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Author Topic: Fry's Missing Y Chromosome  (Read 2908 times)
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losttheskyagain

Crustacean
*
« on: 07-07-2006 19:00 »

(yes, i did post this on the Billy West Forum  big grin)

In the commentary for "Roswell that Ends Well," DXC brings up the fact that Fry shouldn't have a Y chromosome. I was thinking about this all day, and came up with a [very improbable] solution to the problem.

View this as a "Scenario A + Scenario B = Fry" sort of equation.

SCENARIO A
It has been known to happen that if a woman who has sex with two men within 24 hours can give birth to two children, each belonging to a different father.

SCENARIO B
Fry or Fry's father could be a chimera. A chimera is a person with two different sets of DNA, and are genetically two people in one body. This usually happens when the embryo splits (completely or not), but one doesn't grow and is absorbed by the other half. Essentially, the person is their own twin.

A + B = FRY
Enos impregnated Mildred less than 24 hours before Fry did. Two embryos began to grow and one enveloped the other. Thus Fry's father was born a chimera, and Fry has a Y chromosome.

Sorry, I really like genetics. See any flaws?
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #1 on: 07-07-2006 19:44 »
« Last Edit on: 07-07-2006 19:44 »

Only one: What if Enos didn't impregnate Mildred less then 24 hours before Fry?

Sorry, I really like finding flaws. Plus, I dislike any chain of reasoning that ends with Fry being unable to marry Leela and have children. You didn't say that, but I'm just warning you.   wink

Oh, and welcome to PEEL.

losttheskyagain

Crustacean
*
« Reply #2 on: 07-07-2006 20:15 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
Only one: What if Enos didn't impregnate Mildred less then 24 hours before Fry?

haha, it is a very, very, insanely improbable scenario.  big grin It's just a thought really.

And how could I be anti-Fry/Leela?! I just couldn't, that's how.  big grin

Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #3 on: 07-07-2006 21:55 »

Ah, yes, grasshopper, you are wise, very wise indeed!

Wooter

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #4 on: 07-07-2006 22:50 »
« Last Edit on: 07-07-2006 22:50 »

I just think it's a time paradox. He got his Y chromosome from himself, and exists in a closed temporal loop, sort of like the book of translations in By His Bootstraps (A Robert Heinlein short story.)

I just love crazy, old fashioned science fiction explanations like that.
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #5 on: 07-07-2006 23:47 »
« Last Edit on: 07-07-2006 23:47 »

Curses!  I, too, thought of Fry's dad being a chimera a while ago, but I was saving it for a story or something....but nothing ever came to mind, so I guess it's just as well. 

Hallo, losttheskyagain!  Welcome to PEEL.  You a Firefly fan, or does your name refer to something else?

Xanfor: Yancy Sr. being a chimera doesn't make Fry unable to marry or have children.  If Fry's dad had children, then Fry (who would only inherit one set of genes, that is, a blend of Enos and Mildred's + his mom's blend) is not going to have a problem.

No, being a chimera just means that some of your organs differ genetically from others of your organs.  I'm interested in the "vanishing twin" syndrome, which is how I came to come up with the same theory as 'sky (may I call you 'sky?).  Anyway, they used chimeraism(?) on Law & Order once...a guy submitted to a DNA swab of his saliva because he knew it wouldn't match his blood or hair or whatever possibly nastier sample they had from the crime scene, but they worked it out eventually.

Anyway, I like the theory (obviously, since my brain went there too!); it's a clever way to account for Fry's Y chromosome.  And it could have been sleeping with Mildred that made Enos realize that his interests lay in another direction...   tongue
tyraniak

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #6 on: 07-08-2006 00:25 »

Maybe Mildred was more than 24 hours pregnant with Enos' child and Fry banged his grandma for no apparent reason
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #7 on: 07-08-2006 04:27 »

Time paradox! Brain Spawn just took over the Earth in a parallel universe...

losttheskyagain

Crustacean
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« Reply #8 on: 07-08-2006 12:45 »

@ Shiny: 

Hurray! I'm not the ONLY person who came up with this crazy theory! I don't feel so alone now, ahha. And I have never seen Firefly... what's it about?


@ tyraniak:

Let me tell you, this theory assumes a LOT of things. It's as improbable as microwaved metal and a supernova catapaulting you into the past.
TomAllen

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #9 on: 07-08-2006 14:49 »

OK, all you smarties.  Here's a solution I bet you never thought of, I betcha, nyah!  (And maybe you did think of it and can probably easily dispute it.  But I would like to hear the reasoning.)

