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Author Topic: Best to leave before it gets Stale?  (Read 1752 times)
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Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #40 on: 06-18-2003 14:25 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Hulkbuster:
 
Was the other 20% lost during the second coming of Jesus.

They're the happy medium. Solid average episodes, who neither fall into the great or crap categories. As is the remaining 5% of Futurama.
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
***
« Reply #41 on: 06-18-2003 15:24 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by DotheBartman:
 
But that's not even fair.  The writers of the previous Simpsons did nothing to deserve that.

True, but what can he do? Recent suckiness has soured him on previous greatness. I wouldn't say the old episodes "suck", not by a longshot...but I have to admit, my enthusiasm for all things Simpsons has tapered off, thanks to the past few seasons.


 
Quote
And I think the people who say there's NOTHING good about new Simpsons episodes weren't watching around 99/00.  I admit new episodes aren't perfect, and in fact a lot of them are bombs, but its improving in a LOT of ways, and there's still some classics.

You said it yourself: "a lot of them are bombs". Who can put themselves through that? I'm not gonna watch a shitty television show, week after week, just so I can see one episode with a few good scenes and say "wow, that was great! A classic that easily outshines the best of season 6!"

 
Quote
This year's season finale, "Moe Baby Blues" (written by J. Stewart Burns.  Does he suck now, too?) was EASILY on par with the classics.

You've brought this episode up a lot. I'll have to watch it sometime. I like J. Stewart Burns, but he's only one guy. I don't care how funny he is, if he has 30 other sucky writers fucking with his script, his episode won't be any good.

 
Quote
In other words, they're either pretending to hate every episode, or convincing themselves that they all suck.

Booo...sucky argument. I could just as easily say that you're convincing yourself that The Simpsons doesn't suck. That you're so attached to your childhood memories, that you continue watching this terrible, past-its-prime show, and when it finally produces a half-decent episode, you glorify it and act like it's the best show ever, and talk about how the writers "still got it". Sort of like how SNL fans can sit through some of the worst sketch comedy ever written, and then when TV Funhouse hits they can say "sure, the show has it's ups and downs, but right now it's better than it's been in years!".

...but that would be lame. So I'll just say that you legitimately like the show, and we legitimately hate it.

And I'll also concede that it's possible that not every episode sucks. I don't watch the show anymore, so it's impossible for me to judge every single new episode. But despite the promise of an occassional good episode, the show isn't worth watching for me anymore.
Hulkbuster

Bending Unit
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« Reply #42 on: 06-18-2003 22:29 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
 They're the happy medium. Solid average episodes, who neither fall into the great or crap categories. As is the remaining 5% of Futurama.


Makes sense.
Xmpel

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #43 on: 06-18-2003 22:37 »
« Last Edit on: 06-19-2003 00:00 »

The Simpsons has been dead to me for a long time, now that's beating a dead horse.

Futurama is just:

"Another classic science-fiction show canceld before it's time" - Bender

Futurama could have been going for at least 2 seasons more (3 production seasons).

7 seasons (every season should contain 24 episodes)I think is an alright number. Altough Futurama is set 1000 years in the future and man has spacetravel.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #44 on: 06-19-2003 00:19 »
« Last Edit on: 06-19-2003 00:19 »

 
Quote
You said it yourself: "a lot of them are bombs". Who can put themselves through that? I'm not gonna watch a shitty television show, week after week, just so I can see one episode with a few good scenes and say "wow, that was great! A classic that easily outshines the best of season 6!"


That I can perfectly understand, and its what nearly drove me from the show for good.  But its better to say "the last time I watched most/all of them were bad", then "they all suck and so do the writers's mothers and first borns" (exxageration, I know).


 
Quote
Originally posted by FishyJoe:
 Booo...sucky argument. I could just as easily say that you're convincing yourself that The Simpsons doesn't suck. That you're so attached to your childhood memories, that you continue watching this terrible, past-its-prime show, and when it finally produces a half-decent episode, you glorify it and act like it's the best show ever, and talk about how the writers "still got it". Sort of like how SNL fans can sit through some of the worst sketch comedy ever written, and then when TV Funhouse hits they can say "sure, the show has it's ups and downs, but right now it's better than it's been in years!".

