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Author Topic: Thoughts on 7ACV08 - Fun on a Bun - SPOILERS  (Read 12620 times)
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PEE Poll: 1 = bad, 10 = good!
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sparkybarky

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #120 on: 08-03-2012 21:07 »

Thanks, Mongo! As you said (I think), the earliest homo sapiens are from sub-Sahara Africa. So, does that mean that they were dark-skinned and had features like modern day Africans? Is the divergent qualities of Euro-Asian features in part due to the presence of the Neanderthal DNA, or other hominid DNA? I'm sure that there is a well-known explanation or theory of this, but I have been out of the evolutionary biological science loop for quite some time.

Quote
So evidently, Cro-Magnons (early modern humans) and Neanderthals did interbreed when given the opportunity.  Not that this surprises me, knowing what humans are like

Implying that us homo sapiens are man-sluts and skank hos? Why yes, I concur. smile
Mongo

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #121 on: 08-03-2012 21:29 »
« Last Edit on: 08-03-2012 21:31 »

My understanding is that yes, the first modern humans to reach Europe did look like their African relatives.  Changes like much lighter skin and hair colour take a LOT of time to evolve, most likely hundreds of thousands of years.  The Neanderthals had occupied the area south of the ice sheets for around 300,000 years, so they had time to evolve pale skin and red/blond hair.  The modern human newcomers, on the other hand, had only left sub-Saharan Africa fairly recently by evolutionary standards.  They had reached the Near East around 25,000 years before reaching Europe, if I remember correctly, which was not enough time to have changed their appearance all that much.

Given the European climate and solar UV levels, pale skin would have been a huge competitive advantage and would have swiftly spread through the modern human population, once the genes coding for it had been introduced through modern humans interbreeding with Neanderthals.

As for east Asians, we know that other subspecies of humans lived there before modern humans appeared (including one variety that was only discovered in the fossil record in the last few years), and I would not be surprised if they also interbred with newly arrived modern humans.  I believe that there is a project underway to extract the ancient DNA from these fossils and compare it to DNA from present-day east Asians, but I have not heard any results from this yet.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #122 on: 08-03-2012 22:15 »

Wait, so it's thanks to neanderthals that we have redhead women?

For that, they will forever have my respect and gratitude.
sparkybarky

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #123 on: 08-03-2012 22:22 »

Damn, Mongo! Quite impressive. Are you some kind of scientific researcher, hence your avatar? smile Is there an article you can point me to, about the subspecies in Asia and the fossil DNA comparison?

DotheBartman, it would be so nice if all the countries in the world could establish "Neanderthal Appreciation Day," because really, they are unfairly maligned. If they gave us sexy and fiery redheads, then we must feast in their honor. However, I wonder if I romanticize them and they really didn't do the things that some researchers claim they did: bury their dead, make tools, create art, etc. At least, that's my vague recollection of the last cheesy documentary that I watched on Discovery Channel.
Dorsal Axe

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #124 on: 08-03-2012 22:32 »
« Last Edit on: 08-03-2012 22:33 »

Some brief thoughts. I loved this episode, much more so on a second viewing. I find the first act a bit strange, but the second act is very strong. The third act is absolutely hilarious, with a solid ending that isn't rushed or forced. I'd rather an episode to have a dodgy first act than third.

Lots of good gags. The escape pod reminded me of a particular Simpsons episode. In a good way. The battle sequence was really impressively animated. In fact, there was a lot of scenes before that were presented quite well, specifically Zoidberg's head slowly rising when the crew tried to avoid mentioning Fry to Leela.

A few nitpicky things:
-Elzar's voice was way off, for whatever reason. He sounded just like Bender at one point.  no no
-Zapp was great, but the way he was integrated into the episode felt a little rushed. He appears... then suddenly the Neanderthals attack. Luckily that was the only point that this episode did actually feel rushed.
-I found it kinda weird how not one person remarked on how Fry was actually still alive. Or questioned why he was suddenly a Neanderthal warlord. But I guess they just didn't have time.

