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Author Topic: Why do future weapons suck?  (Read 487 times)
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Luis

Bending Unit
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« on: 10-03-2003 01:53 »

Hey, i've always wondered, if it's the future, how come weapons tech has dated logic? The only "good" future weapon i ever saw on the show was the laser pistol. Modern automatic rifles seem better than DOOP rifles, the PE ship still fires conventional explosive warhead torpedoes, conventional missiles, or lasers. It's the future so shouldn't we see some new and surprising weapons? of course the DOOP rifles were a joke, but torpedoes on a space ship that can move the universe? haven't these people heard of particle accelerators, sonic oscilators or plasma weapons? and also, how come there are no old weapons? we have spears from more than 3000 years ago, shouldn't the NNYC museums have present day guns? and if they do, how come they don't notice that they are better than those sucky laser guns?
Asylum-Fry

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #1 on: 10-03-2003 01:57 »

Well... uh... maybe such futuristic weapons as you are speaking of are impossible to make/too hard to make/unnecessary for futuristic lifestyles/were destroyed by Jesus and his wizard minions in his second coming, along with the videotapes.

And you are forgetting all that cool stuff in the Suicide Booth, those were great weapons.
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #2 on: 10-03-2003 02:17 »

Great to see someone checked the topic and posted, thanks Asylum-Fry. Particle accelerators are actually easy to make, we even have some since the eighties if i recall correctly (they're not used as weapons because there's no proper energy source to make them efficient), and plasma is a product of nuclear fusion, a tech that should already be dated and thereby cheap to produce in the future (which should also solve the energy problem with particle accelerators). And i didn't get the point in "unnecesary for futuristic lifestyles", care to clarify please? and i dunno about Jesus second coming, it didn't destroy many things that should have been destroyed.

"And you are forgetting all that cool stuff in the Suicide Booth, those were great weapons"

They were actually simplistic from my POV, but that's a good point. Why does a suicide booth have better weapons (which aren't necesary since it's a SUICIDE booth, there's no struggle) than the cops or soldiers?

Beamer

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #3 on: 10-03-2003 02:22 »

We hardly ever get to see the effect the weapons in Futurama have anyway. They may be much more deadly than they come across.
Asylum-Fry

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #4 on: 10-03-2003 02:31 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 02:31 »

What seems harmless to humans could be deadly to other aliens, really, you saw how those DOOP rifles blasted huge holes in the Balls!

"Unnecessary for futuristic lifestyle": What may seem like a need today could have been solved by then. They don't reveal more than they have to on Futurama, most is left to the imagination. Some weapons may not be used because there IS something better, rendering it obsolete or useless.

I don't make any sense, do I?

EDIT: I think you explained a full counter-version of the above on the 'Bus' thread...
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #5 on: 10-03-2003 02:40 »

Nope, you do make sense to me. You mean that nuclear fusion is probably obsolete by then (for example), and in fact, it is since the PE ship uses dark matter as fuel for the reactor. And if you recall, yep, they did damage the balls, but standard issue infantry weapons need to be all-round effective against anything but heavy armor, since you never know what kind of enemy you're gonna face on a battlefield. And Beamer, i disagree, we saw in various episodes the damage lasers cause (Brannigan begin again comes to my mind), and in Godfellas, we saw the effect the spaceships torpedoes have, not to mention war is the h word. Also, i didn't notice it until now, but lasers are bulky and seem heavy, at least the laser pistol seems to be more bulky than a desert eagle (which is THE bulky weapon of today, i'm talking about the golden pistols that Demi Moore used on Charlie's angels).
Beamer

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #6 on: 10-03-2003 02:49 »

By "We hardly ever get to see the effect the weapons in Futurama have anyway," I mean the range of effects. Let's face it, they probably have more features than we get to see - and as Asylum-Fry said, the effects may vary depending on the target. We have seen many of the effects that the weapons in Futurama have had on their targets, and the same weapons do seem to do different things depending on what they're shot at. I'm just saying that there's probably a wider range of possibilities with the weapons in Futurama than we get to see. As Asylum-Fry said, "They don't reveal more than they have to on Futurama, most is left to the imagination."
Asylum-Fry

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #7 on: 10-03-2003 02:53 »

  big grin  I made sense after all!!!   big grin

Okay, sorry about that. Well, there is also the cost of good weapons to keep in mind. Because Futurama doesn't let you on to more than you need to know, you can't be sure about currency and universal exchange. Some other planet could have an amazing weapon that's too expensive even for Mom to buy!

