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Author Topic: Bender's Big Score Time Para-fauxes (spoilers)  (Read 23624 times)
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JustNibblin

Bending Unit
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« on: 11-21-2007 18:02 »

Hey,

Just reserving a thread regarding all the time travel messes created in BBS.  In the DVD commentary DXC and gang freely admit they started writing the script with the time travel components mostly done for gags, but soon realized that they were going to have to start keeping track of all the time loops and character duplicates.  It got to the point where they had to sketch out a chart to keep track of what's going on (it appears as an Easter Egg in the DVD).

Overall I had a lot of fun with the time travel plot, but as my mind wanders over it I pick out quite a few logical errors.  Understandable, but one in particular stands out as problematic, which I call the "missing Fry" problem:



I'll outline my logic in more detail later, if you have trouble seeing what I mean.

Otherwise, feel free to comment on other time paradox problems here!
i_c_weiner

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #1 on: 11-21-2007 19:09 »

Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #2 on: 11-21-2007 19:45 »

soylentOrange

Urban Legend
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« Reply #3 on: 11-21-2007 20:03 »
« Last Edit on: 11-21-2007 20:03 »

boingo2000

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #4 on: 11-21-2007 20:52 »

Another question that just occoured to me:


Man, that question was hard to word so it'd make sense.
dr.bender nye

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #5 on: 11-22-2007 02:31 »
« Last Edit on: 11-22-2007 02:31 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by boingo2000:
Another question that just occoured to me:

Juliet

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #6 on: 11-22-2007 11:31 »

The whole thing confuse me.
soylentOrange

Urban Legend
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« Reply #7 on: 11-24-2007 09:03 »
« Last Edit on: 11-24-2007 09:03 »

I think I found a  big paradox

Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #8 on: 11-24-2007 09:32 »

The big paradox, soylentOrange. That's the big paradox.

Unlike this, which is the pair-a-Docs!


FuturamaPac

Professor
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« Reply #9 on: 11-24-2007 09:44 »

Uh, Xanfor, may I remind you this thread is about Futurama? xD

Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #10 on: 11-24-2007 09:53 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FuturamaPac:
Uh, Xanfor, may I remind you this thread is about Futurama? xD

No. No you may not.  tongue

km73

Space Pope
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« Reply #11 on: 11-24-2007 10:12 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by soylentOrange:
I think I found a  big paradox


I knew something was bothering me about that whole part.  red face
So does/did he actually change the past or what?
dr.bender nye

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #12 on: 11-24-2007 11:02 »
« Last Edit on: 11-24-2007 11:02 »

JustNibblin

Bending Unit
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« Reply #13 on: 11-24-2007 11:54 »
« Last Edit on: 11-24-2007 11:54 by JustNibblin´ »

soylentOrange

Urban Legend
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« Reply #14 on: 11-24-2007 17:08 »

@justNibblin':

 
dr.bender nye

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #15 on: 11-24-2007 18:27 »

I think I understand some of this now:
trickster381

Starship Captain
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« Reply #16 on: 11-24-2007 23:25 »

all of this is the problem with time travel in the movie because no matter what it will conflict with the series in some way.
soylentOrange

Urban Legend
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« Reply #17 on: 11-25-2007 15:49 »
« Last Edit on: 11-25-2007 15:49 »

another paradox along the same lines as the one I found in The Cryonic Woman:

dr.bender nye

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #18 on: 11-25-2007 16:58 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by soylentOrange:
Most of the problems with these is that you didn't listen to the Prof. or Nibbler.
Sal

Starship Captain
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« Reply #19 on: 11-25-2007 17:20 »


FuturamaPac

Professor
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« Reply #20 on: 11-26-2007 10:46 »

Frisco17

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #21 on: 11-28-2007 22:09 »
« Last Edit on: 11-28-2007 22:09 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FuturamaPac:

I just realized that probably has something to do with the medieval thing in the third movie.

As far as the time paradoxes go I saw something that I think is called the "Theory of Complementary Outcomes", or something to that affect. It says that time can only be altered if the outcomes are complementary. For example if Fry had killed his grandfather in Roswell and left he would never exist and never go back to kill his grandfather creating a paradoxical endless loop. However since he slep with his grandmother which ended up leading to a very similar result. The point is that according to the theory details don't matter as long as the end results are the same or similar to the original. This means that any changes have to be minor and relatively insignifigant because everything has such a far ranging affect on everything else. Bear in mind this is just a theory I heard.

