Leela's Childhood

[Reply #40 on:]

Well, I can't force you, and I wouldn't bother if I could.  Communication is an equal exchange.

So...anyone else want to talk about Leela's childhood?

Woo!  Top o' the page shimmy!  Dee-de, dee-de-de, deedle dee dee deeee....

[Reply #41 on:]

So....  If the orphanarium is/was really so starved for money, who paid for Leela's Arcturan Kung Fu?

[Reply #42 on:]

Now, that's an interesting question. 

*thinking, thinking....*

It could be that it was an elective offered by the local school (which explains why Fnog had to take her as a student, even if she was a girl); some schools do that. Or perhaps Fnog offered classes to orphans to get a tax break.

Anyone else have an idea?

[Reply #43 on:]

I would go with the idea that it was a course offered in school.  All schools require some sort of PE class, and that may have been Leela's sport of choice.  I have an idea that as good an athelete that she is, she would be the last picked for any group sport.  Things like basketball would require depth perception, so Leela wouldn't be a great player.

Also, it was a great release for all the rage she had built up for being abused by her peers over the years.

So that is Ralph's opinion on how Leela became a ass-kicking machine.

 

[Reply #44 on:]

Shiny applauds Ralph's opinion.  *clapclapclapclapclap!*

Although it occurs to her that kicking and hitting also require some depth perception....  But then, Leela has a little depth perception, through moving her head or eye to triangulate.  And in a fight, you're usually moving a lot.

[Reply #45 on:]

She said she started kung fu in high school, so i always assumed it was her P.E. equivalent. Which would have forced Fnog to take her. Had he been running private lessons he would have had the right to refuse her.

Here's a question for ya, We saw in Leela's Homeworld that her parents left little gifts for her. What do you think Leela thought was going on? Cookies appear from nowhere, a present left in her path. Secret admirer? The sympathetic ghost of an orphan that died of lonliness in Leela's dorm room years before she moved in? She had to have some theory.

[Reply #46 on:]

Good question.  I don't have an immediate theory.  I'll ponder.

Edited to add - perhaps she thought that Mr. Vogel did that every now and then for ALL the orphans, or that he did it for her because the other kids gave her such a hard time.

[Reply #47 on:]

maybe she just thought some one (not neccessarily her parents) was watching out for her and keeping her safe, although she might have thought something different

but, she was young, so she might have just been happy to recieve the gifts, even if she had no idea where they were coming from

[Reply #48 on:]

I don't see anything wrong at all with analyzing and discussing fictional characters, even if it is a cartoon.

Hell, that it *is* a cartoon is part of the reason Futurama and Leela are of so much interest to me - despite the natural status of "extremely light hearted and not at all serious comedy" it picks up just from being a cartoon, it manages to be very deep at times.

Leela is one of the best characters in a cartoon, and easily the best female character, due to her depth.

While it's true that it's not just Leela that has great amounts of depth, this thread is about Leela so I won't focus too much on anyone else.

In most other shows, females tend to all too often fulfill one of two cliche roles. They tend to either be macho Xena Warrior Princess Go-Go-Gadget Feminazism types that destroy everyone with GIRL POWER; or they tend to be weak, indecisive, frail things.

What I like so much about Leela is she is *neither*. She doesn't take crap from people, but she isn't a dominating bitch either, and this is very impressive considering the usual roles females play, especially for a cartoon and *especially* considering she is very athletic and good at fighting. That despite this, she isn't a controlling coniving bitchmongerer...

But not even just that. She isn't just "not a horrible character", she's a great character. Her personality, her history..I'm preaching to the choir here, I know.

And concerning her relationship to Fry and how many would call her a bitch because of how she reacts...I'd like to say I'm usually the first to call out a woman on abusing a man, and label her a controlling evil bitch.

Leela isn't. She's not even excessively violent, despite her skills and that it's considered okay and hilarious for a woman to hurt a man. She's willing to, and tries to, see things from Frys perspective all the time. She isn't cruel to him either...in fact, I can only think of one real moment of cruelty to Fry, that I dislike.

