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Nixorbo
UberMod
DOOP Secretary
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doesn't the human eye see at like 60 frames per second?
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ThereIsNoSploon
Crustacean
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Futurama looks pretty high quality, but like most shows, the opening sequence is much higher quality than the show. They did say that the opening is 30 fps, but i doubt the regular animation is in 1s.
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[-mArc-]
Administrator
Liquid Emperor
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Futurama is done on 2s in most situations, but it's 2/24, not 2/30. That's what the guy responsible for the 3D animation told me quite some time back: Scott Vanzo: Hand-drawn Animation for episodic (television) production is generally animated on 2's(12 fps) for any particular movement. This cost-effective measure introduces temporal artifacts such as strobing and emphasizes video field separation due to the NTSC format and 3:2 field rate conversion(converting 24fps->30fps).
These artifacts are generally considered limitations, so the prevailing attitude among our episode Directors is to use all 24 fps of 3D animation, despite the disparity. IMHO, however - the 12 fps would be my personal preference UNLESS the motion was considerably fast or complex. Even hand-drawn animation is animated on 1's when clarity is needed or a camera pan is in effect. Perhaps a more judicious use of 1's would be more appropriate. The whole thing.
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SQFreak
Professor
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« Reply #15 on: 05-31-2003 01:17 »
« Last Edit on: 05-31-2003 01:17 »
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I thought some of it was animated by cell, which I took to mean that they draw the static background on a white sheet, then each character on a separate sheet of clear plastic, so that they can use the same sheet of clear plastic for each frame that that character is not moving. Do you understand what I'm getting at here? EDIT: Originally posted by Strat: it'd look goofy though. Our eyes only process about 11 fps but we can tell the difference between higher fps and lower fps, especially if they were shown side by side like that. Yes. That's why I (and I'll bet you) can see the difference between the 50Hz/25fps European TVs and the 60Hz/30(29.97)fps North American TVs. There's a noticeable flicker in the 50Hz electrical system countries' TVs. BTW, the dropped 0.03fps is for the discrepancy in tape counters and real-time. See http://www.video-pro.co.uk/worldtv/world.htm for something that makes sense. (I think that the drop-frame may also be used to assist in color alignment, but I'm not sure.)
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SQFreak
Professor
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But for some reason, 60Hz monitors give me a headache. I have to set mine at 72Hz or higher, which is annoying because my school's default is 60Hz.
Strat: The point is, the 134fps card is better. Who cares if that betterness is practical? Kind of like who would actually want a smart refrigerator. It's better, so to be better, people buy it.
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SQFreak
Professor
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You're very close. Since it's animated digitally, they can reuse the background and just draw the characters again. Or they could reuse the background and the characters if the characters didn't move (i.e. Fry talks but Leela and Hermes stand still and don't talk)
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Zoidberg MD
Bending Unit
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There is no limit to the FPS that the human eye can pick up. Our brain draws a smooth picture in our head. I took these 2 quotes from my bio II book: The real limit is in the viewing device, not our eyes. "The real limits here are evidenced by the viewing device, not our eyes, we can consistently pick up the flicker to prove that point. In Movies the screen is larger than life, and each screen is drawn instantaneously by the projector, but that doesn't mean you can't see the dust or scratches on each frame." "The Human Eye perceiving 220 Frames Per second has been proven, game developers, video card manufacturers, and monitor manufacturers all admit they've only scratched the surface of Frames Per Second." Ironically I was reading this thread instead of paying attention to my prof's lecture on the eye. Oh well, its a pass fail summer class
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Red Decapodian
Crustacean
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« Reply #23 on: 05-31-2003 21:36 »
« Last Edit on: 05-31-2003 21:36 »
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Part of the time is that very little of the animation is done in America, just the animatic, and then it's sent overseas to Rough Draft Korea to be finished. That's the price you pay to paint on cells, the animation looks beautiful though, so I guess it's all worth it (although there are a few episodes with weird animation direction, like "Where The Buggalo Roam" )
And Matt Groening says on the Simpsons Season 2 commentary (on "Dancing Homer" I believe), that Futurama and the Simpsons are the two remaining shows painted on cells, they were commenting on how it was weird that almost all other animation was done entirely on computers.
I'm sure Futurama has computer effects but it's not computer animated, if it were it would take a lot less time (an episode of South Park is completed in 3 to 4 days, granted Futurama is much more complex, but it would take less than a month on computers)
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Red Decapodian
Crustacean
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What about video games, for instance, the game Bangai-O for Dreamcast, when you use the Y button to do the big explosion, the animation slows down from the 30-45 FPS it was originally doing to as little as 3-4 FPS and you CLEARLY see how slow it's going, if we could only see 10 FPS than it would really be impossible to tell the difference.
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SQFreak
Professor
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There's a noticable difference between 10fps and 3fps. Let's leave it at that.
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Red Decapodian
Crustacean
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10 FPS is still pretty slow, for instance, the game Halo moves at 30 FPS and you can tell that it's noticeably slower than most games that move at 60 FPS (pretty much standard these days), so the human eye must be able to see faster than that.
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sheep555
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #30 on: 06-01-2003 08:30 »
« Last Edit on: 06-01-2003 08:30 »
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Originally posted by Red Decapodian: Part of the time is that very little of the animation is done in America, just the animatic, and then it's sent overseas to Rough Draft Korea to be finished. That's the price you pay to paint on cells...and Matt Groening says on the Simpsons Season 2 commentary (on "Dancing Homer" I believe), that Futurama and the Simpsons are the two remaining shows painted on cells Lan.Gnome is right - Futurama is not animated on cells - it's a completely digital show. This is talked about in the commentaries of Futurama (for example, when they talk about floating pegs in Mars University). Animating digitally has many advantages, such as the ease of depth of field effects, and the excellent quality when transferred to DVD. Transparency can also be achieved without havn't to use double exposures. It also enables the animators to pull off 2D / 3D composition with ease. Finally, animating digitally also makes work with layers much simpler. The Simpsons is now also animated digitally. The animators draw the character onto a graphics tablet, which is transfered onto the computer. They can then add colour using a "paint bucket" like tool. It still takes just as long to animate digitally, if not longer - but you don't need such highly skilled staff (colouring in on a computer is far easier than colouring in a cell). Nearly all of the show is still animated in Korea though, to keep costs down. Occasionaly directors will animated certain parts themselves - such as the the "monkey fight" scene in Mars University.
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MuscaDomestica
Professor
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If I remember correcctly IMAX is shown at a much larger fps speed then normal film. They found around 60fps for a film (ie not a video) has a more emotional impact.
Also that PAL is actually 30 fps instead of NTSC's 29.97 which causes no end of problems.
And To stop the image from bluring you need to have a shot of blackness inbetween the two frames. And I think Persistence of Vision was proven to be incorect... our prof just told us that didn't explain what was the actual reason.
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SQFreak
Professor
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Isn't IMax 3D basically just offsetting a copy of the image the amount that they want the image to stick out and then viewing it through polarized lenses? (I noticed this while watching a special preview showing of Ghosts of the Abyss at the Boston Aquarium that I technically didn't have tickets to, but I (err...my teacher) pleaded my (our) way in.)
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