Conclusion: 9/10. More of this future insanity, and less commentary please.
Mongo

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #125 on: 08-03-2012 22:36 »
« Last Edit on: 08-03-2012 22:39 »

No, I simply have had a life-long interest in palaeo-anthropology, and picked up a variety of information over the years.

The recently discovered human subspecies are the Denisovans:

Quote
In March 2010, scientists announced the discovery of a finger bone fragment of a juvenile female that lived about 41,000 years ago, found in the remote Denisova Cave in the Altai mountains in Siberia, a region also inhabited at about the same time by Neanderthals and perhaps modern humans. A tooth and toe bone belonging to different members of the same population have since been found.

Analysis of the mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA) of the finger bone showed it to be genetically distinct from the mtDNAs of Neanderthals and modern humans. Subsequent study of the nuclear genome from this specimen suggests this group shares a common origin with Neanderthals, they ranged from Siberia to Southeast Asia, and they lived among and interbred with the ancestors of some present-day modern humans, with up to 6% of the DNA of Melanesians and Australian Aborigines deriving from Denisovans. Similar analysis of a toe bone discovered in 2011 is underway.

So they may have played the same role among Melanesians and related people that Neanderthals did with Europeans.

LetTheSunRain

Crustacean
*
« Reply #126 on: 08-03-2012 23:19 »

Random thought that will most likely be skipped over but I really feel the need to mention: when Leela was getting her memories wiped and her hair was all scraped into those weird foil things, I couldn't help thinking she looked like Yivo...
That is all smile
futz
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #127 on: 08-03-2012 23:48 »

Great episode.

I thought Elzar's voice was off in this episode and the episode most recently where
he has a scene (forget which one). It's like someone else is doing it or they're slipping
in last minute changes with someone else.

I'd like to see an animated .gif of Leela's Chicken Dance if anyone's that ambitious.
Crash_7

Professor
*
« Reply #128 on: 08-04-2012 01:12 »

Finally got around to watching it.  Mighty good.  I give it a 9.  Probably the best of the new season so far.

"Where happened? What am I?"  Reminded me of a line from Adventure Time.  A guy answered a door with "Who's the heck happenin' what?" 
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #129 on: 08-04-2012 02:36 »

Watched it again, enjoyed it even more, but it now bugs me that the Neanderthals spoke English (with American accents) despite being cut off from humanity by ice for thousands of years, way before English existed, AND living in Germany where people clearly still predominantly speak German. All it would have taken was a quick "put in your babel fish so that you can understand what the Germans are saying" type exchange before arriving at Oktoberfest.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #130 on: 08-04-2012 04:04 »

And just like that, I hate Leela again.
Professor Zoidy

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #131 on: 08-04-2012 04:16 »
« Last Edit on: 08-04-2012 04:17 »

#cyber_turnip: But where's the fun in that? Forget translation. Just have 'em speak in Deutsche. Anyone who can't understand German ist ein dummkopf.


Nah, I'm kiddin', and you bring up a great point. Could've been prime game for throwing in a reference/joke but seeing all the little missteps thus far in the new run, it's not shocking that the opportunity was looked over. It also doesn't bug me as much as some of the other things that've happened this season so take that at whatever value you set it at. I also agree Elzar wasn't really himself in this. Seems like John is rusty at doing the character's voice or something. Not really surprising if it's more of an "evolution" thing though because from S4 to current, Bender's voice has changed a bit in my opinion. To me it seems like John's voice has gotten less nasally over time or somethin'.

@Wazn, care to expand? I do so love to read your lengthy opinions.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #132 on: 08-04-2012 04:30 »

Well, I really hated how they made Leela overreact to Fry's Oktoberfest rampage.  Even without you taking in that Fry is used to a very different version of the event, she still came across as a petty bitch for dumping him over something so inane.   I did think the line about Fry saying 'We're together?!?!" was a pretty sly nod to the fan reaction to their on and off relationship, but it would have been far more justified if she had said it in the Butterjunk effect, after seeing Amy and Fry together but before they explained what was happening.    And the way she casually deleted her memories of him made me dislike her even more.   If they had presented this as a last resort and she was really on the verge of a nervous breakdown, rather then something that Leela did almost straight away, then this would have been less unlikable on her part.    The annoying thing is, as Gorky said, was how absolutely unnecessary it was for her to dump Fry.  Having them have a major lover's quarrel would have not affected the plot at all. By having Leela be such a complete bitch in the first act (dumping Fry over something so petty and meaningless after all they've been through together, and then having her casually erase her memories of him), it ended up ruining what would have been some absolutely adorable moments in the last act for me.  
Mongo

