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Author Topic: Stupid nitpick in "Luck of the Fryish"  (Read 538 times)
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nichie

Crustacean
*
« on: 10-04-2003 19:14 »

Yeah-- this really doesn't matter at all. But I just thought of something that doesn't make sense.

Fry goes back to Old New York to get his clover back... and his basement just happens to look exactly the same, despite the fact that Old New York wasn't abandoned until many years later (I can't remember the exact year, though.) Are we really supposed to believe the basement stayed intact that long? Even ignoring the fact that a thousand years would produce a TON of decay, I am sure other families must have lived in the house after Fry's family, unless Yancy Jr. lived in the same house and Old New York was destroyed soon afterwards, but I find that hard to believe. I am pretty sure the alien invasion was at least in 22-something, long after Yancy Jr. and his son would be dead.

Again, it's not really important and doesn't cause any serious plot errors, but it was something I was wondering about. I know, I know, "it's a cartoon!"
Shadowstar

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #1 on: 10-04-2003 19:21 »

Wizards changed it back to its original glory.
aslate

Space Pope
****
« Reply #2 on: 10-04-2003 19:23 »

Why couldn't it have just been inherited over and over?
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #3 on: 10-04-2003 19:35 »

We really don't know when the alien invasions ahppened. For all we know (and could deduce from SP3K) it happened a couple of years after the pilot. Maybe in 2012 in that terrible war Conan O'brien lost his legs in.

Old New York is shielded from rain, wind and sunlight by New New York, the temperature and humidity is probably pretty consistent too. Since most decay is caused by outside sources (such as the above mentioned) it's pretty believeable that the Fry household doesn't look any more ravaged than it is.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #4 on: 10-04-2003 19:56 »

Plus his basement was a bomb shelter for the nuclear war that his father proclamated would occur....
nichie

Crustacean
*
« Reply #5 on: 10-04-2003 20:18 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by winna:
Plus his basement was a bomb shelter for the nuclear war that his father proclamated would occur....

Ahh, good point. Forgot about that.

My nitpick isn't so much with the lack of decay, though, as it is with the fact that the record vault stayed in the same place the whole time, but I suppose the house could have been inherited over and over with the record vault left intact through respect for the missing relative.
Evil Fox Exec

Bending Unit
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« Reply #6 on: 10-05-2003 16:39 »

Come to think of it, your nitpick makes perfect sense.  After all, how many buildings from the year 1003 are perfectly intact today?
nichie

Crustacean
*
« Reply #7 on: 10-05-2003 17:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec:
Come to think of it, your nitpick makes perfect sense.  After all, how many buildings from the year 1003 are perfectly intact today?

Yeah... I suppose it being underneath New New York helped it from decaying, but there was still a period when it wasn't. The fact that the wood staircase leading down into Fry's basement was perfectly intact bothered me... wood rots pretty easily!

You can go to some places (in particular I am thinking of Bandelier National Monument, in northern NM) where there are remnants of houses built by tribes or native peoples and they're practically nothing. I think Bandelier was abandoned in the 1500s, and it was built out of stone, but all it is now is a few low stone walls and I belive much of it has been restored. Things just don't stick around that long, even when they're sheltered by a cliff overhang (as at Bandelier) or eventually covered over by another city.

Heh... it doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the show, though. I think I am off to go draw some pictures of Fry and study for an upcoming test.
MrB

Bending Unit
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« Reply #8 on: 10-05-2003 17:19 »

How many cities do we abandon and build new cities on top of them?
Beamer

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #9 on: 10-05-2003 22:37 »

Then again, why is Old New York underground? I thought aliens destroyed it? And whatever happened to that roman-type city that got built after it?!

Anyway, I think it's safe to say that it remained in tact because it was a bomb shelter of sorts. The record vault was Fry's, and since he disappeared soon after that, it didn't get touched again until after Yancy found the clover. Remember, his parents said they didn't move any of his things ("Your brother may be missing but his crap sure isn't!" ).

Also, I don't think anyone else inherited the house after his parents. I mean, it was still in just as bad a wreck underground as it was above ground, so it's obvious that nobody fixed it up. I mean, just look at it - would YOU want to live in it? Because of this, it can be reasonable to assume that his parents were the last people to live in the house - after all, they were still living in it when Yancy got married. As said before, they didn't move any of Fry's stuff either, probably out of grief (or just plain laziness in their case).

See, looking at these things - it is quite possible. Well, in cartoon logic anyway.
Lionel Hutz Esq

Bending Unit
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« Reply #10 on: 10-06-2003 02:15 »

Based on most of what we have seen, the entombment of Old New York happened within a few years of Fry leaving.  This may or may not be related to the first alien invasion.

