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Author Topic: The Complicated genealogy of Phillip J. Fry  (Read 16792 times)
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Farnsworth150

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« on: 12-24-2011 07:51 »

The very first episode we discover that Fry, only has one living relative to claim him. The DNA test concludes that the Professor is his 30x great grand nephew. However at the ending of Roswell That Ends Well we find out Fry is actually his own Grandfather. Thus making Farnsworth his 32x great grandson. At this point however that test did not show this nor did it show Cubert the clone nor does it show his relation to Ignar Mom's and Farnsworth's Love Child. Suggestions?

Farnsworth150
UnrealLegend

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« Reply #1 on: 12-24-2011 08:00 »

Interesting point.
But since Cubert is a clone, it means he has the same DNA as Hubert. The probulator probably wouldn't be able to pick that up.

Can't comment on the whole Igner thing though...  hmpf
...Man this show can get confusing.
coldangel

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« Reply #2 on: 12-24-2011 08:09 »

Cubert hadn't been gestated as of the pilot, and Igner's heritage wasn't known.
UnrealLegend

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« Reply #3 on: 12-24-2011 08:15 »

"Your DNA test shows one living relative."

The results are found by DNA, not what people already know. Igner's heritage not being known is irrelevant.
futurefreak

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« Reply #4 on: 12-24-2011 09:26 »

Wow, interesting thread to come back with after a three year hiatus Farnsworth150 eek . Welcome back!

Unreal: DNA should show that Igner is somewhat related to him though...right?

At any rate, I think this thread fits better in the Re-check/Weird Scenes forum. See ya there!
Inquisitor Hein
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« Reply #5 on: 12-24-2011 10:50 »
« Last Edit on: 12-24-2011 13:07 »

I think that machine can only identiy DNA that has already been officially registered somehow.

With Igner already being around (not appearance, but in-universe wise), the device should have identified him. Cubert -on the other hand- could have been in the clone tank, without the outside world knowing of him. So it's plausible for me he wasn't found.
futz
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« Reply #6 on: 12-24-2011 12:55 »

Fry doesn't necessarily have to be his own grandfather it's mostly a conclusion Prof. Farnsworth jumped to. I've never heard Fry characterized as being super virile and there are other variables. I think they'd have to go back and get some DNA from Fry's dad and Mildred to compare to Fry's to be certain.
x.Bianca.x

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« Reply #7 on: 12-24-2011 14:01 »

Mom paid to conceal the info. She's probably the richest person on earth, of course she could afford to cover it up. Problem solved, thread closed.
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #8 on: 12-24-2011 15:55 »
« Last Edit on: 12-24-2011 16:37 by totalnerduk »

I think that machine can only identify DNA that has already been officially registered somehow.

This. Even knowing somebody's DNA and having it on file is useless if it isn't correctly labelled, too. So Mom could have claimed anybody was the father of Igner and without a family tree to go by, the machine would likely have rejected such a match as an anomaly.

As for Farnsworth being Fry's great great great etc. grandnephew, why would the machine pick up on the fact that he's also his great great great great etc. grandson too? Today's computers would see both possibilities and discard the least likely of the two. Why not machines in the future too? They have a family tree and records to guide them, they pick the logical choice.

DNA matching is not a precise science. It's a series of educated guesses and logical deductions that have a margin of error. If you pick a certain set of splitting enzymes, you can match DNA from a melon to portions of your own DNA. Doesn't mean that the melon is your grandfather. It just means that there's a certain line of code in your genetic blueprint that's doing the same job as a certain line in a melon.

Fry doesn't necessarily have to be his own grandfather it's mostly a conclusion Prof. Farnsworth jumped to.

It's established canon that Fry's unique mental abilities result from his lack of the delta brainwave, which was a direct result of his unique heritage (being his own grandfather). The Nibblonian species are aware of this and are likely responsible for the partial manipulation of events in both directions on Fry's personal timeline. After all, they are very long lived.

