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Author Topic: Question about episode 6ACV07 - "The late Philip J. Fry". [Spoilers]  (Read 4871 times)
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DrOcsid

Poppler
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« on: 06-14-2013 08:37 »
« Last Edit on: 06-14-2013 08:42 »

So, I just watched this episode and was confused a bit. So, when Fry, Farnsworth and Bender traveled so far into the future that they ended up back where they were at first, they had gone through two "Cycles" of the universe. Farnsworth states that an identical copy of the universe is being created each "cycle". They finally stop in the third "cycle". Does this mean that the rest of the series takes place billions upon billions of years later then the previous episodes, and that all the characters in the show are now essentially clones of the ones from previous episodes, aside from Fry, Farnsworth and Bender? If so, that seems rather depressing to me, considering that there would be two iterations of Leela that would have never seen fry again. Furthermore, if this is true, then wouldn't the Fry, Farnsworth and Bender from the third universe (the ones that were crushed and killed by the time machine) would be identical copies of the originals and thus not be any kind of paradox? I don't know, maybe I am overanalyzing this. Then again, it's rather hard to overanalyze a show like this. I would just like some clarification.
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
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« Reply #1 on: 06-14-2013 08:58 »

Technically, the show does take place billion of years after the prior episodes. But all the events from the before they took off in the time machine still occurred in this new timeline, with only a few changes (Elanor Roosevelt shot). So it doesn't particularly change much in the grand scheme of things.

And it is somewhat tragic that the original Leela ended up alone and miserable, just as it's both dark (and amusing) that the Fry, Bender, and Professor of the third timeline were abruptly killed off after going through all the same adventures prior to TLPJF.
DrOcsid

Poppler
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« Reply #2 on: 06-14-2013 09:35 »

Technically, the show does take place billion of years after the prior episodes. But all the events from the before they took off in the time machine still occurred in this new timeline, with only a few changes (Elanor Roosevelt shot). So it doesn't particularly change much in the grand scheme of things.

And it is somewhat tragic that the original Leela ended up alone and miserable, just as it's both dark (and amusing) that the Fry, Bender, and Professor of the third timeline were abruptly killed off after going through all the same adventures prior to TLPJF.

Well, that's rather disappointing. I know this show has its dark and sometimes sad moments, but I really didn't like this. The episode was fantastic, but the whole idea of the ending is really sad to me. I wish they could have ended it a different way.
Beamer

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #3 on: 06-14-2013 10:03 »

It's been implied several times in Futurama that there's a plethora of alternate universes/realities/timelines in the show (ie. The Farnsworth Parabox, The Why of Fry, Bender's Big Score). They can't all be winners.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #4 on: 06-14-2013 10:10 »
« Last Edit on: 06-14-2013 10:16 »

The "new universe, identical to the old one" is what Farnsworth said.
He just could have been wrong about that. A Big Bang "after" the ending Universe was a major surprise, and he came up with the first explanation he shook out of this sleeve:
Not really a careful scientific research, after all.

Personally, I do like the human hybris implied by Farnsworth de facto rejecting the "just one, cyclically repeating universe" theory:

Humans are used to a linear time perception, and a Big Bang as the Universe End is therefore quite unexpected:

- Our whole perception could be wrong, because the whole universe just showed us a that cyclical behaviour.
- We insist that only OUR limited point of view is the only correct one, no matter what the universe shows us.  So, instead of questioning his own time perception, Farnsworth stubbornly sticks to it.  So, he expects that rather a new Universe has to be created, instead of the old one being allowed to behave against Farnsworth expectations.

I appreciate the underlying irony:
After the whole episode showed the characters tiny and helpless against the huge, uncaring, mercyless universe, Fanrsworth STILL insists that the Universe has to folllow his expectations big grin

They can't all be Winnas.

Fixed it for you big grin
Quantum Neutrino Field

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #5 on: 06-14-2013 12:11 »

So, when Fry, Farnsworth and Bender traveled so far into the future that they ended up back where they were at first, they had gone through two "Cycles" of the universe. Farnsworth states that an identical copy of the universe is being created each "cycle". They finally stop in the third "cycle". Does this mean that the rest of the series takes place billions upon billions of years later then the previous episodes, and that all the characters in the show are now essentially clones of the ones from previous episodes, aside from Fry, Farnsworth and Bender?

How I see it; the same things happen over and over again as a cycle, but we can think them as separte timelines with minor changes due timetravel, as UrL said.

But if universe begins and ends cycles infinite times, technically different point of time becomes meaningless. And if it's every time identical, there's then no need to talk about universes happeneing at different point in time. But I don't know how these "changes" affect to this.


I appreciate the underlying irony:
After the whole episode showed the characters tiny and helpless against the huge, uncaring, mercyless universe, Fanrsworth STILL insists that the Universe has to folllow his expectations big grin

He is THE PROFESSOR!
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #6 on: 06-14-2013 12:12 »
« Last Edit on: 06-14-2013 12:14 »

He is THE PROFESSOR!

THE PROFESSOR: "I am THE PROFESSOR. I travel through time and space!"
THE DOCTOR: "IMPOSTER!!! I WAS THERE FIRST!!!! "
tongue
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #7 on: 06-14-2013 13:28 »
« Last Edit on: 06-14-2013 13:39 by totalnerduk »

Didn't we do this to death several times already? I know I've gone over this before a million times.



Short explanation with further diagrams.

Summary of Cyclical Time Theory.

One of many posts talking about Cyclical Time vs. Cyclical Universes.

So. One last time.

The universe shown in TLPJF is a cyclical one. Time is a loop, with the decay of the universe marking the end, which allows the quantum vacuum fluctuation responsible for the Big Bang to occur. This marks the beginning.

The universe is the same one, the timeline is the same one, and the events are the same. The characters are the same. It's like a looped cassette tape. It goes round and around and around, never stopping, always playing the same song. Differences within the timeline are like static/noise on the tape. These differences are also ironed out over time by the predisposition of events to turn out a certain way: the timeline is the same "shape" each time, and time has an effect similar to inertia that will "pull" things towards happening a certain way. If you kill Hitler, somebody else will fill his shoes. If you assassinate Eleanor Roosevelt, it's not going to matter a damn. If your robot stomps on a lizard, it's not going to affect the larger picture. In addition, whatever you do to change the course of events in one playback of the universe/timeline, it'll go as it was meant to for the next one, unless you interfere again.

This time theory fits in with the other methods of time travel used in the show. It helps to maintain a consistent model.

The idea of an endless cycle of universes, one after another, doesn't hold up so well - in particular, this would mean multiple branching realities occur, which conflicts with the model of time travel as seen in RTEW, TWOF, BBS, ATPH, and D3012 where one timeline to which changes are made is shown on screen.

"Goofs" discussion for TLPJF.

Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #8 on: 06-15-2013 00:17 »

I know I've gone over this before a million times.


I told you a thousand billion times not to exaggerate... big grin tongue
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