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Author Topic: Thoughts on 7ACV03 - Decision 3012 - SPOILERS!  (Read 10435 times)
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PEE Poll: Rating
1/10   -3 (4%)
2/10   -0 (0%)
3/10   -1 (1.3%)
4/10   -1 (1.3%)
5/10   -1 (1.3%)
6/10   -2 (2.7%)
7/10   -20 (26.7%)
8/10   -25 (33.3%)
9/10   -17 (22.7%)
10/10   -5 (6.7%)
Total Voters: 75

DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #80 on: 06-29-2012 18:49 »
« Last Edit on: 06-29-2012 18:53 »

Another theory, I think this is the correct one:

Travers stopped the robot uprising, therefore never need to travel back in time, therefore he never used the time code, therefore he can't get killed by the paradox-erasing thingy 'cause he never even used it!

*edit*

Ah, seems you share the same theory, tnuk. Makes sense to me.
MuchAdo

Professor
*
« Reply #81 on: 06-29-2012 19:00 »
« Last Edit on: 06-29-2012 20:56 »

Who ever voted 1/10 and 3/10 on this episode... they are the trolls.

I can't believe seeing how many old characters make cameos in the background of this one episode.

It's really packed if you start looking for iconic sundry characters in the backgrounds.

Even Nixon's old campaign manager that he squished to death appears in the background as Travers is elected.

Even the purple skinned janitor makes an appearance.. what the hell's his name?
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #82 on: 06-29-2012 19:04 »

Even the purple skinned mentos janitor makes an appearance.. what the hell's his name?

The Hip Joint Janitor.

I assume you mean him.
MuchAdo

Professor
*
« Reply #83 on: 06-29-2012 20:55 »
« Last Edit on: 06-29-2012 20:56 »

Even the purple skinned mentos janitor makes an appearance.. what the hell's his name?

The Hip Joint Janitor.

I assume you mean him.

Yeah, thanks Danny.. it was bugging me and that's the last apperance of his I could think of... yet I could not think of his name.

Not only was Mars MIA but I even noticed the mutants in certain crowd shots.... you go Futurama!
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #84 on: 06-29-2012 23:44 »

Another theory, I think this is the correct one:

Travers stopped the robot uprising, therefore never need to travel back in time, therefore he never used the time code, therefore he can't get killed by the paradox-erasing thingy 'cause he never even used it!

*edit*

Ah, seems you share the same theory, tnuk. Makes sense to me.

That's not a theory - that's what happened in the episode. It's what they outright state happens in the episode. It's the most basic time-travel paradox possible.

And because of that, we have a problem because:
1. The time code is paradox-correcting and this sort of paradox is, therefore, a huge continuity error.
2. Paradoxes are paradoxes because they are infinite. It makes no sense that it would just undo itself once because if he never even used it, then you know? He'd use it, wouldn't he. As soon as the paradox causes things to be undone, then it reverts back to a position where things need to be done again. Get me?
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #85 on: 06-29-2012 23:54 »

But it doesn't? It created an alternate timeline where Nixon won but the robot shit will never happen, right? You know when there's that like blast thingy when Travers disappears. Therefore the code was never used.
futuRAmaMA

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #86 on: 06-30-2012 00:04 »

And because of that, we have a problem because:
1. The time code is paradox-correcting and this sort of paradox is, therefore, a huge continuity error.
2. Paradoxes are paradoxes because they are infinite. It makes no sense that it would just undo itself once because if he never even used it, then you know? He'd use it, wouldn't he. As soon as the paradox causes things to be undone, then it reverts back to a position where things need to be done again. Get me?

There are a whole slew of continuity and plot problems with this episode, the lack of paradox-correction being one that is most glaring.  But for some reason the one thing that bugged me most is that a photocopy of Fry's butt with the time code existed and had been preserved.

However, it is just a cartoon when you get down to it, and the writers are still trying to get back in the groove, so I'm not going to get too far off my rocker over the problems.  I'm looking forward to the rest of the season.  But oh, if only they ran two new eps every week.  (A man can dream ... A man can dream.)
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #87 on: 06-30-2012 00:08 »

I don't find it hard it to believe that Fry photocopied his butt at some point while the tattoo was on his ass.
TheAnvil

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #88 on: 06-30-2012 00:28 »

They did a lot with this episode considering the weak plot. It was funny and there were a lot of great gags. Not as good as the other two but a solid 7/10 episode.
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #89 on: 06-30-2012 00:34 »

Another thing I noticed: the time sphere makes a different noise when it disappears to what it does in BBS.
soylentOrange

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #90 on: 06-30-2012 01:12 »

There are a whole slew of continuity and plot problems with this episode, the lack of paradox-correction being one that is most glaring.

