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PEEL - The Futurama Message Board    General Disscussion    Thoughts on [4ACV12] - The Sting « previous next »
Author Topic: Thoughts on [4ACV12] - The Sting  (Read 7454 times)
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Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
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« Reply #280 on: 06-24-2003 14:22 »
« Last Edit on: 06-24-2003 14:22 »

Welcome to PEEL, hope you have a good time here.  Yes, if you're going to see a Futurama ep, this is one of the tops on my list.

TOTPD
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #281 on: 06-24-2003 15:04 »

i agree that the gender roles are reversed but i don't agree that that was the first thought on her mind moments from waking from a coma induced nightmare where she was responsible for Fry's death. I'm more inclined to beleive ZoidMD's theory that she was realizing just how far he is willing to go for her. She could always right off Fry's attempt to save her in L&R as him reacting without thinking. She could even right off his jumping in front of her as such. but you can't right off two weeks spent in bedside vigil like that. He's finally begining to prove to her that his love is genuine and i don't see her wanting him or any man to be her 'protector' so i really doubt that's the main issue keeping them apart.
Chanukah Zombie

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #282 on: 06-25-2003 00:37 »

Here are a few more thoughts:

How did Fry save Leela in L&R?  Passively.  And how did he restore his orignal self in PL?  Muy passively -- by threatening to kill himself.  Even in TWOF it was passive.  He detonated the bomb with himself in the radius and later pushed himself into the cryochamber.  Even when he defeated the giant brains the first time around, he did it by writing a story!  This was was also the same way he defended Earth from the Omicronians in WAA.  In no case did he have to kick the bad guys' asses -- because he's not capable of it.  You'll find that even in the most he-man, macho sci-fi and fantasy novels, like John Norman's Gor series, for example, women do occasionally save the day -- but only through passive means. 

It's striking that ZMD misspelled "comma" for "coma."  Weren't we essentially debating the placement of a comma and how it affects meaning in a sentence?  I wonder if that was intentionally meant to serve as a clue -- comma/coma? 

The whole point of PL was that the new "Charles Atlas" Fry wasn't really "him" at all!  I believe that supports my contention. 

The same thing, spoken or done, can sometimes mean more than one thing at once. 

Leela "writing off" two attempts of Fry to sacrifice his own life for hers?  Come on.  No way.  Someone offers their life in exchange for yours and you know without a doubt that they care about you.  That couldn't have been the issue.  Besides, the proof is in the pudding.  She kept the candy heart.  That tells me she understood exactly what it meant. 

Lots of idle speculation going on here but that might have been the point.  When I look up "sting" in the dictionary, I find that it shares an etymology with "stochastic," which is defined as "Of, relating to, or characterized by conjecture; conjectural."   http://www.bartleby.com/61/roots/IE497.html   Pun intended, the point here might have been to get the point. 
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #283 on: 06-25-2003 05:30 »
« Last Edit on: 06-25-2003 05:30 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Chanukah Zombie:
It's striking that ZMD misspelled "comma" for "coma."  Weren't we essentially debating the placement of a comma and how it affects meaning in a sentence?  I wonder if that was intentionally meant to serve as a clue -- comma/coma? 

 
Quote
SFX talking about "Dune":
People in Frank Herbert's Dune books analyse every nuance in mental italics, to the point of madness.  "Have a nice day," someone says, and it's time for Deep Thought:  I must probe for the multiple encoded meanings within these poisoned words.  The "have" is a mere semantic feint - his subtler trap lies in the tension between "nice day" and the fact that it is a lousy day.  He is confident enough to reveal overtly that he may tell me untruths!  I must not underestimate the deadly hidden strengths that lurk beneath such assurance...
And so on, forever.

Incidentally, the same SFX article declared the Gor books to be the third worst thing in science fiction, right behind the Star Wars Holiday Special and Bonnie Langford in Doctor Who.

Have a nice day.   big grin
Anarchist

Professor
*
« Reply #284 on: 06-25-2003 08:48 »

CZ, after reading that post I must ask, what is *your* point?

