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Author Topic: Thoughts on 6ACV18 - The Tip of the Zoidberg - SPOILERS!  (Read 18596 times)
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Bend-err

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« Reply #200 on: 08-21-2011 18:33 »

Indeed. I'm with svip on this. There might be slight issues that makes you wonder why someone did something. But nothing that actually right out goes against what this episode tried to build.
Kind like life, people do stupid things that sometimes make little to no sense. No reason why cartoon characters can't do so either.
flesheatingbull

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« Reply #201 on: 08-21-2011 18:35 »

futurama has much better continuity than most other cartoons(if not all), so i don't mind little nitpicks like this.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #202 on: 08-21-2011 18:39 »

Well, even if we let him off for being horny, he wasn't horny when he tried committing suicide with the sword...

So?  I don't doubt Zoidberg for being willing to give up at times.  Even if it meant he could not live up to his promise to Farnsworth.

He prioritised a glass bottle over it though; it makes The Tip of the Zoidberg seem almost meaningless if we are to forgive this. Maybe itís just me, but I find it hard to take away any substance from the story aspect of The Tip of the Zoidberg because it comes off as being poorly thought through as the weight behind it contradicts previous episodes. It comes of as more of an excuse to keep Dr Zoidberg and while doing so get the basis of an episode in the can...

We never needed an excuse to keep him before, it was always funny in its own way that he was a useless doctor and no one seemed to care. I guess thatís why I thought this story didnít really need to be told...
Svip

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« Reply #203 on: 08-21-2011 18:40 »

I agree with you that this story wasn't particularly interesting or needed to be told.
DannyJC13

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« Reply #204 on: 08-21-2011 18:41 »

I agree with you that this story wasn't particularly interesting or needed to be told.

No, it should of been told. But the secret should've been much, much better. hmpf
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #205 on: 08-21-2011 18:50 »

Plus he tried to kill himself over ten dollars.  That should say that he's not exactly the sharpest shell on the seabed. 
AdrenalinDragon

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« Reply #206 on: 08-21-2011 18:55 »

I'm surprised alot of people didn't like this episode. This, Law & Oracle, and The Silence Of The Clamps are my favourite episodes of Season 6B so far. You guys are just being picky on this episode for the sake of hating it.
flesheatingbull

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« Reply #207 on: 08-21-2011 18:58 »

I'm surprised alot of people didn't like this episode. This, Law & Oracle, and The Silence Of The Clamps are my favourite episodes of Season 6B so far. You guys are just being picky on this episode for the sake of hating it.

+1
DannyJC13

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« Reply #208 on: 08-21-2011 19:03 »

I've enjoyed all eps so far! big grin

Except Yo Leela Leela... no no
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #209 on: 08-21-2011 19:05 »

I'm surprised alot of people didn't like this episode. This, Law & Oracle, and The Silence Of The Clamps are my favourite episodes of Season 6B so far. You guys are just being picky on this episode for the sake of hating it.

I don't hate it, it's one of my favorites.  I think Law and Oracle was just another mediocre episode.  This suffered from a lot of the problems plaguing 6b (being thin on the jokes, pacing problems, rushed and sloppy ending), but it had the excuse of having a strong, character driven plot.  If it wasn't for the genuine emotion to make up for the lack of humour, in Jurassic Bark it would a very poor episode.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #210 on: 08-21-2011 19:22 »

I'm surprised alot of people didn't like this episode. This, Law & Oracle, and The Silence Of The Clamps are my favourite episodes of Season 6B so far. You guys are just being picky on this episode for the sake of hating it.

Picky or not, they are valid points. I didn't absolutely hate this ep, but my initial impression was one of being underwhelmed, especially knowing it was written by Ken Keeler and my anticipation being high. Then, the more I thought about it, the more I realised why I had such a problem with it...

Here's another point to raise; the Professor could have just used a Suicide Booth once the first signs of Hypermalaria kicked in rather than keep Dr Zoidberg around just for that purpose. The only reason I can think of why is he wanted it to be a surprise hmpf...
futurefreak

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« Reply #211 on: 08-21-2011 20:37 »

At first I thought the same thing Otis, that Professy could have used anyone to kill him, but the point of the story was that he wanted his closest pal Zoidberg to do it. They did a terrible job explaining the story that lead up to that, though, which is why I felt the relationship between the two characters was not as genuine as it should have been. I understood what they were getting at, but the way it was told, it was a bit far-fetched to me.
spira

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« Reply #212 on: 08-21-2011 20:42 »

We never needed an excuse to keep him before, it was always funny in its own way that he was a useless doctor and no one seemed to care. I guess thatís why I thought this story didnít really need to be told...