But the time code did correct the paradox, by getting rid of Senator Travers.  Presumably the time line has been altered now that Travers warned the PE crew about what Nixon would do in the future, but, even if it wasn't, then things will play out exactly like they did the time before, with Travers going back in time and then being edited out of existence.  There is no paradox.  We even saw something similar to this happen in BBS.  When Bender invited all of his past selves to "stick around rather than coming up when they were logically supposed to", they all get edited out of existence by blowing up.  That was the only other time that somebody went back in time and changed history in such a way as to prevent themselves from making the trip in the first place, and it had the same result.  The Benders blew up instead of fading out, but that could just be because they're robots and are full of all kinds of volatile fuels and such.
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #91 on: 06-30-2012 01:22 »

Plus there were a large amount of them, exploding may have been quicker than fading. There were enough to rip an anomaly in the universe too.
Ambitious misunderstood

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #92 on: 06-30-2012 01:40 »

By far the best episode of this season so far. For once a nice sci fi plot that's intelligent (as well as fitting well within the Futurama world) instead of simply outlandish. Many good laughs and barely any awkward jokes. No over-the-top romance, no superficial new characters that nobody needs. The only thing that bugged me was the obvious endorsement of Obama. This already bothered me in the last season with the gay marriage issue. I don't want Futurama to take a stand in current events. In 10 years, nobody will know or care about this birth certificate issue - probably people will also have forgotten what Kenia and Obama have got to do with each other.

Because of this, I'll have to drop the rating a point. But other than that, it's a good episode, slightly absurd but not laughingly implausible and all in all just a light-hearted episode that feels like it could be a Season 4 or 5 episode (which is meant as a compliment). 9/10
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
****
« Reply #93 on: 06-30-2012 04:43 »

I'm certain the whole Obama/Birth Certificate thing won't feel dated in a few years.  I had no idea about these apparently unsubtle references and it didn't effect my enjoyment at all. 
CookiesOnTheFloor
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #94 on: 06-30-2012 05:45 »

You know, I really really don't like it when this show indulges in political commentary. And I'm tired of Hollywood's worship of Obama. It's mawkish and it's gotten old. So yeah, didn't care for this ep.
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #95 on: 06-30-2012 05:45 »

I'm certain the whole Obama/Birth Certificate thing won't feel dated in a few years.

Agreed.  It doesn't seem so special because we are living through it, but these are remarkable times that will certainly find a a prominent place in the history books.  Obama's presidency will be analyzed for decades or even centuries to come.  He was the first black president who also presided over lengthy, controversial wars and the largest global financial breakdown in recent history.  He did all of this whilst in the middle of a political gridlock the likes of which have never been seen before, especially in the age of instantaneous information transfer.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #96 on: 06-30-2012 06:15 »
« Last Edit on: 06-30-2012 06:28 »

If someone were to say in, like, 2002 that a show doing references to 9/11 conspiracy theories would quickly become dated in a few years, they would be so totally wrong.

Some of these things just last. Even if these birthers finally go away (unlikely; those morons will be at it until the day he dies, and then some), it's a pretty huge thing that there was actually a significant movement, partially led by major media commentators and even some people in Congress and political power, to question the legitimacy of the president's birth in this country. It's not the very BIGGEST historical thing, but no doubt it will still be discussed and make some amount of sense as a reference decades from now.

Also, idealization of Obama isn't really the point, I don't think. I'm not particularly a fan (not for the same reasons as birthers and Tea Partiers; if anything, I sympathized with Bender's argument at the end of the episode. Obama has continued and solidified, and in some cases strengthened, most of Bush's major policies, and I despised Bush), but that isn't the issue with the birther junk. At a time of really serious issues that need to be dealt with, the entire political discussion was hijacked by the patently ridiculous idea that the president had somehow faked his eligibility. And this was a rumor initially started by the rival Hillary Clinton (now in his cabinet!) campaign, too, lest we forget. I see the episode as being more about that needless distraction, not just making Obama out to be this great guy.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #97 on: 06-30-2012 06:57 »

Some of these things just last. Even if these birthers finally go away (unlikely; those morons will be at it until the day he dies, and then some), it's a pretty huge thing that there was actually a significant movement, partially led by major media commentators and even some people in Congress and political power, to question the legitimacy of the president's birth in this country.

