Thoughts on 6ACV24 - Cold Warriors - SPOILERS!

[Reply #200 on:]

Any trusted websites where I can see this episode? My DVR is a piece of crap, and won't record a damn episode of any show without stopping in the middle of the episode for me to record again! By trusted, that means a site that won't attempt to attack my computer for the second time.

[Reply #201 on:]

Any trusted websites where I can see this episode? My DVR is a piece of crap, and won't record a damn episode of any show without stopping in the middle of the episode for me to record again! By trusted, that means a site that won't attempt to attack my computer for the second time.

I think you can buy the episodes on iTunes and stuff like that, if I recall correctly they release the episodes almost right after the TV airing. If you're talking about illegal download, it's not a permitted subject on PEEL.

[Reply #202 on:]

Yup, if you're in the U.S, iTunes is your best bet. Two bucks for an episode isn't such a big deal, I don't think. At the very least, it'll protect your computer from a bunch of nasty viruses.

What about just networking?...

But that makes her sound like a business woman or something. The gag was that Leela was doing something frivolous like checking her Facebook account while 1.) piloting the ship and 2.) the fate of New New York was at stake. A more generic phrasing, in that case, would have lessened the joke's impact. Specificity can be funny, damn it!

[Reply #203 on:]

But after she says networking we could get a quick panned around shot showing that's she's actually playing pong. The joke is saved and the point of it is retained!...

[Reply #204 on:]

Yes, she could have been playing Tetris instead.  That would actually have been more amusing.

[Reply #205 on:]

Hmmm...that might have worked, Otis. But then Leela's reading of "networking" would have been different (perhaps more officious), and part of what makes the Facebook joke so funny to me is the nonchalance in Leela's voice. Honestly, I thought it was a perfectly acceptable pop culture reference--though I agree that eventually it will become dated.

But the same could be said for the references I mentioned before, from "The Why of Fry" and "The Luck of the Fryrish." It's unrealistic to expect the show to never reference pop culture--and, though I do think that some references are better than others, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree when it comes to the validity of the Facebook reference.

[Reply #206 on:]

Aki, I'm not some jackoff who sits in his computer all day long, searching for a new way to get arrested because he's got virtually no life. I assure you this is not who I am. In conclusion, I'm totally not thinking about illegally downloading Futurama episodes from iTunes.

[Reply #207 on:]

Hey, that's what we are, thank you very much.

[Reply #208 on:]

Whatever. You've seen my point.

[Reply #209 on:]

Aki, I'm not some jackoff who sits in his computer all day long, searching for a new way to get arrested because he's got virtually no life. I assure you this is not who I am.

I don't think he was accusing you of being such a person, just telling you that illegally downloading episodes--though it obviously goes on--isn't something our benevolent overlord [-mArc-] allows us to discuss on PEEL. I think it's a fair rule, and unless you want to get banned, you should probably follow it.

[Reply #210 on:]

First off, I'm fully aware of what [-mArc-] does, and secondly, as I just implyed, I assure you that illegaly downloading shit is not what I intend of like to do!

[Reply #211 on:]

I certainly didn't mean to accuse you of anything. Whether it is lousy or corrupt or whatever to download illegally is a completely different discussion that is not meant for PEEL. I just made the rules clear for a new user who I wasn't sure was aware of them.

[Reply #212 on:]

Whatever. You've seen my point.

Not unless your point is that one moment you're seeking assistance from us, the next you're mocking what you perceive PEEL to be. Lrn2PEEL or GTFO, troll.

First off, I'm fully aware of what [-mArc-] does

Either you're a stalker or that's not what you meant to say.

and secondly, as I just implyed, I assure you that illegaly downloading shit is not what I intend of like to do!

First off, your spelling needs work. As does your understanding of the verb "imply". Secondly, "not what I intend of like to do" makes approximately zero sense.

