Futurama   Planet Express Employee Lounge
The Futurama Message Board

Design and Support by Can't get enough Futurama
Help Search Futurama chat Login Register

PEEL - The Futurama Message Board    Re-Check/Weird Scenes    Figuring out the Quantum Plot Holes in "Why of Fry": My theory « previous next »
Author Topic: Figuring out the Quantum Plot Holes in "Why of Fry": My theory  (Read 2107 times)
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Print
RedBaron

Crustacean
*
« on: 04-13-2003 06:18 »
« Last Edit on: 04-13-2003 06:18 »

I just saw "Why of Fry" the other day and was confused by all the plot holes and time paradoxes that the episode brought up. I decided to sit down and try to figure it out. I thought I'd share it with you guys and in order to validate my efforts in making sense of the quantum mechanics of a cartoon show.
 
Thanks for reading if you do so. Be warned, it's long. Hopefully this will make sense to you.
_____________________________ _______

Here we go. I’ve realized that the Quantum Mechanics don't seem to work in the episode “Why of Fry”. Nibbler says it was foreseen by there sages that Fry, because of his missing delta wave pattern, would defeat the Brain Balls. But how could the Fry in the first episode be without the delta wave if he had not yet gone back in time to father his father? The answer is that the Fry we know in the cartoon is actually the second or third alternate timeline version of the Fry we see in the Pilot. The following theory is not perfect, but this is the only way I can make it make sense. Hope it makes sense to you.
 
Timeline A:
 
- The Fry we know in Space Pilot is Fry (A). He cannot have the missing deltawave because Ennis is his grandfather. He belongs to timeline (A) where he never went back to Roswell. Also, because he never went to Roswell 1947, Zoidberg never went as well and, in this reality, no aliens were ever discovered.
 
- Nibbler (A) freezes Fry (A) in December 1999 (A) because his sages have forseen all I will describe. Fry (A) is frozen until the future. Everything goes along as we have watched it on the show until we get to “The Day the Earth Stood Stupid”. Because Fry (A) does not have the Missing deltawave he cannot defeat the Brain Balls. Somehow, Fry(A) has to survive somehow and assumingly, with his friends, go back in time to Rosewell 1947 (A) for the rest of this to work. For the sake of argument, he and his friends get to 1947 similiar to how they do in the episode
 
- When Fry (A) and gang make it to 1947 (A, here Fry (A) doesn’t kill his grandfather. If he did he would disappear from time before having sex with his grandmother. Jus as Farnsworth says, “If, for example, you were to kill your grandfather you’d cease to exist”. Somehow Fry (A), in the end, has to have sex with his Grandmother to conceive his father. Because of the events Fry (A) sets in motion --creating his father who will in turn father a young Fry with the missing deltawave-- Fry (A) is a paradox and cannot exist. Fry (A) will never be born because Fry (B), the product of Fry (A)’s actions, will take his place in time. To solve the paradox as best as I can figure it, at the moment Fry (A)’s sperm combines with his Grandmother’s egg the universe blinks Bender (A), Fry (A), Leela (A), Farnsworth (A), Zoidberg (A), and Planet Express (A) out of existence totally. They cannot exist because they have prevented Fry (A) from being born and, since Fry (A) caused them to get to 1947 (A), they cannot exist. They come from an impossible future so the universe destroys them. The only existing echo of timeline (A) is the baby created by Fry (A)’s sperm and his Grandmother’s egg. The baby is half impossible future and half possible present so it cannot be destroyed without damaging the possible present of 1947. Timeline (A) no longer exists and is replaced with timeline (B).
 
Timeline B:
 
It continues from 1944 (B) onward until Fry (B) is born and the Nibblonians (B) see his birth and recognize his missing deltawave. They make sure to send Nibbler (B) to make sure Fry (B) is frozen because the key to defeating the brain balls is his lack of delta wave. Fry (B) is frozen in December 1999 (B). Everything goes as we see in the show except that Fry (B) is now able to defeat the Brain Balls because of his missing deltawave. Everything mostly continues as we have seen it on the show after “Stupid” until “Roswell”. Because Fry (B) defeated the Brain Balls, his deltawave is an X factor that causes the events taking him to Roswell to not happen exactly the same as those from (A) timeline. Here, Fry (B) has to do something different that takes the gang back to 1944 (B) before Fry (A) would arrived and conceived his father.
 
