one night's huge, extremely regrettable, beginner's mistake. Shiny has posted several excellent, inside-Leela's-mind-and-character explanations. All I can add, being me, is some more storyline logic and some cynical explanations.

Face it. Zapp used a vulnerable captain with little space or emotional experience. Big surprise. I'd say he's a d!ck, but I don't want to insult d!cks. Unlike Zapp, they're actually useful. And unlike Zapp's, they usually stay at attention much longer.

(And no, d!cks doesn't mean ducks.)

He's good.

Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #741 on: 11-06-2006 07:22 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Cyberphobia:
I think of Cold Angel as more emo then goth. He is quite emotional. And he gets moved by shippy stuff.

Tut, tut. Haven't I taught you guys anything? His name is not 'Cold' 'Angel', it's 'Col' 'Dangel'.

Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #742 on: 11-06-2006 07:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
 Tut, tut. Haven't I taught you guys anything? His name is not 'Cold' 'Angel', it's 'Col' 'Dangel'.

I've never heard you say that before. Obviously, you're not doing a very good teaching job LOL
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #743 on: 11-06-2006 07:34 »
« Last Edit on: 11-06-2006 07:34 »

Ok gotta go to bed, anyone decided yet where shippers go after page 20 ? Is it a new thread or Deep Down ?

If it's DD I can edit and put a link to this thread right in the first post. Also it should be renamed to have 'blah-blah..part III' in it. If it's a new thread pls post the link, thanks [yawn]
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #744 on: 11-06-2006 08:05 »

What's an emo?
I'm not a goth... I don't think. I wear a lot of black but I don't have piercings or makeup or any crap like that.
I do collect knives though...
...shit I *am* kinda creepy come to think of it. But I have a sense of humour about myself so it's a harmless kind of creepy...
Unless you piss me off, then I'll cut you open from groin to sternum. RARR!!  tongue
I kid, I'm a good guy. In a dark antihero kind of way... you know, like how Riddick is a vicious serial killer in Pitch Black but then ends up saving everyone. Yeah...
I apologise for my dreary commentary above. I was in a foul, MURDEROUS mood because my real estate agent told me to mow my lawn. THE NERVE!! I've a good mind to set her family on fire.
No really, what is an emo? Is it like an emu? 'Cause I take offence to being labelled a flightless bird. I'm more like a hawk or osprey. Not an eagle, they're too showy and have pro-American connotations, but I'm certainly a bird of Prey. Not a stupid emu... come on!

Tom Allen sounds as if he or she is a little panic-stricken to preserve the purity of the great and incorruptible Leela. I think it's easier to just say she's human; humans are monumentally silly creatures who sometimes do things for no good reason, often as a result of pre-set biological imperitives.
Like the Moby song: "We are all made of long-chain organic molecules"... although I might have that quote wrong. Humans have little choice but to do what their selfish, atavistic DNA requires them to do. We are, after all, only vehicles for those organic compounds, and everything we do is the result of an evolved requirement to pass on genetic material, thus ensuring the immortality of said material.
Thus love is meaningless.

Call the new thread:
"This concept of 'wuv' confuses and infuriates us!!! - the long-winded shipper thread III"
any1else

Space Pope
****
« Reply #745 on: 11-06-2006 08:22 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
No really, what is an emo? Is it like an emu?

laff My dear friend Kara said something about 'emos' a few weeks back and I thought she said emus. I said "Emu farm?! Ha!"

 
Quote
Humans have little choice but to do what their selfish, atavistic DNA requires them to do. We are, after all, only vehicles for those organic compounds, and everything we do is the result of an evolved requirement to pass on genetic material, thus ensuring the immortality of said material.
That, but also, from the age of about 8ish humans develop what are called 'self-conscious' emotions, where from then on a large portion of what we do is specifically in relation to the prior or desired reaction from someone else/groups of people. Therefore a lot of what Leela/Fry does may be to change the other's perpective - rather than a biological response - as goes most of the discussion here.... After all, they live in the future. What good is biology there?   roll eyes
But then...what good is human companionship, when you have robots!
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #746 on: 11-06-2006 08:30 »

Emotions come from the brain and the brain is derived from a genetic blueprint. Genetics exist only to be passed on. Therefor emotion must be fraudulent and cannot be trusted.

Call the new thread:
"This concept of 'wuv' confuses and infuriates us!!! - the long-winded shipper thread III"
any1else

Space Pope
****
« Reply #747 on: 11-06-2006 08:43 »

If it's all fraudulent then why bother to pass it on? I'm not going to go into that.  big grin
Seeing how this is a shipper thread and all..and 'shipper' encompasses some kind of delerious cheerful hope. Those within the ship use these fraudulent emotions as much as their biolgical urges, perhaps even more. In Leela's case perhaps not enough biological? Or not enough at the right time...
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #748 on: 11-06-2006 08:46 »

All human endeavour is pointless in the eyes of MORBO!!


