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Author Topic: BWABB goofs  (Read 7685 times)
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winna

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« Reply #40 on: 07-08-2008 19:31 »

That's an even better theory than anything I could suggest.  Shadows left on walls in Hiroshima.
soylentOrange

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #41 on: 07-08-2008 22:05 »

just thought of something.   Yivo says something along the lines of "I looked across eternity and saw the big bang, and I was like, woah, who's that?"  And he also says that he sent his image into the minds of human artists, and that gave them their image of heaven.  Why then does he use the excuse that "I was lonely; I didn't even know there was anyone else" for 'raping' universe A?  Do you think that was a writing goof, or was Yivo even less scrupulous than he seemed to be?
Anarchy_Balsac
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #42 on: 07-08-2008 22:07 »

Both, it seems more than plausible that Yivo would lie to calm an angry mob of 20 quadrillion, but I doubt that was something the writers intended.
futz
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #43 on: 07-08-2008 23:25 »
« Last Edit on: 07-09-2008 00:00 »

Hmmm... Space Case sounds like you're describing a photosensitive material, like a suntan in reverse or photographic plate. Winna you're describing the momentary absence of high temperature scorching from the nuclear detonation (300,000 OC), not light, caused by solid objects such as light posts and people. Not much multiple about them.

One curious behavoir by people while Yivo has his tenticles in them. When Leela reveals the true nature of the tenticles they rise and attack Yivo/Fry while still attached to Yivo. His mind controling abilities seem very limited. Seems people have free will when connected.
winna

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« Reply #44 on: 07-08-2008 23:49 »

It might be similar to a mind meld... as the people can somewhat influence the genticles that are attached to them... and yet at other times the genticles move the people.  I doubt Fry's reaction speeds could help him dodge lasers for example.
km73

Space Pope
****
« Reply #45 on: 07-08-2008 23:59 »

Yeah, that issue came up in another thread, to what extent are people being controlled by Yivo if at all, or are they acting entirely of their own accord? If they are sublimating themselves to him then to what degree is that indicative of their desire for "paradise" or whatever.

A mind meld, that's a good theory. Best of both worlds, sort of.
Xanfor

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« Reply #46 on: 07-09-2008 00:08 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:

His mind controling abilities seem very limited. Seems people have free will when connected.

Shklee wasn't mind controlling them, they were in love with shkler. And just because people often agree and go along with what their lovers want doesn't mean that they don't occasionally have disagreements.
winna

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« Reply #47 on: 07-09-2008 01:37 »

I think it's possible that Yivo had some control over individuals when connected with them.... his genticles did go into their spine.
ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
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« Reply #48 on: 07-09-2008 10:17 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by winna:
[...]his genticles did go into their spine.

Yea, I imagined something that affected the chemicals in the brain (the tentacle was pretty much at the brain stem), neurotransmitters, etc. The mating process would probably involve some sort of euphoria to those who are receiving; not mind-controlling exactly (although literally), but certainly manipulative.

Seymour_My_Hero

Professor
*
« Reply #49 on: 07-11-2008 08:39 »

Alright well I found one:

The duffer robot (as he is referred to in the commentary) changes color repeatedly. First he's brown, then he's silver, then brown, then silver, then finally brown.

Did anybody else notice that?
NastyInThePasty

Professor
*
« Reply #50 on: 07-11-2008 23:18 »

Maybe he just goes from full light to shadow...?
Seymour_My_Hero

Professor
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« Reply #51 on: 07-13-2008 10:42 »

Alright I will give you that one. But I have another very clear mistake.

Yivo says he sent an image of himself to the minds of our artists. Well, earlier in the DVD, he says he didn't even know there was anyone else out there but him. So how did he know to send his image to our artists?
Frisco17

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« Reply #52 on: 07-13-2008 19:57 »
« Last Edit on: 07-13-2008 19:57 »

I tend to go with the theory that shklee was lying about not knowing anyone else existed before shkee met Fry. I mean shklee had just finished lying to the whole universe while he was getting it one with their necks. The impression I got from Yivo was the shklee is no different from people in most ways. That is to say shklee will lie and deceive people when it is in shkler best intrest but is also capable of doing extrodinarily good things too. As far as the "love for every living creature thing goes, I don't think it's as much complete benevolence as it is the fact that Yivo is in esentially a universe. Thus shklee is just in love in the normal sense but on a much larger scale. In this case with another universe. The whole benevolent God like love thing falls apart when shklee kicks everyone out on their ass for something Fry did, which is just more evidence that shklee views the inhabitants of Universe γ.