The point is that [-marc-] and PEEL have this policy whereby talking about downloading or streaming copyrighted content (eg: Futurama) without paying a fee to the copyright holders is prohibited, and this prohibition is enforced by banning. People were trying to help you and you're throwing it back in their faces by acting like a completely ungrateful, ignorant cunt. Quit it, or I'll do what I can to make the staff here aware of your violations of PEEL's terms of service (which you agreed to when you registered).

[Reply #213 on:]

First off, I'm fully aware of what [-mArc-] does, and secondly, as I just implyed, I assure you that illegaly downloading shit is not what I intend of like to do!

Fair enough, dude. It renders your initial question about websites where one can view the episode a bit confusing to me, though. There are no free, legal places to view them (like Comedy Central's website, or Hulu), so paying a buck or two on iTunes or Amazon are your only other options. Or you can develop a photographic memory really quickly, sit down and watch the episode next time it's rerun, and store it all up there in that pretty little head of yours.

My tongue, it's in my cheek pretty hard. Please don't take this advice in anything other than the lighthearted, goofy spirit in which it is intended.

[Reply #214 on:]

I laughed at the part when Fry and Yancy were fighting and Fry was like, "Ow! My under bite!"

[Reply #215 on:]

Alright, Gorky.

[Reply #216 on:]

totalnerduk, I assure you that I won't play any tricks as if I'm a misrable little child and I'm not a "troll". So far, I haven't been acting like one, so how in the hell can you call me that? Anything else you want to say to me or are you going to be silent?

[Reply #217 on:]

My one big annoyance with the episode was Fry's clover thingie. It really felt overdone, why couldn't they just have it appear somewhere in the background? Why the big fight? It felt like a way too obvious callback.

I cringed a bit when the Facebook line was delivered, but I still found it hilarious, and I give it a pass for the rule of funny.

Alright, Gorky.

Huh?

totalnerduk, I assure you that I won't play any tricks as if I'm a misrable little child and I'm not a "troll". So far, I haven't been acting like one, so how in the hell can you call me that? Anything else you want to say to me or are you going to be silent?

1. Don't doublepost.
2. If you have any disputes with tnuk, send him a message. Don't discuss such off topic stuff here.
3. You have already been linked the FAQ, so I won't link it. But please, get the drift.

[Reply #218 on:]

My one big annoyance with the episode was Fry's clover thingie.

I quite enjoyed seeing Yancy Jr.'s insane jealousy again, as well as Fry fighting to protect it from his brother but being unconcerned when his pet started to nibble the shrink-wrap.

Alright, Gorky.

totalnerduk, I assure you that I won't play any tricks as if I'm a misrable little child and I'm not a "troll". So far, I haven't been acting like one, so how in the hell can you call me that? Anything else you want to say to me or are you going to be silent?

I could quote your recent post history back at you, but that would be mroe effort than you're worth. So far you've been posting a ton of one-line responses, you've flamed Ralph Snart for a post clearly not directed at you, you've violated one of PEEL's major rules in this thread, and you just double-posted.

Based on the above, you qualify as a troll, a spammer, and the bad kind of n00b. Read this before you make another post. Read it carefully. If you've already read it, you clearly haven't taken on board a single word, so read it again. I'd suggest reading it all the way through very carefully and making detailed personal notes before you post anything else on PEEL, and doing the same thing before each of your next seventy-five posts (assuming you're not IP-banned before then).

Please don't respond to this in this thread. Use PEEL's PM feature to send me a private message if you wish to continue this discussion further, as this is not the place for it.

[Reply #219 on:]

Stop talking to me! I already have an intense hatred for you being a dick towards me. You're clearly trying to get me outta here. Stop acting like a child. Now, as I've stated a third time now, I've grasped the right way to use PEEL. I won't double or triple post anymore. It has come clear to me. Okay? I get the rules fully, now. I'm not a troll. A troll spams and says incoherant things. That's what a troll is! For example: teh books are teh wurst. See? That's a troll, you guys! A troll is not someone who double or triple posts by accident, which you guys have not realized. I did that twice by accident. I won't do it again. Alright? Am I in the ballpark, now?