...but that would be lame. So I'll just say that you legitimately like the show, and we legitimately hate it.

And I'll also concede that it's possible that not every episode sucks. I don't watch the show anymore, so it's impossible for me to judge every single new episode. But despite the promise of an occassional good episode, the show isn't worth watching for me anymore.


Can't say I have any "childhood memories" associated with it actually.  Started watching in '00(after the show had already jumped the shark, if you will), and hence I've been mostly exposed to older episodes in syndication.  So, I think I've been able to be pretty level headed about it, and will point out a good or bad episode when I see it (just like with Futurama...I admit I hated to see a bad one and at first tried to convince myself it wasn't bad, but the most recent one really was a BAD one and I was still able to admit it ultimately).  But my argument on this really is like the SNL thing actually, in another sense.  But to stick to Simpsons for now, I think its sort of the same mentality that made people consider seasons 9 and 10 part of the "prime" in the first place.  They had loved the show for 8 straight seasons, and hated to see it decline, so they convinced themselves it was still as good as ever.  But by season 11 it was unmistakable (both because it was even worse, and because their efforts to convince themselves it was still good had strained by then).  By this same mentality, after two seasons (actually three, as in 10-12, but two by their perceptions) of shit, they got used to hating it, and it almost became an outlet for them to just blindly say "it sucks".  Trust me, I have a lot of friends who do this.  Some truly believe the show is shit now and give real reasons, but some just rate every episode the same way and give no reasons why it wasn't any good.  They became so used to hating it, that they put up mental "hate goggles" similar to their "love goggles" from their seasons 9 and 10 days, and became so used to it that they
weren't even ABLE to see improvements.  It would almost be like going back on their word, after saying over and over to friends and fellow internet message board users that every episode sucked and the writers' mothers must have been praying for their souls.   Hope all of that rant made some sense, even if you don't agree.

Regarding SNL(the show's quality itself anyway), agreed.  I think it DOES have its ups and downs actually, but I pretty much stopped watching last season because after the first few eps of the season I realized it was at a pretty extreme low.  I guess I'll start watching again eventually, but probably at a random tune in down the line.  If I like what I see, then I'll watch again, and repeat the process if it tanks again.
phat_slug

Crustacean
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« Reply #45 on: 06-19-2003 01:48 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Australian Guy:
Maybe im just gettin depressed but i dont find the eps as amusing as i did in the first season.

Yeah, I agree 100%. I think Futurama peaked in Season 2 (not to say that 3,4 & 5 havent had their moments). Maybe I was just less critical, but I remember sitting down to Futurama knowing Id have a hilarious, entertaining experience ahead. Nowadays, its more like "I hope today's is a good one."

So I guess I can understand why FOX would drop the show this year. Their real crime was killing with that Season 3 timespot.
the_dudefather

Delivery Boy
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« Reply #46 on: 06-19-2003 10:24 »

aparently the simpsons is commissioned until 2005 at least...imagine what the episodes will be like then....

it seems new epsides fall into these catagories:

-a new way of life for a character (lisa:buddist, marge: boob job, etc)

-trips(africa)

-An injury (a character breaking a leg/arm/etc)

-a character finding love.

what really annoys me is the weird craziness that has fallen over the show, but not the good type of craziness. and the 'poking fun at itself' when it basically says "yes i know this episode sucks, but keep watching, look homer is doing something CrAzY!!!"

i also noticed one of the new episodes was similar to an old episode of 'hey arnold'...
Action Jacktion

Professor
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« Reply #47 on: 06-19-2003 12:42 »
« Last Edit on: 06-19-2003 12:42 »

Okay, I'll start with the obligatory opinion on when The Simpsons went bad.  I personally think the tone started changing during season 7, and by season 9 there was little reason to watch it any more.  The 'jump the shark' moment was "You Only Move Twice," which was technically part of season 7 but didn't air until season 8.  Season 8 had some good episodes and season 7 was almost completely good, but the change was noticeable.  No episode I've seen since then has convinced me to start watching again.

