Everything Is Worse Now! (Part II)

[on:]

So, is the revived series better or worse than the original four seasons of Futurama?

That's the question, and the answer is complicated (as well as pretty subjective).

Reviews are one way to judge episode quality, and Svip's review board is probably the most comprehensive (although lacking in contributions somewhat), although CGEF's Episode Guide is more comprehensive.

Representing these graphically has been done by various people, with differing degrees of clarity.

But the topic continues to be debated. Some people claim that Futurama is just as good as it ever was, whilst some people claim that the show is now in decline. Longtime viewers are pretty much split down the middle on this, whilst people who've gotten into it partway through seem to feel overall that the longtimers are wearing "nostalgia goggles".

So what's your take on this, and can you justify it to us?

[Reply #1 on:]

I think the revival, although it has lost some of the old school fans, has gained it a lot more new fans.

And if you ignore the pop-culture, it's just as good as the OR. If you let 1 or 2 pop-culture references ruin new eps for you there is a problem.

[Reply #2 on:]

Futurama is borderline worthless now. Where did it all go wrong? It really started with the first movie.

[Reply #3 on:]

And if you ignore the pop-culture, it's just as good as the OR. If you let 1 or 2 pop-culture references ruin new eps for you there is a problem.

It's not just the (frankly out-of-place) pop culture references that cause complaints though, Danny. It's the way that the writers now play fast-and-loose with continuity, the way that the characters don't age anymore, the way that there's more (and more blatant) cartoon logic... there's a list of things that mark the new episodes as somewhat different.

If you graph the review scores from CGEF, you'll see more lows than highs, and lower lows than much of the preceeding work, too. When it manages to hit a high note, Futurama still does it brilliantly well - but when it does that, it's usually in an episode that's free of the common flaws I've mentioned.

I think that overall, it's weak and annoyingly cartoon-y endings that ruin new episodes for me (such as TBJE and TSMDM) most often. I mean, there are still some good ones (and so the show's still worth watching for now), but I feel that the revived show does have its problems, which new fans tend to ignore and old fans tend to either jump on or try to make excuses for (which typically don't really stand up to scrutiny).

Which is why I said that the answer is complicated.

Futurama is borderline worthless now. Where did it all go wrong? It really started with the first movie.

I think that this is too far in the other direction, personally. It's not all bad right now, it's just that there are problems with the show now, and only the episodes that manage to be free from those end up being "great". I do wonder if perhaps fans are a little spoiled and perhaps feel entitled to more, due to such an overall high-quality initial run (the first four seasons).

Bender's Big Score certainly had problems, but I find that on repeat viewings a lot of them are forgivable. It's certainly almost as smart and funny as the best episodes of the original run (even if that one song is incredibly annoying), and it's not the continuity trainwreck it's made out to be.

[Reply #4 on:]

It's hit its rough patches here and there, but overall I don't think the quality of Futurama has declined.

Seasons one through four were overall, excellent. But they weren't perfect, there were still some episodes that seemed silly or rushed.

The 4 movies were inconsistent in my opinion. "Beast With a Billion Backs" and "Bender's Game" were nothing special, while I enjoyed "Bender's Big Score" and "Into the Wild Green Yonder". However, I think a lot of this comes from the change in format. Futurama feels more natural as a 30 minute episode rather than a 90-120 minute movie. With the large increase of time, the writers are going to try new things, and understandably, not all of them will work. So I guess you could say there was a decline in quality here, but I don't think it was from a lack of effort-it was because there were less stories. Two average movies out of four is going to look a lot worse than two mediocre episodes in a season with approximately 20 episodes.

Season 6 ("Rebirth" to "Reincarnation") is usually the cornerstone of this debate. And after "Rebirth" there was a string of average, forgettable episodes. It wasn’t quite as consistent as the original run. However, the season as a whole was able to correct its earlier mistakes in later episodes, and I believe the inconsistency was due to various reasons:


1) The debate on whether to make Futurama a more risque show because of the transition from FOX to Comedy Central. At the time of writing it seems that Futurama has settled closer to its cleaner, subtler FOX roots.

