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Author Topic: Why do you think Leela did 'it' with Zapp?  (Read 1516 times)
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KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« on: 08-09-2006 22:30 »

I've always wondered why Leela did what she did that nught with Zapp. I mean, she had standards, and I personally wouldn't jump in bed with someone just cuz they're a loser. Fellow PEEL mambers, please post  your thoughts!
Benders_Fan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #1 on: 08-09-2006 23:11 »
« Last Edit on: 08-09-2006 23:11 »

Welcome to PEEL KitKatBar-Fry. Enjoy your stay here.

You should read the  PEEL Faq: http://www.peelified.com/ubb/faq.html


And to answer your question, I'm not really sure. She said she felt sorry for him, so I don't know.   hmpf
TheGlob

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #2 on: 08-09-2006 23:16 »
« Last Edit on: 08-12-2006 00:00 »

Welcome To Peel Kit and i think she was so sorry for him she was guilt tripped into having sex with him.


ShortRoundMcfly

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #3 on: 08-10-2006 01:41 »

It was all right there in the episode.
Nerd-o-rama

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #4 on: 08-10-2006 02:29 »

RTFP (that's Read the First Post.)

Pity/sympathy, desperation, maybe some of that cham-paggen...
futurefreak

salutatory committee member
Moderator
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #5 on: 08-10-2006 03:26 »

every hero (or heroine) usually has a flaw. hers was that one time of irrational thinking due to the circumstances of the current situation...or so i think
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #6 on: 08-10-2006 08:54 »

Thanks for welcoming me here. It makes me a lot more comfortable.  smile SRMcF, where in the episode? I'm all open to any thoughts you have, so tell me what you think.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #7 on: 08-10-2006 10:41 »

She did it out of pity.  Sad, but it happens.

Also, keep in mind that this was a first-season episode, and Leela wasn't exactly full of self-esteem herself back then.
Wooter

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #8 on: 08-10-2006 11:26 »

Pity, as well as that velour bedspread.

Who can resist velour? I know I can't.
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #9 on: 08-10-2006 11:50 »

hmm...disturbing, yet I guess it could happen. I always thought that maybe the champagne was involved somehow. Maybe he got her drunk somehow?
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #10 on: 08-10-2006 12:51 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:
I've always wondered why Leela did what she did that nught with Zapp.
She told us herself. I don't remember the exact line but, it was along the lines of; "... For a split-second, my self-respect was overwhelmed by pity."
Quote
Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:
I always thought that maybe the champagne was involved somehow. Maybe he got her drunk somehow?
Ah, no. Remember she poured it into the planter when Zap wasn't looking.  hmpf

Welcome to our little corner of paradise. It's not much but we call it P.E.E.L.
P.E.E.L: A more vile hive of nerds and geekery you will not find!
LayZ341

Professor
*
« Reply #11 on: 08-10-2006 13:25 »

People say that women are smarter than men, but that doesn't mean they don't make mistakes. Everyone is entitled to at least one "mistake". Usually alcohol or some other inhibitor is involved. I respect Zapp for his game (champagne + velour + pity = success), even if it was on accident.
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #12 on: 08-10-2006 15:02 »

Thanks for the welcome, SpaceCase. Always nice to have people say hello  big grin I know she poured it on the plant, but maybe, when he was puting on the pity act, Zapp offered her some champagne and she accepted?  confused
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #13 on: 08-10-2006 15:29 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by KitKatBar-Fry:
Thanks for the welcome, SpaceCase. Always nice to have people say hello   big grin
You're welcome. No thanks required.
Quote
I know she poured it on the plant, but maybe, when he was puting on the pity act, Zapp offered her some champagne and she accepted?   confused
It's possible, though not "canon."
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #14 on: 08-10-2006 15:34 »

I'm new here, so could you please explain what 'canon' is? I've seen it used before, so I should know what it is. smile
Thanks
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #15 on: 08-10-2006 15:43 »
« Last Edit on: 08-10-2006 15:43 »

Canon in this context refers to facts, events, characters and character traits that are cinsidered official by the creators.

In this instance, the notion that Leela poured the champagne into the plant happened in the episode, it's an event the wirters/creators have told us took place in the Futurama universe. It's canon.

The idea that maybe Leela drank a glass of champagne later, is a speculation on our part. Possible yes, but not approved by the creators. It's not canon.