[Reply #220 on:]

How about you just follow the simple rules and stop complaining all the time.

[Reply #221 on:]

He is not a troll, but he doesn't understand what a troll is.  A troll is someone who tries to provoke an emotional response by making emotionally loaded comments (usually colliding with the general opinion of the community he is participating in, although, a good troll can make him seem less obvious).  That's why they say 'trolling is a art' (get it?).

[Reply #222 on:]

So, anyway, was anybody else wondering how the hell Fry actually managed to be responsible enough to care for a Guinea Pig?

[Reply #223 on:]

He managed to care for Seymour enough for it to survive till he got frozen.  He found Seymour in 1997, right?

[Reply #224 on:]

Yeah, I don't see how a younger fry wouldn't be able to look after a pet. You don't have to be the smartest person to be able to do that.

[Reply #225 on:]

Ugh, Fry's good heart and not so good at brains.

[Reply #226 on:]

Fry can be responsible for short amounts of time if he really wants to. I mean, he actually tried for the Nerd Search, and even though he failed it was a nice try. Same goes with caring for the guinea pig, with spelling out Leela's name in the stars and with killing Leonardo da Vinci.

[Reply #227 on:]

Re: the pop culture references

Some of them don't bother me, like I thought the whole iPhone mock in AOTKA was done brilliantly - but the facebook thing bugs me. I think because 1. Every show now is making facebook references, and it's becoming overplayed and I'm getting sick of it, and 2. I dunno, it just seems odd they'd have that in the future, unless it was done in a futuristic way like the eyePhone was.

Many of the pop culture references in the original run were from Fry's time and his referential POV which is why I don't think they bothered me as much. They also weren't in almost EVERY DAMN EPISODE to be used as filler for a cheap laugh - that is what's bugging me. Like in A Big Piece of Garbage when they reference Beanie Babies, a Mr. Spock Collector plate, and a Bart Simpsons doll - that was funny, because 1. It was relevant to the plot and 2. It was relevant to Fry's time. Not that this bit in the episode even involved Fry, but they didn't have Facebook when he was frozen. It wasn't relevant to the plot and taking the joke out of the episode wouldn't have made a difference to the plot...so I just see it as useless filler.

[Reply #228 on:]

I totally agree with that, Randi. The pop culture references which were from Fry's time and his POV made perfect sense and were often quite funny. Unfortunately many years have passed between the original run and the new run, and therefore many new pop culture phenomenon's have happened, only these are now since Fry got frozen so they would no longer work from his POV. This is the problem now, with their insistence of continuing to shoehorn them in when they're less credible/believable...

[Reply #229 on:]

I liked it but I felt a bit underwhelmed by it. The whole thing just felt somewhat flat to me and it really irked me that Kif showed no signs of worry regarding Amy at all.

The final scene was nice, but it was sub-Lethal Inspection for me, which in turn was sub-The Luck of the Fryrish/Jurassic Bark. Still, it had some nice jokes and was well plotted for the most part. I'm sure it'll do well on repeat viewings too. But yeah... maybe I'm just not in the right mood for it right now? Hmmm.

It's certainly not my favourite of 6B.

[Reply #230 on:]

Okay, I just watched it a 2nd time and it worked a lot more for me, but I also realised one of the key things that really bothered me:

It's never established how much of a threat the common cold is to society. It appears to behave just as it does nowadays, but the characters behave as if it's far more deadly than that.

[Reply #231 on:]

But did she have to say Facebooking? Could she not have just said social networking?...

I thought the same thing, the line could have been "I'm updating my status right now" or something more generic.

it really irked me that Kif showed no signs of worry regarding Amy at all.

I can't understand why everyone's complaining about Kif not having a BORING whinge about Amy. Kif was at his absolute best in this episode, going back to his classic ways of thinking everything Zapp does and says is stupid. And Zapp jamming his face into the fire button is absolutely brilliant. This is the best Kif scene since his relationship with Amy. I mean seriously, are we talking about Days of Our Lives here? or Futurama?