As for Futurama, I think there was a big change between season 2 and 3.  In season 2, the writers seemed to be getting into the groove with the concept and were having lots of fun, and that translated to the stories.  Things got more mature in season 3; before then you saw nothing close to "Parasites Lost," "Luck of the Fryrish," or "Time Keeps on Slippin'."  But both seasons had their good episodes and their bad episodes.

   
Quote
Originally posted by CyberKnight:
On the subject of Futurama, I'm not sure I agree with those who think "Leela's Homeworld" came too early. Personally I think any attempt to do a "Leela finds her past but it isn't her past" episode would feel like a rehash of "A Bicyclops Built For Two".
   
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
Then again, much hoopla was made of the fact Leela is the only one-eyed alien on Earth. Making only one episode (half of which was an internet-ride and a MWC-homage) on this matter, seem like wasted potentiel (much like another sci-fi show ). And it's not like Leela went looking for her heritage in "Leela's Homeworld", it just happened upon her. So, that's a grand total of 0.5 episode centered on one of the main aspects of the female heroine. I think they could've made at least 2 more spread over 3-4 seasons without it getting repetitive.
Maybe they didn't do another episode about looking for her origins because they couldn't think of how to make it different from "Bicyclops."  Perhaps they could have done one in which the characters piece together clues about her origin but only end up finding another note that says her parents love her, or something like that.

I think they could have done another story about the mutants before "Leela's Homeworld."  The mutants pop up now and then, but the only story to feature them prominently is their introduction, "I Second that Emotion," and they're only in the last half or so of that one.  Also, it isn't until "Leela's Homeworld" that we learn the mutants are officially discriminated against.  But I'm not sure what else you could do with the mutants... maybe a political episode in which we learn about the discrimination, or something science fiction-y with those sub-mutants they hinted about.

Season 4 does have a high concentration of romance episodes, at least compared to other seasons, but really there are only five episodes out of eighteen that deal with it (six if you count "Teenage Mutant Leela's Hurdles" ), and it isn't the main focus of any of them, except maybe "The Devil's Hands."  If the writers had known they'd only have four seasons, they might have spaced it differently, but it sort of works when broken down by season: Seasons 1-2: Boy meets Girl; Season 3: Boy loses Girl; Season 4: Boy gets Girl (?).

I think it could have lasted longer without going stale, and another season would have made the shift between seasons 2 and 3 less noticeable.  In my opinion, The Simpsons had maybe six good years, though unlike The Simpsons, Futurama was good right from the start.  Anyway, I would've liked just one more season.
Doffe

Poppler
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« Reply #48 on: 06-19-2003 17:44 »

I've only recently "discovered" Futurama, but after seeing quite a few episodes I must say that I feel that the show has the quality to continue for at least a few seasons more. The characters have depth, the jokes and reflections on todays society are right on target, the episodes seem to get better and better... And... I dunno...The feel of the show is just so cool  smile
It really is too bad that the show has ben cancelled... There could have been a lot more memorable Futurama episodes.

I just wish that I had known about Futurama when it first appeared... It's really great!
Chanukah Zombie

Bending Unit
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« Reply #49 on: 06-20-2003 01:20 »

"It's good that Leela doesn't love us; she'll be less sad when we die." 

- Turanga Munda to Turanga Morris in "Less Than Hero"

zoidyzoid

Professor
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« Reply #50 on: 06-20-2003 04:48 »
« Last Edit on: 06-20-2003 04:48 »

ooh, ooh, I get to welcome someone!
Welcome to PEEL, Doffe      smile
hooray!

I personally think that Futurama would have at least a couple of good quality full (20-something episodes) seasons left. It has definitely been cancelled before its time, but there is the consolation of knowing that Futurama never 'jumped the shark', and depending on who you ask, there were few or no 'bad episodes'.
mads

Bending Unit
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« Reply #51 on: 06-20-2003 07:38 »

Futurama is a sci-fi show. So it almost got endless storys to tell. I think Futurama could have lasted for at least 4 seasons more. Without repeating it self.
Evil Fox Exec

Bending Unit
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« Reply #52 on: 06-20-2003 09:50 »