Also, we haven't seen Farnsworth's many doomsday devices in action (except for the one in Time Keeps On Slippin', that was a spectacular implosion, it was). Are those considered weapons, or just the guns and such?
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #8 on: 10-03-2003 03:02 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 03:02 »

Anything anyone considers a weapon (save ridiculous toilet humor) is valid and open to discussion. Go ahead and say what's on your mind. And yeah, it's possible (and likely) that good weapons are too expensive for the prof to buy, thanks for pointing that out. But that still leaves me wondering why they don't know or use today's weapon tech. It might be obsolete, but a shotgun would probably leave the same damage on those balls than the DOOP rifle did, and some of today's shotguns are automatic so they're better than the rifle. And Beamer, you also have a good point there, i never saw lasers do other things than kill or stun, but since the rules of physics are the same, all lasers do pretty much the same kind of damage to any target because their mechanisms are the same.

(And a little off-topic : AF, check the FFandom message board and the about writing fics thread please.)
Asylum-Fry

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #9 on: 10-03-2003 03:07 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 03:07 »

I was never a real technical person, so I don't know how guns work. I can't be bothered to, either, since I am a real 'arts and language' person. At any rate, we also forget that since there may have been atmospheric changes between 2000 and 3000, the effects of our weapons may have changed. Too much greenhouse gasses and pollution could somehow mysteriously gum up the works of shotguns. Other planet atmospheres, like Mars, may get too much dust/water/chemicals/other things into the gun and screw it up.

Again, I'm not big on the inner workings of guns, I don't know if what I said is true.

EDIT: I did, and I'll copy your fics tomorrow afternoon to the site.
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #10 on: 10-03-2003 03:18 »

Thanks for the support AF. I do know how guns work, i own one and like them in general, and suffice to say this : if you can breathe, a firearm can work, it's that simple. I could explain the way firearms work, but that could be extensive and possibly boring, but i still think they're more effective than futurama's lasers.
Beamer

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #11 on: 10-03-2003 03:19 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Luis:
And Beamer, you also have a good point there, i never saw lasers do other things than kill or stun...

I just think it's safe to assume the weapons have more features than necessarily shown. After all, Leela's wrist thingy and Bender himself seem to have endless features, so if things like this are standard in the 30th century, it'd be practical to assume that anything designed to shoot would have more than one function. Still, with the series over, I guess we'll never know...
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #12 on: 10-03-2003 12:50 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 12:50 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Kuis:
Modern automatic rifles seem better than DOOP rifles, the PE ship still fires conventional explosive warhead torpedoes, conventional missiles, or lasers. It's the future so shouldn't we see some new and surprising weapons? of course the DOOP rifles were a joke, but torpedoes on a space ship that can move the universe? haven't these people heard of particle accelerators, sonic oscilators or plasma weapons?

Weapon development is a race between offense and defense. As one gets the upper hand, more resources are poured into the other. Perhaps at one point when directed energy weapons dominated the battlefield someone found a way to absorb their energy in a defence shield, practically rendering them useless.

In one DS9 episode a small attack party used a ship mounted disruptor to flood an area with particles, disabling all directed energy weapons.

One day a bright engineer in the DOOP R&D department, thought that since modern shields stop all inbound energy, but allow solid objects (shuttles, supply drones, whathaveyou) to pass, why not use oldfashioned torpedoes and high-explosives. But for all we know the torpedoes might as well carry a small matter-anti-matter charge.

An (almost) present-day example: prior to the Vietnam War, military planners thought missiles would dominate the air-battles in the future. Fighters would engage eachother while still out of sight. As a consequence the new line of jetfighters wasn't armed with cannons and pilots wasn't trained in dogfighting. After having spent their missiles (often with less-than-satisfactory results) American pilots were sitting ducks for the agile (and cannon-fitted) MiG's, and had to run for their lifes. Soon after the Americans re-fitted their fighters with cannons, and started training their pilots in the art of dogfight.

Just because things are old, doesn't mean they're inferior.

As for the DOOP positron shooter, it has one major advantage over modern day assault riffles: it never run out of ammo and it's light. Riffle ammo is heavy (belive me, I know from personal experience), 20 rounds of NATO standard 7.62 weigh around 700-800g. Add in that most infantry men carry 100 rounds, that's almost 4 kilograms of ammo. Weight the DOOP soldiers don't have to worry about. Granted the DOOP squad in WITHW didn't fare well, since they all ran out of energy and had to recharge at the same time, but these were raw recruits with nary a days worth of training. Seasoned veterans wouldn't make the same mistake.

Woops, got carried away again.   wink
[/rant]
Xmpel

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #13 on: 10-03-2003 12:52 »

... Cause all weapons suck. Thats why.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #14 on: 10-03-2003 13:31 »

Teral's post = good.

I notice that a lot of weapons are very similar to our weapons today... Like in "The Series Has Landed" we see the moonfarmer with what appears to be a doublebarrelled shotgun with rings on the end....
Lt. Kroker

Bending Unit
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« Reply #15 on: 10-03-2003 14:35 »

Maybe people came to their senses and realised that funny weapons are better than deadly weapons?
TheMadCapper

Fluffy
UberMod
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #16 on: 10-03-2003 16:02 »

Because it's a cartoon and a comedy, maybe. Geez.