It was being questioned while Obama was still a candidate, which is when these sorts of things are supposed to be questioned. It only became a big issue because there was such ambiguity regarding his past, which served to make those mentioning the matter become more vocal. Once the election passed, it became fairly obvious that his campaign had purposely exploited the issue to make those bringing it up look stupid.

Which, as unfair as is, they did look. And still do.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #98 on: 06-30-2012 07:27 »
« Last Edit on: 06-30-2012 07:36 »

It was being discussed most prominently in the summer of 2009 and then into 2010...and then again when Donald Trump was running for president and decided to make it a major issue. Oddly enough, it really wasn't a major issue in the 2008 election itself, at least not as brought upon by Republicans (they were too busy talking about other ridiculous horseshit, like Jeremiah Wright). It was an issue for a short while during the primaries, when the Clinton campaign brought it up, but most of those same supporters got over it once Clinton threw her support behind him and he became "their guy" too. Which goes to show that people will gullibly believe idiotic things as long as those things otherwise support their own political persuasions, and completely forget about those things when they don't. A minor issue was actually made of McCain's eligibility, too, and the people who bought into that and genuinely cared about it were nearly as dumb as the current Obama birthers.

I don't think there's much ambiguity about his past. It's fairly well-documented; as much so as any other president, really. The dude even wrote two whole books on it. All presidents and major candidates tend to have really idiotic questions asked about their histories in attempts to discredit them, and these questions rarely if ever have anything to do with actual issues. It's true now with Romney, as well. People sincerely concerned about various aspects of his history with the Mormon faith should really be concerned with how he will handle the issues as president.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #99 on: 06-30-2012 07:43 »

My point was that it wasn't an idiotic concern when it first came up.

Did you know Obama mentions that his birth certificate is in his attic in one of his books?
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #100 on: 06-30-2012 09:00 »
« Last Edit on: 06-30-2012 09:02 »

No, it was definitely always dumb.

Obama could be blowing smoke out of his ass about it being in his attic for whatever reason. (Though, I haven't heard that; did you actually read the book, or is this hearsay from elsewhere?) Maybe he thought being a packrat would be endearing to voters, who knows. It was still a ridiculous notion. That anyone would think a non-U.S. citizen would even get as far as he did without someone, like, NOTICING and saying something is absurd. At some point someone would have come forward with actual proof. As it stood, it was just some people who were afraid of a black guy with a foreign-sounding name being pres.

Plus, Hawaii had it on file and his birth announcement was in the paper from the day of his birth (which was and is easy to check). Anyone who seriously wanted to know could have found out pretty quickly.

And all of this ignores the fact that it's really just an old formality in the Constitution that has no real bearing on current issues, anyway. If he was technically born somewhere else, I doubt I would care. It has no bearing on his job performance. (Which is still terrible, but still.)
Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #101 on: 06-30-2012 09:07 »

Well, if he was Asian, he might do a rather well job performance.  And who knows, eventually the Presidency will be so unattractive that Mexicans will have to do it.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #102 on: 06-30-2012 09:13 »

America should be looking to outsource the Presidency anyhow. If they give the job to some call centre somewhere in India, they will have somebody to do their Presidenting 24 hours a day, 7 days a week and they'll manage to undercut the prices of their largest competitor by 10%.
futurefreak

salutatory committee member
Moderator
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #103 on: 06-30-2012 09:28 »

I didn't really care enough for the episode, don't care enough to rate it. I was hesitant about another political episode because of the agenda that might be on the menu mad Interesting use of the timecode again, though.
BlueZoidberg1

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #104 on: 06-30-2012 12:12 »

A lot of people seem to think 7/10 or 8/10. I gave it 8/10.

Not the strongest story, but the gags were very good, and a loved the ending.
Binder

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #105 on: 06-30-2012 13:59 »

I loved this episode! Felt like an episode of the classic era, like one of those that didn't exactly stand out, but is a very fun and entertaining watch. Actually, thats what I'd class "A Head in the Polls" as being, so this was a great sequel to that episode.

I think the Fry/Leela/Bender focus really helped. Pushing the secondaries to the side was refreshing. I mean, I love them, but recent seasons have felt a bit cramped with all the secondaries vying for attention.