The results are found by DNA, not what people already know. Igner's heritage not being known is irrelevant.

DNA is not magic. What we can deduce from it relies heavily on what we already know before we analyse it. It's highly relevant.

Mom paid to conceal the info.

This too.

Problem solved, thread closed.

And finally, this too. Really, this shouldn't be a question people think about for longer than thirty seconds. The answers are kinda obvious, as long as you don't start assuming that computers are all-knowing gods amongst men and that DNA is magic. Those are the two problems that need to be addressed.
futz
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« Reply #9 on: 12-24-2011 16:07 »

Canon? I'm trying to remember where a Nibblonian was the source of that information... or was it someone else advancing that idea as the lack of Delta wave cause. Anyway, it's probably not enough of a canon that it can't be completely ignored in the future. That, and even the Nibblonians aren't all knowing or all powerful.
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #10 on: 12-24-2011 16:15 »

Nibbler talked to Fry about it in "The Why of Fry". He explicitly stated that Fry's missing delta wave was due to his incestuous tryst with Mildred, and hinted that the Nibblonians may have manipulated events to this end in order to produce a being capable of combatting the Brainspawn.

It's canon, set in stone and immutable. It's been built into the fabric of the show since the series was put together, and was one of the core ideas they at some point wanted to show... but were nervous about portraying time travel for a while.

Although the Nibblonians are not all knowing or all powerful, they are manipulative little bastards who have been shaping the destiny of the universe since the beginning. I'm going to trust Lord Nibbler and the pilots of his Kitten-class attack fleet on this one.
Bend-err

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« Reply #11 on: 12-24-2011 16:16 »

They probably figured about that the Delta Wave was caused by Fry being his own grandfather between the episode of Roswell and when they tell him.
After all surely that would have been talked about quite a bit once they were back and Nibbler could have easily overheard it.

Being the smart fellow he is surely he figured that could have caused the Delta Wave malfunction and could have easily done some tests on Fry when he slept, or even knocked him unconscious.

Then after having found out the correlation between those two things he could have easily contacted the other Nibblonians, after all who would notice it really if he was gone for a while during a delivery of the crew?
And even if he couldn't have figured all out himself and just thought might have been a connection he could have still have the other Nibblonians to some research and experiments on that.


[edit] And yeah, as tnuk said, the Nibblonians were more than likely a cause for Fry even sleeping with his granny.
futz
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« Reply #12 on: 12-24-2011 21:33 »

A Nibblonian Conspiracy Theory yet you trust them?
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #13 on: 12-24-2011 23:51 »

If that's the only potential nitpick you have left, I think I can safely ignore the rest of this thread.
Svip

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« Reply #14 on: 12-25-2011 00:11 »

A Nibblonian Conspiracy Theory yet you trust them?

You honestly believe the writers have something else in mind?  There is nothing to suggest (except the Brainspawn[1]) that the Nibblonians are lying.  The only questionable thing they did was hiding the information about why Fry came to the future, but that was mainly for his own good.

I also sincerely doubt that the Nibblonians would risk and/or waste their time by going through with all this with Fry, if what they were saying was not true.

[1] The Brainspawn, however, is a far more untrustworthy source.
UnrealLegend

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« Reply #15 on: 12-25-2011 02:25 »


DNA is not magic. What we can deduce from it relies heavily on what we already know before we analyse it. It's highly relevant.


I'm no scientist, so I'll take your word for it.  smile
futz
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« Reply #16 on: 12-25-2011 04:09 »

Why Fry lacks the Delta Brain Wave shouldn't really matter to the Nibblonians only that Fry lacks it and they can use that for their purposes.
Bend-err

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« Reply #17 on: 12-25-2011 04:16 »

That's like saying "Why the earth rotates around the sun shouldn't really matter to scientists, only that it does and thus supports life".