That is, "Time Keeps on Slipping", when Fry shows her that room, and she punches him in the face. I'm just opposed to bringing violence where it isn't needed, and she certainly didn't need to punch him to get across that that was a very lame, Zapp Brannigan-esque move. Words would've done just fine, I think.

The only other thing I see as a flaw in her, concerning Fry, is that she just doesn't seem to appreciate him; as if she takes him for granted. Now that's not to say I think she *abuses* him, because I don't, but I just don't think she fully appreciates what he does for her and how much he cares.

For example, "Love and Rocket". Fry is willing to give his life for her, and even did. Fry gave her his oxygen, with no way to know he'd survive. He was willing to die for her there, truly. He survived only due to luck, through no actions of his own.

Yet, for that, he doesn't get much more than an "aww, that's sweet"?

"Parasites lost" is the other main thing that gets to me, and is in fact what bothers me the most about the way she treats Fry.

That is, Fry *has* her. He finally has her liking, even loving, him - very nearly close to sex, and he gives it up. Why? Because he's honorable, and a good man.

He doesn't want Leela to love a false him; to love the worms. Even when he has what he's dreamed of, he cares so much about Leela actually loving *him*, that he gives it up.

That takes a tremendous amount of dedication and caring, and a fair bit of honor too - for even the most caring person could justify that it's okay to keep the worms because it makes her happy too. But it takes honor to realize how's basically lying, posing as what you aren't, and it's being lied *to*, as well, as said - it wouldn't really be *you* that's loved, but a false image.

Leela doesn't seem to notice this, she just shrugs him off after he's gotten rid of the worms, without a second thought. Even when he *told* her that he did it because he wanted her to really love him, she still just kicks him out like trash.

But moments like those are what gives Futurama the depth it has. As well, no flat and shallow character could do the things Leela does, much less have me *care*.

I would not care about the Fry/Leela thing if I did not find them both to be very interesting and deep. It takes more than just humor for that - Family Guy is hilarious, but it's very difficult for me to find a single character I actually care about.

I'm sure I've gone off topic somewhere, or that I'm about to drift off topic, so I'll just end this here. I feel I've said enough.

[Reply #49 on:]

 

Originally posted by Aristobulus:
Even when he *told* her that he did it because he wanted her to really love him, she still just kicks him out like trash.
 

That's not exactly what happened. Though a lot of people see it that way, i'm not sure why. She kicked him out for talking about Amy. She seemed unsure of what to do until he mentioned Amy's name. That's when her facial expression changed and that's when she tossed him out.

[Reply #50 on:]

 

Originally posted by Venus:
 That's not exactly what happened. Though a lot of people see it that way, i'm not sure why. She kicked him out for talking about Amy. She seemed unsure of what to do until he mentioned Amy's name. That's when her facial expression changed and that's when she tossed him out.

If that is true, then it's *incredibly* petty and shallow of her.

For one, she's still completely overlooking what he'd just done for her.

For two, he's not even mentioning her in a "those days rocked why did I break up with her" kind of way, he only mentioned her as support that his backrub was good.

And even *if* there a tone of remorse in his voice, it doesn't change that Leela should know that Fry wouldn't do half the stuff he does for her, for Amy. Fry isn't trying to get together with Amy again, and he broke up with her a long time ago. Most of all, he never says he loves Amy. That should've meant something to Leela, that she not get angry at him just because he mentioned Amy.

[Reply #51 on:]

Whether it's petty or not mentioning an ex girlfriend is a major turn-off. The next time you're in a woman's bedroom mention your ex and what you used to do for her and see what kinda reaction you get. Ten-to-one you won't be getting lucky that night.

[Reply #52 on:]

True, but how often is it that the woman you're with is one whose life you've saved before, and who you've come close to dying for?

Among other things, that is. And further, this was *Fry*. It's obvious he didn't mean any harm by it.

[Reply #53 on:]

He hadn't saved, or nearly died for her yet. Parasite's Lost was the first episode where he actually began to pursue her. The rescuing and nearly dieing for stuff didn't happen till later.