I definitely agree with this. Zoidberg is less inherently funny to me after this episode.
Boxy Robot

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« Reply #213 on: 08-21-2011 20:47 »

I doesn't ruin the joke as Zoidberg doesn't need to be the company's doctor, he could work somewhere else and still murder the professor when he is asked

My point is that he's still kept around when he doesn't have to be (But the joke is that he is kept around although being terrible at what he does)
Smarty

Professor
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« Reply #214 on: 08-21-2011 20:55 »

The issue is, the plots set in the present and the past were both crammed into a short 20-something minute episode. It seemed rushed, and unfortunately, rushing something like this has a drawback. Because of that, it wasn't explained as well as it possibly could have, which, like futurefreak said, made the relationship between Zoidberg and Farnsworth feel not genuine, but forced. The way they told it was a little hectic, I admit. I wish they had found a different way. Or that they had thought of a different explanation for why he has kept him this long.

If the episode had been twice as long, more development could have been made, and the story might have actually seemed genuine. Although that'd be better, Futurama is meant to be fit into a half hour block of time. 

They had the potential to make this an outstanding, emotional story. However, it did not live up to that potential and only went halfway.

Personally, I did enjoy the episode, I just wish they could have dug deeper into the topic.
cyber_turnip

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« Reply #215 on: 08-21-2011 21:41 »

Well, even if we let him off for being horny, he wasn't horny when he tried committing suicide with the sword...

I don't know about you, but if I was depressed to the point of attempting suicide, especially in such a spur-of-the-moment fit-of-passion, so to speak, I don't think I would even consider promises I might've made to people. And if I did, I wouldn't care.

I mean, people commit suicide all the time and more often than not, I bet they owe people things, money, favours, they might be God-parents, that sort of thing.
Smarty

Professor
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« Reply #216 on: 08-21-2011 21:42 »

I was thinking. Zoidberg, although he may have been at least a little more likable in the past, may not have had so many friends. I mean, when Farnsworth calls him a "loyal friend" he is surprised, saying "friend?", hinting that maybe he doesn't have many friends. Farnsworth also saved his life, making him in debt to him. He even offered to be his slave or butler. That at least can explain why Zoidberg was so willing to go with the Professor. Also, at this point, leaving Planet Express wouldn't be worth it. He has such a bad reputation as a (human) doctor and he has no value. It would be suicide. And the professor probably doesn't want to bother with hiring a new doctor if he has one that (mostly) does the job for probably little to no pay. And again, if they are such close friends as the show is telling us, throwing him out on the streets wouldn't be an option.

There's a combination of things that explain why Zoidberg is a terrible doctor and why he is still at Planet Express.
futurefreak

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« Reply #217 on: 08-21-2011 21:49 »

I liked the idea of having a Zoidberg origin story. All these years wondering why such a terrible doctor is part of the crew, but then you have to remember how old and senile and wacky the Professor is. As well, by having someone incompetent as him on the staff, it makes the series relateable in the here and now, because there will always be that one person you work with who you think you yourself, "how the heck did he/she get where they are!" It was a great concept, but needed to be told better.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #218 on: 08-21-2011 22:13 »

Well, even if we let him off for being horny, he wasn't horny when he tried committing suicide with the sword...

I don't know about you, but if I was depressed to the point of attempting suicide, especially in such a spur-of-the-moment fit-of-passion, so to speak, I don't think I would even consider promises I might've made to people. And if I did, I wouldn't care.

I mean, people commit suicide all the time and more often than not, I bet they owe people things, money, favours, they might be God-parents, that sort of thing.

Yeah, but it was over a freaking bottle, a bottle!. The Professor saved his life, and then he decides to chuck it away over that? I bought it when I watched 30% Iron Chef because Dr Zoidberg is stupid and desperate for approval. He probably went through all the trouble of framing Fry because he cares so much about the Professor and didn't want to be seen in a bad light by him...