- Gang (B) has to arrive before Gang (A) did because, in 1947 (B), the physical damages caused by Gang (A) and the memories of Gang (A) before they disappeared would still exist. Arriving before (A) allows Fry (B), without deltawave, to conceive his father. This action makes any possibility of Fry (A) from coming to Roswell 1947 also impossible. Then shouldn’t Fry (B) and his gang blink out of existence since they depend on timeline (A) to get them there?Not so!
 
- Because Fry (B) has the missing deltawave, the father he conceives will give birth to a son also with the deltawave. This ensures that the new Fry that Fry (B) helps create will do the exact same things that Fry (B) did to get to Roswell 1947 (B). Fry (B) is therefore not a paradox because young Fry (B) will grow and perpetuate the chain of events into infinity. Time is not harmed. When Fry (B) and gang get back to the future that is not compromised by Fry (B)’s existence it as if they never left, and they go to Future Roswell and digs up Bender (B).
 
- Again, everything goes as we have forseen it up to “Why of Fry”. Nibbler (B) again recruits him for his missing delta wave. Fry (B) sends the Brain Ball sphere into another dimension with him inside, and then is sent back to 1999 (B) by the brain balls. Fry (B) is now in the same time as the younger Fry (B) who is his grandson thanks to messing around in Roswell. As long as Fry (B) makes sure that young Fry (B) is frozen he will not be a paradox. He’ll be stuck in 1999 and die but he’ll exist because young Fry (B) will end up in Roswell to be his own grandfather. However, since Fry (B) mention the crappy scooter to young Nibbler (B), he creates another paradox. He cannot exist with young Nibbler (B) and young Fry (B) if Nibbler (B) will go forth and give him a better scooter that allows him to escapee the Brain Ball sphere, thus never to travelling back to 1999 (B) to give news of a crappy scooter. Fry blinks out of existence as we see in the episode. Because of the way young Nibbler (B) will act with the new information, he and The young Fry (B) will now act out different events than those we saw happen to old Fry (B). Time is altered again, timeline (B) ceases to exist, and Nibbler (B) and young Fry (B) become Nibbler (C) and young Fry (C).
 
Timeline C:
 
- For Fry (C) everything takes place EXACTLY as we have seen it on the show minus the first episode. He is able to defeat the brain balls and conceive his father. The flashback in “Jurassic Bark” that shows Fry’s shadow under the desk is from Fry (C)’s point of view and the shadow was Fry (B) who ceased to exist the moment Fry (C) was frozen. Fry (C) is recruited by Nibbler but given a better scooter and makes it out of the Brain Sphere (C) and saves the day!
 
 I know this is not exactly perfect, but it’s the best I could do. The whole thing would have been so much easier if “Roswell” came chronologically before “The Day the Earth Stood Stupid”. As you can see, Fry really is the linchpin of the universe. There’s still some possible paradoxical quantum holes in this theory, but I thought I’d give it a whirl.
 
Thanks for reading! Let me know what you think.
Grim

Professor
*
« Reply #1 on: 04-13-2003 09:08 »
« Last Edit on: 04-13-2003 09:08 »

The first question- how could fry lack the delta brain wave before he did the nasty in the pasty, is easier explained that he always lacked the brain wave, because his future self was always his grandfather. Enos was never Fry's grandfather, Fry's existence is a paradox in itself.
Fry's grandfather is fry, he came back and existed in 1947 for 24hrs, inwhich he impregnated Mildred, then went back to the future.

I cant stand parallel  timelines, I like Doc brown's time line sqewing explanation better. Something exists even though it came from a point that doesnt exist on the new sqewed time line.

