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Author Topic: Could it have been avoided?!  (Read 767 times)
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FryBender3000

Delivery Boy
**
« on: 03-14-2003 10:26 »
« Last Edit on: 03-14-2003 10:26 »


A diffrent Take on it...

When watching Futurama and reading countless articles on CGEF, I can't help but to weep for the show and the countless possibilities and potential that it has. Yet, I wonder, could all this have been avoided... Its very possible but would you still like it...

Its possible that the hiatus, stress to the fans, and hate towards fox could of been avoided... But the price my have been that Matt Groaning, has to let Fox have some say in the show. As once stated in an article or interview (I don't remember, leave me alone!?) Fox wanted some say and Matt turned them down thus pissing of Fox, and thus Fox bringing Futurama episodes showing to a snails pace and almost killing it completely (Looks like this is about to happen). Maybe Matt should of let them have at the show a little for peek sake so overall the show can thrive a little and may still be around, maybe Matt himself torn down the walls known as Futurama by not letting Fox have some say. If he HAD gave in, Futurama would may have been the show shown before the Simpson's unlike King of the hill, and KoTH would be the one in this place. Could it have happen differently if Matt wasn't so "over-pride-ed" with the show.  As Fox would have been so input in it, and I doubt Fox could ruin the show completely (Of coarse you never know) But I am not pointing blame im just stating that would you rather have the show shown as much as it deserves with the Ads but have the influence of Fox in the show? Would it be worth it? I would have to say... Yes

Just a different view for you to look at? You might not like it, I really don't think I like it that much but none the less, something different. Maybe Matt is the say “villain” here or really did the whole thing together (Fox, Matt, everyone else in between) ruin it and F--- it all up. Man it makes me think if matt would of let Fox have some control that the show might be still on not be pre-emptied by Marge having Breast Implants.

Would the show have been that bad had that happen? Never now, would it have been for the better, you never will know, as Matt could of changed it from this happening and I am damn sure Fox could have changed it by just not worrying about Matt's choice as to not show it and just show the show regardless with ad’s and such but never meant to be. Also, Im wondering if KoTH has let Fox have some control in it?

Oh and here's some news King Of The Hill has been signed for an 8th F'N Season and Firefly (That other similar show to that of Futurama) was canceled.

Total Slaughter,
Total Slaughter.
I won't leave a single man alive.

La de da de dai,
Genocide.
La de da de duh,
An ocean of blood.

Let's begin the killing time.

~ Vash the Stampede, Trigun
drunkenangel

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #1 on: 03-14-2003 10:42 »

Yes, "Firefly" was cancelled.  But at least it recieved a clean death, none of this 'shot in the gut and left for dead in the desert' stuff, like "Futurama" is being forced to endure.  And, I do agree with your thoughts.  I think that if Groening had yielded to Fox more, then the show would have been treated better.  But on the other hand, "The Simpsons" has produced millions (I am just saying millions, it could be billions, I don't know, but you can bet your sweet booty that it is a crap load of money) for Fox in the thirteen years it's been on the air.  I think a little bit of graditude was in order.  If Futurama was allowed to breath then it would have taken its place by The "Simpsons'" side as the rightful rulers of the Galaxy. 
FryBender3000

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #2 on: 03-14-2003 10:49 »

Yeah, it should have been but I still kinda feel thats its as much as I dare say Matt's fault as it is fox's....

I can't belive I said that.
drunkenangel

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #3 on: 03-14-2003 11:02 »

What kind of control was Fox looking to wrangle from Groening anyway, was it more of a power play than a dispute of the show's content?  I mean it's Fox, so it couldn't have been about censorship.  Take a look at Fastlane, its a piece of garbage

(I swear that everyone of their promo commercials shows 1) Scantily clad woman seducing one of the costars.  2)One of the costars getting into a situation that requires a gunbattle.  3)Costars kicking in door and yelling "Really, really, extremely good looking police officers!" Its the same damn thing everytime...)

yet it gets decent treatment at Fox.  I guess this is what happens when you bend over and let fox executives take control of a program...this is what Matt wanted to avoid...(in my opinon)...I really don't think it would have been the same show if Fox had had sunken their claws into it.
FryBender3000

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #4 on: 03-14-2003 11:04 »
« Last Edit on: 03-14-2003 11:04 »

True, but i dont feel it would of changed the show THAT much...