Well, that is without a doubt the longest post I've made in a long time. I wonder where all this energy and exitement came from.    wink
Sine Wave

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #22 on: 11-29-2007 12:53 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Frisco17:
As far as the time paradoxes go I saw something that I think is called the "Theory of Complementary Outcomes", or something to that affect. It says that time can only be altered if the outcomes are complementary. For example if Fry had killed his grandfather in Roswell and left he would never exist and never go back to kill his grandfather creating a paradoxical endless loop. However since he slep with his grandmother which ended up leading to a very similar result. The point is that according to the theory details don't matter as long as the end results are the same or similar to the original. This means that any changes have to be minor and relatively insignifigant because everything has such a far ranging affect on everything else. Bear in mind this is just a theory I heard.

I'm pretty sure this has to be how it goes down in the movie, because obviously the time traveling done changed the past, if only through the interaction of time duplicates. If history wasn't changed, Fry (that stayed Fry) would have interacted with himself the first time he threw Bender into the chamber, gone to Panuccis, gone back to the cryogenic chamber, talked to himself on the opposite side of the conversation, and then fallen into the freezer, creating a linear, duplicate-free timeline. However, because the Fry that threw Bender into the chamber acted differently after meeting his future self, history changed, and allowed him to eventually become Lars. This now explains the retconning of Luck of the Fryrish and the cheapening of Jurassic Bark. They still happened the way we saw them, but the time traveling caused different, but ultimately similar enough events to take place instead.
JustNibblin

Bending Unit
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« Reply #23 on: 11-29-2007 13:03 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Sine Wave:
 I'm pretty sure this has to be how it goes down in the movie, because obviously the time traveling done changed the past, if only through the interaction of time duplicates. If history wasn't changed, Fry (that stayed Fry) would have interacted with himself the first time he threw Bender into the chamber, gone to Panuccis, gone back to the cryogenic chamber, talked to himself on the opposite side of the conversation, and then fallen into the freezer, creating a linear, duplicate-free timeline. However, because the Fry that threw Bender into the chamber acted differently after meeting his future self, history changed, and allowed him to eventually become Lars. This now explains the retconning of Luck of the Fryrish and the cheapening of Jurassic Bark. They still happened the way we saw them, but the time traveling caused different, but ultimately similar enough events to take place instead.

I think that's a good summary of what happened.  I loved how the delay of Fry's arrival at Panucci's Pizza by one minute changed the entire timeline (by arriving a minute late, the future Lars didn't see the slice of pizza, and thus he didn't think about returning to the chamber).  Only because of the all-purpose "paradox correction" could  such a thing really happen.  Of course, we're still left with some scenes of LotF and JB that I think are now non-canonical, at least in this universe.
JBERGES

Urban Legend
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« Reply #24 on: 11-29-2007 16:44 »
« Last Edit on: 11-29-2007 16:44 »

Oh... there'se a paradox thread?

Well, here's what  I had to say on the matter, posted in the wrong spot apparently:

 Here 
Sil

Professor
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« Reply #25 on: 11-29-2007 20:11 »

It'd pretty much be a case of making some sort of diagram showing where each copy was, at each point in time and working out when they should have shown 2 or 3 copies but didn't for the sake of clarity. I agree with JBERGES that there's probably a lot fewer holes than we think there are though.

Shotgun not drawing any diagrams  tongue
Nerd-o-rama

Urban Legend
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« Reply #26 on: 11-29-2007 21:35 »

The diagrams are on the DVD as an easter egg...I just haven't found them yet.

Also, where's TNUK when you need him?  Banned again?

I guess it's trendy to mark spoilers here

futz
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #27 on: 11-29-2007 22:32 »

Sorta sounds like folks think of time as an active force that will try to "correct" things that don't conform to a set path. Time is just a unit of measure, or dimension. It may be that time could care less what people do any more than a foot or meter would.
Nerd-o-rama

Urban Legend
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« Reply #28 on: 11-29-2007 22:54 »

Yeah, but causality tends to follow basic rules, even if it doesn't do it in chronological order.  It's sort of the basis of our conception of reality.
Sine Wave

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #29 on: 11-29-2007 23:38 »

Also, although a more accurate analog would be between a meter and a second. The fabric of space is more comparable to time conceptually (Space-time continuum and whatnot).
FryFangirlLisa

Bending Unit
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« Reply #30 on: 11-30-2007 01:13 »
« Last Edit on: 11-30-2007 01:13 »

Ah!  A lot of things that confused me about the movie, have also confused others as well.