I spose I only support Back to the future style timetravel, makes the most sense IMHO

Edit: My explanation-
1999- Fry (who lacks the delta brain wave because his future-self is his grandfather) is frozen by Nibbler, because of aforementioned lacking brain wave, almost interupted by Fry from 3002 (1) (see below).
3000- Fry is awoken
3001- Fry fights brains
3002- Super Nova + metal inmicrowave
Goes back to 1947.
1947- Enos, who is not fry's grandfather, is killed in nuclear blast. Fry impregnates his grandmother mildred, fulfilling his own existence and returns to the future.
3002 (1)- Fry detonates Quantum interface bomb, events take place that return him to 1999. Almost interupts freezing...

now this is the tricky part. the timeline would continue, all the way to the quantum interface bomb, and fry coming back. at this point the timeline is sqewed. The Fry who comes back can still exist to **almost** interfere, but only for those moments, as although he exists, the time he came from doesnt.

3002 (2)- this is the sqewed event, fry escapes quantum interface bomb, and they all live happily ever after... or do they...
Australian Guy

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #2 on: 04-13-2003 11:28 »

......................Welcome to Peel
Nixorbo

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #3 on: 04-13-2003 16:25 »
« Last Edit on: 04-13-2003 16:25 »

Nixorbo's #1 of science fiction:

Never try to understand or explain temporal paradoxes.  You'll just make yourself go cross-eyed.
Allen

Professor
*
« Reply #4 on: 04-13-2003 17:36 »

(tries to understand these explanations. Fails.)

In the immortal words of The Mighty One (Fry)

"Magic, got it."
RedBaron

Crustacean
*
« Reply #5 on: 04-13-2003 17:47 »
« Last Edit on: 04-13-2003 17:47 »

   
Quote
Quote
Originally posted by Grim:
The first question- how could fry lack the delta brain wave before he did the nasty in the pasty, is easier explained that he always lacked the brain wave, because his future self was always his grandfather. Enos was never Fry's grandfather, Fry's existence is a paradox in itself.
Fry's grandfather is fry, he came back and existed in 1947 for 24hrs, inwhich he impregnated Mildred, then went back to the future.

That would be easier but it doesn't make logical sense.

Have you ever heard the phrase that the universe abhors a paradox? One of the fundamental underlying philosophical approaches to quantum mechanics and time travel theory (and all sciences) is that the universe works on the basis of logic. A paradox goes against all the universe stands for. Here's some examples:



THE NOTORIOUS MOTHER PARADOX (left) and RESOLUTION OF THE PARADOX (right

THE NOTORIOUS MOTHER PARADOX (sometimes formulated using other familial relationships) arises when people or objects can travel backward in time and alter the past. A simplified version involves billiard balls. A billiard ball passes through a wormhole time machine. Upon emerging, it hits its earlier self, thereby preventing it from ever entering the wormhole.

RESOLUTION OF THE PARADOX proceeds from a simple realization: the billiard ball cannot do something that is inconsistent with logic or with the laws of physics. It cannot pass through the wormhole in such a way that will prevent it from passing through the wormhole. But nothing stops it from passing through the wormhole in an infinity of other ways.

That's why I had to rationalize that Fry could not always be his own grandfather and there would have had to be atleast one Fry who was not.

 
Quote
Quote
Originally posted by Grim:
I cant stand parallel timelines, I like Doc brown's time line sqewing explanation better. Something exists even though it came from a point that doesnt exist on the new sqewed time line.

This is something I struggled with as I tried to come up with a theory. Do I beleive something can exist even though it is a paradox by causing itself not to exist, or does it fade away (ala Marty McFly in Back to the Future when he starts to prevent his mom and dad from getting togetehr)? I came to the conclusion, that since we see Fry disappear in "Why of Fry" after telling Nibbler about the Scooty Puff Jr., that when one alters time so that he or she becomes a paradox, they cease to exist.
Ricky

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #6 on: 04-13-2003 18:02 »

Meh.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #7 on: 04-13-2003 18:24 »

I actually understand this better than any of you.