2) Getting back into the swing of writing 30-minute episodes isn’t going to happen overnight. As smart and creative as the writers of Futurama are, they’re still human and you can’t expect perfection.
 
3) The uncertainty as to how long the show would persevere-as far as we know, Season 7 could be the swan song.

3a) Uncertainty as to where the show would be headed in terms of plot.  


Now to the present.  I think Season 7 overall has been of similar quality to the original run, honestly. It’s been fairly consistent in terms of writing. The humor’s still strong. The writers still know how to keep us rooting for the characters. The pop culture references that so many complained about in season 6 have been considerably toned down. 



Fry and Leela have both become more likable as compared to season 6, where in some instances, Fry was whiny and dramatic, while Leela was much too easily annoyed, even cold and callous at times. They both seem more mature this season, perhaps that's the way they're showing the characters age now?



It has its faults, too. There have been a couple weak endings due to “cartoon logic” as previously mentioned. However, the writers have demonstrated that they CAN acknowledge and fix their mistakes, and the mistakes of season 7 in my opinion have been minor. 

So in conclusion, no, Futurama is still a great show. It has problems, but they can be fixed. Plus, we still have a huge chunk of season 7 left, and some of the upcoming episodes sound brilliant. 



Ask me again when season 7 takes its bows, though.

[Reply #5 on:]

I think it's unfair to compare this season to the original run, Futurama is not unchanging like The Simpsons, there's progression and building relationships. I could say I like the newer stuff better cause there's more Fry/Leela, but in terms of their relatioship they wouldn't be where they're at if not for stuff that happened over the course of the entire show. I enjoy watching every episode and I've only become more critical thanks to this forum -__- damn you all!

[Reply #6 on:]

I agree that it's silly to compare futurama these days to the original run. There's been somewhat of a story arc throughout the entire series, unlike the Simpsons (Simpsons Roasting on an Open Fire could pretty much be plopped anywhere), so it'd be impossible for the series to go back entirely to how it was in its original run.

But, is it in decline? Tough question. Are the episodes these days as consistently good as they were in its peak? No. Am I enjoying them any less? Weirdly, no. And maybe I'm naive or too easy to please, but I don't think I'll ever find myself not being excited for a new episode.

even if that one song is incredibly annoying

I may as well Jump? I loved that song!

[Reply #7 on:]

My POV may be a little unusual--I watched some of the show during its original run--but only when I caught it. I liked it and was entertained, but part of the problem was that I didn't have a TV for a long while, plus FOX kept moving it around or other things would be shown in its time slot. So I was definitely not following it regularly or even thinking of it as I am now. Longwinded way of saying that I don't have the OR enshrined in my heart like Mao Zedong is preserved and encased in a glass casket (ew, bad metaphor--Futurama is not an evil mass murderer).

I don't think it's in decline but is instead changing. Aside from the stupid cartooniness (Simpsons jaundice? Eeyuk), dumb pop culture references, and crude, lowbrow jokes that have marred several episodes, I still find it clever, innovative, fresh, and most importantly, fun. It is definitely different than the first four seasons but again, change is not necessarily a bad thing.

Also, FWIW, this is the ONLY TV show I watch with regularity. I will watch some PBS cooking shows, but very sporadically. So as far as I am concerned, this show is the only thing worth watching.

[Reply #8 on:]

I voted for "The original run was a little better". I'm happy with how the series is at the moment, but I would like a little less craziness.

CGEF ratings-wise, season seven is so far much better than six was at this point.

There's a few things that have dragged certain episodes down in the new run:

-Rushed and/or nonsensical endings (Proposition Infinity, Ghost in the Machines, Neutopia, All the Presidents' Heads).

-Out-of-character-ness (Neutopia, In-A-Gadda-Da-Leela).

-Blatant pop culture references (Attack of the Killer App, Yo Leela Leela).

-Stupid plot (That Darn Katz!, The Butterjunk Effect, The Holiday Spectacular, Yo Leela Leela).

-Overly cartoony (The Tip of the Zoidberg, A Farewell to Arms, and possibly Rebirth).

-Tacked on B-plots that serve only as filler (Overclockwise, The Bots and the Bees).

