Bender's Big Score Time Para-fauxes (spoilers)

[Reply #160 on:]

That's pretty much it I think. Excellent job with the layman's representation futz.

[Reply #161 on:]

Thanks for both of your input, futz and km73! You both really know a lot about "Bender's Big Score"'s doom concept. I can't say I really don't have any questions about it anymore, and if anything else comes up, and I think "Into the Wild Green Yonder" is supposed to address almost everything. I must add that futz did a fantastic job on the diagram. It really shows that you are dedicated to the series. I also must admire how you made the colors of Fry's and Lar's squares to match the color of their head (mainly Lars, because he's bald). But yes, thank you both for your time, efforts, and patience.

[Reply #162 on:]

 

Originally posted by Zamorano:
Also, I like to know where did the original tattoo come from? There must be a starting point?

I seem to recall we had a similar discussion about Fry's Y chromosome.
I'm under the impression both arose as an artifact of time-travel. That is, effects without causes.
   

Theres a second causality loop casualty in the case of the name Lars Fillmore: where does it come from? The first we hear of it is when Lars introduces himself, and later duplicate Fry learns that he is Lars and adopts the name... so the name is caught in a causality loop like his Y chromosome, it exists but it has no origin.

Now if that ain't a paradox, I don't know what is.

[Reply #163 on:]

Thanks for both of your input, futz and km73! You both really know a lot about "Bender's Big Score"'s doom concept.

Um... a very belated "you're welcome", I guess.

**

I did wonder somewhat where Fry got the name 'Lars' from, or why he decided to
use that. Fillmore is a pun on filling jars, but whence Lars?

[Reply #164 on:]

It seemed to me that both Fry's creation of Lars was a causal loop. Fry never created him. He knows Lars, then realizes he is Lars, but never makes any decisions about who Lars is or should be, he just bases it off of his experiences with Lars that haven't happened yet. And from an even further philosophical standpoint, due to temporal continuity, whatever Fry does as Lars has to be exactly what Lars did, sort of a guarantee that things would work (as far as Fry saw before he went back in time, that is).

[/headache]

[Reply #165 on:]

Mm, that's the messed-up thing - one could argue if Fry actually has/had to deliberately "do" whatever Lars does/did; that is, if he has to be aware of it; or would/will everything "work out" anyway without him following any specific plan. Even if he doesn't specifically try to follow Lars' experiences, wouldn't the time paradox or causality loop still possibly correct itself.


But also, right, Fry didn't "create" Lars, he was already the self-sustaining time duplicate.
Or something.

[Reply #166 on:]

Actually you are right. After Fry went back in time, temporal continuity is out the window due to paradox-resolving deaths. Sorry, my determinism fetish creeping up and all.

[Reply #167 on:]

This is a very simple explanation of the paradox problem in Benders Big Score:
There is a hole in the plot and here is why: Ok Fry is frozen in the cryogenic tube on new years eve 1999 I will call him Fry1. The next Fry is the one that jumps in the time sphere while running from the scammers. I will call him Fry2. Then Fry2 went to panuccis to get pizza and realized he had no earth money and got one of those "headaches with pictures" i.e. an idea, to go back to the cryogentics lab to get free pizza (the one he left after Fry1 got frozen) whilst trying to eat it, it was cold so he jumped back into the time sphere an hour earlier so that it would be hot again. This creates this paradox of the Fry that will be there in one hour who is Fry2 and the Fry3 is made. Fry2 has a brief conversation with Fry3 and then Fry2 leaves and stays in the past and becomes Lars. So Fry3 gets into his own tube, in the year 3000 which we see him do, then we see Fry1 get out and Fry 3 sets the dial for 8 years later so he will be in the right time period.So now everything is adding up Lars (Fry2 (Lars) gets killed by the blowing up bender) and here lies the problem. If Fry1 Came out in the year 3000, and Fry 3 comes to the future 1008 years later, then there is still a Fry1 left in the year 3000 from coming out from the freezer tube, who in turn would be a paradox because all copies from the past  are considered doomed, but they never show anything about that. therfore: the Fry1 coming out in the year 3000 has absolutely no story which is very confusing to me and I consider it a hole in the plot, but maybe the writers will fix it by killing Fry1 in the most horrible fashion imaginable.

[Reply #168 on:]

Also- Lars jumped into the tube to see Leela  and went into Frys ex-girlfriend michelles tube. I didn't think it was that relevant to mention it since you know who Lars is, but yeah, he went into a freezer tube to go see leela.

[Reply #169 on:]

So until today, last post in this thread was from 2008... Well, I guess it's alright to ask this one thing that bothers me...

As you know, Bender travels many times to the past and creates many duplicates of him self. Are they all just hanging somewhere as the time goes by or what? How did they end up in the basement? Did I miss something...

[Reply #170 on:]

Yes, maymeow, before Bender's first trip back in time he explains to the scammers that he will wait out the excess time in the limestone cavern underneath the Planet Express building (which is the same cavern that comprises the "sub-basement" seen in "Jurassic Bark").

[Reply #171 on:]

So I did miss it! Thanks.

[Reply #172 on:]

Hi Raura, I beleve that when fry first used the time sphere to go back to 2000 the original fry in the cyrogenic tube was exempt from the time duplicate exploding paradox because he was in suspended animation.  Even when that fry leaves the tube in 2000 neither one should be subject to the paradox because the other fry simply set the dial to arrive 8 years later so when his other self left he would not cross paths with that fry and therefore niether one would be subject to the paradox.  However, when was it now that Lars became unfrozen, because if he was out and about before the 8 years later fry, than i do believe that might have made that 8 years later fry do the switheroooo with lars and now be the rightfull owner to the time duplicate exploding condition.  Obviously this was not true probably most due to the fact that if the regular fry were to die then Lars would take over the role.  If this were to happen than it might result in a less exiciting character (I mean with the whole mature penns in the jacket pocket and all), unless of course he were to change his name back to fry, shave fully and use some sort of hair growth tonic (that the y3k era should probably successfully posses).  In wich case he than would just turn out to be a more mature and older fry, one wich Leela might not find as attractive any more?  who knows, I'm not one of thier writers, but if they were interested I would sure lend a good hand.  So if any execs are out thier paroozing these threads let me know cause I will work for a cheap salary.