Fry is born, as the son of Yancy, who is the son of Fry himself. This is because when Fry interfered with Enos, and caused his death... Nothing was actually changed. See, Fry travelled through time, yet he travelled back to a time that had already passed through existance. This meant that he always was his own grandfather, due to truth being stranger than fiction. Paradoxes have been proved to have occured or something... I read that in New Scientist a while ago. So, this explains why the universe collapsed on itself in AOI 1, when Fry destroyed his cryo-tube. Fry would have prevented his own existance through not getting frozen. This seems to be something that Nibbler did not think of when offering Fry a choice.

So the "paradox" is proved to be something that has a place in the universe. This rules out alternate timelines.

Fry travels back in time to 1999 later on, and is offered his choice by Nibbler. The fact that he tells Nibbler about the ScootyPuff Jnr alters time here, causing another apparant paradox that is in fact perfectyl logical. Fry never gets sent back in time to tell Nibbler due to the fact that the timeline is altered, yet the memory of his doing so is preserved. This is due to Time not being a straigth line, but bendable. The few seconds in 1999 form a long loop in time. The rest of time forms a smaller loop. So we have a figure eight on a straight line. Fry enters the loop and is snatched from it at the other end, cutting out the large loop and closing it off. The smaller loop therefore straigtens out and Time and the Universe absorb Fry's meddling with Causality.

Note that no such self-healing loop is constructed for the 1947 incident due to nothing actually changing.

Time does actually "bend" in this manner. Look up Black Holes for further info.

There. Some advanced astrophysics and lots of technical conjecture would be nice to round this off with, buit it works well enough already. Feel free to point out any flaws, but be warned that I'm smarter than you will ever be, and have devoted more time than is healthy to thinking about the ramifications of this.
Grim

Professor
*
« Reply #8 on: 04-13-2003 18:28 »

people will never agree on this sorta stuff

Your explanation, my explanation, meh

I'd like to hear David X Cohen's explanation tho...
RedBaron

Crustacean
*
« Reply #9 on: 04-13-2003 18:30 »

Smarter than all of us? That's a very crass statement to make, whether it's true or not. I assume you're "smarter" because you've studied this stuff.

Anyway when you say "paradoxes have been proved to have occured or something... I read that in New Scientist a while ago" I'd like more info on that. That statement doesnt' really help.

Your points are very interesting and as an amateur in everything science with an interest in time theory, I thank you for your post.

I still can't wrap my head around how Fry in the pilot  can be his own grandson if he hadn't gone back in time yet. It doesn't make logical sense to me that the present would take into account the future instead of the other way around.

"but be warned that I'm smarter than you will ever be"

You're joking, right?
Grim

Professor
*
« Reply #10 on: 04-13-2003 18:40 »

Fry in the pilot's future self, travelled back in time to father the Fry in the pilot!

If time travel exists, than all time exists at once and u can think of future selves existing to interact in the past...

oh my I just went cross-eyed...
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #11 on: 04-13-2003 19:01 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by RedBaron:
"but be warned that I'm smarter than you will ever be"

You're joking, right?

Yes.

You take me too seriously, and your eyes will bleed.

Trust me on the theory side. There is no evidence or theory that can disprove any of what I said.

RedBaron

Crustacean
*
« Reply #12 on: 04-13-2003 19:04 »

Thanks, totalnerduk. It's just that it's hard to get sarcasm across on the internet and I've been in situations when I thought someone was being incredibly satirical, so I had good fun debating with them, yet I found out they were actually being serious. That was scary.

That's the great thing about any of these theories. They're only theories and you can't disprove an idea, especially about time travel which is strictly theoretical at best.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #13 on: 04-13-2003 19:25 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by RedBaron:
That's the great thing about any of these theories. They're only theories and you can't disprove an idea, especially about time travel which is strictly theoretical at best.

I love theories that can't be disproven... it means that I can be Technically Correct (the best kind of correct) nearly all the time if I stick to conjecture, and skirt around the edges of established precepts.

CyberKnight

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #14 on: 04-13-2003 19:26 »

I think one of the most fundamental laws of the universe is that it will always attempt to go to a stable state. This is fairly self-evident, as an unstable state will produce further states, whereas a stable state will remain until environmental variables are changed which cause this "stable" state to become less stable.