 
Quote
But I think Futurama could have carried on for probably at least 2 more seasons before going too stale. But I keep thinking to myself, some of the best eps in Season 4 are eps like 'The Why of Fry', 'Leela's Homeworld', and 'The Sting', all eps, which if it was certain it wouldn't have got cancelled, then would have probably been made in later seasons. But then what does this say about the quality of Season 4? taking out some of it's very best eps, the quality drops. And unless that quailty could have been replaced by equal amounts of quality, which is doubtful when you consider eps like 'Kif Gets Knocked Up a Notch' and '300 Big Boys' which are already the milking of the season, then to milk it even more would probably make it the worst Futurama season so far. And if it were continue in that trend, then it would begin to get stale soon. Sure there would still be good eps, but more weak ones between, so I'm kinda in a way glad it's been cancelled before it gets like that   smile

Amen to that!  This summarizes *exactly* what I was thinking, and I'm glad that somebody else already said it, because I certainly couldn't describe it as well.  I looked at an ep list of 4acv recently, and I noticed that there was a higher concentration thatn normal of eps I didn't like, or that I downright hated.  In fact, there were eps I disliked than liked.  But then again, most of the episodes I did like were some of the absolute best episodes ever, IMO.  What I find interesting is the vast majority of 4acv eps fall into one of the two extremes:  Either they're extremely good or extremely bad.  There're few cases where there is a middle ground.  So, I would have also liked to see Futurama renewed for one or two more seasons, just to see if this is a temporary or permanent bad streak.  Hopefully temporary, but now we'll never know.  I've been having this feeling that Futurama hit its peak at season three, and now it's starting to go downhill a bit, save for a few kickass episodes like The Why of Fry, Jurassic Bark, Leela's Homeworld, The Sting, The Farnsworth Parabox, and maybe one or two others which can't think of right now.  Of course, all the above is just my opinion.

Regarding the Simpsons, I think they started going downhill at season 8.  I think Season 6 is too early.  So, I think that the Simpsons were going strong seasons 1-7, and started to go downhill seasons 8-10.  And after that, all was lost.     

Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #53 on: 06-20-2003 10:16 »

Soeaking for myself, I enjoyed the Farnswoth Parabox for the nifty sietific references and historical things.  Roman Farsnworth actually says the roman equivalent of "Eh-wah?"  No other show I know of would actually research something like that.  smile

The thing is, people assume that a small dip in quality in sason 4 means that the show had peaked.  There was a dip of wuality in season 5 of The Simpsons, but it went on strong for three seasons more.  There simply isn't enough data to say that Futurama is going stale, or going bad, becasue there's actually nothing to judge it against aside from a very subjective view of the episode quality.  Whatever you might say, the quality of every season of Futurama has been far superior to everything else out there.  We're all spoiled, that's the problem. Spoiled by this great show, unable to really appreciate the greatness we have access to because it's slipped a little bit.  I'm sure they would have shored it up again in the real season 5.
Sil

Professor
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« Reply #54 on: 06-20-2003 10:18 »

See, I have this theory that the reason that the Simpsons started to go downhill is that they lost quite a lot of their senior staff to Futurama (David Cohen, Ken Keeler, Stewart Burns et al).  Their loss, our gain. Anyone?

But yeah, I think that it's sad Futurama's ending and it could have gone on longer, but the Simpsons is getting old and tired.  It's like, would you rather live an exciting, fun life and go out with a bang (ie Futurama) , or watch it slope off towards the end and finish up in a wheelchair and totally incapacitated.  Cos that's the way the Simpsons seems to be going.

My tuppence!
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
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« Reply #55 on: 06-20-2003 13:45 »

I disagree with almost all, if not all, of you.  I don't think Futurama would have gotten stale as quickly as everyone is saying.  Its stories are much better than the Simpsons, and it's in the future.  The Simpsons are supposed to be about american life nowadays, so the're running out of interesting stories.  Futurama still has bucket loads of things to wrap up and plenty to start if it kept going.  The staff are better, too.
davids

Starship Captain
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« Reply #56 on: 07-30-2003 04:49 »

you can always tell if a program is going stale if they do one of those episodes where they show clips from old episodes. Futurama never done that and so must be a sign that there were many more ideas that will never be told.
SwanMan3000

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #57 on: 07-30-2003 05:12 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by the_dudefather:
aparently the simpsons is commissioned until 2005 at least...imagine what the episodes will be like then....

it seems new epsides fall into these catagories:

-a new way of life for a character (lisa:buddist, marge: boob job, etc)

-trips(africa)

-An injury (a character breaking a leg/arm/etc)

-a character finding love.

what really annoys me is the weird craziness that has fallen over the show, but not the good type of craziness. and the 'poking fun at itself' when it basically says "yes i know this episode sucks, but keep watching, look homer is doing something CrAzY!!!"

i also noticed one of the new episodes was similar to an old episode of 'hey arnold'...