Why do we assume Enos is Fry's grandfather _on his father's side_?

After all, it's Fry's mother who has the Enos-Fry red hairstyle, even down to those two pointy widow's-peak things.  I ask you, haven't you ever wondered why _she_ had the red hair?  Or did that elude you, fellow Shippers?  wink

Suppose Grandma Mildred was Fry's _maternal_ grandmother.  Then Fry would have given his X chromosome to his mother (XX), who then passed an X on to both Yancy and Philip Fry, with Yancy Sr. delivering the manly Y.

Depending on which X chromosome was passed on, one child might have his father's dominant dark hair (Yancy) and another his mother's recessive red hair (Fry).

If you insist, therefore, that Fry got his chromosomes from regular space-time sex, then Fry donated an X to his mother, who may or may not have donated that X to Fry.  (Given the nasty-in-the-pasty plot, she probably did give him her X.  Strictly speaking, though, that wouldn't be required.  It could be Mildred's X, not Fry's, that was passed down through the generations.)

Yeah, yeah.  I betcha if I go back again and listen real closely, Enos's last name is specified somewhere as "Fry".  So what?  You think two Smiths, or Joneses, or for that matter Allens never married?  So why can't Fry's parents both have been named Fry?  I mean, that's a name the General would trust, right?  Especially with the Y2K on the horizon.

Anyhow, that's my latest theory.  It doesn't have anything to do with chimeras, and not that much to do with time paradoxes, but it seems a simple enough explanation.  So who wants to be the first to try to poke a hole in it?


 
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #10 on: 07-08-2006 20:40 »

Not me. I respect you now.  wink

losttheskyagain

Crustacean
*
« Reply #11 on: 07-08-2006 23:08 »

@ TomAllen: 

I often thought of Fry being his own maternal grandfather, and that would take a very easy way out. I probably should have specified that this theory was an all-out try at explaining how Fry was his *paternal* grandfather.

(to be truthful, the commentary is what drove me to this b/c DXC says something about making it more complicated with Enos being on his father's side)
HopelessShipper

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #12 on: 07-09-2006 01:31 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
Plus, I dislike any chain of reasoning that ends with Fry being unable to marry Leela and have children.
We expect no less.

This is an example of what makes this show so great. How many other comedies force you to think about genetics.
Assuming Fry is his dad's dad, then it has to be a time paradox.

Bring on the pudding!
Arkan

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #13 on: 07-09-2006 07:13 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by TomAllen:
So who wants to be the first to try to poke a hole in it?

Well, all right...if you insist.

It's a good theory...but there are two things (and probably more that I've forgotten about) that suggest Enos is Fry's paternal grandfather:
1) He shouts "Everything's gonna be alright, Dad!" to Enos' crotch
2) The whole army thing; Enos was in the army, and so was Yancy Sr. Makes sense if it's a family thing.

Enough holes for ya?

*sits back and waits for others to explain away my arguments*
i_c_weiner

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #14 on: 07-09-2006 11:13 »

Fry's an inbred.

Fry is a mix of his father's and mother's side. So, that means that, when he went back in time and did the past nastification, he was giving his father the wife's genes, so, when his father and mother did the nasty, they would create children that are 1/4 Grandma, 3/8 Fry's mom's mom, and 3/8 Fry's mom's dad. So, this would explain how Fry is an idiot, because he's an inbred.

Or maybe Fry had no Y and when he was born one of the X's decided to turn lesbian and get a sex change.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #15 on: 07-09-2006 13:36 »

i_c_weiner is depressing. No, no, Fry is only 25% his own genes, and 75% someone else's. Which creates a paradox, because he should be 100% his own genes!

And Fry's not an idiot, he's just lazy. Shame on you for not noticing!

Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #16 on: 07-09-2006 15:28 »

He's not dumb, his neurons are just "alternately networked."  tongue


And, as I've said before on some other thread I'm too lazy to search for, Fry is 100% his own genes AND whatever percent of his grandparents' and his time travelling self you care to allot.  We all have 200% genes, didn't you know that?  I'm 25% of each of my four grandparents, and 100% of me.  Viola - 200%

But wait, I'm also 50% of both my parents genes...so I have 300% total.  Wow!  Oh, wait, my GREAT grandparents...400%...wait, 500%, 600...

