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Author Topic: Bender's Big Score Time Para-fauxes (spoilers)  (Read 23380 times)
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Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #80 on: 12-18-2007 18:35 »
« Last Edit on: 12-18-2007 18:35 »

This won't be the first time I've said this, but tnuk is right. I think it was just a secret of time travel they found on Fry's ass.

Although could something of the time sphere's nature explain why only Nibbler's shadow appears in the cryrogenics lab for the first few seasons, and Fry's only appears later?

TOTPDalek!



Vanguard20

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #81 on: 12-21-2007 09:50 »

Maybe when the time-duplicate dies or is killed, the history it came from is re-set. My theory is, you can only go back in time if the thing that you did in the past has allready happened. So, Fry could go to 1947 and shag his nan because he had allready done that. And Bender could blow up NNY in 2309 because he had allready done that.
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #82 on: 12-21-2007 21:22 »

Exactlly there is not first time they went back and did stuff because is was always like that or turned out the same.

(See my theory a page or two back.)
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #83 on: 12-24-2007 07:52 »

OK. No more posts from me in this thread.

Time travel is so simple compared to the myriad ways in which people fail to understand causality and the implications of time travel.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #84 on: 12-24-2007 15:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by totalnerduk:
 But not as neatly as straightforward time travel does. Y'know, the normal, straightforward paradox-inducing time travel that we get in all the regular instances of time travel. Which I think is what happened there. The time sphere is a different kind of time travel, as I see it. This type of time travel causes divergent time lines rather than causality loops. There are many ways to skin a cat, and many quantum states to the universe.

This is generally how I thought about it, and as I think about time travel as well.  There being many methods to achieve similar results.
futz
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #85 on: 12-24-2007 22:48 »

If both time and space are infinite, little poots in continuums caused by life forms may have no significance to nature. Sort of like farting in a hurricane.
bend_her

Professor
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« Reply #86 on: 01-01-2008 11:11 »

OK, this isn't exactly about the time travel aspect, but why didn't Lars warn Fry and the others not to trust the Nudars when he and Dr. Goodnsexy were putting Hermes' head in a jar? He clearly knew about it from his experience in the past/future, and he knew that they'd scam ownership of PE from Farnsworth.
FryFangirlLisa

Bending Unit
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« Reply #87 on: 01-01-2008 11:50 »
« Last Edit on: 01-01-2008 11:50 »

That's exactly what I was wondering about.

My theory for that is that particular Lars was at the beginning was actually a different person and not Fry.  I mean, when you think about it, it's the only way that part of the movie makes sense (otherwise, there would be two Lars, which doesn't make sense).


However, since Fry wanted to go back in time for pizza, he met himself from an hour earlier (Fry/Lars) - causing the second Fry to become Lars, because the original Fry had used the time code (although, the second Fry didn't realize he was Lars until Bender tried to kill him).

Also, an interesting thing to note is that, if Bender hadn't tried to kill Fry (Lars), then it's possible Fry still could've had the idea to freeze himself and go back to the regular timeline.  If he had done this, then there definitely would've been two Fry's (Fry, and an older Fry).  However, because Fry used the time code and met up with his past self, and also because Bender tried to kill the second Fry (Lars) - that's how he became Lars.

And by the way, I consider Lars not to truly be Fry, since his personality is very different from Fry's.
Pitt Clemens

Urban Legend
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« Reply #88 on: 01-01-2008 15:53 »

Bender licks the tattoo, and sticks it on fry's ass, but because he did that, wouldn't the tattoo be a mirror image of the original tattoo? If that were the case, wouldn't that change the timeline, so that when Bender goes back the tattoo is restored to it's normal configuration, and then that adjust the timeline so that Bender again reverses the configuration, and so on and so forth?
THM

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #89 on: 01-01-2008 18:54 »
« Last Edit on: 01-02-2008 00:00 »

No, the tattoo is still facing the right way, since Bender licked the back of the 'strip', and attached it to Fry's butt face-up.

As for Fryrish, well, there's no reason to believe that Fry(Lars) didn't give Fry Jnr. the clover between 2000 and 2010. More importantly, all this timeline does is move his situation twelve years forward; he still disappears in mysterious circumstances.

By that I mean: his folks know where he is until 2010, when he goes on a two-year trip to the Arctic - but they don't know immediately when he returns, as he might not have been able to/thought about contacting his family while on the boat. But if they did any kind of search (though their not wanting to search so as not to waste taxpayers' funds might still have held), they'd know that the ship docked in ONY harbour, and that he was seen leaving the boat, and then the harbour in a taxi. He arrives at his home (the taxi driver could confirm this), which moments later erupts into flame, and then explodes. No body is found.