From Futurama, I assume they follow the concept of infinite multiple universes. That is, for every event that has occured or will occur in the universe, there is another universe in which that event is altered. Without the temporal paradox of Fry being his own grandfather, the universe ceases to exist (as in AOI1). However, the universe in which "Futurama" is set is one which has a solution to it's own destruction - freezing Fry, which means he will become his own grandfather, which means the universe will not be destroyed (at least in this case). Thus the events themselves are not changeable, as any alteration would result in a shift to an alternate universe (potentially one which would be destroyed).

BTTF was always a little fuzzy on time-travel, sometimes adopting the "ripple-effect", sometimes "effect-precedes-cause", etc. Made for great movies, though  wink.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #15 on: 04-13-2003 19:34 »

CyberKnight... to refine you theory, the Universe we see in Futurama is the single Stable Reality which connects all other Unstable Realities... it is their one common point. An Unstable Reality would in this case be a synonym for "possibility", meaning that the universe is constantly creating the "time loops" to close off events that I referred to, making them stable, and ensuring the continued existance of Existance.

God, I'm good  wink
evan

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #16 on: 04-13-2003 19:35 »

Uh...something with this many big words must be correct.
AJ

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #17 on: 04-13-2003 19:51 »

Just skimming this thread, so as not to be 'spoil'ed, The Why of Fry looks to be a kick-ass episode... Hurry up Aussie TV - catch up with the US episodes!!!  smile
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #18 on: 04-13-2003 19:59 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by evan:
Uh...something with this many big words must be correct.

Plus I posted it. That usually helps.

Molten Boron

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #19 on: 04-13-2003 20:34 »
« Last Edit on: 04-13-2003 20:34 »

ohhhh,the great debate over time-travel.
Even physicist are debating this issue. Read the  arguments of Dr. Kip Thorne and Dr.Stephen Hawking.
But, I am more of an alternate parallel universe type of guy than time travel, I believe time is constant.    tongue 

My take
Fry0 (no brain spawn) travels to PU1 and becomes the father of Fry1. We are introduced to Fry1, no delta waves. Fry1 and becomes father of Fry2.  Fry 1 returns to "PU1/another PU" or "PU2 in the future" which happens to have Bender underground.  In "The Why of Fry", Fry1 gets stuck with the brain spawn forever while FryX gets the Scooty Puff Sr. and gets the kiss from LeelaX.     confused


totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #20 on: 04-13-2003 20:39 »

Fact: Time is not constant.

Fact: You have just created an infinite repeating loop of Frys with that theory.

Fact: Parallel universes would merely exist in potentia until occupied by the knotted and twisted path of Time.

See? Told ya' I was smarter!  tongue

Nixorbo

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #21 on: 04-13-2003 20:55 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by RedBaron:
I still can't wrap my head around how Fry in the pilot  can be his own grandson if he hadn't gone back in time yet. It doesn't make logical sense to me that the present would take into account the future instead of the other way around.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nixorbo:
Nixorbo's #1 of science fiction:

Never try to understand or explain temporal paradoxes.  You'll just make yourself go cross-eyed.

I have a thousand years of power.
"NOOOOO HE WAS MY BROTHER!" and then got tired and slept.


"He has the special talent, though, of being able to help people and make them feel utterly stupid all at the same time. ... In short, he's a great moderator, but a terrible human being."
-SlackJawedMoron
Chanukah Zombie

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #22 on: 04-13-2003 20:55 »

One would think that this is exactly the sort of discussion I would devour.  It's not... but I can see how that would be a comforting thought to have nonetheless. 

I will add this:

We see in this ep that (original) Fry actually falls backward of his own accord -- without any intervention from Nibbler or his future self!  You'll notice that "future" Fry then grabs hold of the chair's leg and prevents this happening, only to cause it himself a few moments later.  Therefore, we learn that Fry's falling into the chamber would have happened no matter what -- that it was an immutable, pre-ordained event in the universe.  The involvement of Nibbler and "future" Fry were effectively irrelevant in that respect.