It doesn't have to always be logical.
Asylum-Fry

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #17 on: 10-03-2003 16:13 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by TheMadCapper:
Because it's a cartoon and a comedy, maybe. Geez.

It doesn't have to always be logical.

But half the fun is debating about how the stuff works, TMC.
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #18 on: 10-03-2003 16:18 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 16:18 »

Teral : You point out several important things, and explain them well too. That's very logical, but most weapons shown on futurama use lasers, which are energy weapons, particle accelerators aren't energy weapons, they use accelerated kinetic projectiles. And great point on vietnam, i camn't rebate that. Finally, i though the standard NATO round was the 5.56 since the introduction of the M16, 7.62 isn't used on rifles anymore, even the AK weapons family switched to 5.45 a long time ago, it's just that there's a surplus of old and cheap soviet equipment. Xmpel : Care to explain your POV?
Winna : Good obvservation, that's what makes me think today's weapons did survive the 2 coming of Jesus.
Lt. Kroker : I said future weapons suck because today's weapons seem way better, future weapons are still deadly
TMC : Ok, I aready said i understand DOOP rifles are a joke. But Asylum-Fry explained my point before I could answer.
Xmpel

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #19 on: 10-03-2003 16:33 »

Yes.

I know that without weapons some aliens would probably come shoot us all with their mighty slingshots but I will never care for guns!

Also I think Star Trek has some cool weapons. Various knives and Bat'lehts.

Although all phasers and disruptors look the same to me.
Chump

Urban Legend
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« Reply #20 on: 10-03-2003 16:33 »

What about the museum they visit when Zoidbergs people take over the world in "A Taste of Freedom"? They see all sorts of weapons like our heat seeking missiles. And old weapons like crossbows. I'll try to remember some more and get some pictures...
Lt. Kroker

Bending Unit
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« Reply #21 on: 10-03-2003 16:33 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Luis
I said future weapons suck because today's weapons seem way better, future weapons are still deadly

I know, I just wanted to point out that the fact weapons suck might be a good thing. Also, it's a cartoon, and lasers are funnier than horrific weapons of mass destruction.
Chump

Urban Legend
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« Reply #22 on: 10-03-2003 16:37 »
« Last Edit on: 10-03-2003 16:37 »

Thanks for posting Lt. Kroker, now this isn't a double post!


Cannons and a sword (rapier?)!


Guns, rifles, sharkapaults, salad-shooters, silenced guns, snuper rifles...


Spear!


Crossbow, and a tommy gun.

Also there was a Tommy Gun in the episode with the Star Trek people.

And the cops use those lightsaber sticks.

And Santa has that high tech weaponry.
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #23 on: 10-03-2003 16:46 »

Thanks Chump, i forgot about that ep. But now you see my point? they destroyed the decapodian with a heatseeking, armor piercing, explosive tipped missile. Not with lasers, not with blasters, but with an old weapon, which proves current wepons tech is better than futurama's, which is exactly what i was talking about : Why is that so?
Chump

Urban Legend
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« Reply #24 on: 10-03-2003 16:49 »

Not so. It proves that Zapp is stupid.

They have much much much better weaponry, such as that which is used by the Nimbus, however, it didn;t get used because the security measures were bungled by Zapp.
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #25 on: 10-03-2003 18:24 »

Yes, but what i meant was that that thing was a moving fortress. It was probably designed to withstand modern weapons, right? so why did a HEAT missile destroy it in a single hit?
Chump

Urban Legend
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« Reply #26 on: 10-03-2003 23:02 »

Maybe it hit it in just the right place, which is a Decapodian secret, which Zoidberg knew, so he threw the flag exactly where he needed it.

Or maybe the missile runs on wizard power.
leelaholic

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #27 on: 10-03-2003 23:18 »

D'OH! Beat me to it.
Luis

Bending Unit
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« Reply #28 on: 10-04-2003 00:50 »

Actually, if i remember it right, the missile hit on sand, so it shouldn't have exploded, since modern HEAT (High explosive anti tank) missiles don't explode on contact or punch thru armor, they burn thru the plating, but since there wasn't any plating, it shouldn't even have exploded. So, i agree with chump's second explanation.
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #29 on: 10-04-2003 14:58 »
« Last Edit on: 10-04-2003 14:58 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Luis:
Finally, i though the standard NATO round was the 5.56 since the introduction of the M16, 7.62 isn't used on rifles anymore, even the AK weapons family switched to 5.45 a long time ago.

"NATO standard 7.62" is a designation. It mean the cartridge adhere to the rather strict rules set by the alliance for this particular caliber.

While the trend certainly is heading for 5.56, the 7.62 still has it's uses. The Danish army for one still have large quantities of the Heckler&Koch G3 (mainly used by the Home Guard), though it's been replaced by the C7 in the regular army. Light machine guns, like the MG-42 and the M-60, use it as well.
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