This episode is great sci-fi (with the ancient outbreak), great insight into what Fry's life was like as a kid and absolutely hilarious!!

Leela: How deadly is it?
Professor: It could kill millions, or nobody. I suppose it might even bring a few people back to life! Anything is possible in science!

This is one of the funniest quotes ever in Futurama. Perhaps a bit of truth in what he's saying on the topic of virus outbreaks. With the exception of 'bringing people back to life' I could swear I've heard the same claims made about Bird Flu etc.

[Reply #232 on:]

Haha, I wonder if Leela has Zapp on her facebook.

If the show is gonna dumb itself down to make a generic "facebook" reference I think they should have done something unique, along the lines of the eyePhone...



I think I would have been less squirmy with the "updating my status" line suggestion.

[Reply #233 on:]

Okay, I just watched it a 2nd time and it worked a lot more for me, but I also realised one of the key things that really bothered me:

It's never established how much of a threat the common cold is to society. It appears to behave just as it does nowadays, but the characters behave as if it's far more deadly than that.

Ever hear of the 1918 flu?

[Reply #234 on:]

Generally speaking, though, isn't a flu more likely to kill an otherwise healthy adult than a cold? There was no Common Cold Epidemic of 1918, after all.

But yeah, I think part of the gag is that everyone is overreacting to the severity of the cold--though Farnsworth does say that he and the rest of the world, sans Fry, have no immunity to it, so I could see how they would find that troublesome and worthy of mass hysteria.

Actually, mass hysteria seems pretty common in the 31st century anyway...

[Reply #235 on:]

A thought just occurred to me; in Roswell That Ends Well they travelled back to a time in which the common cold existed. They also did this recently in ATPH too. It's funny that none of them caught anything back there given that they have no immune system against colds. I guess perhaps no one they came into contact with had a cold, but it's just a thought I had...

[Reply #236 on:]

That's what I heard Gorky.  The idea behind most of the scary flus like Spanish Flu and Bird Flu and wotnot, is because the majority of their victims tended to be healthy adults with their immune systems being top notch, rather then babies and old people who have weaker immune systems.  The idea behind it is that the virus sends the immune system to overload and basically attack itself, and the healthier and stronger your immune system is, the more likely you are to die, rather then people with weakened immune systems like babies and old people.  

Its more complicated then that, but thats basiacally it in a nutshell.

As for the common cold, it has been eradicated from society, so I guess people panicked and assumed that the human body would no longer have any resistance to it.  Throw in a bunch of aliens who are also supsceptible (remember the ending to War of the Worlds?) and you would have a full blown panic.  Pretty much every major new flu is expected to kill millions, complete with scary documentaries and mass fear mongering.  The best of the scary documentaries about the bird flu had a woman saying: "But the cure won't bring back my Julia."  Then they showed a photograph of a woman who was supposed to have "died" in the shows speculated epidemic and sad piano music played.  It was pretty WTF.

[Reply #237 on:]

it really irked me that Kif showed no signs of worry regarding Amy at all.

I can't understand why everyone's complaining about Kif not having a BORING whinge about Amy. Kif was at his absolute best in this episode, going back to his classic ways of thinking everything Zapp does and says is stupid. And Zapp jamming his face into the fire button is absolutely brilliant. This is the best Kif scene since his relationship with Amy. I mean seriously, are we talking about Days of Our Lives here? or Futurama?

It's bothersome because it's out of character. I don't care about Kif and Amy's relationship to the point that I have to see how he'd react -but I don't want to see him behaving out of character because that's bad writing and not caring that the woman he's in love with is most likely about to be killed by his indirect actions is about as out of character as he could get.

Okay, I just watched it a 2nd time and it worked a lot more for me, but I also realised one of the key things that really bothered me:

It's never established how much of a threat the common cold is to society. It appears to behave just as it does nowadays, but the characters behave as if it's far more deadly than that.

Ever hear of the 1918 flu?