There are a few towns that have actual underground cities.  Locally (to me), Seattle has a famous undergound (featured in a Scooby Doo, no less), which came into being after the great Seattle fire of the 1890s or so.  They raised the street level afterwards for various reasons, and there are old store fronts and streets underneath.  Given the wetness of our climate, it has survived very well.  Secondly, I believe Port Angeles, Washington, has an underground, caused by raising street level (I forget the reason).  I'm sure there are other cities that are similar.
JDHannan

Bending Unit
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« Reply #11 on: 10-06-2003 10:10 »

i think that our building materials and standards today are a little better than they were in 1003
or 1903 for that matter
Evil Fox Exec

Bending Unit
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« Reply #12 on: 10-06-2003 15:58 »

Not really.  The reason why these cathedrals and castles in Europe build in the 1400's survive today in good condition is because the building material was sturdier then.  From what I've seen, the buildings were made of stone, not brick or wood like buildings are today.  So no, our building material today wouldn't allow buildings to last 1,000 years.  Remember, 1,000 years is a VERY long time.

In additional, the fact that the buildings were under New York would seem to me to make them decay faster, if anything.  It's quite damp underground, which makes a perfect breeding ground for bacteria.  And bacteria certainly help in the process of decaying.  In addition, the buildings are not constantly cleaned and kept up to prevent damage to them.  The old buildings I menntioned that are in Europe need constant maintanance to keep them in good condition.  I guess there is no good answer to this.  Here comes the part where you have to say it's just a cartoon.
Lionel Hutz Esq

Bending Unit
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« Reply #13 on: 10-07-2003 02:33 »

Smithsonian magizine, back in the mid 80's, if I remember right, ran an article where they speculated what would happen to the Gateway Arch (St. Louis), The World Trade Center, and Grand Coulee Dam (Washington) if man just walked away.  The Trade Center would probably survive 200-500 years as is (although the glass would probably blow out early on, which would allow it to survive wind storms better), but they figured the undergound vault that protected its base from water would give in and then the base would corrode eventually and they would shear off.  The Arch would last just fine until it got hit head on by a tornado, but they figured something like 800 years, with the legs free standing over a thousand easily.  Gran Coulee would keep producing electricity on its own for 3.5 years (the generators are self lubricating, but would run out or reserves at that time, everything else would just run until the generators froze).  eventually it would silt up, but there was no reason to believe it wouldn't be around for several thousand years.

Most modern buildings are extremely strong.  Sure, Cathedrals are too, but, assuming man just walks away, stone or metal buildings will last.  Wood, of course doesn't, but that is true in ancient and modern times.  But, if kept free of oxgen, or moisture and insects, it will last.
Evil Fox Exec

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #14 on: 10-07-2003 11:14 »

Heh, that was interesting.  So there is a possibility that the buildings under New New York would last a thousand years, but very doubtful that they would be in such a good condition as shown in the show.
MrBurns

Bending Unit
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« Reply #15 on: 10-07-2003 17:45 »

Fry's old house? Good condition? Bruahaharrr!  big grin
Well ok, its condition hasn't got worse at least.  smile
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #16 on: 10-08-2003 02:32 »

I'd like to point out that Fry's house could have been restored in the memory of Fry's descendant who holds his name, Phillip. After all, his grave is still in orbiting meadows cementary, and well preserved. Also, from what can be deduced, the first alien invasion happened after Yancy's son died or way before that, which makes no sense since the world was almost destroyed. NNYC is built over old new york, but why wouldn't they savage and scrap anything useful or valuable? also, it should be meters above, but we see it's much more high than that, why?
MrBurns

Bending Unit
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« Reply #17 on: 10-08-2003 10:21 »

That NNY being built over ONY thing doesn't make any sense at all. Also, NNY would just fall down as there are hardly any pillars to carry the weight. Anyway, the idea is just great and damn funny!  big grin
But I don't think the house has been restored, since nobody ever goes down to ONY. Except for the mutants maybe.  big grin
Ricky

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #18 on: 10-08-2003 11:01 »

Remember that Cyborgs enslaved humanity in the 21st century. Maybe they kept total control over N.Y. until the alien invasion.
That can explain why Fry's parents/family abandoned the house without anybody else moving in.
MrBurns

Bending Unit
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« Reply #19 on: 10-08-2003 11:15 »

Yeah... that rings a bell!
Pikka Bird

Space Pope
****
« Reply #20 on: 10-09-2003 10:46 »

One more thing. Along with the midieval-styled civilization there were trees... They might take a while to grow that big (Fry is pretty high above ground floor). And for all that time, I doubt ONY had the ceiling we see in Futurama. Therefore, it will have to have been subject to nature in all its furious glory and as a result, the decay should be quite a lot more significant. And why are there NO ruins of the castles and other buildings? And one more thing. Why did the next civilization build their stuff directly on top of ancient ruins? Weird.
Lionel Hutz Esq

Bending Unit
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« Reply #21 on: 10-11-2003 06:41 »
« Last Edit on: 10-11-2003 06:41 »

There is no basis for this in the show, so just take it for what it is, me BSing:

Sometime in the near future, for what ever reason (urban renewal, raising the city against the rising seas caused by global warming and all those ice cubes in the ocean, rebuilding after a minor alien invasion, the cyborg years), sections of Old New York are plowed under.