Call the new thread:
"This concept of 'wuv' confuses and infuriates us!!! - the long-winded shipper thread III"
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #749 on: 11-06-2006 10:28 »

Okay, so three votes (or is it four?) for the "concept of wuv" thread title from three (or four) of C.Old.Ang.El's multiple personalities.... and I think Fry_B may be willing to edit the first post of the DD thread if we want to continue the Intelligent, Long-Winded Shipper Thread series there....

I thought the "Ship Harder!" idea came from me, actually (based on the "Die Hard 2/Die Harder" model), but I'm too lazy to go look it up, even for self-aggrandizement.  (Besides, Xanfor's quoting of my smackdown gentle remonstrance of futz amused and satisfied my ego sufficiently for a while.  tongue )

And to quote Wikipedia:
Quote
Emo is a slang term derived from the word "emotional", used to describe a range of fashion styles and attitudes somewhat affiliated with emo music and its related scene. As an adjective, emo can describe a style of fashion or music; or a general state of unhappiness or melancholy (as in "to feel emo" ), as those stereotyped of emo are often unhappy, think they are misunderstood, and may have mild paranoia....

coldangel, emo...?  Nah, he's the very picture of even-tempered common sense and optimistic appreciation of life.

 wink

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel1:
Tom Allen sounds as if he or she is a little panic-stricken to preserve the purity of the great and incorruptible Leela....

Leela's pure and incorruptible nature is self-evident...one may get exasperated at pointing this out, but never panicked.

 
Quote
Humans have little choice but to do what their selfish, atavistic DNA requires them to do. We are, after all, only vehicles for those organic compounds, and everything we do is the result of an evolved requirement to pass on genetic material, thus ensuring the immortality of said material.
Thus love is meaningless.

All communication is nothing but attempts to form and consummate connections between other individuals with genetic material that may be mixed with our own.  Therefore all human intelligence, forms of discourse, and all forums are meaningless.  Therefore your post is meaningless.  Therefore I win the thread.  And keep your jelly away from my eggs.

Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #750 on: 11-06-2006 15:56 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
Okay, so three votes (or is it four?) for the "concept of wuv" thread title from three (or four) of C.Old.Ang.El's multiple personalities.... and I think Fry_B may be willing to edit the first post of the DD thread if we want to continue the Intelligent, Long-Winded Shipper Thread series there....

And the Ship Harder option as well.. So what is it gonna be...

BTW I intend to edit my first post in the DD thread anyway (and push the existing contents a bit down) to add a brief reason as to why that thread was created - now that I understand better why I joined PEEL  smile. Also my work commitments are coming hard and fast like Brannigan's love so posting in two, max three threads  pretty much fills up my Futuramming time - remember I'm OLD..

KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #751 on: 11-06-2006 16:34 »

I like Coldangel_1's suggestion. I'm all for it.
Doesn't 'wuv' confuse us all? It certainly can be hard to see past a character's shown emotions to see the true being om the inside...
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #752 on: 11-06-2006 18:23 »

Okay then, judging from that explanation I'm not even remotely 'emo'. I don't go in for that kind of self-absorbed wankery. Melancholy people piss me off. Most things piss me off. I'm an angry young man. Stay out of my way or I'll cut ya!
You keep your eggs away from my jelly, lousy human!

BTW, your explanation of genetic fatalism actually came across more coherently than mine. I applaud you and secretly conspire toward your downfall.

Here's a question that might have to be carried over to the new thread:
If at some point Leela decided she wanted kids, do you think she might ask Fry to be a donor? I only ask 'cause that's what happened with Scully and Mulder in The X Files. Also, how would this affect their friendship?
Seems a strange hypothetical... but all this talk of eggs and jelly got me thinking.
Cyberphobia

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #753 on: 11-06-2006 21:09 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
I thought the "Ship Harder!" idea came from me, actually (based on the "Die Hard 2/Die Harder" model), but I'm too lazy to go look it up, even for self-aggrandizement. 
Oh, I'm sorry! When I looked back at the last thread I saw KitKatBar-Fry suggesting it and others saying they like KKBF's idea. But I only skimmed the thread so it could possibly have been you suggesting it because I didn't look very closely.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #754 on: 11-07-2006 02:21 »

Eh, it matters not.  Could have been KKBF after all (too lazy to look it up, etc. ).  All ideas come from the Collective Unconscious, ultimately...which one of us they vector through isn't so important (unless it's my fic, to which I'm inordinately attached).