As long as there are questions being raised intelligent life tries to answer them.
Surely if someone is lacking something as important as the Delta Brain Waves the Nibblonians want to research into the causes of that phenomena.

Imagine something happens to Fry, he's after all regularly going onto dangerous trips across space and not always can someone save him.
Now Fry is dead and the only human able to withstand the Brains is no more, sadly the Nibblonians never tried to investigate into the cause of Fry's difference and now lost a huge help on their side against the brains. Well, too bad, maybe they are lucky again some time way into the future unless the Brains have won till then and all Nibblonians and other life is gone.

But hey, the Nibblonians are actually smart enough to recognize what they have in Fry and that there is always a possibility that Fry could die. So the smart thing to do is to explore why Fry is lacking the Delta Brain Wave in case it was caused by something that could be emulated again in another human.

And even if they do not need to do that, it's always good to have a backup plan. Not to mention that most intelligent beings would just be curious and hungry for knowledge.
futz
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« Reply #18 on: 12-25-2011 05:06 »

You know the only reason the idea exists in the show is as a joke on the "what if you went back in time and killed your grandfather" time travel cliche. I don't think it's anything that couldn't be tossed out with a few lines of dialog. But fine, leave it in. I mean, if incest is that important to you.
Farnsworth150

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« Reply #19 on: 12-25-2011 05:46 »

I didn't mean to offend anyone I was jut a simple curiosity.
UnrealLegend

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« Reply #20 on: 12-25-2011 06:21 »

I didn't mean to offend anyone I was jut a simple curiosity.
I don't think anyone here's offended, we just like arguing about a cartoon. tongue
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #21 on: 12-25-2011 07:23 »

You know the only reason the idea exists in the show is as a joke on the "what if you went back in time and killed your grandfather" time travel cliche. I don't think it's anything that couldn't be tossed out with a few lines of dialog. But fine, leave it in. I mean, if incest is that important to you.

Actually, it's one of the things planned since the beginning. Along with Leela being a mutant and Bender being a lot more human than he realises. The Grandfather Paradox was one of the concepts they wanted to explore, the Brainspawn arc was planned since the pilot episode, the Nibblonian's plan for Fry was written into the series before the character designs were finalised.

Fry always was planned to be his own ancestor, and has always been his own ancestor. The Predestination Paradox was another of the sci-fi ideas that Groening and Cohen were keen to put into the show.

Have you watched any of the commentaries? Have you read interviews with Groening and Cohen? Have you taken a look at the Infosphere? That's how you pick up on this stuff. Sure, it might seem like it's a couple of throwaway jokes if all you've had is the episodes to go on. But when you start to look at the background to those jokes in the context of what the creators intended, it's plain that you're... hmm... let me see...

futz
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« Reply #22 on: 12-25-2011 07:43 »

Bits here and there. I'm just not obsessive about it all.
Svip

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« Reply #23 on: 12-25-2011 12:06 »

And yet you are posting in this thread.
Nibblonian Leader

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« Reply #24 on: 12-25-2011 13:44 »

You know the only reason the idea exists in the show is as a joke on the "what if you went back in time and killed your grandfather" time travel cliche. I don't think it's anything that couldn't be tossed out with a few lines of dialog. But fine, leave it in. I mean, if incest is that important to you.

What, were you expecting some "Butterfly Effect" plot device?
futz
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« Reply #25 on: 12-25-2011 14:30 »

Yes. It doesn't come up much except here and then with maybe with a few medicated people.

No. Not sure how got from that to there.
Solid Gold Bender

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« Reply #26 on: 12-31-2011 03:15 »

You know the only reason the idea exists in the show is as a joke on the "what if you went back in time and killed your grandfather" time travel cliche. I don't think it's anything that couldn't be tossed out with a few lines of dialog. But fine, leave it in. I mean, if incest is that important to you.

No I think it was supposed to be the whole I'm My Own Grandfather paradox.
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