If he cares so much about the Professor and what the Professor thinks though, then he wouldn't have tried committing suicide having made such a promise. We didnít know about this at the time when we first watched 30% Iron Chef, but now it just seems ridiculous and I canít blame 30% Iron Chef for this, so it only seems to weaken The Tip of the Zoidberg's credibility hmpf...
Svip

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« Reply #219 on: 08-21-2011 22:18 »

It was the bottle, it was the principle of it.  I always thought it bothered Zoidberg because he was poor, that he had forced another man to spend 10 dollars! on something he had not done.  I understand his guilt from that perspective.  Even now, it doesn't bother me.  Even Farnsworth seems to be amiss as to why he keeps Zoidberg around in most episodes.

I have a feeling they both often forget why or whether it truly matter.  But now that the crew brought it up, Farnsworth remembered and so did Zoidberg.

The episode also amused me at the fact that Zoidberg was quite knowledgeable in alien autonomy.
Spacedal11

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« Reply #220 on: 08-21-2011 22:18 »

People are saying there is a continuity error with this episode and Mobius Dick. It makes sense to me that Dr. Zoidberg was with the Professor when he started Planet Express. Am I missing something?
Svip

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« Reply #221 on: 08-21-2011 22:19 »

That "MŲbius Dick" implies that Planet Express started in 2951, while it is mentioned in "Insane in the Mainframe" that Zoidberg was hired in 2992.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #222 on: 08-21-2011 22:47 »

It was the bottle, it was the principle of it.  I always thought it bothered Zoidberg because he was poor, that he had forced another man to spend 10 dollars! on something he had not done.  I understand his guilt from that perspective.  Even now, it doesn't bother me.  Even Farnsworth seems to be amiss as to why he keeps Zoidberg around in most episodes.

I have a feeling they both often forget why or whether it truly matter.  But now that the crew brought it up, Farnsworth remembered and so did Zoidberg.

The episode also amused me at the fact that Zoidberg was quite knowledgeable in alien autonomy.

In the end as you say it was his guilt for Fry, but he framed Fry because he cared about the Professor. Killing himself will only break his promise to the Professor and make things worse. Having your life saved by someone and causing someone to pay $10 are in completely different ball parks...

If they did both forget then I wish they'd have kept it that way...
cyber_turnip

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« Reply #223 on: 08-21-2011 22:54 »

Well, even if we let him off for being horny, he wasn't horny when he tried committing suicide with the sword...

I don't know about you, but if I was depressed to the point of attempting suicide, especially in such a spur-of-the-moment fit-of-passion, so to speak, I don't think I would even consider promises I might've made to people. And if I did, I wouldn't care.

I mean, people commit suicide all the time and more often than not, I bet they owe people things, money, favours, they might be God-parents, that sort of thing.

Yeah, but it was over a freaking bottle, a bottle!. The Professor saved his life, and then he decides to chuck it away over that? I bought it when I watched 30% Iron Chef because Dr Zoidberg is stupid and desperate for approval. He probably went through all the trouble of framing Fry because he cares so much about the Professor and didn't want to be seen in a bad light by him...

If he cares so much about the Professor and what the Professor thinks though, then he wouldn't have tried committing suicide having made such a promise. We didnít know about this at the time when we first watched 30% Iron Chef, but now it just seems ridiculous and I canít blame 30% Iron Chef for this, so it only seems to weaken The Tip of the Zoidberg's credibility hmpf...


The entire joke of that subplot was how Zoidberg was blowing things out of proportion in his head regarding the bottle. So yeah, I stand by what I said.
Svip

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« Reply #224 on: 08-21-2011 22:54 »

He framed Fry because he was afraid of the consequences of being caught.  Not because he cared about the Professor.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #225 on: 08-21-2011 22:58 »
« Last Edit on: 08-21-2011 23:00 »

If he didn't care about the professor, then killing himself only went to prove that he didn't care about his promise to the Professor either, and as friendship is something Dr Zoidberg values so highly it seems like a real plot flaw to me...

Also, what consequences? He doesn't get paid enough to repay $10, and the Professor would've kept him around anyway so that Dr Zoidberg could fulfil his promise...
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #226 on: 08-21-2011 23:50 »

Well, even if we let him off for being horny, he wasn't horny when he tried committing suicide with the sword...