Welcome to PEEL. Enjoy it here.
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #16 on: 08-10-2006 16:06 »

Thank you very much. I figured that if I'm going to be a member of PEEL, I should know the terminology.  smile smile smile
KurtPikachu2001

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #17 on: 08-11-2006 20:43 »

I think, at first, she thought Zapp was this great and wonderful person.  Then after that little incident, she realized what a jerk Zapp really was. 
Chug a Bug

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #18 on: 08-11-2006 21:15 »

I think she was still intoxicated by who he was i.e. a decorated DOOP captain and his good looks etc.. but he wasn't making any headway with her until he turned on the tears and she fell for it... like she said she felt sorry for and him and then one thing led to another... and she didn't fully realise what a jerk he was until it was too late. At least thats my take on it.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #19 on: 08-12-2006 01:57 »
« Last Edit on: 08-12-2006 01:57 »

I thing she was pretty much over being impressed with him by the time she was calling him a "pompous dimwit who threw me in prison." 

But beneath her tough-gal facade Leela's got a soft and gentle heart, and she couldn't help but feel empathy for, and try to comfort, someone as utterly pathetic as Zapp was being at that moment.  No doubt Zapp remained inconsolable until things progressed to the point of "pity f*&k."  (Do I think he was faking?  No, I think he's too dumb.  But he clearly knows on an instinctive level how to play up his pitiableness when things go against him, i.e., "Brannigan Begin Again" )

Naturally, Leela's good deed did not go unpunished.
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #20 on: 08-12-2006 19:14 »

Pity might be a turn-on for Leela, it is a superior position over the pityed. Pitying a famous galactic hero (true or not) or someone like an important Senator may just be more of a turn-on. Pitying Fry doesn't work because it's not much of a step up.

That and obviously she had the blues for quite a while leading up to it. If it didn't work out, Zapp would be light years away most of the time.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #21 on: 08-12-2006 23:40 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Pity might be a turn-on for Leela, it is a superior position over the pityed. Pitying a famous galactic hero (true or not) or someone like an important Senator may just be more of a turn-on.

I suppose...IF you think that Leela finds "superiority" to be any kind of turn-on, which I do not.  (I think that, like most people who had to grow up fast and take care of themselves too early, she is on a deep level very, very tired of always being the responsible, "in charge" one...and that nothing could be less of a turn-on for her. )

 
Quote
Pitying Fry doesn't work because it's not much of a step up.

Leela seems to warm up most to Fry when she's farthest from pitying him.

 
Quote
That and obviously she had the blues for quite a while leading up to it. If it didn't work out, Zapp would be light years away most of the time.

I think you're ascribing WAY too much logic to Leela's thought processes on that fateful evening.  People who get to reason through their decision, no matter how briefly, usually don't wake up screaming when they realize what they've done.

futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #22 on: 08-13-2006 08:17 »

Hmm, well she admired Zapp from a distance before she actually met him while no one Amy tried to fix her up with at the bar was good enough. Let's see, the bedroom scene. Zapp agressive, egotistical - Leela no like, Zapp crying - Leela hop in bed, Wake up Zapp back to being agressive, egotistical - Leela no like.

I didn't say that it was an conscious or coniving thought process. Remember in My Three Suns Fry telling her, "I told you a hundred times to stop treating me like a baby." And of course there's always the type of things that happen with office romances.

A turn-on can be something a person has that they didn't know they had and can be quite spontaneous. I think you see different aspects of her personality depending on who she's with, but her own insight is "I've been a fool. A fully-justified, prudent fool".
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #23 on: 08-13-2006 10:01 »

I think it's all very simple. She was incredibly lonely and he played on that lonliness. He was talking about how isolated he was and having felt the same way she took the bait. Had he used any other tactic it wouldn't have worked but he hit on the one weakness she does have, her feelings of isolation.
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #24 on: 08-13-2006 11:20 »

Speaking captian to captian as you say.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #25 on: 08-13-2006 11:26 »
« Last Edit on: 08-13-2006 11:26 »

What Venus said. 

   
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Hmm, well she admired Zapp from a distance before she actually met him

Zapp is portrayed as a hero by the media - she had no reason NOT to admire him.  (And she was attracted to him then, which sorta blows your theory that pity is her main turn-on...    wink but onward... )

   
Quote
while no one Amy tried to fix her up with at the bar was good enough.

She did say "maybe" to the unseen guy that Bender claimed was gay...but I don't think we have a wide enough sample to draw  conclusions about her tastes from, two seen guys with one unseen.
 
   
Quote
Let's see, the bedroom scene. Zapp agressive, egotistical - Leela no like, Zapp crying - Leela hop in bed, Wake up Zapp back to being agressive, egotistical - Leela no like.

No woman in her right MIND would like Zapp in those scenes...and it was Zapp's throwing her and her friends into jail and dooming a lot of endangered animals for no reason that turned Leela off him first.

Y'know, I think the problem is that you're assuming that Leela had to be attracted to Zapp in order to sleep with him.  I think it's clear that she was anything BUT attracted to him then.