OH MY GOD!  I HAVE INFINITY% GENES!  I'M THE ANTICHRIST!  NOOOOOOOOOOOO!  eek
Dai

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #17 on: 07-09-2006 19:32 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by losttheskyagain:
(yes, i did post this on the Billy West Forum   big grin)

In the commentary for "Roswell that Ends Well," DXC brings up the fact that Fry shouldn't have a Y chromosome. I was thinking about this all day, and came up with a [very improbable] solution to the problem.

View this as a "Scenario A + Scenario B = Fry" sort of equation.

SCENARIO A
It has been known to happen that if a woman who has sex with two men within 24 hours can give birth to two children, each belonging to a different father.

SCENARIO B
Fry or Fry's father could be a chimera. A chimera is a person with two different sets of DNA, and are genetically two people in one body. This usually happens when the embryo splits (completely or not), but one doesn't grow and is absorbed by the other half. Essentially, the person is their own twin.

A + B = FRY
Enos impregnated Mildred less than 24 hours before Fry did. Two embryos began to grow and one enveloped the other. Thus Fry's father was born a chimera, and Fry has a Y chromosome.

Sorry, I really like genetics. See any flaws?

Yes, I see a flaw: Fry has not got a missing Y-chromosome!   no no
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #18 on: 07-09-2006 19:49 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Dai:
 Yes, I see a flaw: Fry has not got a missing Y-chromosome!    no no

You saying Fry is really a girl?   laff
Dai

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #19 on: 07-09-2006 21:06 »

what? I said he has NOT got a missing Y chromosome! If he didn't have a Y chromosome then he would be a girl!  wink
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #20 on: 07-09-2006 23:00 »

Well, the thread is about finding where his "missing" Y chromosome comes from..."missing" in the sense that, according to the DVD commentary, it could only have come from himself and that should be impossible. 

Of course he HAS a Y chromosome.  If it was "missing" as in not there, why would there be a thread about where it came from? 

So I concluded that if you don't think he has a "missing" (that is, origin uncertain) Y chromosome, you must think he has no Y chromosome...hence, you must think he's a girl.

Turns out, you just didn't understand the thread title.   wink
Dai

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #21 on: 07-12-2006 11:38 »

Listen, Fry has not got a missing Y chromosome, thats all I said. As for where his Y chromosome (which is not missing) came from, I think losttheskyagain's theory is pretty sound.

Turns out I did understand the title  wink
TomAllen

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #22 on: 07-12-2006 14:10 »

Well, if you insist that Fry is his own _paternal_ grandfather, then of course things get interesting.

(And indeed, the quote, "Everything's gonna be all right, Dad!" indicates that this is the case, I admit.  Although, how much does Fry know of genetics, even his own?  Well, actually, even he probably does know who his grandparents were.)

Previous answers have included:

Billy West's:  "Enos=MC squared"

Also from the commentary, well, dang, I should know who but I don't:  Enos was the original grandfather, then Fry meddled with space, time, and microwaves.  Oh, and his own grandma.  Meddled.  You know what I mean.  Then *waves arms like Farnsworth*  "And if history doesn't care that out degenerate friend Fry is his own grandfather then who are we to judge?"

If you want to stop waving Farnsworthian arms, though, it's a really hard question.

"So why should we bother?"

Shut up, Bender.  We're dorks aspiring to the genius and eccentricity of Professor Hubert Farnsworth.  Like his clone Cubert is.  And you wouldn't interrupt Cubert -- ow!  Who threw that spitball?

All right, all right.  Let's get geeky serious.

If Fry impregnated his grandmother Mildred, and Mildred gave birth to Yancy, Sr., then Enos's DNA is pretty clearly irrelevant.  Of course, like me, he may never in the original timeline "have found the right girl."  Ahem.  But Mildred had them cookies, sugar.  So quite possibly Grandma Mildred did the nasty with Fry and got her egg popped by  him originally, although other potential suitors can't be excluded.  I mean, Enos was definitely kaput, and Fry was a, well, Fry-by-night romance.  So why shouldn't she have shared her, um, cookies with another man?  But let's exclude this plausible alternate solution, and assume Fry+Mildred = Yancy Sr.

Fry as his own paternal grandfather would also explain such things as the red-haired dominance of him (and, though not Yancy Jr.'s son Philip J. Fry's, but perhaps future) descendants, of whom Hubert is one (and thus Cubert another.)  As is obvious from the series, Fry's Mom is red-haired and has that cowlick too.  So the "Fry X" went from Fry's Mom to Fry, and the "Yancy X" went from Mom to Yancy Jr., with hair color etc. regressive, emerging later on in the Yancy line.