I think these are the biggest issues with the new episodes. So far season 7 has (generally) been pretty clear of these problems, so it does appear that they're slowly getting back to the quality of the original run.

As long as there's a t least a couple of good episodes per season, I'll still be a fan of the show. They wouldn't even need to be on the level of TLPJF either; they could be about as good as "Mobius Dick" and "Law and Oracle" and I'd be pleased.

Anyway, the rest of 7A sounds strong (Other than perhaps Naturama, which could either be the next Reincarnation or the next FHS).

[Reply #9 on:]

Right in act one of Bend-Her, there's an extremely dated and lame reference to The Osbournes...

My general feeling is that seasons 3 and 4 were stronger than today's seasons, but that I think the "average" episodes are really pretty similar in quality; it's just that there's a lot more "average" now than there was then. The writers don't seem to hit it out of the park with truly amazing episodes quite as often. But honestly, I can live with that, and I truly think that stylistically the show is virtually the same. It has evolved and changed a little bit in the way that most shows do, but considering it was actually revived from the dead, the change has been pretty minimal. Most long-running shows I watch have changed more significantly, even without getting cancelled and brought back in the process.

And for whatever it's worth, I'd take season 6 over seasons 1 and 2. And I love those seasons, too.

[Reply #10 on:]

Yeah, I agree. Season 1 is arguably the most consistent, but it lacks a truly spectacular episode that all the others have. Season 2 is the same, but with more average ones thrown in. I'd say that 4>3>1>7>6=2>5 would be my rankings.

[Reply #11 on:]

None of the options in the poll accurately reflect my views.

I love the original run.

I love seasons 5 and 6 (although there was a slight dip in the consistency of quality).

Season 7 is a train-wreck by comparison (so far, although I feel like after 7 episodes, it'd take a miracle for the show to dig itself out of this).


I'd rank them like this: 3 > 4 > 6 > 2 > 1 > 5 >>> 7.

I prefer the spectacular highs of season 6 mixed with the spectacular lows rather than the pedestrian "good" quality of season 1, hence why it's ranked higher.

[Reply #12 on:]

About the crazyness aspect:

Futurama did not turn crazier...it's just that the former whackyness had more of a purpose, was a more determind "plot driver".
E.g. the Harlem Globetrotters turning out to be the greatest scientific minds of the universe is certainly something to make you wonder "WTF???". Yet, scientists were needed for that episode, it added another aspect to those recurring chars...to cut a long story short: It was necessary and made sense for the story.

While e.g. the murderlator in TTOTZ: Sure it was a fun ride, but why exactly was that rollercoaster needed? Any other killing device would have been as acceptable. Also, where did all the material come from, let alone the time and knowledge to build that thing? Compared to that, a basketball player announcing he also has another job as cientist and doing some calculations was pure realism in comparison.

Or PYHOMS: It was not "mutilation for mutilations sake", it just covered the old "breaking up with the ex, but being stuck with her" theme. The mutilation was a just a necessary, yet hilarious plot device.

To cut a long story short: The crazyness itself has imhO not changed, it is just no longer as firmly attached to the main plot as it used to be.

[Reply #13 on:]

Interesting that (based on the poll) the majority of people think that the show is just as good as it ever was.   I wouldn't have guessed that was what most people thought from the gloom and doom that I've been hearing on this board lately. 

I personally think that the original run was, on average, slightly better.  I also don't really care.  Okay, so we got a couple of really weak episodes like YLL and TFHS in season 6, but we also got TLPJF and TPoB.  If I have to sit through a weak episode every once in awhile in order to get a great one, then fine.  It's not like they're making terrible episodes because they're lazy.  They're making them to appeal to the widest audience they can, and in a world where Tosh.O isn't a crime against humanity, there are going to be audience members that want stupid things like singing butt boils. If we want Futurama to have any chance of surviving at all, we're going to have to accept that.

[Reply #14 on:]

I've always been a big fan of Futurama even before the movies were announced, but I can honestly say in my humble opinion that I've enjoyed the newer episodes on Comedy Central more than the originals that aired on Fox back in the day. Please keep in mind that in no way am I saying that the originals sucked, otherwise I wouldn't of been a fan for so long.