Women don't HAVE to feel "turned on" to sleep with another person...sometimes they do it to provide, or receive, the comfort of physical closeness, which is not the same thing.

I didn't understand how your other examples related to your theory, so I won't comment on them.  But I did want to point out that the very concept of a "pity f*&%" (which is what her night with Zapp clearly was) sort of assumes that a woman can "do it" without feeling particularly turned on.
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #26 on: 08-13-2006 13:01 »

Nope, nope. I said piting was a superior position to being pitied. Perhaps I should called it red light, green light rather than turn-on. As superior relates to feeling safe or secure in proceeding. Not so much a pity-f*ck.

But I have to wonder if Leela has a bit of a mental problem. She often assualts and beats up the guys she's done it with verbally and physically. Zapp, Alkazar, the very normal doctor. She snaps very quickly between love and hate and appears to have little self control. Makes one wonder if there aren't a lot of TRO's and warrants with her name on them out there we don't know about. At least that may be the word on the street.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #27 on: 08-13-2006 13:15 »
« Last Edit on: 08-13-2006 13:15 »

Read Ralph Snart's fanfic if you're beginning to think that way. And then prepare for the return blast of the Shiny's emotional wrath.

Me? I'm going to get some popcorn.

futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #28 on: 08-13-2006 13:39 »

Yeah, popcorn sounds good. Got some for tonights toons.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #29 on: 08-13-2006 16:36 »

Well let's see, Zapp won't take no for an answer, Alkazar tried to trick her into becoming his personal slave, Adlai insulted a disfigured child... i don't see how smacking them around constitutes a mental problem on Leela's part. She was provoked each time.
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #30 on: 08-13-2006 21:45 »

Good luck with that.
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #31 on: 08-13-2006 22:40 »

Well, I just read this thread, and I am glad to see everyone debating this topic 'nicely'. I've seen a whole bunch of non-canon discussion here, so keep up the ideas, or I will have to destroy you. no no
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #32 on: 08-13-2006 22:54 »
« Last Edit on: 08-13-2006 22:54 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Nope, nope. I said piting was a superior position to being pitied. Perhaps I should called it red light, green light rather than turn-on. As superior relates to feeling safe or secure in proceeding. Not so much a pity-f*ck.

Please...it's "f*&%."  This IS a family forum.   tongue

As per your argument: sure...pity creates a feeling of safety.  That's why manipulative people use it to get what they want (a more cynical example than Zapp is the hilarious "Cabbage Head" guy of the "Kids in the Hall" comedy group, who makes Zapp Brannigan look charming and polite; and on the female side the principle is demonstrated somewhat by Michelle, our own Fry's ex).

But you're wrong in thinking that this feeling of safety in pity is a positive feeling for her - she has never seemed to "get off on" pitying anyone (I repeat that she seemed closest to Fry when she was FARTHEST from pitying him). Furthermore, I would characterize Leela's emotion in LLLiS as a mix of pity and sympathy.  Just to clarify:

Sympathy: sym- means together with, pathos means emotions.  Literally, "to feel together with another."  Their emotion arouses your emotion, like tuning forks in resonance.

Empathy: em means “into,” so literally “to feel into another;” to sympathize so much that one feels almost a part of another person, as though their pain IS your pain.

Pity: from Latin pius, dutiful.  Now, “duty” comes from the same root as “debt;” So to pity another is to do something for them because you feel you owe them (due to cultural and/or religious rules and expectations).

I do NOT see that Leela slept with Zapp because she felt she “owed” him, at least, not THAT much, for rejecting his idiotic advances...I think she was genuinely sympathetic.  There was nothing patronizing in her voice as she put her arm around him and said “it’s not so bad.” 

Pity may contain the seeds of superiority, but sympathy does the very opposite...it makes you feel connected to someone, makes you their equal through shared misery.  I think it was a mixture of pity AND sympathy that directed her actions; pity made her pat his shoulder and say something nice, but only sympathy could get her to offer the...uh...extreme comfort she did.  Another clue: Zapp spoke of loneliness, and  loneliness is a well-established keystone of Leela’s character, right from the pilot.  He unknowingly triggered one of her core issues.

I’m sure she characterized it as purely “pity” afterward because she knew she’d been “had” (in more than one sense,   wink ) and now couldn’t believe she’d been so dumb as to fall for it. 

But onward: ever since then, Leela has (very rightly) felt superior to Zapp (who truly is a “pompous dimwit” and a “dumb, gross gorilla” ), but not once has she shown any sign of *ahem* engaging in snu-snu with him - she’s been actively nauseated by it, EVEN when he showed up at her doorstep all pathetic in “Brannigan Begin Again.” 