And this:

So what if some guy actually is smarter than you?  Plenty of guys are smarter than me and it doesn't bother me.  Plenty of other guys are stronger, faster, handsomer, whatever.  I like what I got and it's even in my power to make it better.  Who cares what the next guy has?
Molten Boron

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #23 on: 04-13-2003 20:55 »
« Last Edit on: 04-13-2003 20:55 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by totalnerduk:
Fact: Time is not constant.

Fact: You have just created an infinite repeating loop of Frys with that theory.

Fact: Parallel universes would merely exist in potentia until occupied by the knotted and twisted path of Time.

See? Told ya' I was smarter!     tongue


I think time is constant, for one reason if time travel did occur, how will we know time has changed if it happend in the past and we did not go to the past. We both win     tongue

Besides if you are better in something you are weaker in others, so everyone is even.  smile
Nixorbo

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #24 on: 04-13-2003 21:00 »
« Last Edit on: 04-13-2003 21:00 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Chanukah Zombie:
We see in this ep that (original) Fry actually falls backward of his own accord -- without any intervention from Nibbler or his future self!

That might have something to do with Future Fry and Nibbler being out of the camera angle, except for their shadows.  Thus, we cannot see any such intervention.  Besides, they knocked him over by blowing on him.  You expect Rough Draft, etc, to be able to animate a breath?  Furthermore, the one time there was no intervention, AoI 1 (we can deduce this by the fact that Nibbler's shadow does not appear), Fry didn't fall in the tube, and the universe was destroyed.

Also, you'll notice that in the pilot, one can clearly see ONE shadow, Nibbler's.  However, in TWoF, we can clearly see TWO shadows as Past Fry tips over - Future Fry and Nibbler's.  Tell me I wasn't the only one to notice that.

 
Quote
You'll notice that "future" Fry then grabs hold of the chair's leg and prevents this happening

You'll also notice that this happens well before the countdown.  Fry, in the pilot, didn't fall in until after the countdown.  Thus, Future Fry keeps the sequence of events the same, by making sure that Past Fry doesn't fall over until he should.

I have a thousand years of power.
"NOOOOO HE WAS MY BROTHER!" and then got tired and slept.


"He has the special talent, though, of being able to help people and make them feel utterly stupid all at the same time. ... In short, he's a great moderator, but a terrible human being."
-SlackJawedMoron
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #25 on: 04-13-2003 21:15 »
« Last Edit on: 04-13-2003 21:15 by totalnerduk »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Molten Boron: We both win        tongue

Coward. Time is not a constant. There is only one constant, and that is infinity. Infinity can never be altered, it just is. Time is especially not a constant in Futurama, due to the changes that happened in the "closed loop" which was "cut off" by the self-healing process of existance. This proves that time can indeed be messed with to some extent. (See my earlier posts).

Re: the smart comment, also read my earlier posts. There are some things (like the explanation I have provided) that you should take seriously and some things (like smartarsed quips) that you should not.


@Molten Boron: it isn't about winning. Just accept that what you have said is flawed. As far as I'm concerned it's about answering the question that has been posed.

To my mind, it is settled. I have given this quite a bit of thought, and my explanation holds water from every angle. This means that the plot holes referred to do not exist.

I would respectfully request that this thread be transferred as of this post to the PEEL Museum, as it is a pivotal moment in the show, and  also, I believe that the thread has been answered.

@Nixorbo: I noticed it too. It fits in with my "loop" theory.

@the next poster: please take your time to read through the thread, noting every single point raised if you are even going to try to disagree with something. It saves time and effort in the long run.

   big grin    tongue    roll eyes

Chanukah Zombie

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #26 on: 04-13-2003 23:06 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nixorbo:
   You'll also notice that this happens well before the countdown.  Fry, in the pilot, didn't fall in until after the countdown.  Thus, Future Fry keeps the sequence of events the same, by making sure that Past Fry doesn't fall over until he should.


We could ask at least three more questions on that note:

1) Would fry falling into the chamber a bit early make any appreciable difference vis-à-vis his future in the future?  Consider that Al Gore's Vice Presidential Action Rangers were confident the only important thing was simply that Fry get frozen at approximately the right time. 