But, you can't just knock down the buildings, There are historic buildings, people don't want to sell and move, you don't have enough money to buy everyone out.  So, instead, you just build a vault over it and build ontop.  Needless to say, those now in the tomb move out pretty quick, and people just forget about it over the years.  How much do you care about the sewer system under your city?  It is just this dark, old place, and it passes from memory.

However, when it was vaulted over, because of historical designations, etc., it was vaulted over in such a way so as to preserve it.  The whole idea was to keep it as it was when vaulted.

So, when we see the first alien invasion, what you are seeing is the city on top of old New York being destroyed, lie fallow, and rebuilt.
MrBurns

Bending Unit
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« Reply #22 on: 10-11-2003 07:49 »

It can't be the city on top of ONY because the houses and skyscrapers that are destroyed are already there in 1999, when Fry falls into the freezer.
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #23 on: 10-11-2003 07:53 »

Hey that's another thing that bothered me. Doesn't that mean that Fry shouldn't wake up on the surface since he's on the old applied cryogenics lab? why wasn't that building buried under NNYC?
Lionel Hutz Esq

Bending Unit
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« Reply #24 on: 10-11-2003 12:33 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by MrBurns:
It can't be the city on top of ONY because the houses and skyscrapers that are destroyed are already there in 1999, when Fry falls into the freezer.

Again, not every section of Old New York got covered, just certain sections.  The section where Ap. Cryo. is located  probably Manhatan) never was entombed, the section where Fry lives (probably the Bronx), was.   

The harder question for me is how they got everything to level out.  New York is not San Francisco or Rome, there are no hills to fill in from.  Either they raised everything else up, or they burried and covered up the old stuff. 

I hate to say it, but there is a very good chance a wizard was involved.

What makes a good man go neutral?  Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?[/b]
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #25 on: 10-11-2003 13:06 »

The buildings who remained standing was probably covered too, and a new ground floor made. Imagine a 50 story building standing. They raise the ground about 15-20 floors and place the new ground floor at the old 17th floor, and just seal off anything below that. Smaller buildings and destroyed areas was just covered.

And this is taken from AstroZombie's "Precious Memories".

 
Quote
Originally posted by Luis:
Hey that's another thing that bothered me. Doesn't that mean that Fry shouldn't wake up on the surface since he's on the old applied cryogenics lab? why wasn't that building buried under NNYC?

Applied Cryogenics was located on one of the top floors of the building. The ground looks to be raised about 15-20 floors. Since the building survived the aline invasions and the last 1000 years pretty much intact (I suspect Nibblonian interference), people decided to use it.

The Empire State Building is still in use by the year 3000 as well. It's the one Bender is impaled on in AOI I. In TDESS we can see two buildings that looks eaxctly like the World Trade Center. The Chrysler Building was destroyed though.

But that's about the only present day buildings I recognised.
aslate

Space Pope
****
« Reply #26 on: 10-11-2003 17:37 »

ONY could have been covered to protect it from alien invasion etc. pretty early on, and then built ontop of as it's easier then destroying what's underneath and rebuilding.

It could be supported by any form of futuristic technology to allow the massive weight being supported with very few supports.
Asylum-Fry

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #27 on: 10-11-2003 17:54 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by aslate:
It could be supported by any form of futuristic technology to allow the massive weight being supported with very few supports.

Remember when Fry was weight-lifting in WMIBACIL, but Leela turned the gravity on? It could work something like that (the weight on zero-g), since Fry was evidently not floating in the air.

Just a thought...



PEEL's Postwhore
If love is blind, I need a cane. Hearts to my special Mexican guy!
Luis

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #28 on: 10-11-2003 19:41 »

It could be that the beams that support NNY are made out of super tensile solids or hiper dense materials. Maybe neutron girders... Anyway, some people here seem to think ONY was buried. It isn't and never was, which still makes me think why didn't they loot the place before leaving it.
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #29 on: 10-12-2003 03:24 »

Considering how rich and famous the second Philip J. Fry became, the house may have been preserved as a historical landmark.    cool
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