Meanwhile, the guys she HAS snu-snued (Alkazar), has possibly snu-snued (Adlai), or has wanted to snu-snu (Chaz, Parasites!Fry, possibly Quee-queg and/or William Shatner) have all been (at the time of her attraction) firmly her equal or her social superior (if you go by mainstream standards).

I just don’t see Leela having a thing for superiority.  Nothing in canon backs it up.

~~~

And on the issue of Leela's violence, Venus TOTALLY ownz you!      tongue    tongue
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #33 on: 08-13-2006 23:05 »

(Xanfor prepares to back Shiny up)

(Sees that Shiny needs no backing up)

(Pouts)

(Holds grudge against Shiny)

(Notices that she says 'Parasites!Fry')

(Notes that self prefers TomAllen's term 'Fry++')

(Sees no reasonable way to bring up topic)

(Notes Shiny mentioned William Shatner)

(Looks at Shiny inquiringly)

(Remembers grudge)

(Says 'Humph' and turns away)

(Glances back at Shiny's post)

(Notices that she knows Latin)

(Giggles)

(Sighs because post is absolutely worthless)

(Suddenly smiles)

(Points at futz)

Burn!  wink

KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #34 on: 08-14-2006 02:13 »

Whoa, that was a long one, Shiny. But you people, listen to her, dammit! The speech may be long-winded and confusing to my underdeveloped brain, but it has things in it you should listen to. I would compliment it, but I don't really understand much of it, due to the big words used.  no no so I;ll just tell eveyone else to read it and translate it for me.  wink
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #35 on: 08-14-2006 08:43 »

You really think that's what Leela was thinking when she's bobbing Zapp's knob. Your little speech went on longer than they're "night of passion".

Note to self: If Leela plants boot in Venus's teeth because Venus called a perfectly beautiful child with 3 ears "disfigured", cheer for Leela.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #36 on: 08-14-2006 10:23 »
« Last Edit on: 08-14-2006 10:23 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
You really think that's what Leela was thinking when she's bobbing Zapp's knob. Your little speech went on longer than they're "night of passion".

I believe I explained that I don’t think Leela was thinking much at all at that point.  But if you want it all spelled out, then I think her mental processes went something like this (please allow for verbal representation of non-verbal thoughts and emotional states):

Leela: "What a jerk.  Oh crud, he's crying!  I didn't mean to hurt his feelings THAT bad!  Quick, cheer him up.  Say something comforting. You shouldn't have been so harsh, Leela, it's like kicking a puppy...a great big, galumphing, drooling, stupid, horny puppy, but still just a...."

[Zapp: I'm just so LONELYYYYYY!]

Leela (feels awakening of a very old, hollow pain in the middle of her chest, and hot tears spring to her eye): "Oh god...I've felt that bad...I can't think of anything positive to say to that!  Is this all I have to look forward to?  Poor guy....oh bleah, he's trying to kiss me...well, maybe it'll make him feel barely, marginally better *sob* oh GOD what's wrong with me, I'm acting like a big baby...I wish I felt barely, marginally better...oh god, look at me I'm such a basket case...there he goes again, oh, why don&#8217;t I just let him, at least it&#8217;ll make HIM happy, and it&#8217;s not like I deserve any better, I really am a worthless freak and no one will ever love meeeeee <hic> *sob*sob* <hic> *sob*...."


 
Quote
Note to self: If Leela plants boot in Venus's teeth because Venus called a perfectly beautiful child with 3 ears "disfigured", cheer for Leela.

Oh, I think Leela&#8217;s going to be too tuckered out from kicking someone else&#8217;s teeth...someone who suggests that the most embarrassing mistake of her life was made from some &#8220;superiority&#8221; hangup, rather than just a badly misplaced kindness...someone who discusses the subject with all the sensitivity and understanding of a frat boy whose steady girlfriend has sprung a leak...someone who evades logical arguments by ridiculing their thoroughness or by climbing up on a high horse and going &#8220;Nyaah!&#8221; at some minor point of phrasing, using feigned &#8220;sensitivity&#8221; as camoflage...someone in obvious denial of being on the &#8220;-down&#8221; side of rapidly successive smackdowns....someone in this veeeeery thread.....      
KitKatBar-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #37 on: 08-14-2006 10:32 »

congrads, Shiny, on writing another long, yet informative speech. I tip my bonnet to you. Very in-depth with Leela's POV. and thank you for writing less big words. I now understand almost all of it, and its good.  wink
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #38 on: 08-14-2006 10:59 »

Or maybe someone who parses words, makes up things people didn't say, buries it in a long-winded rationlization, and thinks winning a discusion is merely getting the last and most words in when there really isn't anything to win?
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #39 on: 08-14-2006 12:10 »

Then what are you complaining about?  tongue

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