This was basically a Leela a-story, a Bender b-story that tied directly to the a-story and Fry went along for the ride. What I loved:

Bender being bad because he's Bender
The Beer intro tying in with the opening titles
Time travel
Evil ol' Nixon
Fry bringing up the fact that he is 1000+ years old

9/10

ps - I love Obama, so perhaps the "omfg i hate parodies of obama that put him in a positive light because i hate obama" didn't affect me like it did some
TheMadCapper

Fluffy
UberMod
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #106 on: 06-30-2012 14:13 »

Quote
ps - I love Obama, so perhaps the "omfg i hate parodies of obama that put him in a positive light because i hate obama" didn't affect me like it did some

There's "put him in a positive light" and then there's "Make him the only honest & well-meaning candidate, desperately attempting to rescue the world from the horrors of the Republican character winning".

I DID like the beerbeerbeerbeerbeer opening quite a bit, I must say.
Binder

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #107 on: 06-30-2012 15:36 »

Well, to be fair I do think that Mitt Romney is a piece of shit and do think that Obama is an honest and well meaning candidate desperately attempting to rescue the world from the horrors of the Republican character winning.

Of course, thats how ALL political episodes from Simpsons/Futurama play out due to the strong left leaning writers. So if you don't think what they think it hurts ones viewing of an episode.

Ideally, I'd stay away from politics if I was a writer for a Groening show.
polocatfan

Crustacean
*
« Reply #108 on: 06-30-2012 16:35 »

Maybe some time traveler should try assassinate Nixon? That would fix the future.
Why does it have to be a time traveller? Oh and 8/10 because I haven't seen a bad futurama yet. It would take serious conituity holes and be canon to be bad.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #109 on: 06-30-2012 17:49 »

That anyone would think a non-U.S. citizen would even get as far as he did without someone, like, NOTICING and saying something is absurd.

Why? I'm not saying it was likely, I'm saying it was possible. You're effectively saying that this was somebody else's problem to take care of, and that voters were fools for being concerned about it.

And that's terrible irresponsible.

And all of this ignores the fact that it's really just an old formality in the Constitution that has no real bearing on current issues, anyway.

The Constitution is just formalities. Fantastic. roll eyes
futuRAmaMA

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #110 on: 06-30-2012 19:22 »
« Last Edit on: 06-30-2012 19:23 »

and then there's "Make him the only honest & well-meaning candidate, desperately attempting to rescue the world from the horrors of the Republican character winning".

But there are some people, like myself, who do feel this way to some degree because in the grand scheme of things history will almost certainly see it largely that way within the context of our times.

I didn't want to make any comment about the political aspects of this episode for one reason: because the United States political process has moved into an unprecedented level of divisiveness combined with complete refusal to compromise.  There are very, very few who are even-handed and balanced, and most are unable to see the difference between principle and preference.  It has become a case of "I'm 100% right and they are 100% wrong" which leaves no room for discussion at all.  This is why conspiracy theories have become so popular - because there is no where else to go in the discussion.  

History will judge the birther issue as ridiculous, and analysts will link it to the divisive nature of our politics and lack of willingness to compromise or admit "I'm wrong".  But this doesn't mean the people espousing these outlandish ideas are insincere.  One can be completely wrong but still be sincere because they don't realize they are the victim of mis- (or even dis-) information.

I'm not a big fan of TV comedy shows touching on current events in such a glaring fashion as we see in this episode.  A subtle, casual or occasional poke is one thing, but to create an entire episode about it is a bit much.  Looking back, the only other Futurama episode I can remember that did was Attack of the Killer App.  Futurama needs to return to the sci-fi aspect of the series; the "Star Trek" type of stories.  Sure, this one had time travel, but it was incidental to the story as we didn't know anything about it until the very end.  We need more of the Melvars, and the God entity, and stories about strange alien worlds instead of Nixon being re-elected, or soda machines that have babies.  IMHO.
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #111 on: 06-30-2012 19:41 »

If I may digress from 'tedious debate' for a moment, one little detail that piqued my interest was Leela's reaction to Bender helping Nixon.  She throws him into the wall (again showing her immense mutant strength), but feels it necessary to grab his antenna with her hand in a full grip.  Given how much innuendo they have done in the past with his antenna, is this just coincidence?  Needless to say, I was aroused.
futuRAmaMA

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #112 on: 06-30-2012 19:45 »

She throws him into the wall (again showing her immense mutant strength), but feels it necessary to grab his antenna with her hand in a full grip.  Given how much innuendo they have done in the past with his antenna, is this just coincidence?