Every man has some feminine tendencies, and, likewise, the converse is true as well. Yes, Fry does have more femeninity than most men, but you basically describe him as a woman trapped in a man's body. (And likewise for Leela, I presume?)
Are you saying that saving the day passively is not a "manly" thing to do? Is "kicking the bad guy's ass" better somehow, or more heroic? Consider this: a General will face an opposing army soon. His men are tired and worn from recent battles, and while he may win the upcoming battle, the casualties will be high. If he instead finds a way to trick the enemy into surrendering without a fight, is he being a wimp? Would he be a bigger man if he charged his men into battle needlessly? Would it even be a "passive" thing to do if he tricked his enemy into surrendering; are you saying that the only "active" way to achieve something is through physical prowess?

Fry and Leela certainly do not fit the social gender bias, but the "gender roles" we're all taught are just that - bias. While men usually are physically stronger than woman, this is not what defines masculinity and femeninity. Even though their gender roles are "reversed" in society's eyes, Fry is still the man and Leela is still the woman, for however much that matters. Despite his increased femeninity, Fry still wants to be, and in some cases is, there for Leela in a "manly" way, and despite her increased masculinity, a part of Leela does want to be treated like a "lady", which was shown several times throughout the show, most notably in PL.

Also, you say that the worm-infested Fry in PL wasn't in fact Fry at all. Where did you get this notion? The way I see it, it was still the same Fry, except it was an "enhanced version". The worms increased his physical and mental abilities, but beneath that, it was still the same Fry. Things like physical prowess and mental ability don't define us, they are just tools - tools that we still have to use in whatever way we like. If two men are equally as strong and equally as smart, does that make them the same guy?

I agree, however, that Leela could not have written off Fry's attempts to save her life. The fact that she kept the candy heart is proof of that, if nothing else. What IS it that keeps them apart, then? Is it really only Fry's stupidity and lack of maturity, or is it perhaps Leela's skewed standards? Remember, she DID have a crush on Zapp Brannigan, until she met him. She grew to accept Fry's advances more and more throughout the series, because her views gradually changed. I'm just guessing here, though; any thoughts on this?
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #285 on: 06-25-2003 10:58 »

I don't really think either of them are reversed, it's just their own personalitys.  Fry is more of a wimp, but he can be strong and heroic.  There are many signs of this throughout the show.  And Leela usually is herioc, and brave, but she gets into trouble sometimes as well.  It's just their personality.  Fry is loyal to his friends, and he does whatever he can to help them.  Other times, he can be a wimp.  Leela is strong, but she can also be lonely and scared.  That's when Fry comes in.  And many times Fry won't leave without Bender being saved.  He's truly a good friend. 

Yeah, something like that.  Close enough.
Anarchist

Professor
*
« Reply #286 on: 06-25-2003 11:02 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Futurama_Hil:And many times Fry won't leave without Bender being saved.
Which brings me to another point. Did anyone notice how Leela (along with Fry) was ready to abandon Bender when they were escaping the
beehive? He got onto the ship by pure chance. What was that? I didn't like that at all.
Venus

Urban Legend
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« Reply #287 on: 06-25-2003 11:05 »

i noticed that too.
less than hero

Bending Unit
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« Reply #288 on: 06-25-2003 11:06 »

The sting was great.  The animation techniques were superb and the twist at the end was well thought up.  I hope we can have more episodes of the same quality-perhaps a little funnier, though.  I agree with M Jackson on the past girl friends of Fry being funny- especially the Amazonian.
                 
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #289 on: 06-25-2003 11:11 »

Well, she did say "good luck Bender" but then again that doesn't help.  I guess she just thought that the Queen Bee would put her stinger into the door.

Welcome to PEEL, less than hero.  There, another welcome done!
Anarchist

Professor
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« Reply #290 on: 06-25-2003 11:18 »

"Good luck, Bender" meant "You're on your own now, buddy! We're getting the hell out of here!" And Fry didn't even object to that at all. That's what really surprised me.

Oh, and welcome to PEEL, less than hero.
*snif*... I never got welcomed to PEEL...
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
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« Reply #291 on: 06-25-2003 11:29 »

Belated welcome to PEEL, Anarchist!
Zoidberg MD

Bending Unit
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« Reply #292 on: 06-25-2003 11:45 »

I thought that was really odd, that Fry didnt object.  In godfellas he was going nuts looking for bender.
Cube_166

Professor
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« Reply #293 on: 06-25-2003 11:59 »

A very good point there. Oh and welcome to PEEL everyone.
Nobody ever welcomed me either.   frown
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
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« Reply #294 on: 06-25-2003 12:33 »
« Last Edit on: 06-25-2003 12:33 »

*sigh* You people made me do this...