(It is really difficult to remember to type "shklee" and "shkler" all the time.)
futz
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #53 on: 07-13-2008 23:05 »

Depends how you define a universe. If a universe is not only a collection of matter but also a the defining rules of the reality, then Yivo may well be able to travel at will in our universe's time line. There might be no rules governing over all universes, just a void where they are not.

Might note that Cohen mentions in the commentary that Yivo is enabling everyone in our universe to "make love" with everyone else in our universe at the same time. Although it's sort of vague in the show it's not just everyone in our universe making love with Yivo.
Xanfor

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« Reply #54 on: 07-13-2008 23:07 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by ALequalsGREAT:

 Yea, I imagined something that affected the chemicals in the brain (the tentacle was pretty much at the brain stem), neurotransmitters, etc. The mating process would probably involve some sort of euphoria to those who are receiving; not mind-controlling exactly (although literally), but certainly manipulative.

That's exactly what I said. That is love!

ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
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« Reply #55 on: 07-14-2008 11:46 »

In so many words  big grin
SpaceCase

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« Reply #56 on: 07-14-2008 14:30 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by ALequalsGREAT:
Yea, I imagined something that affected the chemicals in the brain (the tentacle was pretty much at the brain stem), neurotransmitters, etc. The mating process would probably involve some sort of euphoria to those who are receiving; not mind-controlling exactly (although literally), but certainly manipulative.
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
That's exactly what I said. That is love!

Let's see if I have this straight (and please correct me if I don't):
According to our esteemed Xanfor, the condition popularly referred to as "love" is a chemical process in th brain?
Said chemical process may have various transient physical effects such as changes in one's breathing, pulse rate, blood pressure, perspiration, pupil dilation, galvanic skin response, etc., etc.

Is it just me, or does that seem rather demeaning to (arguably) the most sought-after of human feelings?

Using the same model, one might argue that consciousness is merely a chemical process in the brain. I am not so arguing, but t'would seem at least equally as demeaning as the previous.  hmpf
It's "throwing the baby out with the bathwater," as it were.
If anyone needs me I'll be under my rock...
ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
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« Reply #57 on: 07-14-2008 14:57 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SpaceCase:
 Let's see if I have this straight [...]the condition popularly referred to as "love" is a chemical process in th brain?
Said chemical process may have various transient physical effects such as changes in one's breathing, pulse rate, blood pressure, perspiration, pupil dilation, galvanic skin response, etc., etc.

Is it just me, or does that seem rather demeaning to (arguably) the most sought-after of human feelings?

Using the same model, one might argue that consciousness is merely a chemical process in the brain. I am not so arguing, but t'would seem at least equally as demeaning as the previous.   hmpf
It's "throwing the baby out with the bathwater," as it were.
If anyone needs me I'll be under my rock...

-Mushy conjecture ahead!-
I think the Yivo example was just a chemical process and was proven ultimately hollow when Fry, despite being in the "paradise" imagined by humanity for millenia, was still thinking about his friend Bender, whom he loved in his own way.
Having had a touch of experience in Eastern philosophy (i.e. 1 college class) it is easier for me to imagine the experiences of life broken down into their components (chemical or otherwise), and the consciousness argument is the big one for most believers (anyone want to start a new thread to discuss it?  smile ) .
What Xan said was technically correct (the best kind), but certainly not all there is- it just worked for Yivo.
I think that all made sense  roll eyes 
Xanfor

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« Reply #58 on: 07-14-2008 22:03 »
« Last Edit on: 07-14-2008 22:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SpaceCase:


Let's see if I have this straight (and please correct me if I don't):
According to our esteemed Xanfor, the condition popularly referred to as "love" is a chemical process in th brain?