2) Why exactly did he tip over prematurely in this ep and in this ep alone?  Was it the start of that same tipping over we saw in AoI1 when he merely banged his head? 

3) Did Nibbler's "original" subvention [1ACV01] make any difference at all?  Perhaps he blew on that chair leg and the little puff of air had no effect... yet Fry fell anyway despite that.  I understand the point that at the moment when Fry's life literally and figuratively hung in the balance even the breath of a guinea pig could alter his destiny... but who says it actually did?  It is probably no coincidence that the writers gave Rough Draft a plot device that would not be drawn -- invisible air.  Hence, it becomes very difficult to prove that Nibbler really had anything to do with anything. 
Chanukah Zombie

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #27 on: 04-13-2003 23:35 »

I just noticed the school bus that carried Fry, Gore and the VPAR has "Grand Unified School District" written on its side.  Adorable. 

I once studied under this physics professor, Dr. Gerald Schroeder, who tried to figure out what the rate of time's passage was in all parts of the universe and thereby determine the ages of these parts.  Then he averaged the numbers and called it the Average Age of the Universe.  The really shocking thing is that it was darn close to the year of the Hebrew calendar (reckoned from the Biblical date of Creation) which was the extremely low figure of 5700+.  Pretty freaky, huh?  Of course, his findings were largely panned in the scientific community because he was a religious man and they said he was just trying to prove the veracity of his religion.  Even if that were so, it was still argumentum ad hominem for them to say that.

I now see that he has a website up.  Here's the address if you're interested:

 http://www.geraldschroeder.com/   

It says he wrote three books on the subject.  I might check them out. 

VelourFog

Space Pope
****
« Reply #28 on: 04-13-2003 23:38 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nixorbo:
   You'll also notice that this happens well before the countdown.  Fry, in the pilot, didn't fall in until after the countdown.  Thus, Future Fry keeps the sequence of events the same, by making sure that Past Fry doesn't fall over until he should.

I noticed the nibbler and fry shadows also.
and nibbler blew on fry (the 1st time) then fry blew on fry (the 3rd time)... fry was already tipping over, obviously. unless nibbler is part windy shrimp  wink
Allen

Professor
*
« Reply #29 on: 04-13-2003 23:51 »

Some people keep saying that Nibbler was not instrumental in Fry's freezing. Hello? Nibbler is the reason that he's even there in the first place! Without that crank call, Fry never would have come to the cyrogenics building. Nibbler's probably responsible for leaving the tube open.

So whether or not Nibbler actually pushed him in the tube is irrelevant. He's still important.

Covering my butt cause I know someone's going to ask: The What If Machine showed a possible future (no future) if Fry hadn't been pushed into the tube. Basically it makes things simple by just showing him in the cyrogenics building not getting frozen. Also because Fry and crew don't know who placed the order, it's possible the What If Machine just put in a fake call. It's not a know it all machine.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #30 on: 04-14-2003 02:16 »

It could be argued that in the alternate universe shown in AOI1, Nibbler placed the order but assumed Fry would fall into the cryotube, or would be otherwise prevented from ensuring his freezing. Thus Nibbler does not set up the desk correctly, thus Fry is too far from the cryotube and bangs his head instead of falling into the tube.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Totalnerduk
CyberKnight... to refine you theory, the Universe we see in Futurama is the single Stable Reality which connects all other Unstable Realities... it is their one common point. An Unstable Reality would in this case be a synonym for "possibility", meaning that the universe is constantly creating the "time loops" to close off events that I referred to, making them stable, and ensuring the continued existance of Existance.


Exactly.  wink. As the saying goes, Nature abhors a vacuum.


Gocad

Space Pope
****
« Reply #31 on: 04-14-2003 02:35 »

Figuring how a temporal paradox is supposed to work usually leads to severe madness...

It's a Science Fiction show. Therefore things that aren't supposed to work do work there. And only there.

Get a Life!


I'm watching you. Yes, YOU!
Chanukah Zombie

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #32 on: 04-14-2003 02:39 »

 
Quote
So whether or not Nibbler actually pushed him in the tube is irrelevant. He's still important.