[Reply #15 on:]

The new run is just as good, I still can't understand why people are being negative about it

[Reply #16 on:]

My original remarks were rather vague and abstract. Let me be more concrete.  ("Show don't tell, you lazy slob!" my writing shoulder angel screeches.) The intelligence and originality behind lots of the new episodes are why I am still eagerly watching.

For example, I loved the 3D, Tron-like car chase scene in L&O; the dreamy quality of the white whale swimming gracefully through space, and the crazy fourth dimension that had the characters talking backwards in MD; the ethereal beauty of the flying machine through space in DuhVC; the pathos of LI and AFtA; and the fun creativity behind Reincarnation. Most of these are rather the middle-of-the-pack episodes, imho, but I guess that's my point; even in these average or above-average episodes, there are still a lot of wonderful moments and scenes. Reviewing the episodes list by season, we don't yet have that jaw-dropping, knock-your-socks off episode yet for this season, á la TLPJF--but I guess I am satisfied because I loved the season premiere, AFtA, ZD, and then the latest one. With the exception of Baghead, I wasn't apathetic to any of the others, either, but quite entertained.

I think what I'm trying to say is, Futurama still makes me feel like I am tripping on mushrooms while I am watching it, and all mind-altering-substance-free. I appreciate that, because I have very adverse reactions to such things. O'Doulls is the most I can handle.

[Reply #17 on:]

Who are these complete and utter idiots voting The new run is just as good as the original? These are clearly just kids who have never even watched the original episodes.

[Reply #18 on:]

Who are these complete and utter idiots voting The new run is just as good as the original? These are clearly just kids who have never even watched the original episodes.

Why on earth would you jump to that conclusion? I'd be absolutely amazed if anybody posting on a Futurama forum hadn't seen at least half of the original run.

[Reply #19 on:]

Most of the people I know who loved the original run of the show love the new ones, and I only rarely hear complaints about any sort of decline. A few people here and there, but by and large this seems to be an internet phenomenon.

[Reply #20 on:]

Who are these complete and utter idiots voting The new run is just as good as the original? These are clearly just kids who have never even watched the original episodes.

Why thank you! I am a very youthful-looking 38-year old after all.

[Reply #21 on:]

Sparky Barky is winning threads right now.

Yeah I don't get that sort of insult at all. Just seems like a reductive, easy criticism of people who enjoy something you don't. I've seen it with tons of other stuff and it's never true at all.

I don't know anyone who watches and enjoys Futurama in general who hasn't seen tons of the older ones. Honestly, is there really anyone out there who had never seen it before watching "Rebirth" and ONLY watches the new ones? The reruns are so easy to access.

[Reply #22 on:]

Who are these complete and utter idiots voting The new run is just as good as the original? These are clearly just kids who have never even watched the original episodes.

Actually I have seen the original run at least 5 times over and I chose that option.

The new run is just as good, I still can't understand why people are being negative about it

Give this man/woman a medal.

[Reply #23 on:]

Who are these complete and utter idiots voting The new run is just as good as the original? These are clearly just kids who have never even watched the original episodes.

Why on earth would you jump to that conclusion? I'd be absolutely amazed if anybody posting on a Futurama forum hadn't seen at least half of the original run.

Now now, everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how idiotic and stupid it is.  

[Reply #24 on:]

I feel that the show's real "sweet spot" was seasons 2, 3, and 4. It's always been one of my favorite shows (and still is), but those are my favorites overall.

For the purposes of this post "Old Futurama" is seasons 1-4. "New Futurama" is the movies onward.

New Futurama is different from old Futurama.

Example: We've had mind control before. The Hypnotoad and the Brain Slugs are hilarious and beloved examples from the first run. The cats in That Darn Katz are new Futurama's mind control, except that they're not sci-fi enough. They control minds by... being cute. And it comes across as jarringly obnoxious and completely nonsensical.

Example: old Futurama has callbacks to pop culture, like the Big Butts song getting called classical music, or the Globetrotters, or the entire episode of Where No Fan Has Gone Before. People love that stuff, and it's generally got a reason for  being in the episode. Now we get Susan Boil and lazy jokes directly referencing stupid celebrities by name and amounting to no more than "Kanye has a big ego!!!" or "Lady Gaga is annoying!!!"