Using the same model, one might argue that consciousness is merely a chemical process in the brain.

It certainly is. Allow me to explain. A soul is the essence of a person, but it is not a person in and of itself. A person consists of a soul in addition to a form of manifestation and its accompanying memories. A soul itself has no consciousness on its own, it needs form in which to perceive its environment and a means of remembering what it has perceived in the past. And this form also renders it feelings.

Allow me to now illustrate the basis for what I have just said.

Every decision one makes is based on the outcome of all decisions one has made in the past. You did A, and B happened, therefore, if you want something very much like B to happen, you must do something very much like A. And it gets even more complex; indeed, if one decides to take chaos theory into account, it can and should be argued that every choice we make is influenced by every other choice we have ever made. So, imagine these following decisions, which someone who shall remain nameless made in order alphabetical: A, B, C, D, and E. Now, s/he makes another decision, F. Since every decision is based on the ones before it:

A + B + C + D + E = F1

But suppose we were to erase this person's memory of making the decisions B, C, D. This is possible, as it is scientifically accepted that memories are stored within the cerebellum. So we remove the biochemicals which are storing those particular memories, or reset them to their original states, or however. Now, we have:

A + E = F2

And F1 ≠ F2

If the person is aware that their memory has been erased, or their thinking patterns are "conditioned" into think along the same lines as before (for whatever reason, I'm winging this), or if we accept that the soul has memory of its own, rational thinking would be:

A + X + E = F3

If we accept the fact that soul has memory, then no matter how we effect the neurons in the brain, we could never rid the mind of B, C, and D. At worst, all we could do is replace the individual B, C and D with their sum, X, which the soul would always have. Which would then make F3 = F1. But if we accept that, then how do we explain amnesia? We know that the brain is at fault for that particualr type of memory loss... But is it the soul's fault as well that its victims don't even have X?

So memory, in a human's case, is dependent on the physical form of the body. Now, let's take this a step further and argue the much simpler proposition that perception is also dependant on a physical form. Suppose that for some reason you decide to pull a Harrison Wintergreen, either of your own free will or as an ill-fated attempt to get me to finish this post quicker, and that through a certain mixture of drugs and magic spells, you manage to cut off all sensory input to your brain. Simple enough. But are you still conscious?

Yes, yes you are. I'm getting to that.

Now suppose I sneak up on you while you're in this state and remove your brain, placing it in a life support system and programming a supercomputer to provide to your brain the proper impulses which makes it perceive a virtual world, a world in which you still have your own body. The ol' "brain in a vat" thought experiment. Now, suppose I do this to...  Spock as well. Yes, Spock. I steal Spock's brain and put it in a vat. Very original. I connect him up the virtual world as well. You two become fast friends.

Now, at some point, while cackling evilly about the genius of my scheme, I am interrupted by an unexpected phone call from some journalist named Sarah Jane. She says she'd like to interview me for an article she's writing on certified crackpots, and I agree 'cause I tell her I happen to know some. Meanwhile, in the virtual world, you and Spock have now become best buddies. After my interview with Sarah, we begin swapping tales of universal heroism and also become best buddies.

Are the feelings of friendship I now have for Sarah Jane any more meaningful than the feelings of friendship you have for Spock?

No. Of course not. They're the same. Suppose I take Spock's and yours braincells' and one by one replace them with electrical ones. Would that change anything? Certainly not. You'd still be you, at what point would you have "died"? Your soul, I fear, is now entirely contained within a mechanical device. Now, I take the individual electronic cells and turn their functions over to another supercomputer, one by one. You're now a program. A program in a machine. And you're still you! You still have your soul, you never had an opportunity to lose it!

The feelings you have for Spock still exist, and are just as real as the ones I have for Sarah Jane. In my case, they are "merely a chemical process in the brain", in your case they are merely 'a variable processed by the computer'. But they are equal. If I delete you from the hard drive, you would die. If I drive a stake through my heart, cut off my head and stuff my mouth with garlic, I would die. The actions are the same and equal. And all these feelings and actions are functions of "merely" physical processes.