Heh, thank goodness I wasn't the only one confused by some parts of the movie.  ^^;


Now, I don't know if this has been mentioned before but anyway, I think I should mention this.

(I'm not sure if this is a paradox though, or just some weird thing that doesn't make any sense)


 


Also, there's something else I've been wondering.

There's 3 things that REALLY confused me.


Hello everyone!  I'm a proud fangirl of these two characters!  ^_^

Philip J. Fry (from Futurama)

Ash Ketchum (from Pokemon)

Sine Wave

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #31 on: 11-30-2007 01:34 »

This is confusing. Supposedly if Bender didn't put it on Fry's ass until the end, we wouldn't have seen it until the end because that would've been when the change in history would have propagated in the future. Actually, everything about Bender's final trip (him being seen out of sync in the cryogenics building and the timecode tattoo itself) both don't add up, and seem to be the only times that somewhat sensible time-traveling rules were breached. Maybe that's why the universe got ripped a new one.

Also, I understand how Bender had so many duplicates at the end, but how did the stuff he stole get time duplicated?
FryFangirlLisa

Bending Unit
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« Reply #32 on: 11-30-2007 08:43 »
« Last Edit on: 11-30-2007 08:43 »

You know what, I just thought of something else. 

There is yet another contradiction.



Hello everyone!  I'm a proud fangirl of these two characters!  ^_^

Philip J. Fry (from Futurama)

Ash Ketchum (from Pokemon)

Sine Wave

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #33 on: 11-30-2007 08:56 »

Because what would Fox have to do with a delivery company?
FryFangirlLisa

Bending Unit
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« Reply #34 on: 11-30-2007 09:08 »
« Last Edit on: 11-30-2007 09:08 »

Oh yeah, good point.

I forgot about that.  XD


I guess that part kinda confused me at first, with the sign changing back and forth from Box to Fox, lol.
JustNibblin

Bending Unit
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« Reply #35 on: 11-30-2007 11:12 »

Regarding the tatoo's origin.  I pretty sure the writers intended that to be a joke, in that the origin of the tattoo is a self-contained causal loop.  However, you're right in earlier episodes of the series Fry's butt did not have a tattoo.

As David X Cohen says, "never let reality get in the way of a good joke."
PazuzuJr

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #36 on: 11-30-2007 12:59 »

What i want to know is where did the tatoo come from to begin with.

and also have't we seen the professor's back before? I'm sure he didn't have his 'ink.'  tongue

 
Quote
origionaly posted by FryFangirlLisa:
3. Okay, so if the second Fry (the duplicate of Fry) IS Lars, then....who is Lars at the beginning of the movie?


Shouldn't there now be 2 Lars? The Lars that exists at the beginning of the movie (Lars 1) BEFORE Fry went back in time and duplicated himself. And supposedly, there's a second Lars (Fry's copy realizing that he is Lars), who froze himself and therefore created Lars 2?

we the first Lars from the beginin onlgot there because Fry froze himself. there was no Lars when fry becme lrs because it was in the past in abou 2012.

futz
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #37 on: 11-30-2007 15:10 »

Mmm yes, but it's causality that can tossed out the window in Quantum Theory. It gets more like probabilties and odds. Given enough attempts anything can happen no matter how unprobable. And all outcomes spin off all their outcomes (etc.) into valid realites.
Nerd-o-rama

Urban Legend
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« Reply #38 on: 12-01-2007 00:36 »

Yeah, but previous Futurama time-travel sexcapades weren't shown as being based in Quantum theory.  Alternate universes weren't created, or if they were, they were immediately ignored after they'd served their purpose (Fry telling Nibbler that Scooty Puff Jr. sucks, and therefore creating a universe in which he wasn't sent back to 1999.  Note that there are also other explanations for this scene).  In this movie, we see several different timelines happen without so much as a scene cut in between.
futz
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #39 on: 12-01-2007 06:01 »
« Last Edit on: 12-01-2007 06:01 »

The Farnsworth Paraboxes are, although time seems to be somewhat syncronous between those universes. I'm not sure what's the source of your distress on the matter...

It seems probable that the time sphere is capable of accessing a timeline "up and down" on the scale of past, present, future and can access "across" all the different timelines. Not unlike a multi-disc CD player.
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