Example: old Futurama had mutilations but they always made some kind of sense. Fry's head grafted onto Amy's shoulder made for a hilarious episode and made some kind of sense, as there was build-up to a horrible accident that necessitated it. Fry's hands get eaten by a T-rex and it's funny because he said it "tickled" and it set him up for the "breaking these in" joke. Zoidberg snips fry's arm off, and it makes sense, while setting up hilarity with the arm used as a weapon and later a naughty joke. Now we have things like Fry and Leela's arms tearing off as though the characters were made of wet toilet paper, for no reason.

Example: Things that don't make sense or are outright impossible... old Futurama has a lot of those. We just give them a hand-wave because it's sci-fi. Why is the hypnotoad hypnotic? Because it's sci-fi. How does the PE ship move so fast? It's scifi. How do these wacky aliens exist? It's sci-fi. How does Bender reattach his arms in the very first episode? They outright point out that it doesn't seem possible, but we excuse it because it's clever and just a silly joke that doesn't mean anything. New Futurama delivers nonsensical things that are major plot points and aren't even sci-fi, like spicy food causing a metal robot to melt. It's funny when spicy food melts through an apartment building, but not when it's used as a lazy way to resolve a major problem.

Example: Political/social agendas. Old Futurama had a couple episodes where the plots touched upon issues. Nonstandard relationships in I Dated a Robot, and censorship in Bender Should Not Be allowed On TV. These were related to issues of the day, but seemed relatively good-natured. New Futurama has episodes with more overt political/social agendas, which makes it feel less like its own world to me. I'm not watching a scifi cartoon for social/political issues. I'm watching it for the fantastic and futuristic stories. I don't care about an obvious Obama analogue being presented as the best choice for President of Earth while all who oppose him are morons. I don't want to see commentary on Proposition 8 discussing the legality and morality of robosexual relationships paralleling a current day divisive issue (and clearly supporting one side while again, putting down the other). There are other shows that do this - they're not scifi set a thousand years in the future though.

Example: stupid naughty language. New Futurama is plucking some low-hanging fruit with things like "a solemn testicle" and "V-Giny". They're not funny. What's funny is when they used to sneak things past the censors, or make clever jokes out of these things rather than just expecting us to laugh because they said a word. What's funny is how you use the word, not the mere fact that you use it. The Kegelcizer was hilarious and subtle. Old Futurama used a lame joke about smelling Uranus as a setup for the hilarious joke about it having been renamed to Urectum to stop those stupid jokes. I feel like new Futurama would just use the Uranus joke and that'd be it.

This is still a great show and I enjoy watching it, and I make a point of catching the new episodes every Wednesday. But it's changed and I'm not a fan of all of the changes.

[Reply #25 on:]

BUT THEY'RE CATS FROM ANOTHER PLANET, COME ON, WHAT DO YOU WANT
I love That Darn Katz..  >:(
Agree that they would probably just go with sniffing Uranus now
What bothers me more than even just the current references as such are the absolute nonsense and jarring and grating and annoying things - the boil, the unnecessary puking goat, the arms falling off, the cat can-can (worst part of that episode), the "sex with Zapp" repeated 27 times, etc. - the absurdity-for-absurdity's-sake, the rushedness of some (not all, but many) of the eps...  That and cramming the whole crew into too many scenes and situations, as has been mentioned before.
But I think the main thing for me is, most of the new episodes just don't feel like Futurama anymore..  They just don't have that same old feeling somehow that they used to.  That quality vibe, which to me infused and informed the originals.  The writing and the style overall are just off and differenty now though some of them still capture that elusiveness.  That is a very intangible thing I suppose, but it is something I constantly intuitively grasp.

When some of them still do however, I still enjoy them.
(and in actual fact since I long ago dropped all expectations and do just take each episode as it comes now and just sit there and watch them, generally non-judgmentally, I can reiterate as I've noted before that I have actually enjoyed 'most' of them; since the travesties that were the movies; to varying degrees and in fluctuating doses).
putting it succinctly.