Edit: Honestly I don't know what fox would have done if they has a little say in the show, but I don't know as its never been heard of what they wanted, only Matt knows.
CyberKnight

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #5 on: 03-14-2003 11:09 »

I believe Groening originally tried to implement some of the notes given by FOX early on, and in fact "I... Roomate" is an episode FOX wanted to counter-balance the first two episodes, which they felt would tank. And they hated it.

Then Groening said that the notes started contradicting themselves, and even contradicting what made "The Simpsons" what it is (was). So he just gave up on the notes.

Basically, my take on this is that FOX is a network - they're there to make money (which, rather surprisingly, they do). They are NOT there to write scripts and do the basic grunt-work. Groening didn't try to tell them how to run their network, so it shouldn't run vice-versa. Each side should stick to what their job description says.

And you'd be surprised how meddling from a network can screw up a show.
FryBender3000

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #6 on: 03-14-2003 11:16 »

Um... Everyone wants to make money... Fox, Matt, me, you, the people that gawk at me, and everyone else. I hate sticking up for Fox...

Can someone show me the rating of Futurama for the first 5 episodes, so we can see maybe see how they did. Also I dont blame matt for not letting fox have some of their ideas go in (The contredicting ones), but they should of found a median for the exchange of having the show be aired more and treated with more respect.
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #7 on: 03-14-2003 11:26 »

If Matt had made this, shall we say Pact With The Devil, I think Futurama would've been a markedly different show. Probulators, suicide booths and beer-guzzling robots would've been the first things to go. Matt said so himself in the audio ceommentaries to SP3K, that FOX was very worried about these things, and would like to see them toned down (read: outright cut from the show). I think Matt decision to stand up for his creation made it a better product.

If FOX had any say on Futurama we would have had "Simpsons In Space" or "Jetsons Meet Simpsons", in short: booooring!

And I can perfectly understand Matt, after the frustrating experience of not having complete creative control of the Simpsons, he didn't want to go through the endless struggles once more.

Finally, though is sucks that the show is on it's deadbed, I would rather have these amazing 72 episodes we got, than some FOX-bastard version that groaned on for 20-30 years.
Timo

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #8 on: 03-14-2003 11:37 »

Bang-on, Teral.  The show is worth watching because it is what it is.  In the same way that a rose by any other name would smell as sweet, calling milkweed "rose" does not make it worth smelling.

I only hope that we actually get to see all 72 episodes, and that they are released on DVD.
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #9 on: 03-14-2003 11:53 »

Does anyone have links to more detailed information about these recommendations and notes from Fox?  Or was it on the DVD commentary or something?

This situation is reminiscent of what J. Michael Straczynski went through with his show Crusade and TNT.  They apparently wanted lots of sex and violence, and constantly pestered him about changes to the show.  (They infamously suggested adding a "sexual explorer" to the cast, someone whose mission, for some reason, was to have sex with every kind of alien they encountered.)  I'm not sure what kind of a deal they had, but usually Straczynski won.  The thing is that the show was supposed to be a big deal for TNT, and it made them angry when they realized it wasn't what they wanted it to be, so they cancelled it after less than one season.  If Groening had let Fox have a say in the show, he probably would have argued with them as Straczynski did, and perhaps would have shortened its life span.  So maybe we're lucky that Futurama lasted as long as it did.  (And I still think the short run of Crusade was better than the last three Star Trek series.)
Timo

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #10 on: 03-14-2003 12:01 »
« Last Edit on: 03-14-2003 12:01 »

Welcome, Action Jacktion!  It's nice to see another Babylon fan here.  Oddly, there don't seem to be too many of us in this place.  I would have thought it a natural fit.

I still can't believe they cancelled Legend of the Rangers simply because they didn't realize they had put it directly opposite one of the most popular NFL playoff games in history.

It's not only Futurama that gets screwed by football.