But it's not demeaning in any way. God has provided us with our brilliantly designed biological forms in order for our souls to experience life in this wonderful world. We'll have others in heaven, certainly... But a soul without form in which to perceive its environment, without a means of remembering what it has perceived in the past, without a consciousness for its own... That is the true meaning of Hell.



  • Memories are stored in the brain, not the soul.
  • Perceptions are a function of the brain, not the soul.
  • Feelings are a function of the brain, not the soul.
  • The brain is the residence of the soul, but you can do some high-tech redecorating.
  • Life is very precious and designed for maximum appreciation of feelings in this world.
  • We shouldn't tinker with it to the extent where pressing delete could directly constitute murder.
  • Xanfor loves you all very much, because you're all great people.
futz
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #59 on: 07-14-2008 22:17 »

No soul = no funk.
No funk = crappy tunes.
Frisco17

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« Reply #60 on: 07-14-2008 23:49 »



Not only is that amazing in a number of ways but it's also proof that Xanfor isn't of this world. Which means I was right all along. One down, three to go.

  • Xanfor
  • Coldangel_1
  • Archonix
  • JBERGES
ALequalsGREAT

Starship Captain
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« Reply #61 on: 07-15-2008 12:12 »
« Last Edit on: 07-15-2008 12:12 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
 [...]

I think everything you said makes sense, and I agree with the analysis; I had never thought of it in such depth before so thanks for extrapolating!
Nobody follows Buddhist thought then?  big grin
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #62 on: 07-15-2008 14:53 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by SpaceCase:
... According to our esteemed Xanfor, the condition popularly referred to as "love" is a chemical process in th brain?

... does that seem rather demeaning to (arguably) the most sought-after of human feelings?

... It's "throwing the baby out with the bathwater," as it were.
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
It certainly is.
WHICH?  laff
I kid, I kid...
I presume you’re agreeing that love is a chemical process in the brain.
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
... A soul is the essence of a person, but it is not a person in and of itself.
Some would argue there is no such thing as a soul - a discussion I'm not eager to have.
If by “soul” you mean that part of a person that thinks, feels, remembers...
Hmm...
If I may make an analogy to a computer, the brain is the ‘hardware’ on or in which the mind or ‘software’ operates.
In one; as coded electric pulses coursing through semiconductor junctions; in the other as a complex mix of neural impulses, neurotransmitters diffusing across synaptic gaps, and so on.
If by “soul” you mean the ‘software’ running in or on the brain, I have a hard time disagreeing.

Otherwise,

WELL SAID!

Ross Perot said, “... The Devil’s in the details.”
Here the devil is in the lack of details that you - my esteemed Xanfor - have so adroitly corrected.
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
  laff
Fortunately for me, I've never claimed to be of terrestrial origin...
Or for that matter Human...
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #63 on: 07-15-2008 17:32 »

Great now I have to open another file.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #64 on: 07-16-2008 11:45 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frisco17:
Great now I have to open another file.
[Tim 'The Toolman' Taylor]
Eerrhh?
[/TT]

Did I miss something?  confused
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #65 on: 07-16-2008 20:05 »

You forgot about my files of evidence meant to prove that Xanfor, Coldy, Archonix and JBERGES aren't human, didn't you. Re-read your last post and you'll see why I need to open yet another file.
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #66 on: 07-16-2008 23:15 »

Anyone else notice what's odd about the population of the Globetrotter Planet.

Anarchy_Balsac
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #67 on: 07-17-2008 00:05 »

Yes, I actually noted it on theinfosphere some time back.
soylentOrange

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #68 on: 07-17-2008 08:56 »

Well, they are a people who seemingly do nothing but play basketball.  They women must have evolved to be indistinguishable from the men.  I mean, what good is a globe trotter that cant dunk?
Vanguard20

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #69 on: 07-17-2008 10:23 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Anyone else notice what's odd about the population of the Globetrotter Planet.