[Reply #54 on:]

Hmm, really? I'm getting my episodes mixed up, then.

Happens when you watch a show out of order.

I'll concede the point, then.

And besides, there's no way to know that Leela didn't think back on it later and realize what Fry had to feel, to cleanse the worms.

I mean, as shown in the Sting, she kept things from him even during times when it seemed like she hated him, so there's no telling what she thought behind closed doors.

[Reply #55 on:]

"Times when it seemed like she hated him?!"  From The Sting?!  I'm totally not getting this sentence...

But to go on about Parasites Lost a little...remember, from Leela's POV, the worms could have just made Fry more charming, more able to "fake being in love" (as she saw him teaching Dr. Zoidberg before).  I could say more, even, but instead I'll just make a shameless plug for my story, The Other Side of Parasites, where I explored these very issues.  (It's the sixth post from the bottom, on page 1 of the thread; if you like you can read the other stories, too, I won't mind.  )

And as for the other eps you mentioned, Mssr. Aristobulus (cool name, btw), let me just say that Fry totally deserved that punch in the eye.  The "time shelter" was more than just a lame come-on, it was actively offensive.  The "sexy poster" Fry hung there had the silhouettes of two women kissing; he'd obviously decorated it for himself, not for her.  Fry might as well have said "I'd like you to be a sex toy and help me fulfill my own adolescent fantasies, and oh yeah, I'm going to sell you on the idea by pretending to do something sweet and caring for you."

In Fry's defense, he's clueless enough that he might not have realized how degrading that came across as, but I'd also say he's lucky she ever spoke to him again.  To me, that incident represents the one time when Fry seemed cruel to her, so I consider Leela's response just tit for tat (no pun intended).

[Reply #56 on:]

 

Originally posted by Shiny:
"Times when it seemed like she hated him?!"  From The Sting?!  I'm totally not getting this sentence...

He's talking about that box of momentos she had under her bed. She had stuff in there from season one which was the season they were often getting on each other's nerves.

[Reply #57 on:]

As Venus said, Shiny, I'm talking about the box of momentos.

As for that room in Time Keeps on Slipping..I never said Leela was fully justified in getting angry. I mean, I *did* call it a Zapp Brannigan-esque move. That was totally uncharacteristic of Fry, if you ask me.

It was giving her false hopes and false romances, toying with the idea that he'd found a way to save her life, basically. A very lame move, indeed.

However, maybe it's just my personality, but I never can quite justify violence. I just believe that using violence, when you haven't been attacked first, is just a sign of immaturity. It shows that you don't know how else to deal, so you simply lash out with your fists. And I hold this true for *both* males and females.

If she'd have yelled at him and not spoken to him for months, I'd call that completely justified. About the only thing Fry deserves mercy for doing that, is he's likely *just that clueless*, he really didn't expect it to offend her and he didn't try to offend her.

Further, this is Fry. I think words and overall anger from Leela would've been just as effective; probably even moreso, since he does really care about Leela, he'd reflect more on how what he did was wrong if she yelled at him and refused to speak to him than just simply flying off the handle and punching him in the face.

I mean, while that was a Zapp-esque move, Fry isn[t Zapp. Words have no meaning to Zapp, hell, even violence means little to Zapp. However, Zapp *knows* what he does is more than a little annoying to Leela, and he *knows* she hates him. Further, Zapp commonly crosses the line, into things that are even liable of breaking the law, and stalking. Such as that time in "Kif Gets Knocked Up a Notch" where Zapp sneaks into her room and into her bed, waiting for her to wake up. Leela is *forced* to hurt him, because he certainly wouldn't stop if she didn't. He doesn't really stop even when she does, but hurting him does generally give her a temporary reprieve from him, if for no other reason than he's in too much pain to continue.

But again, Fry isn't Zapp. Words would've been fully effective. It wasn't necessary, it was over the top.

Bottom line is I just have trouble justifying the use of violence in most cases.