- Dont forget the walking into celebratys for no good reason in no funny cercumstance and screaming their name into the camera.

- The whole show being a gameshow or a prank

and the god damn looking into the camera and screaming whaaaa...

what a load of bollucks. Do what they used to fucking do, just a normal show, an everyday event that familys do. But fill it with funny things and comments. I would love to have a talk with their writing staff and after the savage beating i would put them bloody right.
Also make us care about the charactors, like in Futurama. Would it kill them to make us feel something for the charactors? sheesh. i think im gonna go take my ritlin now after i beat up my cat.........

CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #58 on: 07-30-2003 05:34 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by davids:
you can always tell if a program is going stale if they do one of those episodes where they show clips from old episodes. Futurama never done that and so must be a sign that there were many more ideas that will never be told.

Actually the earlier clip shows of The Simpsons weren't done for lack of ideas. FOX wanted 24 episodes per season but the tight schedule meant that only 22 completely new episodes could be produced. So an agreement was made where FOX got 22 new episodes and 2 clip episodes per season (this was around seasons 4-6, I think).
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #59 on: 07-30-2003 07:21 »

Star Trek TNG made a clipshow episode very early in it's run (season 2: Shades Of Grey) and the show kept improving from that point on.

The reason TNG did it wasn't because they were running out of ideas, but purely financial, they simply didn't have the funds to make a fully fledged episode.

An in the proud tradition of clipshows, "Shades Of Grey" is one of the worst TNG episodes ever.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #60 on: 07-30-2003 19:32 »
« Last Edit on: 07-30-2003 19:32 »


Regarding the loss of "Simpsons" staffers to Futurama, I dunno....the animation directors they lost were probably a big blow (season 9 started a descent into shittsville regarding the animation direction, though that's getting better right now).  But the writers..eh...David Cohen was a good writer, but not one of the best really (though "Much Apu About Nothing" was fantastic satire.  Cohen can be partially blamed for the descent of Lisa's character though, starting with his "Lisa the Skeptic" ).  Ken Keeler was actually one of the weakest writers up to that point (not to say his episodes weren't enjoyable, but I look at "A Star is Burns" and "Two Bad Neighbors" and can't help but feel they were early steps toward the eventual decline.  And actually, his "Principal and the Pauper" episode is the first truly shitty Simpsons episode in my book).  He's one of the best Futurama writers, but that Futurama work is MUCH better then his spotty Simpsons record.  As for Groening, its was much more of a blow that he essentially stopped being involved day to day around season 4 or 5, well before Futurama.  And those three, other then the directors, were really the only Simpsons staffers to leave for Futurama. The leavings that really hurt The Simpsons (immediately or eventually) were more people like Jon Vitti, Jay Kogen, Wally Walladarsky, Sam Simon, Greg Daniels, Bill Oakley, Josh Weinstein, etc.

Oh, and regarding The Simpsons not being "human" anymore, I sorta disagree.  Its had its falterings, but seasons 13 and 14 have tried very hard to restore the "human" element Mike Scully all but eradicated from the show.  Its had its hits and misses, but the hits ("Little Girl in the Big Ten"and  "Moe Baby Blues" being the most notable) are easily better then anything in seasons 9-12.  Futurama does emotion/endearing characters better then The Simpsons does now for the most part, but "Moe Baby Blues", I would say, was actually better in that regard then anything in this "Futurama" season has been (barring Jurassic Bark).
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
***
« Reply #61 on: 07-30-2003 21:21 »

Good call, Bartman. I never liked Keeler on The Simpsons, but his Futurama stuff has rocked. I'm not sure if it's because he can do more with the scifi concept, or if he just improved as a writer, or if he's supported by a better staff or what.