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #133 on: 08-04-2012 04:35 »
« Last Edit on: 08-04-2012 04:37 »

Watched it again, enjoyed it even more, but it now bugs me that the Neanderthals spoke English (with American accents) despite being cut off from humanity by ice for thousands of years, way before English existed, AND living in Germany where people clearly still predominantly speak German. All it would have taken was a quick "put in your babel fish so that you can understand what the Germans are saying" type exchange before arriving at Oktoberfest.

I am not bothered by that, since the PE crew apparently speak English with almost every alien species they meet, even the ones that have never had contact with humans before.  Why should English-speaking Neanderthals be any more surprising than the English-speaking robots in "A Clockwork Origin"?

The only time we see non-English-speaking aliens is when it serves the plot -- i.e. the shark aliens in "Zapp Dingbat".
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #134 on: 08-04-2012 04:37 »

Yeah, I can give that pass, despite him having a point.

Is it bad that I found the whole "ecosystem under the ice" thing a bit hard to swallow? 
Mongo

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #135 on: 08-04-2012 04:40 »

Although I was greatly amused when during the big reveal shot of the under-the-ice ecosystem, the saber-toothed cat starts to "clean" itself in a very housecat-like way.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #136 on: 08-04-2012 04:42 »

Yes, and the scene with the saber toothed cat-urpault was hilarious = I genuinely was not expecting that. 

The scene with Hermes and the Sloth was stupid.  That joke has been done to death. 
koldstare64
Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #137 on: 08-04-2012 04:46 »

And the way she casually deleted her memories of him made me dislike her even more.   If they had presented this as a last resort and she was really on the verge of a nervous breakdown, rather then something that Leela did almost straight away, then this would have been less unlikable on her part.

She thought she ate him. Nothing casual about it.
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #138 on: 08-04-2012 04:48 »

The scene with Hermes and the Sloth was stupid.  That joke has been done to death. 
The only thing that made it bearable to me was the payoff when Hermes is being held by the sloth later on.  Maybe I'll warm up to it more, IDK.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #139 on: 08-04-2012 05:03 »

I did like the cuddles. 

Even if she thought she ate him, completely erasing every memory she's ever had of him like that felt pretty casual to me.  If they had shown a bit more of her anguish, and the crew convincing her to get the the op for her own sanity, then I would understand a bit better.  When Bender chose to Ben's memories of him, it was played for much more drama.
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #140 on: 08-04-2012 05:27 »

Even if she thought she ate him, completely erasing every memory she's ever had of him like that felt pretty casual to me.  If they had shown a bit more of her anguish, and the crew convincing her to get the the op for her own sanity, then I would understand a bit better.  When Bender chose to Ben's memories of him, it was played for much more drama.
I agree.  Probably can chalk that one up to time constraints.

I'm gonna make my case on why Leela breaking up with Fry in FOAB isn't OOC or excessive for her.   The reason for this is specifically because she was publicly embarrassed by Fry.  As I've said before, the last two times this has happened were pretty egregious abuses of trust on Fry's part.  First, after being explicitly asked to delete the video of her butt boil, he instead posts it on the net in a selfish play to win a pointless bet.  Second, Fry lets slip Leela's greatest secret (that she is a mutant) in a very public setting, causing her to be thrown out and banished.  He even goes so far as to call her "ill-bred" while doing so.  If there was one secret of hers to keep, that was it, and he blew it.  (Granted, both of those incidents ended up with a positive conclusion, but that's beside the point of breaking trust.)