The following had to fight tooth and nail to get what little they did:

Babylon 5: 5 seasons
Futurama: 4 seasons (though, if you go by the numbers, it's really only 3 seasons)
Crusade: 13 episodes
Legend of the Rangers: 2 hours

...yet they keep letting Rick Berman make new shows.  Not good.
bankrupt

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #11 on: 03-14-2003 12:47 »

Very few shows are given time to grow an audience these days.  Either a new show is an instant hit, or it is yanked off the air.  FOX seems to have an even quicker trigger finger than most.  Even if FOX had near total control over Futurama, I think it would be given the same treatment as today.  If the Simpsons were a brand new show today on FOX (supposing they got big on the back of another show), I wonder how long it would last?  The first season of the Simpsons was descent, but not great.  It took them a little while to become really good.  I don't think FOX would have been any more patient with it than with Futurama.  The TV buisness is too fast today.  You either make it quick, or not at all.  That's why we're left with this legacy of reality shows.  Yuck.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #12 on: 03-14-2003 13:18 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by Teral:
Finally, though is sucks that the show is on it's deadbed, I would rather have these amazing 72 episodes we got, than some FOX-bastard version that groaned on for 20-30 years.

The trouble is it's not 72 episodes, it's 62.  God knows when, or even if we'll see the other ten.

I'm past being angry about the show's cancellation.  I've accepted that no more will be produced.  But I'm flaming mad that FOX won't even air what they already have.
Lee Roberts

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #13 on: 03-14-2003 13:25 »

I just hate FOX mad
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #14 on: 03-14-2003 13:27 »

i agree with teral. If Fox had been given partial control the show would not be what it is. And it is better to have 72ish wonderful eps rather then 11-12 years of "if the simpsons lived in the future" Matt did the right thing by not giving in. Futurama may not be shown much, but when it is its quality. I'd rather have limited exposure to quality then weekly exposure to crap.
PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #15 on: 03-14-2003 13:31 »

I agree with the quality over quantity bit, I'd just prefer it if all 72 were actually aired.
Lee Roberts

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #16 on: 03-14-2003 13:37 »

I do agree aswell.
Venus

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #17 on: 03-14-2003 13:49 »

ditto
Baddblood

Crustacean
*
« Reply #18 on: 03-14-2003 14:02 »

All the bickering in the world couln't save this show. And it's sad, I loved Futurama and all the little quirky Un-PC things through out the series are what made it so enjoyable to me, I mean honestly who didn't laugh at Dr. Jesus Zoidberg? Damn the ego...
Molten Boron

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #19 on: 03-14-2003 14:06 »
« Last Edit on: 03-14-2003 14:06 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FryBender3000:

A diffrent Take on it...

When watching Futurama and reading countless articles on CGEF, I can't help but to weep for the show and the countless possibilities and potential that it has. Yet, I wonder, could all this have been avoided... Its very possible but would you still like it...

Its possible that the hiatus, stress to the fans, and hate towards fox could of been avoided... But the price my have been that Matt Groaning, has to let Fox have some say in the show. As once stated in an article or interview (I don't remember, leave me alone!?) Fox wanted some say and Matt turned them down thus pissing of Fox, and thus Fox bringing Futurama episodes showing to a snails pace and almost killing it completely (Looks like this is about to happen). Maybe Matt should of let them have at the show a little for peek sake so overall the show can thrive a little and may still be around, maybe Matt himself torn down the walls known as Futurama by not letting Fox have some say. If he HAD gave in, Futurama would may have been the show shown before the Simpson's unlike King of the hill, and KoTH would be the one in this place. Could it have happen differently if Matt wasn't so "over-pride-ed" with the show.  As Fox would have been so input in it, and I doubt Fox could ruin the show completely (Of coarse you never know) But I am not pointing blame im just stating that would you rather have the show shown as much as it deserves with the Ads but have the influence of Fox in the show? Would it be worth it? I would have to say... Yes

Just a different view for you to look at? You might not like it, I really don't think I like it that much but none the less, something different. Maybe Matt is the say “villain” here or really did the whole thing together (Fox, Matt, everyone else in between) ruin it and F--- it all up. Man it makes me think if matt would of let Fox have some control that the show might be still on not be pre-emptied by Marge having Breast Implants.