 

Wait up, dude.  There's something in what you say that makes me question what you say.  In AoI1, everything that's supposed to happen does happen, except for two things: Fry doesn't fall into the cryotube and Nibbler's shadow is not present.  However, everything else happens including the order from I. C. Weiner.  If Nibbler wasn't around to place that call, then who did?  Will the real I. C. Weiner please stand up?

You could say as CK did, that Nibbler did everything but the last part, but this is challenged by Ockham's Razor.  In the absence of any evidence to the contrary we must assume Nibbler had absolutely no involvement in the scenario of AoI1.  "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate." 
Nixorbo

UberMod
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #33 on: 04-14-2003 02:40 »
« Last Edit on: 04-14-2003 02:40 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Chanukah Zombie:
Was it the start of that same tipping over we saw in AoI1 when he merely banged his head?

Nope.  The one in AoI was also the result of the party favor after the countdown.

Also, @ CZ - Perhaps Nibbler simply got stuck in an elevator after making the call, or got mugged, or something.  Who knows?  The simplest answer would probably be that Nibbler was delayed/detained after making the I C Weiner call.

I have a thousand years of power.
"NOOOOO HE WAS MY BROTHER!" and then got tired and slept.


"He has the special talent, though, of being able to help people and make them feel utterly stupid all at the same time. ... In short, he's a great moderator, but a terrible human being."
-SlackJawedMoron
Gocad

Space Pope
****
« Reply #34 on: 04-14-2003 02:48 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Chanukah Zombie:
   "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate." 

Hey, don't quote in latin unless you provide the translation as well, Mr. I know Latin!


I'm watching you. Yes, YOU!
Chanukah Zombie

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #35 on: 04-14-2003 03:16 »

 
Quote
Perhaps Nibbler simply got stuck in an elevator after making the call, or got mugged, or something.  Who knows?  The simplest answer would probably be that Nibbler was delayed/detained after making the I C Weiner call.


See, that's the big problem with Ockham's Razor.  Everyone agrees it's a good rule of thumb.  No one agrees on when to apply it.  On the other hand, Nix would have a tough time pushing it past the Philosophy Department to argue that "X was present but partly restrained" is a simpler statement than "X was not present." 

The reason I didn't translate Ockham's Razor is that it's another thing the philosophers don't agree upon. 

Here is one English rendering: "Plurality should not be posited without necessity." 

And here is another: "Entities should not be multiplied unnecessarily.''

It is sometimes called the Law of Parsimony and also appears in Latin as, "Non sunt multiplicanda entia praeter necessitatem."
JDHannan

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #36 on: 04-14-2003 03:34 »

i didnt see anyone else mention this but it seems obvious to me.  Enis was never fry's grandfather.  Fry's grandmother probably told everyone that Enis was because otherwise everyone would think she was a whore who sleeps with strangers to make herself feel better for her boyfriend's death.
Kristi
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #37 on: 04-14-2003 04:05 »

Besides, if Enos was ever Fry's grandfather at any point Fry would be different because he'd have different DNA.

 
Quote
Nixorbo's #1 of science fiction:

Never try to understand or explain temporal paradoxes. You'll just make yourself go cross-eyed.

*goes cross-eyed*
Gocad

Space Pope
****
« Reply #38 on: 04-14-2003 04:50 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Nixorbo:
Nixorbo's #1 of science fiction:

Never try to understand or explain temporal paradoxes.  You'll just make yourself go cross-eyed.

Nix, you do have something of a wise man or something similar...


I'm watching you. Yes, YOU!
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #39 on: 04-14-2003 05:18 »
« Last Edit on: 04-14-2003 05:18 »

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by SMF | SMF © 2006, Simple Machines | some icons from famfamfam
Legal Notice & Disclaimer: "Futurama" TM and copyright FOX, its related entities and the Curiosity Company. All rights reserved. Any reproduction, duplication or distribution of these materials in any form is expressly prohibited. As a fan site, this Futurama forum, its operators, and any content on the site relating to "Futurama" are not explicitely authorized by Fox or the Curiosity Company.
Page created in 0.268 seconds with 17 queries.