Yes. And that was established to be a threat. My problem, as I said, was that they never established to what degree the common cold was a threat in the episode. I didn't know if it was supposed to be genuinely dangerous or just mass hysteria kicked up for no reason. I wouldn't mind either, I'd just like to know what's supposed to be happening. The planet express crew all seemed to be ill, but no more than Fry who said himself "it's just a common cold", so he obviously wasn't too distressed. If the professor doesn't die, then surely it's very harmless, but then perhaps it just took time to take hold?

[Reply #238 on:]

I would have liked to see more serious consequences of the cold, to have it established that having it spread on Earth without an antidote would be a disaster by biblical proportions. But I don't mind it playing out this way either.

[Reply #239 on:]

The idea behind most of the scary flus like Spanish Flu and Bird Flu and wotnot, is because the majority of their victims tended to be healthy adults with their immune systems being top notch, rather then babies and old people who have weaker immune systems.  

Oh boy. The majority of victims of the Spanish Flu and the Bird Flu were people who had no resistance to that particular viral strain. Spanish Flu, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, all the other mass media whipping boys that have existed, they're all more likely to kill you if you're a baby or an old fart. The thing is, your immune system isn't the issue here, it's the antibodies that you've got stored in memory.

Your immune system has a memory, y'see. It's about ten years long, and everything you're exposed to over the decade has a specific antibody or antigen that will take it down. Your body learns how to produce these, and stores the pattern, so it can make lymphocytes with the antigens that are tailor-made for taking the virus or the bacterial infection or the tiny people in a miniature submarine all the way to Hell, kicking and screaming.

This is why vaccinations work. A measured and controlled infection is introduced (either dead cells or a culture that's not going to attack, or something that's already got the right antigen patterns in it). The body sends generic white blood cells to investigate, and they learn the correct response - so they've already got it when you encounter the pathogen for real.

However, as good as your immune system might be, it's still at square one when it's got no learned pattern to fall back on. It takes time for the body to recognise a new threat, and more time to learn how to combat it. The flu variants are fast-spreading and quickly overwhelm the immune response rather than turning it against itself. Before the body can learn how to kill off the flu, the flu is killing off the parts of the body that are supposed to be doing the learning.

Again, most of the victims of things like Spanish and Avian flu were vulnerable in some way. Children. The Elderly. People who were slightly run-down and not in the best shape for fighting the virus.

But yes, some victims were otherwise healthy adults - who had no learned resistance to the virus or to anything similar. When that virus happens to be an incredibly aggressive strain of a disease that's very fast acting, you end up thoroughly saturated with it before your immune system can mount a defense.

The idea behind it is that the virus sends the immune system to overload and basically attack itself, and the healthier and stronger your immune system is, the more likely you are to die, rather then people with weakened immune systems like babies and old people.  

No. The flu virus overwhelms the immune system - the virus you described there is HIV, and that's a whole different kettle of fish. Over a number of years, the HIV infection spreads through the immune system, either overloading it and making it fight itself, or simply rendering it inert. It depends very much on the overall health of the victim. It's complex.

The flu virus is much simpler by comparison. It spreads rapidly, and overhwelms immune response cells that do not have the proper defenses. By the time the body has a defense against the virus, it has mutated slightly. The new mutation won't respond to the antigens that the immune system is producing, and so it goes on killing off any immune response cells that are sent to fight it. Your body wears itself out producing soldiers that are effectively useless, with the virus changing very quickly. Each time your body learns a new antigen, it's already ineffective against the next generation of the virus.

As for the common cold

As for the common cold, it's nowhere near as aggressive as the flu. The common cold actually both mutates and spreads rather more slowly, and the body has time to modify existing defenses as the virus changes - this is why you get over a cold much more easily. The virus is suppressed by a learned response that is adapted to each new viral generation just as fast as the virus mutates. The cold is also more susceptible to a wider range of defenses, and the body is able to fight the infection with fewer resources.