Without the search, we still have a mysterious disappearance; according to his family, he never comes back from the Arctic, and no body is found. It does affect things with Seymour (although by 2012, Seymour does look pretty much the way he did at the end of JB), though he might very well have spent 2010-2012 pining for Fry anyhow.

I do have one question, though; right at the end, Bender invites all his time-duplicates up then, instead of 'when they were logically supposed to' appear. But by that point, hadn't all the duplicates already served their purpose, seeing as how they'd delivered all the treasures to the scammers? (If not, and TuxBender emerged before(?) the scammers had arrived, since none of their stuff is around, how would Fry, or indeed anyone, know about the time code or any of it?) 

That's about the only time-related part that still confuses me.     confused

EDIT: Having re-read this, and realised that Bender made his duplicates wait until the end, I have concluded that I'm a moron.   smile

However, wouldn't people (namely, the scammers) have noticed that no Bender had returned? Or am I overthinking things?

'Naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies!'

- Justice Snoop Dogg, Into the Wild Green Yonder
Prowla RX7

Starship Captain
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« Reply #90 on: 01-04-2008 04:01 »

My only reasonable explanation for Fry's tattoo is Nibbler possibly removing the tattoo upon first seeing Fry.  When Earth was endangered of being taken over by the brains, Nibbler needed a place to hide the tattoo, and Fry is invisible to the Brains.   But of course I'm probably just making up a whole bunch of garbage here that doesn't make sense and opens up to more questions.  I don't think Bender's lick and slap a tattoo would stay permanent on fry's ass for 8 years, so this makes me think of that explanation.
Pitt Clemens

Urban Legend
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« Reply #91 on: 01-04-2008 13:25 »

How'd the original tattoo get drawn?
bobbot

Bending Unit
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« Reply #92 on: 01-04-2008 14:13 »
« Last Edit on: 01-04-2008 14:13 »

First, I think that the tattoo originates when Bender visits God, since the timesphere itself is shown as eminating from God.  Being God he no doubt put the tattoo on Bender, sort of like a Six Flags bumper sticker, who proceeded to stick it on Fry's ass while they were room mates. Fry, being none to careful with his personal hygiene, failed to wash his ass thorughly enough to remove it leaving it for the nudist aliens to find with their all sensing sprungers.  As to the ability for a lick and stick tattoo staying in place the tattoo that Bender stuck on Fry's ass was a ripped off piece of Lar's ass.  Fry and Lars being the same person considering the caustic nature of robo saliva this caused an injury Fry's ass so that this piece of what was essentially Fry's own flesh to heal without rejection and became part of his ass.
THM

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #93 on: 01-04-2008 14:25 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Pitt Clemens:
How'd the original tattoo get drawn?

I...have no idea.  smile

Seriously, though, it might be on the commentary.


'Naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies!'

- Justice Snoop Dogg, Into the Wild Green Yonder
PMD

Crustacean
*
« Reply #94 on: 01-04-2008 18:10 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by bobbot:
First, I think that the tattoo originates when Bender visits God, since the timesphere itself is shown as eminating from God.  Being God he no doubt put the tattoo on Bender, sort of like a Six Flags bumper sticker, who proceeded to stick it on Fry's ass while they were room mates. Fry, being none to careful with his personal hygiene, failed to wash his ass thorughly enough to remove it leaving it for the nudist aliens to find with their all sensing sprungers.  As to the ability for a lick and stick tattoo staying in place the tattoo that Bender stuck on Fry's ass was a ripped off piece of Lar's ass.  Fry and Lars being the same person considering the caustic nature of robo saliva this caused an injury Fry's ass so that this piece of what was essentially Fry's own flesh to heal without rejection and became part of his ass.

The episode you're talking about is Godfellas   where Bender meets God. That was one of the last episodes in Season 3. So if that theory is correct. Fry's ass would have to have not been shown since that episode to the movie.
Quarma

Crustacean
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« Reply #95 on: 01-04-2008 19:21 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FryFangirlLisa:
That's exactly what I was wondering about.

My theory for that is that particular Lars was at the beginning was actually a different person and not Fry.  I mean, when you think about it, it's the only way that part of the movie makes sense (otherwise, there would be two Lars, which doesn't make sense).


However, since Fry wanted to go back in time for pizza, he met himself from an hour earlier (Fry/Lars) - causing the second Fry to become Lars, because the original Fry had used the time code (although, the second Fry didn't realize he was Lars until Bender tried to kill him).