I noticed that too and felt the same way you did - except for the arousal part  laff

It's hard to know what the writers consider Bender's antenna to be.  Several episodes, going all the way back to I, Roomate have him referring to it as his "little Bender" so-to-speak.  But there have been other episodes where it had a more functional purpose, such as for dispensing butter on popcorn, or soda, etc...
Louiswuenator

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #113 on: 06-30-2012 19:49 »

I always assumed that was innuendo too.

I must have a dirtier mind than I thought...
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #114 on: 06-30-2012 22:11 »

The music was great in this episode, especially during the scene where the humans underground discover the Xeroxed time code and Travers travels back in time.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #115 on: 06-30-2012 23:54 »
« Last Edit on: 06-30-2012 23:59 »

That anyone would think a non-U.S. citizen would even get as far as he did without someone, like, NOTICING and saying something is absurd.

Why? I'm not saying it was likely, I'm saying it was possible. You're effectively saying that this was somebody else's problem to take care of, and that voters were fools for being concerned about it.


I'm not saying it was somebody else's responsibility, I'm saying that it is something that anyone could have figured out to be completely ridiculous just by thinking about it logically for more than ten seconds. Even without the birth certificate being readily available at first (though it was made available very quickly), Obama's history in the United States was already well-documented and easy to look up. His history in Hawaii was easily researched by anyone with a keyboard and web browser. It isn't the president's (or presidential candidate's) fault that people are stupid. It is their job to not be stupid.

I would apply the same thing to 9/11 conspiracy theories, moon landing conspiracy theories, and the like. Even if there are things that your average layman is not privy to or does not understand, they can still think about it rationally for more than a few seconds rather than instantly going into an idiotic fervor. Hillary Clinton supporters and, then, tea partiers decided to do the latter. Liberals would and have done the same about many other things, and they have with both Romney and McCain so far, so I'm not singling out President Obama's rivals in this. The entire U.S. political sphere is sorely lacking in common sense and basic logic.

Quote
The Constitution is just formalities. Fantastic. roll eyes

I'm not saying that I don't highly value the Constitution. However, it is a living document that can and occasionally has been changed when necessary or when it becomes clear that certain portions are dated. The "citizen by birth" clause for the President was written in more than 200 years ago for reasons that no longer apply today. There is no rational reason why a person who was not born here but was nonetheless raised as a U.S. citizen and spent most of their life here should not be able to be president. In an extreme example, someone who was born to U.S. Citizens but born on foreign soil only because their parents happened to be on vacation at the time would not be able to be president under current law. How much sense does that make? Of course, it is a non-issue here because Obama was clearly born in the country, as easily researchable facts and history attest. But personally, if he hadn't been, I would not view it as being very important to his duties on the job. It has no bearing on his ability to perform those duties, and there are plenty of other high political offices that do not require citizenship by birth, for good reason. If there was ever a serious movement to amend the Constitution to remove the citizen-by-birth clause to make it fairer for other citizens who wanted to serve their country, I would support that movement.

Besides, if the biggest Constitutional or legal wrong committed by a recent president was faking his natural-born citizenship, I would say that we were in very good shape. Obama himself has done far worse, many many times already. Passing the NDAA, the continued operation of the Guantanamo prison, the extension of the PATRIOT Act, the illegal "drone" program, legal defenses of DOMA, and the assassination of U.S. citizens without warrant or trial, among other things, should make any American's blood boil. Compared to any of those, I really could not give any less of a S#@! whether Obama was technically born here or in Kenya. It's peanuts in comparison. Regardless of whether there was ever any rational reason to believe that he hadn't been born here anyway, which there never was.

Quote from: futuRAmaMA link=topic=23128.msg1323799#msg1323799

I'm not a big fan of TV comedy shows touching on current events in such a glaring fashion as we see in this episode.  A subtle, casual or occasional poke is one thing, but to create an entire episode about it is a bit much.  Looking back, the only other Futurama episode I can remember that did was Attack of the Killer App.  

The "Kid Napster" episode? A Taste of Freedom? I would say those were just as overt. It is a little bit easy to forget now, but A Taste of Freedom is practically a time capsule of the immediate, post-9/11 political climate. I agree with a lot of your post, though.
futuRAmaMA

Delivery Boy
**
« Reply #116 on: 07-01-2012 00:04 »

The "Kid Napster" episode? A Taste of Freedom? I would say those were just as overt. It is a little bit easy to forget now, but A Taste of Freedom is practically a time capsule of the immediate, post-9/11 political climate. I agree with a lot of your post, though.