Combine this with a childhood of being singled out, picked on and embarrassed in front of others, it is not a stretch to see how she is particularly sensitive to this sort of thing.  That's why she broke up with him, probably on impulse.  She may not have even meant to really break up with him, but those were the words that came out.  Later on, when she is eating the sausage, she asks where Fry is in a nonchalant way, as if she had forgotten that they had broken up at all.  Was it necessary for them to break up?  No, but it does make sense when you account for their history.
MuchAdo

Professor
*
« Reply #141 on: 08-04-2012 09:27 »
« Last Edit on: 08-04-2012 09:30 »

The two people who voted one out of ten...

probably have mental issues or life issues right now.

That's insanely too low.

If you voted 7/10.. that's cool and I respect that opinion.

But a 1/10.. wow, please just leave these fourms, and then never watch the show ever again, thanks!
Professor Zoidy

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #142 on: 08-04-2012 10:09 »

I voted 7/10 but I didn't really mean it. I was going off of what I vaguely remembered from Wednesday and didn't really think it over. S'what I get for waiting a few days to get my opinion in. Voting again I'd got for at least an 8/10 if not higher. That being said, I do wish to know the opinions of who voted such a low score though. I cannot imagine how someone could so strongly dislike this episode, but I know it's not impossible.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #143 on: 08-04-2012 10:22 »
« Last Edit on: 08-04-2012 11:09 »

That being said, I do wish to know the opinions of who voted such a low score though.

7/10 is basically quite above average.
After all, what's the sense in a 1-10 rating system, when people are "expected" to vote "8-10" only ?
(Or did your "low score" refer to the 1-2 ratings? In that case, forget what I just said wink )
Professor Zoidy

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #144 on: 08-04-2012 10:26 »

Pointless, to be certain. I just wish to know opinions of those who rated it in the 1-2 area. *shrugs* I meant no more, no less. After all, we're here for discussions and I'd be interested in what those voters think in depth if they have not already posted here before now expressing such thoughts.

Edit: Beat me to it, good sir.  laff
cake
Crustacean
*
« Reply #145 on: 08-04-2012 12:39 »

Pointless, to be certain. I just wish to know opinions of those who rated it in the 1-2 area. *shrugs* I meant no more, no less. After all, we're here for discussions and I'd be interested in what those voters think in depth if they have not already posted here before now expressing such thoughts.

Edit: Beat me to it, good sir.  laff
Well it's obviously this guy posted from 2 accounts.
Bouncy Rhythm http://www.futurama-madhouse.net/forum/index.php?topic=4732.0
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #146 on: 08-04-2012 12:45 »
« Last Edit on: 08-04-2012 13:41 »

probably have mental issues or life issues right now.

Definitely Unmentionable.

Well, looks like Zapp actually goes "au naturelle" underneath that smooth velours.

Spot it, freeze it, regret it.

I hate to ask, but where? I doubt the animators would actually draw something down there, unless it was a gag or something so it made it look like a penis...

*edit*

I like how they put up a black flag at PE when they think Fry is dead. laff
Mr Snrub

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #147 on: 08-04-2012 14:00 »
« Last Edit on: 08-04-2012 14:01 »

The reason for this is specifically because she was publicly embarrassed by Fry.  As I've said before, the last two times this has happened were pretty egregious abuses of trust on Fry's part.  First, after being explicitly asked to delete the video of her butt boil, he instead posts it on the net in a selfish play to win a pointless bet.  Second, Fry lets slip Leela's greatest secret (that she is a mutant) in a very public setting, causing her to be thrown out and banished.  He even goes so far as to call her "ill-bred" while doing so.  If there was one secret of hers to keep, that was it, and he blew it.  (Granted, both of those incidents ended up with a positive conclusion, but that's beside the point of breaking trust.)
I don't think you can compare Fry getting drunk at oktoberfest to him revealing Leela was a mutant, or, to a lesser extent, the singing butt boil. In this case, he had no intention of embarrassing Leela. And did he really? It's not like all the snooty guests were having a go at Leela for his behaviour. The embarrassment came from Leela being ashamed of Fry which, unlike Mutants are Revolting and Killer App, is her own call. And I don't buy the whole 'it's the straw that broke the camels back' reason either.