Belated welcome/ Welcome/ Early Welcome to EVERYONE at PEEL!

There.
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #295 on: 06-25-2003 13:38 »
« Last Edit on: 06-25-2003 13:38 »

Welcome to PEEL, Less Than Hero, Cube_166 and Anarchist. I'm sorry, you can never leave. Once you've been exposed to the air you're trapped here forever. Resistance is futile!

Well, that should take care of that.   tongue

Anyway, for Bender. Yeah, they did abandon him, kinda. The problem is they really didn't have much choice. The bees would've meant instant death for Fry and Leela, where as Bedner probably would've survived. Sure he would've gotten a few holes and possibly broken a few fishbowls, but in the end he'd survive.

Besides they were close to the exit, Bender could've used his own exhasut to escape. Once he reached a safe distance the PE ship could pick him up. Or at least stand a better chance fighting of the bees that might guard him.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #296 on: 06-25-2003 14:49 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
I'm sorry, you can never leave. Once you've been exposed to the air you're trapped here forever. Resistance is futile!

No, no, no, Teral. They can't leave because we're the "Demon" copies of the originals, who think we're the originals. Class Y planet.  wink

I promise I'll never bring up "Demon" or "Course : Oblivion" again.  tongue

Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #297 on: 06-25-2003 15:02 »

Good, otherwise I might have to go off on another V'Ger rant.  wink

Then again it was good enough to be referenced in a Futurama episode, so I guess someone thought it had redeeming qualities. I'd like to meet those "someone".
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #298 on: 06-25-2003 15:42 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Anarchist:
Which brings me to another point. Did anyone notice how Leela (along with Fry) was ready to abandon Bender when they were escaping the
beehive? He got onto the ship by pure chance. What was that? I didn't like that at all.

Same here.  It's one of several wild moments in the episode that IMO stop it from being the classic it should be.
Archonix

Space Pope
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« Reply #299 on: 06-25-2003 16:33 »

Well lets see how you would react when faced with probably millions of giant bees... I get the feeling they were too busy thinking about the stingers to worry about Bender who, you might remember, is actually pretty good at taking care of himself anyway.  smile
Anarchist

Professor
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« Reply #300 on: 06-25-2003 17:14 »

True, although Fry still should have said something. Heh, I love the irony there too. If they'd gotten away a few seconds sooner and Bender didn't get onboard, they would have both been dead.
Amorpheus

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #301 on: 06-25-2003 18:15 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Anarchist:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Futurama_Hil:And many times Fry won't leave without Bender being saved.
Which brings me to another point. Did anyone notice how Leela (along with Fry) was ready to abandon Bender when they were escaping the
beehive? He got onto the ship by pure chance. What was that? I didn't like that at all.
He is a jerk, so why should they be too bothered?   smile
Anarchist

Professor
*
« Reply #302 on: 06-25-2003 18:22 »

Because he's Fry's best friend. I can see why Bender wouldn't be the first thing on Leela's mind at that moment, but Fry would care.
Amorpheus

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #303 on: 06-25-2003 18:31 »

He might have been too freaked out to think about it. Fry looked a wee bit stressed after they were out of there.
Futurama_Hil

Urban Legend
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« Reply #304 on: 06-25-2003 18:37 »

Hey, they were probably really scared and they were probably focusing on their escape.  When I'm really scared or focusing on my escape the only thing I can think about is what I'm doing.

PCC Fred, I don't think something that little can stop this from being a classic.  In fact, I think this should be a classic, all- around episode.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #305 on: 06-25-2003 19:02 »

Right now I feel like the only sober one at a party.  Practically everyone else thinks this is a truly great episode, but I just don't see it. 

Quite frankly I could kill whoever wrote the episode guides for the UK TV magazines.  I spent weeks trying to avoid spoilers on PEEL and the other Futurama sites, only to have the huge plot twist revealed to me in the frickin' Radio Times!
Amorpheus

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #306 on: 06-25-2003 19:29 »

Or maybe you're the only one drunk at [insert serious event here]!  wink
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #307 on: 06-25-2003 21:28 »
« Last Edit on: 06-25-2003 21:28 »

   
Quote
Originally posted by PCC Fred:
Right now I feel like the only sober one at a party.  Practically everyone else thinks this is a truly great episode, but I just don't see it.
Still in denial, huh?  I suppose I could send some of my people around to your place to help "convince" you of this episode's quality.