Hmmm, angry young man, huh, coldangel?  Well, there's varieties of "dark-subculture" types that lean toward the "tough"...like the "Goth-a-billy" or the "Rivet-Head" or some such.  I dunno, I'm just a book nerd/media fan meself, and I honestly have no clue what an angry young man who veers pell-mell between high cynicism, outback-machismo, and shippy, senstive insight might want to project as an image.  My gut level reaction is to tell you to ditch the cynical machismo, it's just a facade, the real you is actually sensitive and insightful and there's nothing wrong with it so relax and chill out...and that harping on one's toughness and anger is just as much self-absorbed wankery as wallowing in one's "emotionalness" (only the specific emotions are different; the focus on oneself remains).  Hmm, I guess that "relax and just be yourself" isn't the most original nor penetrative advice, but it's the only one that's ever worked for me (my real self tends to hack its way into the daylight anyway, no matter what I do, so not fighting it at least saves me a lot of stress and effort), and the fact is I like talking about shippiness in the Shipper thread and you have some good stuff to say about Fry and Leela when you're not in high-volume Cynical mode.

I am reminded of a dual toast I heard...

"Here's to soft-hearted cynics.  May they always be there to save dewy-eyed idealists....

"...and here's to dewy-eyed idealists.  May they always survive to become soft-hearted cynics."

Apple Tea

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #755 on: 11-07-2006 03:32 »

Here! Here! *clinks glasses*
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #756 on: 11-07-2006 03:53 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shiny:
Hmmm, angry young man, huh, coldangel?  Well, there's varieties of "dark-subculture" types that lean toward the "tough"...like the "Goth-a-billy" or the "Rivet-Head" or some such.  I dunno, I'm just a book nerd/media fan meself, and I honestly have no clue what an angry young man who veers pell-mell between high cynicism, outback-machismo, and shippy, senstive insight might want to project as an image.  My gut level reaction is to tell you to ditch the cynical machismo, it's just a facade, the real you is actually sensitive and insightful and there's nothing wrong with it so relax and chill out...and that harping on one's toughness and anger is just as much self-absorbed wankery as wallowing in one's "emotionalness" (only the specific emotions are different; the focus on oneself remains).  Hmm, I guess that "relax and just be yourself" isn't the most original nor penetrative advice, but it's the only one that's ever worked for me (my real self tends to hack its way into the daylight anyway, no matter what I do, so not fighting it at least saves me a lot of stress and effort), and the fact is I like talking about shippiness in the Shipper thread and you have some good stuff to say about Fry and Leela when you're not in high-volume Cynical mode.


Oh I have no real self that I'm aware of. I am just a series of elabourate facades wrapped around another series of elabourate facades. Kind of like an onion, and just as pungent.
Although I like the sound of 'Rivet-Head'... seems cool.
Fry_B

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #757 on: 11-07-2006 05:30 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
 
Oh I have no real self that I'm aware of. I am just a series of elabourate facades wrapped around another series of elabourate facades. Kind of like an onion, and just as pungent.
Although I like the sound of 'Rivet-Head'... seems cool.

You'll probably either yawn or go Panucci (come ooooon!) but maybe you can believe me ColdAngel, some of what Shiny sugggested will (ok, let's say may) happen anyway in time... You know, nothing beats the passing of time. I mean, getting older. Yes you will remain young at heart (if you're lucky enough), but there is no escape from maturing ...be that good or bad. I'm not preaching here, I speak from experience.

Anywayz.. it seems everyone blissfully slides towards the last page of this thread and I've seen no contingency plans.
Cool ! Soon, there will be panic (again I speak from experience). No matter. I'll be waiting in the Deep Down thread  smile mwhahahaa

coldangel

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #758 on: 11-07-2006 07:05 »

*yawn*
Come oooooon!
I am what I am. What I always have been, and what I always will be. And I'm not that complicated.
Time is the unconquerable foe, but maturity is something I was forced to surmount at a very early age. I'm older than I am.
And the way I present myself on an online forum is not an accurate reflection upon who and what I am in the real world - I am a writer of fiction after all  tongue

Why are we talking about me?

Nobody commented on my hypothetical up there. Too leftfield?
FENIX

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #759 on: 11-07-2006 07:14 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by coldangel_1:
the way I present myself on an online forum is not an accurate reflection upon who and what I am in the real world

Here here!
Pages: 1 ... 16 17 18 [19] 20 Print 
 Topic locked! 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2006, Simple Machines | some icons from famfamfam
Legal Notice & Disclaimer: "Futurama" TM and copyright FOX, its related entities and the Curiosity Company. All rights reserved. Any reproduction, duplication or distribution of these materials in any form is expressly prohibited. As a fan site, this Futurama forum, its operators, and any content on the site relating to "Futurama" are not explicitely authorized by Fox or the Curiosity Company.
Page created in 0.229 seconds with 17 queries.