Yes, yes.  Hrmmm.  Obvious.  But where did Fry's Y chromosome come from?  If Grandma Mildred is Fry's grandma on his father's side, she gave him an X.  The Y is either Fry's or someone else's.  At the moment, we're assuming it came from Fry.  So where did the Y of Fry come from?

(And losttheskyagain, shouldn't this thread really, really be named "The Y of Fry"?)

(Is anyone still reading?  You are?  Really?)

For the sake of the patient few, some options are:

(1)  Enos was originally Fry's grandfather, but Fry proved him, didn't he?  (Good, if hand-waving, commentary-provided  solution to the problem.)  Time travel paradoxes and whatnot originate, but hey -- it's the future!  Um, and the past.

(2)  Fry was his own paternal grandfather.  His Y chromosome came from nowhere, and unless future episodes are produced, went nowhere -- except among the family.  There's a slight problem with causation here, but it would explain why all the Frys since are such oddballs, Yancy and Hubert F. included.  Still a paradox, but in line with the series as much as (1) is.

(3)  Someone else (another boarder at Mildred's home, perhaps?) in fact fathered Yancy Sr.  This doesn't explain Fry's brain thingy, though.  If Fry's doing the nasty in the pasty had no effect, then why do the Nibblonians need him to save the universe?  Unless someone comes up with a good reason, (3) must be ruled out.

So after all this typing, I came up with this brilliant conclusion.  Either Enos was Fry's father's father, and then Fry was his own grandpa; or Fry was his own grandfather all along.

Stunning logic, eh?  But at least, I think, it frames the debate.  Enos, then Fry, implies that time can be altered.  (Or, somehow, that it was always supposed to be that way.)  The Y of Fry springing from nowhere leads to -- well, that problem I just said.

Time paradoxes in science fiction?  No way.  Well, yes way.

(4)  Oh, and of course, the logical voice of science makes its voice heard, in terms of chimeras.  A logical scientific answer would be nice, wouldn't it?  Also interesting to hear more of.  Fortunately, my friend Dr. Zoidberg assures me no such things as chimeras exist.  And he's a doctor.  A doctor, honey.


Dai

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #23 on: 07-12-2006 17:27 »
« Last Edit on: 07-12-2006 17:27 »

@TomAllen, that was well worth the read, I mean I didn't learn anything, but it was laced with humour, and I think you were spot-on about the thread name, that would have been one of the greats   laff

Edit: shouldn't this thread be in the Re-Check/Weird Scenes forum?
Shiny

Professor
*
« Reply #24 on: 07-12-2006 22:52 »

No, because it's not about a continuity error, but about an established aspect of the character.  Hence, human resources.


...and "The Y of Fry" is bloody brilliant, Tom.  laff
Wooter

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #25 on: 07-12-2006 23:25 »

You know, I think my Robert A. Heinlein reference explained it fine. Or it would have if anyone else had read the story...

I think he wrote another story where a man went back in time and had sex with himself before he got the sex change operation, and was thus a woman. The resulting offspring was, of course, himself.

Man, Heinlein was a strange fellow...
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #26 on: 07-14-2006 09:30 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by [S][h][i][n][y]:
Xanfor: Yancy Sr. being a chimera doesn't make Fry unable to marry or have children.

Dear Shiny, I can assure you that I am well aware of that. However, conversations drift in such narrowly defined threads, and I was merely setting my place and establishing my demeanor to the newcomers who may have arrived. Of course, I am now ashamed to admit that it took me this long to read your post...  frown

Yo

Crustacean
*
« Reply #27 on: 08-05-2006 17:43 »
« Last Edit on: 08-05-2006 17:43 »

I just don't get why his last name is still Fry, if Enus never got married to Mildred. And even if Fry told Mildred his last name, wouldn't she think it would be strange he had the same last name as Enus. For all we know, Enus could've been stupid enough to forget he already was married to her and she was already pregnant, but didn't know it yet. That would make it so Fry wouldn't be his own Grandpa!
tyraniak

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #28 on: 08-05-2006 18:20 »

Well, I think Fry's supposed to be the grandfather on his mother's side, so Enos's last name would be Fry's mom's maiden name.  Yancy Fry would have the same family tree he's always had and would Marry Mildred's daughter, i. e., Fry's mother and grandaughter
Yo

Crustacean
*
« Reply #29 on: 08-05-2006 18:28 »

Yes, but it clearly says he's his dad's dad.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #30 on: 08-05-2006 19:08 »
« Last Edit on: 08-05-2006 19:08 »

DING-DING-DING!  I just came up with a mad, mad, MAD theory, which assumes Fry's his grandfather on his paternal side.