Would the show have been that bad had that happen? Never now, would it have been for the better, you never will know, as Matt could of changed it from this happening and I am damn sure Fox could have changed it by just not worrying about Matt's choice as to not show it and just show the show regardless with ad’s and such but never meant to be. Also, Im wondering if KoTH has let Fox have some control in it?

Oh and here's some news King Of The Hill has been signed for an 8th F'N Season and Firefly (That other similar show to that of Futurama) was canceled.


Firefly was canceled for having very low ratings, about half of what the last Futurama aired.  When a FOX show loses to the WB(not even found in all major cities) it gets axed.

The only way in the world Futurama be still in the air is if it has The Simpson sized ratings (9s) because the programmer would be fired for putting a high rated show on haitus.  As long as Futurama goes against 60 minutes, Dateline, Sporting Events, and Local News Futurama will at most get a (6s),  it is a lose/lose situation.

I don't see Futurama being syndicated on broadcast, therefor Futurama could only be brough back from the dead is if Fox trys to sell Futurama to another network to air, which I doubt, but maybe ~10 year were Fox won't make any money from it, they may sell it off to those old TV show right holder companies.
Damitol

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #20 on: 03-14-2003 17:02 »

To all of those who hate FOX - wait for the wheel.

They are feeling cocky right now due to the gazillions of dollars "reality" fair like Joe Millionaire and American Idol have lined their pockets with.  The good news is that these types of series are cyclical in popularity (i.e. Who Wants to be a Millionaire) and only snag viewers for a few weeks.

Fingers crossed the whole reality craze is on its final legs and Fox will soon find itself a network without much of an audience.  Character driven series are what keep viewers coming back.  Once a reality game ends, there is no rerun, syndication or home video value.

So - FOX is king of the sweeps now, but once the American public grows tired of the current reality trend - and it will as we are a very fickle audience - FOX will find itself up the proverbial creek with only the badly aging Simpsons to point to as a "hit".
Grim

Professor
*
« Reply #21 on: 03-14-2003 19:02 »

I dont think we will ever see the end of reality TV, there will always be some of it, and if one concept fails they start another, or mix one with another,

spose sorta like a fibonaci sequence, ad the last one to the next one, ie add the last failed idea to some shitty new idea, if that fails try it with the next one...

right on PCC Fred, 72 eps of pure quality as opposed to 10 thousand eps of shite, I havent watched a complete episode of the simpson probably since this time last year.
LorenzoDuke

Crustacean
*
« Reply #22 on: 03-14-2003 19:05 »

I hope you're right. And if I was Matt, I'd think with The Simpsons, I'd earned enough respect to produce a show without Fox sticking their nose in my sh*t.
Lee Roberts

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #23 on: 03-14-2003 19:13 »

Welcome to PEEL LorenzoDuke!
FryBender3000

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #24 on: 03-14-2003 19:28 »

True! True!
They just better air those 10 episodes...
I would like to hear more of the changes Fox wanted Teral...
LorenzoDuke

Crustacean
*
« Reply #25 on: 03-14-2003 19:30 »

Thanks, good to be here. Check out my ranting thread, I'm on good form tonight. ;-)
Carbito

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #26 on: 03-14-2003 22:26 »

It's sad that it has to be this way.
But there is no use playing the "what if" game, its to late for Matt to go back now. frown
FryBender3000

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #27 on: 03-14-2003 22:45 »

Now where did I put my What-If? Machine and doomsday devices...
clampybot

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #28 on: 03-14-2003 23:10 »

The show is dooooomed if I lived in the U.S I'd do some serious hunting.

"Be very very cwiet i'm hunting Fox's."    laff

POOR POOR Kenny.....

He's back for another season!
Teral

Helpy McHelphelp
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #29 on: 03-15-2003 07:13 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by FryBender3000:
I would like to hear more of the changes Fox wanted Teral...

They're all from the audio commentaries, and I've already left enough spoilers around PEEL to get oin the wrong side of a lynch mob, so I put it in spoiler tags.