(By the way, thanks for the compliment on my name. I chose the name based on a wizard in a book...but as it turns out 'Aristobulus' was also a common Roman name, too. I think there's even a roman caesar named 'Aristobulus')

[Reply #58 on:]

Okay, now I get it.  You meant "kept things from him" in the sense of "saving mementos."  I had originally read it as "keeping secrets from him."  Confusion abated.

(Although I would never have categorized Leela as "hating" Fry, even in season one.  She got super-pissed at him in My 3 Suns, sure, but it was clearly because she was worried about his welfare. )

And I agree, Leela hitting Fry is a sign of immaturity.  I love Leela because she is immature at times, and flawed and everything - in that, I think we all agree.  Though I don't think Leela had any illusions, even for a moment, that Fry had successfully built a time-proof shelter; I think she expected him to have, oh, I don't know, lined the closet with clocks facing outward or something - you know, some totally ineffective bit of Fry-logic, but sincerely meant. 

I'm just saying that Fry provoked a response born from immaturity, through his own incredibly immature gesture.  And since I  think that many verbal blows are as damaging, or more so, as physical ones, I don't necessarily see physical violence as being any more beyond the pale than some verbal "slaps in the face" are.  In fact, now that I think about it, it was probably the kindest response she could have given that would nevertheless get across a message of "NEVER do this again.  No joke."  Words sufficient for the task would have also done Fry's ego long-term damage and might have strained their relationship; a black eye is a very effective deterrent without destroying their friendship. 

(Also, Leela might have realized that a timeslip could occur at any moment, causing them to forget anything the other said, but that a bruise would make a...lasting impression.  )

It's like, I was watching a cop show, and my favorite character carelessly insulted his partner's new fiance.  I said to the screen, "Hit him," just before his partner attempted to do just that.  Whether it was said by my favorite guy or not, some remarks just deserve a poke in the eye, because even an idiot (or in this case, an impulsive guy with foot-in-mouth disease) should know better.

So while in general I agree that violence is rarely justified except in response to other violence, these two incidents do cross into my own area of "allowable violence."

(And re: the name Aristobulus...I had coincidentally "invented" the same name as a good "wizard name" several years ago.  I'm actually relieved to find out it's a legit Roman name, as that means I can still use it, or a variation on it, in the future without looking like a plagiarist toward you. Swish!)

[Reply #59 on:]

me 2

[Reply #60 on:]

 

Originally posted by Shiny:
Okay, now I get it.  You meant "kept things from him" in the sense of "saving mementos."  I had originally read it as "keeping secrets from him."  Confusion abated.

(Although I would never have categorized Leela as "hating" Fry, even in season one.  She got super-pissed at him in My 3 Suns, sure, but it was clearly because she was worried about his welfare. )

And I agree, Leela hitting Fry is a sign of immaturity.  I love Leela because she is immature at times, and flawed and everything - in that, I think we all agree.  Though I don't think Leela had any illusions, even for a moment, that Fry had successfully built a time-proof shelter; I think she expected him to have, oh, I don't know, lined the closet with clocks facing outward or something - you know, some totally ineffective bit of Fry-logic, but sincerely meant. 

I'm just saying that Fry provoked a response born from immaturity, through his own incredibly immature gesture.  And since I  think that many verbal blows are as damaging, or more so, as physical ones, I don't necessarily see physical violence as being any more beyond the pale than some verbal "slaps in the face" are.  In fact, now that I think about it, it was probably the kindest response she could have given that would nevertheless get across a message of "NEVER do this again.  No joke."  Words sufficient for the task would have also done Fry's ego long-term damage and might have strained their relationship; a black eye is a very effective deterrent without destroying their friendship. 

(Also, Leela might have realized that a timeslip could occur at any moment, causing them to forget anything the other said, but that a bruise would make a...lasting impression.    )

It's like, I was watching a cop show, and my favorite character carelessly insulted his partner's new fiance.  I said to the screen, "Hit him," just before his partner attempted to do just that.  Whether it was said by my favorite guy or not, some remarks just deserve a poke in the eye, because even an idiot (or in this case, an impulsive guy with foot-in-mouth disease) should know better.