Gay Globetrotters?
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #70 on: 07-17-2008 12:04 »
« Last Edit on: 07-17-2008 12:04 »

    Quote
    Originally posted by Frisco17:
    You forgot about my files of evidence meant to prove that Xanfor, Coldy, Archonix and JBERGES aren't human, didn't you[?]
    Ahh... no, actually not:
    To forget implies that sometime previous I actually knew about them...
       hmpf

    ETA:

     
    Quote
    Originally posted by futz:
    Anyone else notice what's odd about the population of the Globetrotter Planet.

    Quote
    Originally posted by Vanguard20:
    Gay Globetrotters?
    In no particular order:
    • Sex-segregated leagues planets.
    • Sex-segregated escalators.
    • A group of male players is passing by at the moment.
    • Gynophobia*.
    And, of course:
    • Gay.
    I find it odd that the Greek prefix used to denote things feminine, sounds like "guy."
    [/list]
    hobbitboy

    Sir Rank-a-Lot
    Urban Legend
    ***
    « Reply #71 on: 07-18-2008 05:10 »
    « Last Edit on: 07-18-2008 05:10 »

    Or, maybe the females have adapted to living in the ocean (if that is what the lighter shaded areas represent), where their inability to dunk is not an impediment, and are currently ascending via that escalator which seems to reach down to the water.

    [Zoidberg]Perhaps, why not.[/Zoidberg]

    Don't hate me, Trinity.  I'm just the messenger.
    SpaceCase

    Liquid Emperor
    **
    « Reply #72 on: 07-18-2008 12:20 »

     
    Quote
    Originally posted by hobbitboy:
    Or, maybe the females have adapted to living in the ocean (if that is what the lighter shaded areas represent)...
    Living in a brown ocean?  eek

    YECCHA!

    [*Gag!*]
    [*Retch!*]
    [*Hurk!*]


      wink
    futz
    Liquid Emperor
    **
    « Reply #73 on: 07-18-2008 12:46 »

    Gatoraid oceans?
    Bear

    Urban Legend
    ***
    « Reply #74 on: 07-18-2008 16:39 »

    Hey, it could happen. [/Reese's Puffs Commercial]
    Frisco17

    DOOP Secretary
    *
    « Reply #75 on: 07-18-2008 22:13 »

     
    Quote
    Originally posted by SpaceCase:
    To forget implies that sometime previous I actually knew about them...

    I've mentioned it like a hundred times. You just need to pay more attention.

    SC: 0
    Frisco: 1

     laff laff laff laff
    SpaceCase

    Liquid Emperor
    **
    « Reply #76 on: 07-19-2008 01:54 »

     
    Quote
    Originally posted by Frisco17:
    I've mentioned it like a hundred times.
    Uh huh.
    So, you've been counting.
    Quote
    Originally posted by Frisco17:
    You just need to pay more attention.
    I have higher priority uses for my time than to keep track of every little thing that happens on an internet message board.
    Xanfor

    DOOP Secretary
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    « Reply #77 on: 07-19-2008 20:46 »

      This is bordering on hostility. Quit it, or I'll turn the internet right around.

      Now...

       
    Quote
    Originally posted by SpaceCase:

    In no particular order:
    • Sex-segregated leagues planets.
    • Sex-segregated escalators.
    • A group of male players is passing by at the moment.
    • Gynophobia*.
    And, of course:
    • Gay.

    All of these theories presuppose that not only do there happen to be female Globetrotters, but that the planet we can see there is the Globetrotter Homeworld. They're all holding basketballs, perhaps it's really the planet Naismith, where the Globetrotters actually compete. And they've just finished their last planetbound game, and are now off to that great basketball court in the sky...

    Incidently, I don't get how there being a bunch of men on the same elevator implies they could be gay. Am I missing something?
    futz
    Liquid Emperor
    **
    « Reply #78 on: 07-19-2008 21:40 »

    Except they all have the same uniform on making for a very large team in basketball.

    Ah, no, no you're not missing a thing. How one Yivos is a personal choice.
    Frisco17

    DOOP Secretary
    *
    « Reply #79 on: 07-19-2008 22:52 »

     
    Quote
    Originally posted by futz:
    Ah, no, no you're not missing a thing. How one Yivos is a personal choice.

    To Yivo is now officially a verb. Congratulations futz.
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