Also, an interesting thing to note is that, if Bender hadn't tried to kill Fry (Lars), then it's possible Fry still could've had the idea to freeze himself and go back to the regular timeline.  If he had done this, then there definitely would've been two Fry's (Fry, and an older Fry).  However, because Fry used the time code and met up with his past self, and also because Bender tried to kill the second Fry (Lars) - that's how he became Lars.

And by the way, I consider Lars not to truly be Fry, since his personality is very different from Fry's.

I can solve your Fry-and-Lars-Are-Not-One Thing with this: maybe Lars didn't warn them about Nudar because that would cause him to cease to exist. When they first notice the time tattoo, the Professor tells them it's no big deal, and is ignored until the scammers sense the information. If he warned them not to trust Nudar, they would never give the tattoo a second glance, looking for any information. Therefore, th time code would never be used, and he would never be. Also, he probably used a different personality so Leela would never notice the similiarities. Leela only liked Fry in "Parasite Lost" because he was a different Fry. So maybe Lars remembered this and tried not being himself.

Also, why do you think ther are two Lars? There's only two Frys: Fry A, who gets frozen, wakes up in 2999, goes back in time in 3007, freezes himself in 2000, and wakes up in 3007. And Fry B, who gets frozen in 2000, wakes up in 2999, goes back in time in 3007, becomes Lars and freezes himself in 2012, awakens in 3002, and dies in 3007. There is no way for there to be two Lars or Frys by the end of this. Only one Lars and one Fry.
Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #96 on: 01-04-2008 20:00 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by THM:
 I...have no idea.   smile
Seriously, though, it might be on the commentary.

I just watched the comentary for the first time today. They don't even seem to know where it came from. My theory is that it'll be explained in one of the other movies.
FryFangirlLisa

Bending Unit
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« Reply #97 on: 01-05-2008 06:38 »
« Last Edit on: 01-05-2008 06:38 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by Quarma:
 I can solve your Fry-and-Lars-Are-Not-One Thing with this: maybe Lars didn't warn them about Nudar because that would cause him to cease to exist. When they first notice the time tattoo, the Professor tells them it's no big deal, and is ignored until the scammers sense the information. If he warned them not to trust Nudar, they would never give the tattoo a second glance, looking for any information. Therefore, th time code would never be used, and he would never be. Also, he probably used a different personality so Leela would never notice the similiarities. Leela only liked Fry in "Parasite Lost" because he was a different Fry. So maybe Lars remembered this and tried not being himself.

Also, why do you think ther are two Lars? There's only two Frys: Fry A, who gets frozen, wakes up in 2999, goes back in time in 3007, freezes himself in 2000, and wakes up in 3007. And Fry B, who gets frozen in 2000, wakes up in 2999, goes back in time in 3007, becomes Lars and freezes himself in 2012, awakens in 3002, and dies in 3007. There is no way for there to be two Lars or Frys by the end of this. Only one Lars and one Fry.
Well, what you said there makes sense.  ^^

And I agree with everything, except the last part.


It's very confusing.  Because at the beginning of the movie, how could Lars even exist?

Remember, that Fry hadn't used the time code at this particular time.  In fact, it wasn't until Fry used the time code a second time (to go back to one-hour-ago), that he met his "earlier" self and therefore, that's how his duplicate was created (Lars).


So anyway, you can only explain this in two ways. 

Either theory A:  Lars (at the beginning) is actually a different person and not Fry.  But somehow, he later becomes Fry because of Bender trying to kill him and other reasons (maybe fate, like loving Leela or something). 

OR

Theory B:  Lars at the beginning of the movie is Fry, but doesn't want to warn anyone about the scammers and the time sphere for fear that he won't exist.  (actually, if that really is the case - then I guess the "jumping around" that the writers did with the timelines confused me a lot, lol)
Quarma

Crustacean
*
« Reply #98 on: 01-05-2008 09:52 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FryFangirlLisa:
    Well, what you said there makes sense.  ^^

And I agree with everything, except the last part.


It's very confusing.  Because at the beginning of the movie, how could Lars even exist?

Remember, that Fry hadn't used the time code at this particular time.  In fact, it wasn't until Fry used the time code a second time (to go back to one-hour-ago), that he met his "earlier" self and therefore, that's how his duplicate was created (Lars).


So anyway, you can only explain this in two ways. 

Either theory A:  Lars (at the beginning) is actually a different person and not Fry.  But somehow, he later becomes Fry because of Bender trying to kill him and other reasons (maybe fate, like loving Leela or something). 