As I said earlier, I figured out the plot twist before the episode even aired, but it didn't bother me.  Some people are different, I guess.  Different meaning horribly wrong, that is.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
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« Reply #308 on: 06-26-2003 18:11 »

I watched this another two times today.  Okay, it's not as bad as my initial reaction suggested.  The jokes are good, although there aren't many laugh out loud moments, and I like the F&L scenes.

However I still think that scene where F&L leave Bender behind in the hive is a little off.  And what was with that scene where Bender was in flames for no apparent reason?
M Jackson
Professor
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« Reply #309 on: 06-26-2003 20:18 »
« Last Edit on: 06-26-2003 20:18 »

There could be another joke before it that was cut, but I think it's just a totally random and quirky joke. Bender is on fire and is reacting how a human would. When the fire is put out he calmly and casualy picks up the cigar he swallowed and continues smoking it. I liked it but it is odd though.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention in my original review how great the music is in this episode. Particularly at the begining of the funeral scene and Leela's first halucination of floating in space talking to Fry. It's deep, bitersweet and quite haunting. Cristoper Ting and his orcestra do and excellent job.
Holly J. Fry

PISS-Leader
Starship Captain
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« Reply #310 on: 06-29-2003 12:57 »

Just so schweeeet.

I liked this episode, it was strange but overall really good. Very Groening and eccentric.
Mike!

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #311 on: 06-29-2003 13:12 »

I was really surprised at the quality of this episode. A lot of the episodes recently have been nowhere near as good as the ones in the first few seasons, but this was fantastic. Good humour, great plot twist, and I loved seeing the Fry/Leela relationship through Leela's eyes for a change.

This wasn't one of the all time greats (in my opinion, the episode didn't really get going until Fry got stung), but I can safely say it's my favourite episode since 'Luck of the Fryrish', all that time ago. More like this, please! I sincerely hope that the final episode can live up to this one's standards.
davids

Starship Captain
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« Reply #312 on: 07-01-2003 15:52 »
« Last Edit on: 07-01-2003 15:52 »

I don't think I have ever laughed so hard as when at fry's funeral the amazon woman says "he did good snoo-snoo" and you see his other partners including a radiator!
M Jackson
Professor
*
« Reply #313 on: 07-01-2003 17:15 »

And the fact that the radiator is vibrating and steaming/whistling makes it even funnier!
alexvilagosh

Goose Patrol
Space Pope
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« Reply #314 on: 07-02-2003 00:31 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by davids:
I don't think I have ever laughed so hard as when at fry's funeral the amazon woman says "he did good snoo-snoo" and you see his other partners including a radiator!

I didn't laugh at that at all...  sleep
helpimchoking

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #315 on: 08-01-2003 02:23 »

thats not fair!! *cries* i didnt get to see it! i really wanna see it, it sounds soo cute!!  frown  frown hehehehe *cries*
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #316 on: 08-01-2003 08:28 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by alexvilagosh:
 I didn't laugh at that at all...   sleep
That's because you have no soul.
SpaceCase

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #317 on: 08-02-2003 05:39 »
« Last Edit on: 08-02-2003 05:39 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Action Jacktion:
   
Quote
Originally posted by alexvilagosh:
 I didn't laugh at that at all...     sleep
That's because you have no soul.

I appreciated the humor, but I didn't laugh out loud. Does that mean I have no soul either?
At least AlexVilagosh & I can get into robot conventions for free...
Invader_Tak

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #318 on: 08-04-2003 04:14 »
« Last Edit on: 08-04-2003 04:14 »

I liked it for a more serious, I lost someone I loved and those dreams where they are back and you feel wonderful becuse "everything is ok again, but then you relise you have to wake up, over and over are really emotionally shattering....

 It was wonderful to see a situation I know too well turn out with a happy ending.
Erdrik

Professor
*
« Reply #319 on: 08-04-2003 13:44 »

Crap Hole! I missed this episode, and so many others from the 'McSeason' 5  mad

And now that I know how good an episode it was, I just feel like crying!!

*takes off BDU's (Battle Dress Uniform)*
  cry   cry   cry   cry
I'm not allowed to cry in unifrom in the military.  hmpf

Call me Erdrik

Boycott Fox!! Down with the Evil OverLords!!
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