Cohen was pretty good, but he had lost it by season 9(that Lord of the Flies parody was one of the worst episodes of its time).

And I'm not the biggest Groening fan in the world. I'm surprised that Futurama ended up being so good.
Lindsay99

Delivery Boy
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« Reply #62 on: 07-31-2003 00:14 »

 
Quote

Cohen was pretty good, but he had lost it by season 9(that Lord of the Flies parody was one of the worst episodes of its time).

i didn't he wrote that episode. I actually thought that the episode was great. Definitly one of, if not the best of season 9 of the simpsons. 

DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #63 on: 07-31-2003 01:06 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2003 01:06 »

For the record I don't hate Keeler's Simpsons work either.  "El Viaje De Nuestro Homer" and "Brother From Another Series" are both good, just not really highlights (well, maybe the latter is...maybe).  His other stuff is more spotty....enjoyable (save for "Pauper" ) but spotty.  There are newer Simpsons episodes that are better then any of his other work on Simpsons.  He returned to it this last season though.  Don't know what the explanation is for his Futurama work being better is, but judging by his work (he even wrote not one but TWO THOH shorts I believe EDIT: only one, but spinoff showcase was partially his doing also) he has a fairly wacky sensibility to his writing that fit a little more with Futurama for obvious reasons.

Cohen I might have to take back to some extent.  He started off really well if nothing else, and "Bart the Mother" (his last ep aside from a THOH short) is desperately underrated.  But he can't be completely forgiven for Lisa the Skeptic's wrekcing Lisa's character (even his "Lisa the Vegetarian", despite being great, ultimately laid the groundwork for what her character would be mutated into).

Groening really doesn't get enough credit when it comes to everything he does.  Granted, what I said about the lowering of his role in the show around season 4 or 5 holds true, but he did nothing but good the show while he was there, and continues to do good when he actually contributes.  He just couldn't pioneer the show on his own, and needed Brooks and Simon, just as he needed Cohen (or someone similar) to pioneer Futurama.  So, he's not the be all/end all god of television or anything, but I think what he does is great.  "Life in Hell" is one of the funniest comics ever.
Killerfox

Professor
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« Reply #64 on: 07-31-2003 02:02 »

now OC_James is the "dont beat the dead horse guy"
Gleno

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #65 on: 07-31-2003 10:44 »

K I'm new to this but my 2 bits about the simpsons first I guess....I still watch it and I agree it's not the way it used 2 be but in the end it stil makes me laugh and isn't that all that matters....? To be going 4 this long ur bound to run low on ideas....

As for Futurama, the best damn show ever made EVER I am very sad 2 hear about the cancellation (being an Aussie I had 2 read about it lol) And I just hope we get all the episodes eventually, or the dvd's at least....(already have Seasons 1 and 2 and I treasure them lol)
Anyway b4 I ramble, of course we could have had so many more seasons but in a way it's good that they stopped b4 it got stale, even though we all know that would never happen  wink

Long live Planet Express....!! *cries his head off*  frown
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
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« Reply #66 on: 07-31-2003 12:09 »

welcome to peel, Gleno.  You're right, the simpsons are still funny, but you're also wrong- that isn't all that counts.  if you're a futurama fan, or even a simpsons fan, there are many other parts of the show too and if it is very funny but a horrible plot, it isn't good enough. 
Evil Fox Exec

Bending Unit
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« Reply #67 on: 07-31-2003 12:16 »

Man, that little essay you wrote there was pretty damn fascinating, DotheBartman!  I really learned a lot from you now, since I was never really a mega-huge Simpsons, just a casual fan, so I didn't really know who wrote what.  I found it really interesting that these guys like Ken Keeler and David Cohen were realatively sucky Simpsons writers, but their talent really shone through in Futurama.  I guess they just couldn't find their niche in the Simpsons.  BTW, on a sidenote, I disagree with you that El Viaje De Nuestro Homer is good.  That was one of the worst episodes ever IMO.  Also, I too found Lisa to be extremely annoying in that episode where she becomes a vegetarian, and I was surprised that David Cohen wrote it.  Well, I guess he never was a really good Simpsons writer, but as a writer/co-creator of Futurama, he ROCKS!  Are there any other writer from the Simpsons besides Ken Keeler and David Cohen, who weren't all-that-great Simpsons but made a great transition to Futurama?