You pick up the beginning of these learned responses from your mother, in the womb. As you get older, and are exposed to more and more pathogens, you put together your own set of defenses and methods of fighting infection. White blood cells in your body begin to carry a "standard" set of antigens, and the antibodies you produce are tailor-made to fight what you've encountered, and what gets into your system the most often.

As for people who've never had a cold before, they don't have learned responses in their system, and they are therefore at risk from the common cold virus. If they don't manage to respond to the virus properly within a very short space of time, the virus becomes dominant, and their immune system will deplete itself fighting the virus ineffectively. Eventually, they'll learn a response that works, but there's a good chance that an aggressive strain of the virus will overwhelm their immune system before they can do that.

If it's not aggressive, the virus will eventually be contained and mopped up by the immune system, but it will take time, and leave the victim more vulnerable to other pathogens. Whole populations of people with no resistance have been decimated by the common cold, during the age of exploration.

Good primary care will actually stop colds and the flu from being a threat to anybody with a healthy immune system. If the victim doesn't contract another pathogen, is kept fed, hydrated, comfortable, and at a constant temperature, they should be able to beat the virus. This is why the doctor will tell you to get a week's bed-rest in order to beat the flu. You load up on flu meds to alleviate the symptoms, drink plenty of orange juice in order to stimulate your immune response with a shitload of vitamin C, and stay tucked into your covers watching crappy daytime TV.

It works.

The human immune system doesn't give up easily, and once an effective defense is found, the body will go on the offensive. The immune system suddenly becomes a war machine, cranking out cells that will fight the virus, and also learn from the experience. Suddenly, the makings of an effective defense for the future are in place. Not only will the body recognise the invading cells more easily next time, it will already have a wide array of antibodies with which to overwhelm the infection before it can take hold.

That's what it's all about. Antibodies. Antigens. The building blocks of an effective immune response.

This is as good a reason as any (and there are a couple of others I can think of) for the population of NNY to panic when confronted with a virus for which no antibodies or antigens have existed within the wider population for centuries.

Once a vaccine exists, the new virus is no threat, and we see NNY returned to Earth, the denizens lining up to get a shot from the Professor.

All that's really beside the point here, which is that in our current day and age, nobody in the first world with a healthy immune system should be worried about colds or the various strains of the flu. They're at worst an inconvenience. As long as you have food, clean water, perhaps a box of Beechams capsules, and you're not surrounded by your own filth, you can rest and recover from the cold and flu viruses that you pick up from time to time. You're not at massive risk from secondary infections, and you're not totally bereft of an immune response. You'll find a way to fight one viral generation and from there you'll find a way to overwhelm the previous and successive generations. The virus doesn't kill you, after all.

It's a combination of secondary pathogens and symptomatic trauma that kills you. You can alleviate these easily with over-the-counter medications specifically designed to combat them. Most flu meds will contain pain relief for the aches and pains, a decongestant to stop you losing all your bodily fluids to snot manufacture, a mild stimulant to help perk you up a little, or a sedative to help you sleep (oh boy, sleep! That's where you're a viking!) in order to allow you to combat the virus and get on with your busy 21st-century lifestyle.

With all that under your belt, you're able to fight the virus harder for longer, since the symptoms aren't putting you in any danger. This is also the reason why people no longer shit themselves to death (at least in the first world) when they get diarrhea. We have access to clean water, and can ride the disease out without dehydration (which is what leads to death).

In addition, the immune response to these diseases spreads amongst the population over time. To quote fight club, on a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero. This holds true for the diseases that plague our bodies. If we can ride out the symptoms, eventually our bodies find a way to fight their causative agents.

I've rambled on long enough. The point I was originally making before this was that your immune system doesn't turn around and attack itself when you get a cold or the flu. The strength of your immune system doesn't have any sort of inversely proportional relationship to your chances of surviving a new flu strain. What matters is medication to fight the symptoms, clean water (plenty of it), adequate sanitation, and the occasional simple, nourishing meal to provide the body with raw materials.