So while in general I agree that violence is rarely justified except in response to other violence, these two incidents do cross into my own area of "allowable violence."

(And re: the name Aristobulus...I had coincidentally "invented" the same name as a good "wizard name" several years ago.  I'm actually relieved to find out it's a legit Roman name, as that means I can still use it, or a variation on it, in the future without looking like a plagiarist toward you. Swish!)

After thinking about it, I can see where you're coming from.

We just have a difference in our opinion of violence. It's reasonable too, because broken bones will heal, but words will last a long time...

So if you approach it from that sense, then Leela was being *merciful* by just hitting him for that. And that even ties in to what I said earlier...that is, that words would've been more effective and had him really thinking about it and feeling guilty.

And wouldn't it be harder for Fry to go through a long period of "Oh god what I did to Leela was awful why did I do that I'm horrible" guilt, than just a few minutes of pain?

As well, the bruise *does* send an effective message of "Don't do this again.", *and*, as you pointed out and I hadn't realized, the time slips made trying to talk completely ineffective sometimes.

My main problem with physical violence is that it's so often used by abusive, controlling characters, that I, by habit, link every act of unprovoked violence to an abusive and controlling action - even when there are cases where it may not be.

As well, it's true that Leela is flawed, and that's part of what makes her great. However, knowing this doesn't mean I can't discuss her flaws, right?

All of this said, though, I must point out that the only part of your post I heavily disagree with and just can't understand is

 

"It's like, I was watching a cop show, and my favorite character carelessly insulted his partner's new fiance.  I said to the screen, "Hit him," just before his partner attempted to do just that.  Whether it was said by my favorite guy or not, some remarks just deserve a poke in the eye, because even an idiot (or in this case, an impulsive guy with foot-in-mouth disease) should know better."

This is where we have real conflicting beliefs. Think about what you're saying when you say "some remarks just deserve pain", because the person "should know better". Who's the judge of that? By that logic you can go around just randomly punching people in the gut for the slightest thing uttered you don't like, because they should know better.

Thing is, when you just fly off the handle and hit people, it really comes across as immature and overly violent, controlling, and abusive.

If you put your anger into words, you're much more likely to actually reach a solution, too, as that way the other person can reflect on how what they did was wrong, rather than thinking about how they've been wronged by being hurt. Afterall, if the only pain they are feeling is guilt, how could they be mad at and call the other person wrong? Whereas if there's physical pain there, as from a punch or a slap, there's ammo there to back up the 'I've been wronged' statement.

[Reply #61 on:]

I understand where you're coming from, too.  Would it help if I said that the partner was not an abusing, controlling person, that the two characters were friends (and equally matched in a fight), and the character who uttered the insult did know better? 

(For those of you burning with curiosity, the show was Homicide: Life on the Streets, my favorite character was Mike Kellerman, and it was the episode where his partner Meldrick Lewis sprang the news on him that he was getting married that very day, even though he hadn't so much as told anyone he even had a girlfriend (he didn't want to "jinx" it).  At that point, Mike half-believed that Meldrick was making the whole thing up as a joke, and was possibly trying to see if Meldrick would boil over, to test if he was telling the truth or not. Never the less, you just don't suggest your partner picked up his fiance from a strip club, even if you're not sure she's real).

You see, in this case there wasn't an issue of reaching a solution - one character was just being a bit of an ass to provoke a response.  When you set out to poke a lion, don't complain if you get scratched.  That's why I thought my favorite character deserved a poke in the eye.  It was a very clear-cut case.

Another clear-cut case (and the only other time I actually recall saying "Hit him!" to the screen) was during an old science fiction show (Okay, it was Space:1999, so sue me!). The crew runs into a spaceship and their "alien crew member" freaks out - a usually brave and resourceful woman  is suddenly almost gibbering in terror.  It was an unexpected reaction that shocked the heck out of me and had me in almost desperate sympathy with her (I already liked her fine, but suddenly I was sick with protective fear for her).  Turns out the other species likes to harvest brains from her species for transplant. 