BTW, you brought up another really good point.  I'm sick and tired of all these rabid Simpsons fans who hate Futurama because they think  the show "stole" all the good writers.  In fact, I've seen this on several websites, and it really nauseates me.  I don't visit any Simpsons fan sites as a result, ever, because I don't wanna see that crap.  Futurama was NOT the downfall of the Simpsons.  The Simpsons was already starting to go downhill at that point in time.  Why can't those people realize that?     
Killerfox

Professor
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« Reply #68 on: 07-31-2003 12:34 »

welcome to peel!
catindisguise

Screamy
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #69 on: 07-31-2003 14:11 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2003 14:11 »

I do not watch the simpsons anymore. I am boycotting it. If anything, it dragged down futurama.

On sky one (the only channel new futurama shows are on in England) futurama gets two half hour slots a week. One on Sunday and one on Saturday. The simpsons gets about 4 slots a day!!!!!!!! That makes me sick  puke (also I wanted to use the puke icon)

OK call me slow but I DIDN'T know that Matt left!!!! (the simpsons) Is this true????

Also I agree, the simpsons did peak at about series 7. Futurama could have had WAY more seasons and never got boring (not as long as bender was still on).

God, I'll miss it   frown    cry
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
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« Reply #70 on: 07-31-2003 17:27 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by catindisguise:
I do not watch the simpsons anymore. I am boycotting it. If anything, it dragged down futurama.

On sky one (the only channel new futurama shows are on in England) futurama gets two half hour slots a week. One on Sunday and one on Saturday. The simpsons gets about 4 slots a day!!!!!!!! That makes me sick.

But, looking at it from a different perspective, new Futurama gets aired whenever Sky get the chance, whereas new Simpsons is only aired once every three weeks or so. And it's understandable that The Simpsons would get more slots, as there's about 5 times the episode run to get through. And, like it or not, The Simpsons has a much wider fanbase than Futurama, so it's much safer for Sky to put on Simpsons rerun's than Futurama. Plus (and I know this is blasphemy) I think the 72 episode run would get repetitive after a while.

 
Quote
OK call me slow but I DIDN'T know that Matt left!!!! (the simpsons) Is this true????

According to one article, he spent much more time watching over Futurama than The Simpsons (which is hardly suprising when Futurama was developed by his own company), so in a sense, he left.

 
Quote
God, I'll miss it    frown     cry

As will we all, I expect.  frown
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
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« Reply #71 on: 07-31-2003 18:35 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Evil Fox Exec:
BTW, you brought up another really good point. I'm sick and tired of all these rabid Simpsons fans who hate Futurama because they think the show "stole" all the good writers. In fact, I've seen this on several websites, and it really nauseates me. I don't visit any Simpsons fan sites as a result, ever, because I don't wanna see that crap. Futurama was NOT the downfall of the Simpsons. The Simpsons was already starting to go downhill at that point in time. Why can't those people realize that?

Well, now i'll have to visit simpsons sites and rant.  many simpsons fans are less *ahem* "mature" than futurama fans, they just like the simpsons cause it's funny, and most of the kids my age don't even realize it's going bad. if they watched futurama they'd see it was.  what i'm trying to say is, futurama fans understand television more, partly because futurama isn't entirely comedy.  hard core simpsons fans are usually jerks (unless they are also futurama fans).

 
Quote
Originally posted by catindisguise:
On sky one (the only channel new futurama shows are on in England) futurama gets two half hour slots a week. One on Sunday and one on Saturday. The simpsons gets about 4 slots a day!!!!!!!!