Fry's Y-chromosone comes from his dad, right?  Which means his X-chromosones come from his mum, and therefore come from 'outside' the paradox.  So half his sperms are 'X's, and half are 'Y's. (hoping I remember correctly that Biology lesson from eleven years ago...)

In 'Roswell' we see Fry outrunning the nuclear blast that kills Enos.  What if the radiation caught up with him and mutated some of those 'X's to 'Y's, not to mention mutating them so he has the brain thing?  He passes the new 'Y' (i.e. a mutated 'X') on to his dad, who in turn passes it on to him.
David A

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #31 on: 08-05-2006 19:52 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Wooter:
You know, I think my Robert A. Heinlein reference explained it fine. Or it would have if anyone else had read the story...

I think he wrote another story where a man went back in time and had sex with himself before he got the sex change operation, and was thus a woman. The resulting offspring was, of course, himself.

Man, Heinlein was a strange fellow...

The story that you're thinking of is "—All You Zombies—".
TomAllen

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #32 on: 08-08-2006 11:17 »

All right, I'm getting wonky here, but X chromosomes don't mutate into Y's.  Smaller mutations in the various chromosomes might well have taken place after the atomic blast.  But X to Y?  Nuh-uh.  That's stretching it even for science fiction.

On the other hand, we are assuming time travel.  So otherwise ridiculous genetic explanations might be less than improbable.

I still think passing the Y of Fry from Fry (or perhaps initially, Enos) to Yancy Sr. to Fry again makes the most sense, given that said propagation produces the "nasty-from-the-pasty" brain wave alteration that allows Fry to be free of the influence of the Giant Brains.

So here's a question for my fellow Shippers.  The Y chromosome that Fry got from Yancy Sr. must (unless Fry's Mom had an affair) have been present in Yancy Jr. too.  So what happened to Yancy Jr.'s bloodline?  Did it die off with his son, Philip J. Fry, the original Martian?  Or did the Yancys (and here's where new stories could arise) continue on into the next millennium?
tyraniak

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #33 on: 08-08-2006 12:06 »

Well, Farnsworth is Fry's multiple great nephew, which means he more than likely comes from Yancy's bloodlines, and there's no indication of Fry having fathered any one in the past
TomAllen

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #34 on: 08-08-2006 12:45 »

Excellent point.  I'd forgotten that.  Even though I just rewatched "A Clone of my Own", where Cubert reminds Fry that his ...-nephew Farnsworth, and therefore Cubert himself, take after Fry.

So Farnsworth is Yancy's ...-grandson.  Farnsworth must share Yancy's (and Fry's) Y chromosome.  (Well, only if Hubert is descended directly through the males of the line over one thousand years.)  This would explain Farnsworth's mix of genius and forgetfulness.

Invader Jenny

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #35 on: 08-08-2006 14:41 »

Not to mention a different last name.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #36 on: 08-08-2006 19:02 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by TomAllen:
All right, I'm getting wonky here, but X chromosomes don't mutate into Y's.  Smaller mutations in the various chromosomes might well have taken place after the atomic blast.  But X to Y?  Nuh-uh.  That's stretching it even for science fiction.

And a time-travelling phone box that's bigger on the inside than the outside isn't?

tyraniak

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #37 on: 08-09-2006 00:14 »

Yeah, witout stretching there'd be no science fiction, just boring science fact
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #38 on: 08-09-2006 13:21 »

(Kills tyraniak)

(Hops in time machine)

(Goes back)

(Kills self)

(Goes back more)

(Kills earlier self to stop later self from killing self before last)

(Self from future arrives)

(Kills me)

(Self from past arrives)

(Three selves all look at each other)

(All give up and go on a road trip to stop themselves from gettting a bad haircut ten years ago)

TomAllen

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #39 on: 08-11-2006 11:16 »

Hey, if I wanted to be a total Futurama dork (oops, too late,) I'd point out that, in theory, time travel shouldn't exist.  Yet in this series, with the appropriate microwave malfunction, and a little assist from a supernova, it does.

Time travel I can understand.  Same with aliens speaking English and the increased speed of light.  But altering the laws of genetics?  Hmmph.  Hardly.  And Cubert is with me on this.

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