I also sorta fail to see how Leela getting picked on as a kid relates to her breaking up with Fry. She was terribly humiliated at the orphanage, yes, but the circumstances are different here. She always hated being the focus point, but she wasn't in this case. Same could be said about her being laughed at. There are different types of embarrassment. I get embarrassed when I see my dad dance, but I don't freak out and get flashbacks to when people threw oranges at me in school.

I like how they put up a black flag at PE when they think Fry is dead. laff
Was it at half mast?
Deely

Crustacean
*
« Reply #148 on: 08-04-2012 14:48 »

Quote
I hate to ask, but where? I doubt the animators would actually draw something down there, unless it was a gag or something so it made it look like a penis...

During the Flintstones gag. Don't worry, there's no ding-dongs in sight, just Zapp's majestic velour-draped velvet buns. I don't even think it's a deliberate gag/easter egg, but they couldn't just leave it undrawn.

It does in a small way link in with Kiff's reaction (in a previous episode) when he had to climb a ladder right after Zapp.

Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #149 on: 08-04-2012 16:25 »

One point of criticism:
During the kiss scene, there were enough blank spaces in the background that chould have been filled with more battle details (I like details wink ).
You probably didn't expect that criticism coming from me, though.. big grin tongue
MYK

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #150 on: 08-04-2012 17:16 »

Another subtle gag:

When they first get to Oktoberfest and Fry is told to shut up, the small classical band is playing a slow, much calmer version of "Roll out the Barrel", a famous Czech drinking song.

Fun fact: It's also played during Milwaukee Brewers baseball games and Green Bay Packers football games.  (Wisconsin's famous for its German and other Central European heritage)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_Barrel_Polka

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SfyObUd5e8
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #151 on: 08-04-2012 17:44 »

Was it at half mast?

Yep. smile
Mr Snrub

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #152 on: 08-04-2012 23:48 »

Somewhere, KurtPikachu watched the Fry/Leela fight and his face melted in rage, Raiders of the Lost Ark style.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #153 on: 08-05-2012 00:01 »
« Last Edit on: 08-05-2012 00:13 »

What I disliked about the fight:

I started really great (Mammoth vs Spaceship was hilarious), and the "pursuer camera" following Fry's jump was a great scene layout.

But then, they both just held to the spear. It was basically like two theater actors struggling for a weapon: They will both hold to it, move it a bit forward and backward to show that struggle in a "identifieable enough" way, while reciting their dialog.

Okay, Futurama has seen worse combat scenes, and it was identifieable what was going up. Yet, imhO it was a pity to start a scene so strongly, so carefully laid out...then suddenly to drop it to a "Oh, what the heck..that's good enough" basis.

(Though I am pretty sure I am one of very few people who thinks that way. Yet, I have a thing for carefully laid out fighting scenes, and when the fight started, I though "Wow!! This looks like someone REALLY wants to show some great action scene". So hope you understand why I was a bit disappointed....)
El-Man

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #154 on: 08-05-2012 03:03 »

That fight scene is probably the best we're gonna get. We'll never see anything laid out as nice as a Jet Li vs. Donnie Yen fight.

If only the producers would hire Yuen Woo-ping for one kickass sequence...
CookiesOnTheFloor
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #155 on: 08-05-2012 04:59 »

That...was...PERFECT!!!

Best Fry/Leela ep since "The Sting"!
SpaceMaN

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #156 on: 08-05-2012 05:06 »

I thought the premise was dumb but the jokes were funny, and that's really all that matters to me.
Inquisitor Hein
Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #157 on: 08-05-2012 07:15 »

The discovery of the Neanderthal tribe had some sort of Duck-Tales vibe for me (the dirtier jokes aside).
WAVer

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #158 on: 08-05-2012 08:03 »

Hm. I find myself having an issue.. confused This episode is so good, I find myself watching it at least twice a day. Is that normal? I need to know.  laff
Professor Zoidy

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #159 on: 08-05-2012 08:38 »

Normal-ish. If the problem persists for more than a year, consult your doctor.
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