What're you complianing about?  fox DOESN'T show futurama except new ones on sundays (as we know only 2  left  frown ).  you're lucky you get to see it at all.  i only have season 1 dvd, (soon season 2!), and sometimes i catch it on tbs.  and it's not on cn till nov. 2 (even though home movies is good).
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #72 on: 07-31-2003 23:06 »

First off, most of the "hardcore fans" at the No Homers Club board I visit regularly love Futurama, and most are also not jerks, including the ones who don't consider Futurama to be their cup of tea.  We may love Futurama to death, and I may love The Simpsons to death, but its naive and downright crummy for either fanbase to say that anyone who doesn't like it are "jerks" or "don't understand television".  Not to say that some don't of course (I wonder a little about "Friends" fans...), but its sayings like that that contribute to the "Comic Book Guy" type image that harcore fans (of anything) and "internet geeks" have.  On a side note, most Simpsons internet fans I've met never "blame" Futurama for The Simpsons decline (if anything, they pound poor Mike Scully to death for the decline instead, though he is the major culprit IMO), and the ones that do hypothesize about Futurama affecting The Simpsons' quality are usually still Futurama fans (hence, they're able to use that as "proof" ).

Anyways, again, I don't think Cohen or Keeler were "sucky" writers.  "Much Apu..." and "Lisa the Vegetarian" are even favorites of mine despite the characterization problems in the latter.  They just weren't top notch compared to some of the other writers at the time, and Keeler was one of the weaker ones ("Godfellas" is better then any of his Simpsons work).  They're also the only Simpsons alumni (in the writers group that is; there are various directors like Wes Archer and Susie Dieter, along with former Simpsons producers Bill Oakley and Josh Weinstein who were Futurama consultants in 3ACV) that are involved with Futurama aside from the obvious of Groening.  J. Stewart Burns did join The Simpsons staff this past year though, with Futurama being out of production by that point.
Lindsay99

Delivery Boy
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« Reply #73 on: 08-01-2003 00:09 »

DotheBartMan, i'm a huge fan of both the simpsons and futurama, but i'm also a huge fan of friends. Does that mean i don't understand TV?
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #74 on: 08-01-2003 02:35 »

I guess that's kinda what I was saying there...its rude, pompous, and stupid to say that people "don't understand tv" because they like or don't like a specific show.  So know, your fandom of Friends does not mean that.
Evil Fox Exec

Bending Unit
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« Reply #75 on: 08-01-2003 10:31 »

Once again, what you said proved very interesting DotheBartman!  So those people who blame Futurama for the Simpsons' decline have it all wrong, being that only two not-so-good Simpsons writers left, who went on to become two kick-ass Futurama writers.  Those directors that left probably wouldn't have made much difference in the Simpsons, anyway.  I believe the directors are more involved with the animation process rather than the writing process.

Maybe you have some luck hanging around Simpsons fans who date blame Futurama for the Simpsons' downfall.  But some time ago I was looking for Simpsons sites and forums, and there were quite a number of them who wrongfully blamed everything on Futurama.  So I said to myself, "Eh, screw this.  I'm never going to visit another Simpsons fansites again".  BTW, I didn't know that Sam Simon left the Simpsons!  When and why did he leave? 
Gleno

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #76 on: 08-01-2003 10:41 »

Thanx 4 the welcome I'm addicted to this place I think lol

Yeah have 2 agree....
NoAPOlogies

Bending Unit
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« Reply #77 on: 08-01-2003 13:33 »

Alright here's my opinion... The question of whether Futurama should quit before it get's stale is impossible to answer based on the fact that we will never know when it gets stale, and different people have different ideas of when a show starts to suck. For all we know, Groening and company may have 3 more good seasons on the table, or they could be breathing a sigh of relief that the show is getting cancelled now because they may also have no good ideas.

The fact is is that we do not know what the future of Futurama would hold, and we may never know what ideas Groening had, what turns in the story there would be, etc...
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #78 on: 08-01-2003 15:04 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by NoAPOlogies:
or they could be breathing a sigh of relief that the show is getting cancelled now because they may also have no good ideas.

The fact is is that we do not know what the future of Futurama would hold, and we may never know what ideas Groening had, what turns in the story there would be, etc...

They definately had many more stories ready to be told, it's been said in various interviews. Some of those stories, have, and will be used in the Futurama comics though  smile

NotADeBender

Poppler
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« Reply #79 on: 08-01-2003 15:20 »

I haven't gotten any Futurama cimics yet but now that its going off the air i geuss i'll start collecting them. Damn Fox...or whoever is responsible for taking them out!
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