Well not the same way as this episode.  Lucy Liu being replicated as a robot was the basis of the story, and they merely used "kidnapster" at the end because Napster was popular at the time.  But it wasn't integrated into the entire episode.  As for Freedom Day, it was nowhere near as blatant as one of the Simpsons episodes that aired around that time where Lisa points out the fanatical pro-Americanism getting out of hand.  A poke, a reference, a joke or two is one thing, but to frame an entire episode around a current event is not a good idea because it dates it.  Futurama is supposed to be a sci-fi comedy cartoon, not All in the Family.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #117 on: 07-01-2012 00:24 »

The episode was pretty much all a commentary on file-sharing and Napster, though. It is framed through the sci-fi story, but the current issue of the day is what serves as the basis and reason for that story's existence. The same is true of the Freedom Day episode (although yeah, it does handle it a hell of a lot better than that Simpsons episode). But basically, both episodes are indeed framed around a current issue. 300 Big Boys (sort of) was too. Some other notable episodes like War is the H Word also go heavy on the political and social commentary, though some of those were more generalized.

I wasn't a huge fan of the commentary in this episode, though. I didn't even mind them framing it around a current event necessarily, but I'd agree that it needed a stronger sci-fi or futuristic element. That stuff was mainly relegated to the last act, which was not just incidentally easily the best portion of the episode. I guess I don't really mind the show sometimes dating itself because I find that sort of time-capsuley stuff interesting, and I think it's sort of pointless to try to make a show "timeless" anyway, because no show ever truly is or will be. I kind of enjoy watching old TV shows (including old Futurama episodes) and thinking about the time they were made and what informed their writing and production, even as I enjoy them for other reasons as well.

I actually like Attack of the Killer App a lot (it is flawed, but my issues with it don't have to do with datedness) and think it will age a bit better than the Kid-Napster episode for instance. Twitter and smartphones are lasting phenomenons, and the increased "connectedness" within western societies isn't going away any time soon, even if Twitter and iPhone themselves eventually disappear. The commentary in this week's episode was more of a misfire, though.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #118 on: 07-01-2012 00:43 »

Obama's history in the United States was already well-documented and easy to look up.

I don't disagree with this, although I will comment that at least I've seen Senator Travers' Harvard transcript. wink

Quote
If there was ever a serious movement to amend the Constitution to remove the citizen-by-birth clause to make it fairer for other citizens who wanted to serve their country, I would support that movement.

So long as it's done lawfully, I wouldn't mind -- I might even support it too. But I would mind if any particular president (or presidential candidate) willfully ignored the Constitution in such blatant manner, even if it is irrelevant in the larger scheme of things.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #119 on: 07-01-2012 01:57 »
« Last Edit on: 07-01-2012 02:02 »


I don't disagree with this, although I will comment that at least I've seen Senator Travers' Harvard transcript. wink

This leads to the point that much more has been asked of this guy as far as presenting private documents to the public than any other candidate. I don't recall many past presidents being asked to show things like their college transcripts in the first place, because it just wasn't that important. What exactly do people want to know? Whether the man exists? Will he need to show his grades from Kindergarten next?

A lot of it isn't just about him. I, frankly, think that there is more than a little tinge of racism and xenophobia that goes into this in Obama's particular case (even without him actually being foreign, he has a foreign-sounding name, a foreign father he barely knew, and, for racial reasons, "feels" foreign to many racists). But, the media machine has also played into it a lot. In the age of cable news, we're allowed to know a lot more about the private lives and histories of our politicians than we were ever privy to before, or would ever even really need to know to make informed voting decisions. And the worst part is, we possibly know even less than we used to about actual issues, voting records, etc, because the media glosses over this in favor of personal scandal. The president can break virtually every campaign promise he ever made, but apparently the real scandal to the media is that he did drugs in college and once dated someone other than his wife before he met her (shocking!). Modern U.S. politics are beyond stupid.

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But I would mind if any particular president (or presidential candidate) willfully ignored the Constitution in such blatant manner, even if it is irrelevant in the larger scheme of things.

He has. Many have. The last 30+ years' worth of presidents all have. And they've sold the country down the river in the process.

But none of them have ignored the natural-born-citizen part. How nice of them!
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