OR

Theory B:  Lars at the beginning of the movie is Fry, but doesn't want to warn anyone about the scammers and the time sphere for fear that he won't exist.  (actually, if that really is the case - then I guess the "jumping around" that the writers did with the timelines confused me a lot, lol)

Dude, if Bender from the end of the movie could appear in the middle, then Lars who wasn't created until the near end of the movie could appear in the beginning. Theory B is more sensible. Theory A doesn't make sense to me. That's like saying Fry originally wasn't his grandfather, and somehow became him later: kind of impossible.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #99 on: 01-05-2008 11:12 »

You're not all thinking five-dimensionally!
Quarma

Crustacean
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« Reply #100 on: 01-05-2008 12:19 »

...five-dimensionally? You mean like alternate timelines?
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #101 on: 01-05-2008 12:38 »

Blimey, I knew I forgot to post something!

Here's my time-sphere theory.

At least, it's somewhere in there, I'm sure...
Quarma

Crustacean
*
« Reply #102 on: 01-05-2008 15:08 »

Sweet Koopas of Honduras!! That's some brilliant ideas you have there!!
FryFangirlLisa

Bending Unit
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« Reply #103 on: 01-05-2008 15:22 »
« Last Edit on: 01-05-2008 15:22 »

Wow!

I've gotta say, I agree with EVERYTHING you said there, Xanfor!    smile


That was a well done post, indeed. 

You answered all the questions I had about BBS, and you also answered other questions I hadn't thought of.  Congrats!
THM

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #104 on: 01-05-2008 21:17 »

That is a good explanation. But my question stands, though; if the Bender from the end (TuxBender) got all the other Benders to stay down in the caverns until the 'end', wouldn't that have changed things sooner  than the end of the story?

'Naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies!'

- Justice Snoop Dogg, Into the Wild Green Yonder
Quarma

Crustacean
*
« Reply #105 on: 01-06-2008 11:42 »

That's what tears the universe athunder. It's made like that intentionally.
iceiwynd

Bending Unit
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« Reply #106 on: 01-06-2008 14:24 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by THM:
That is a good explanation. But my question stands, though; if the Bender from the end (TuxBender) got all the other Benders to stay down in the caverns until the 'end', wouldn't that have changed things sooner  than the end of the story?


Which wouldn't make sense for us viewing it. It's like in, say, Fryrish - Yancy names his kid after Fry because he misses his brother. When that episode originally aired, there was no knowledge of Fry being around in the past at that time. It's altered once we seen in Bender's Big Score a little, though. But the episode itself still stands alone and we still see the original outcome before the time change. The same applies to stuff in Bender's Big Score.

There's probably some reasoning on how each timeline could be a separate parallel universe, and so the one where Bender didn't have the other Benders stay with him would continue on as normal until Bender goes back in time, puts the tattoo on Fry's ass, and now this is something different entirely, but it's the universe we follow now. But the original one still exists and still happened, just this other case of time travel caused it to be overlooked?

I don't think that made any sense. Oh well.
THM

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #107 on: 01-06-2008 15:51 »
« Last Edit on: 01-06-2008 15:51 »

Quarma, iciewynd: Thanks; I think that answers my question. It's a scifi series, but it is a comedy, too - total accuracy or sense isn't necessary.   big grin

'Naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies!'

- Justice Snoop Dogg, Into the Wild Green Yonder
km73

Space Pope
****
« Reply #108 on: 01-06-2008 23:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Quarma:
 Dude, if Bender from the end of the movie could appear in the middle, then Lars who wasn't created until the near end of the movie could appear in the beginning.

Yeah, that's the theory with scenes in the movie jumping around between all the different timelines. Events aren't always shown in a linear fashion; it's as if the viewers are dropped into different points in time.

THM

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #109 on: 01-10-2008 21:37 »
« Last Edit on: 01-10-2008 21:37 »

Something's just occurred to me:

Hermes gets Bender to go back and get a 'copy' of his body. But seeing as there'd only been one of Hermes before all the time-travelling malarky, wouldn't that mean that Bender had to kill Hermes (since JarHermes didn't care what happened to the body's head) to get the body, thus killing Hermes and making a search for a body moot? And more importantly, (ignoring the idea of parallel universes created by altering time for the moment) wouldn't that cause a pretty huge paradox? (Or would that just mean he's been in that jar longer than the limbo competition?) I.e., Hermes losing his body to Bender because he got Bender to get his body because he lost it.

'Naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies!'