So, the bad guys demand they turn her over, they refuse, and the bads commence with bombing our heroes' base.  As the explosions cause havoc and it begins to look like they're all doomed, some random person says "Commander, let's give her to them." (Not even "we're all gonna die, we might have to consider giving her to them;" just "let's give her to them." ) He didn't sound terrified when he said it, either.  He was just kind of like,"what are we risking ourselves for her for?" (She'd only joined the crew that season).

He's standing right in front of her, and also right in front of her hot-headed love interest guy, when he says it.  Now, I ask you: is ANYONE so stupid as to not know that's a cruel and hideously insensitive thing to say, and that her boyfriend is going to slug you for it?

So I'm not as bloodthirsty as I seem.  That's only twice - three times with Fry's time closet - I recall actually wanting to see a character hit for just saying something, in all my years of TV-watching.  Each case was extreme in some way; I don't, as a rule, think violence is an answer, I just do allow that SOME severe situations make it justified.

[Reply #62 on:]

I must say, I gain more respect for you with each passing post.

This is the first time I'd mentally pegged someone as prone to double standards, malicious and quick to want to see a guy hurt for no reason;..only to have been proven so miserably wrong, and in the next post, too. Well done.

Both of those I can very well see where violence overrides words, especially the second. My problem has always been with violence being used when words would not only work, but work *better*, and it's just being used because one is just too quick to anger.

Especially that second, man. That *might* be an understandable statement, if you're scared out of your freaking mind and just desperate to live, but as you describe it, it wasn't really that. Just a "psh, this isn't worth the effort just give her up so I can go to sleep" kind of thing. You *couldn't* talk to that kind of person, and as in Futurama, it isn't exactly the best time or place for words either, I gather.

As for the first, I say it depends on how well they know eachother, and if it was meant as a joke or not. I mean, if you're close to someone, you shouldn't be getting that offended by joking comments.

But if they were just that, partners, acquantices, then it was uncalled for. Or if they just weren't the joking type. Basically I only see that attempted hit as uncalled for if they knew eachother well, and it was an obvious joke not meant to offend. Which, if they know eachother well, it *would* be obvious.

[Reply #63 on:]

what was this topic about again????

[Reply #64 on:]

Don't get your panties in a twist, we're just working out a side issue.  It'll be over soon.

Aristobulus: Well, it was a joke, but it was also meant to offend (to see if the fiance in question was real or made-up).  As I said before, my fave character was a bit hotheaded and frequently put his foot in his mouth.  So I maintain he deserved to get hit (he didn't actually get hit, btw, others interrupted them, but if it had connected, I wouldn't have felt too bad for him).

Sooo...to get back to the topic  , recall that Leela's childhood involved things like the blind kid whose nose she'd broken "like ten times" for making fun of her eye.  So she grew up with repeated situations in which people were trying to hurt her, wouldn't care if she explained it, and even minor violence didn't make an impression.  Personally, I think she's pretty virtuous for not taking that next step into major violence (which I would consider understandable but NOT justifiable, if I might make that distinction).  The fact that Leela chooses to do the right thing on the large issues, even in situations in which it hurts her to do, so makes her a hero.  I forgive her for her few lapses in the small issues where the matter is less well defined.

[Reply #65 on:]

Of course, by not slipping down that slope ,(however understandable given her childhood) she becomes unique from all the other cliche'd female leads out there. This is why Leela is one of my favorite characters.

[Reply #66 on:]

Leela is easily my favourite character as well, both male and female. That is due to her good looks (the eye actually enhances that), her intelligence and her deep humanity. Also she is about the only character who uses her brain once in a while, and she stands for what she believes. Wish I had a friend or even a wife like her... I'd  gladly accept the eye  .

Back to Leelas childhood: the most of it has already been said. She was abandoned to give her a "real" life on the surface, which surely was better than anything her parents could have offered her - despite everything she had to suffer. Obviously her bad childhood did not leave her bitter, but let her grow to be able to stand on her own feet, although she still craved for a family. Well, now she has her parents back, and that should make up for a few things - it might even enhance her character further, as she is no longer consumed by bitternes and doubt about her origins.