[Reply #26 on:]

I like the original run of Futurama alot. But when it came back, I did see a little change in writing and the kind of stuff that happened/characters way of speech. But I think the newer stuff is just as good. I mean, it's obvious there's a difference in quality. But I still love the show just as much, or maybe even better now. These new episodes have been love it/hate it, which is usually what we should all see on TV. Season 6B was just....... GREAT!! So far Season 7A has been meehh, some love it and some hate it eps. Buut I have a good feeling for future episodes, and the future of the series. Still a great show, and always will be the best one!

[Reply #27 on:]

Buut I have a good feeling for future episodes, and the future of the series. Still a great show, and always will be the best one!

Well...with "Fun on a Bun" airing today, being the most anticipated and -at least according to the writers- this season's best episode, we'll soon learn more

[Reply #28 on:]

Buut I have a good feeling for future episodes, and the future of the series. Still a great show, and always will be the best one!

Well...with "Fun on a Bun" airing today, being the most anticipated and -at least according to the writers- this season's best episode, we'll soon learn more

Not too excited about this one. I saw the preview of it, where Fry was killed in a blending-kind of machine, shaped like a sausage, and had his head bitten of by Leela. I didn't really like that, but hopefully they at least give a good logic on bringing him back. Maybe the Rebirth machine will have a reappearance. But we'll see tonight!  

[Reply #29 on:]

Ooookay...that does really not sound to promising....erm....
And I am pretty sure the anti-mutilation fraction here on Peel -that might have grown quite numerous by now- won't be too excited about that, either.

[Reply #30 on:]

Really, I feel like complaining about mutilation in Futurama is like complaining about chocolate milk tasting like chocolate.

If it has a purpose, then it's fine.

[Reply #31 on:]

I do hate it when chocolate milk tastes like chocolate for no purpose.

[Reply #32 on:]

Mutilation is funny when it's not happening to you.  I point and laugh all the time.

[Reply #33 on:]

Who are these complete and utter idiots voting The new run is just as good as the original? These are clearly just kids who have never even watched the original episodes.

I'm sorry, but that is seriously incorrect!

[Reply #34 on:]

Who are these complete and utter idiots voting The new run is just as good as the original? These are clearly just kids who have never even watched the original episodes.

Actually I have seen the original run at least 5 times over and I chose that option.

The new run is just as good, I still can't understand why people are being negative about it

Give this man/woman a medal.

I'm a man. And thanks I personally love the new run. Yeah it is a bit wacky at times, and some of the endings have been rushed and whatnot.... but I can honestly say I have enjoyed it immensely overall. The Late Philip J Fry and The Prisoner Of Benda are some of the finest episodes the show has ever had.

The holiday spectacular is an exception, and truly is the worst thing to ever grace futurama.... but as I said, that's just an exception.

[Reply #35 on:]

Really, I feel like complaining about mutilation in Futurama is like complaining about chocolate milk tasting like chocolate.

If it has a purpose, then it's fine.

Now we have things like Fry and Leela's arms tearing off as though the characters were made of wet toilet paper, for no reason.

It's more like complaining that your chocolate milk tastes of grape, in the case of certain episodes.

[Reply #36 on:]

Really, I feel like complaining about mutilation in Futurama is like complaining about chocolate milk tasting like chocolate.

If it has a purpose, then it's fine.

Now we have things like Fry and Leela's arms tearing off as though the characters were made of wet toilet paper, for no reason.

It's more like complaining that your chocolate milk tastes of grape, in the case of certain episodes.

Like I said: If it has a purpose then I'm fine with it. The mutilation in TSMDM was justified. In AFTA however, it was not.

[Reply #37 on:]

To be clear, I wasn't trying to say that EVERY mutilation or crude joke or episode or pop culture reference is bad. Just that stuff makes it into the finished product that I consider unworthy of the original run.

[Reply #38 on:]

I like the mutilation... For some reason.

My problem with it is there is not enough blood. Blood would be spraying out EVERYWHERE in A Farewell to Arms.

[Reply #39 on:]

Looks like Farnsworth had a good mutilation today, eh? 

Show spoiler

Almost zapped to death by Bender!