- Justice Snoop Dogg, Into the Wild Green Yonder
Quarma

Crustacean
*
« Reply #110 on: 01-10-2008 21:48 »

Well, I assume that, since Bender went back in time, there was an alternate Bender, and since he did something to Past-Hermes, this created an alternate Hermes, since the self-correcting time code prevents the killing future selves.
THM

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #111 on: 01-11-2008 14:31 »
« Last Edit on: 01-11-2008 14:31 »

I...I get it, I think. Bender might've cloned(?) Hermes; he'd realise that if Hermes were dead, he wouldn't be able to pay, so he'd need to do something that would let the original and the 'new body' exist at the same time. (He wouldn't understand or care about time paradoxes, which with this code wouldn't allow anyhow, but he'd clue into losing payment.) Unless the code somehow provided a body (or maybe GalaxyGod did).

Does any of that make sense?    confused

'Naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies, naked ladies!'

- Justice Snoop Dogg, Into the Wild Green Yonder
gaschief

Professor
*
« Reply #112 on: 01-29-2008 15:47 »
« Last Edit on: 01-29-2008 15:47 »

I need to view BBS a few more times to get my head round the particulars of the 4 dimensional plot, however I would like to throw in a general idea about time travel the may go someway to explaining some of the anomalies that have been flagged up.
When someone travels away from the current time in this (our universe), arguably they arive at a point in the past or future of this reality, as in the space and time (history) of the present universe, however at that point where the time traveller arrives, they diverge along another 4 dimensional path consisting of the time and space and events of a new universe, arguably with it's own set of events distinct from those in our original universe.
The events which would have occured in our original universe still occur, the arrival of the time traveller having no effect on our universe. In the other divergent universe a whole new set of causes and effects takes place.
Therefore arguably the original Futurama episodes remain en-tact, and will always remain en-tact, whilst the new plotlines created by the event of BBS can happily co-exist in the new divergent universe(s).

I would add as well, as someone suggested futher back in this thread that their may be different types of time travel utilised in futurama, that perhaps the type experienced in BBS was as above, with the divergent universe idea, whereas in Roswell that ends well, the more conventional form of time travel comfined purely to our own 4 dimensional universe takes place and events in the past DO effect events in our future, rather than in the future of the divergent universe(s) formed out of the time travel phenomenon.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #113 on: 01-29-2008 17:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by gaschief:
... When someone travels away from the current time in this (our universe)... at that point where the time traveller arrives, they diverge along another 4 dimensional path...
In other words, another universe, timeline, reality, or whatever you want to call it splits from the original at that event.
This idea was used by Larry Niven in “All the Myriad Ways.” While, strictly speaking, it isn’t used as a time-travel mechanism, it’s the same principle.
Quote
Originally posted by gaschief:
... Therefore arguably the original Futurama episodes remain en-tact, and will always remain en-tact, whilst the new plotlines created by the event of BBS can happily co-exist in the new divergent universe(s).
Every time there’s an event resulting in an apparent paradox due to an artifact of time-travel, there is no such paradox because the universe spacetime splits to accommodate the changes?
Huh.
So that means there’s a-hundred-thirty-seven (or whatever) slightly different flavors of the Futurama universe Futurama-verse ‘Rama-verse resulting from the temporal hijinks of BBS?

No wonder there’s a rip in the sky...
Quote
Originally posted by gaschief:
I would add as well, as someone suggested futher back in this thread that their may be different types of time travel utilised in futurama...
Wikipedia seems to agree – at least about there being different kinds of time travel.
I hope the warranty on my brain covers this sorta’ thing...
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #114 on: 01-29-2008 17:51 »

I also agree with the different types of time travel theory, although my version only requires one fifth-dimensional path...
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #115 on: 01-30-2008 13:36 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Xanfor:
I also agree with the different types of time travel theory, although my version only requires one fifth-dimensional path...
Five dim- [*Ow!*]
[SC massages sides of own head]
My brain hurts...
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #116 on: 01-31-2008 07:57 »

All this sounds terribly familiar to me. Maybe because I said it a page ago, and even went to the trouble of drawing a diagram?
NastyInThePasty

Professor
*
« Reply #117 on: 02-05-2008 14:05 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by PazuzuJr:
and also have't we seen the professor's back before? I'm sure he didn't have his 'ink.'   tongue

Well, since two years (roughly) passed between the end of the series and Bender's Big Score, you can assume that the Professor got his "Thug Life" tattoo during that time period.  cool
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #118 on: 02-05-2008 20:03 »

Yes, only a 5th dimension.

SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #119 on: 02-05-2008 23:17 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by futz:
Yes, only a 5th dimension.

So, to disentangle all of this we must use dimensional analysislaff
I'll just... ooze back out under the door now...
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