Don't confuse not caring with not knowing!
Lee Roberts

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #30 on: 03-15-2003 08:55 »

What gets me is that, Fox so more programmes that are new! Do we want to see them, No. Well sometime depends on what it is, but when it is on at the time Futurama is on then you can see why Fox are S**t in excellent programmes! By excellent I mean Futurama!

BNLbum

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #31 on: 03-15-2003 11:57 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by PCC Fred:
 The trouble is it's not 72 episodes, it's 62.  God knows when, or even if we'll see the other ten.

I'm past being angry about the show's cancellation.  I've accepted that no more will be produced.  But I'm flaming mad that FOX won't even air what they already have.

I agree, but take solace in the fact that, eventually, we will see every episode. We may have to buy the season four DVD to see them, but we will see them.

By releasing the first season on DVD in the US, FOX has admitted that this show sells. They won't be able to deny it once the DVD is released, as I'm sure it will be on the top ten DVD sales charts. And if there's one thing FOX loves, its money. All four seasons will make it to DVD -- Look, season three's already almost out in Europe. I waited for the US DVD, but if season four is released over there before they finish airing the episodes, then of course I'll be importing...

It will be sad if we have to watch the final few episodes on DVD, but only because that entails an obscenely long wait. To watch new Futurama without commercials about what idiotic shows FOX is replacing it with -- Now that would be a breath of fresh air.

PCC Fred

Space Pope
****
« Reply #32 on: 03-15-2003 12:04 »

 
Quote
Originally posted by BNLbum:
 I agree, but take solace in the fact that, eventually, we will see every episode. We may have to buy the season four DVD to see them, but we will see them.

Since I was planning on buying the DVDs anyway, not a big issue with me.

 
Quote
It will be sad if we have to watch the final few episodes on DVD, but only because that entails an obscenely long wait.

If FOX plan on releasing the S4 DVDs before all the episodes have aired, then by definition it'll actually be a shorter wait for the DVDs than for waiting for the episode to air on TV.
FryBender3000

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #33 on: 03-16-2003 15:36 »

Yeah, im very well planning on buying the dvd set when it comes out later, but yeah Teral... Those request are stupid and outlandish and I can see why Matt decided not to change them.
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #34 on: 03-16-2003 19:48 »

Fox might just run out the series over the summer.  I think that's what ABC did with The Critic, before the show was saved by... Fox!  (But they cancelled it fairly quickly.)

But if Fox decides not to show the last episodes, maybe they will premier on Cartoon Network.  It's showing the series through "Where No Fan..." and will undoubtedly show the more recent episodes.  But CN probably doesn't have enough money to support new episodes.
aslate

Space Pope
****
« Reply #35 on: 03-16-2003 19:51 »

I looked at the TV schedule on CN, they go up to Where No Fan and then restart at Space Pilot 3000.
Action Jacktion

Professor
*
« Reply #36 on: 03-16-2003 20:01 »

I know they're restarting it, but I meant that eventually they'll get to the new episodes, and if Fox doesn't show them, you may be able to see them on CN before the DVD.
Prowla RX7

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #37 on: 03-16-2003 22:20 »

Or Fox comes up with a plan to release the last 10 as "Never Seen Before" episodes... The bastards... And there will be people who will buy them because they want it.  Even if the majority of those who buy it won't be people like us.
Erdrik

Professor
*
« Reply #38 on: 03-17-2003 02:47 »

Ill probly end up buying both imported and US versions of all 4 seasons.  tongue

Matt did right by not giving in, But I think he is in fault for not fighting harder for the show.

As for how I feel about fox?
v
v
v
v
mad

But if you would perfer a less... offensive... expresion of my undying hatred toward fox...

They're all moronic retards that wouldn't know a good show if it walked up and bit them on the nose.
...
...
bastards.
 mad

Call me Erdrik

Boycott Fox!! Down with the Evil OverLords!!
Holly J. Fry

PISS-Leader
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #39 on: 03-17-2003 06:14 »

As it stands, Futurama will always be a good, solid, cult show with a following. If Groening had allowed FOX to influence it, it might run and run, but it wouldn't be of any great quality.

I think quality of episodes is worth more than quantity.
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