I don't know about you, but if I was depressed to the point of attempting suicide, especially in such a spur-of-the-moment fit-of-passion, so to speak, I don't think I would even consider promises I might've made to people. And if I did, I wouldn't care.

I mean, people commit suicide all the time and more often than not, I bet they owe people things, money, favours, they might be God-parents, that sort of thing.

Yeah, but it was over a freaking bottle, a bottle!. The Professor saved his life, and then he decides to chuck it away over that? I bought it when I watched 30% Iron Chef because Dr Zoidberg is stupid and desperate for approval. He probably went through all the trouble of framing Fry because he cares so much about the Professor and didn't want to be seen in a bad light by him...

If he cares so much about the Professor and what the Professor thinks though, then he wouldn't have tried committing suicide having made such a promise. We didn?t know about this at the time when we first watched 30% Iron Chef, but now it just seems ridiculous and I can?t blame 30% Iron Chef for this, so it only seems to weaken The Tip of the Zoidberg's credibility hmpf...


The entire joke of that subplot was how Zoidberg was blowing things out of proportion in his head regarding the bottle. So yeah, I stand by what I said.

Anyone who tries to kill themselves over ten dollars is quite frankly, an idiot blowing out of proportion.  To compound things further, when he destroys that priceless antique sword, he blames Fry and runs away. 
futurefreak

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« Reply #227 on: 08-21-2011 23:56 »

Maybe like others have pointed out, their previous interactions have caused me to also disbelieve the relationship put on by the Professor and Zoidberg in this episode. Whereas for Lethal Inspection, there weren't any big previous interactions between Hermes and Bender before that episode (that I can think of). It's like if there were to be a reveal of how Hermes and Zoidberg were BFFs long ago, before Hermes started hating Zoidberg. Actually...that might be kind of funny.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #228 on: 08-22-2011 00:03 »

I know the feeling!  I lost a few of my friends after they got a new friend who took an extreme dislike to me, and managed to get my original friends to dislike me. 

Bah.  I made myself feel sad now.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #229 on: 08-22-2011 00:15 »

Friends like Adele confused...
futurefreak

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« Reply #230 on: 08-22-2011 00:25 »

I know the feeling!  I lost a few of my friends after they got a new friend who took an extreme dislike to me, and managed to get my original friends to dislike me. 

Bah.  I made myself feel sad now.
Ah, story of my life SpaceGoldfish...
Jezzem

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« Reply #231 on: 08-22-2011 00:30 »

I don't think it's fair to say that the Professor didn't have to keep Zoidberg around because he easily could have killed himself or gotten someone else to kill him. I think that it was also because they'd been through some stuff together and are now close friends because of it. I know I'd want to keep my friend around, even if they hadn't agreed to kill me.

I also didn't have too hard a time believing that the Professor and Zoidberg were old friends, what with Zoidberg being previously referred to as the Professor's "oldest friend" before this episode.
cyber_turnip

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« Reply #232 on: 08-22-2011 00:42 »

Well, even if we let him off for being horny, he wasn't horny when he tried committing suicide with the sword...

I don't know about you, but if I was depressed to the point of attempting suicide, especially in such a spur-of-the-moment fit-of-passion, so to speak, I don't think I would even consider promises I might've made to people. And if I did, I wouldn't care.

I mean, people commit suicide all the time and more often than not, I bet they owe people things, money, favours, they might be God-parents, that sort of thing.

Yeah, but it was over a freaking bottle, a bottle!. The Professor saved his life, and then he decides to chuck it away over that? I bought it when I watched 30% Iron Chef because Dr Zoidberg is stupid and desperate for approval. He probably went through all the trouble of framing Fry because he cares so much about the Professor and didn't want to be seen in a bad light by him...

If he cares so much about the Professor and what the Professor thinks though, then he wouldn't have tried committing suicide having made such a promise. We didn?t know about this at the time when we first watched 30% Iron Chef, but now it just seems ridiculous and I can?t blame 30% Iron Chef for this, so it only seems to weaken The Tip of the Zoidberg's credibility hmpf...


The entire joke of that subplot was how Zoidberg was blowing things out of proportion in his head regarding the bottle. So yeah, I stand by what I said.

Anyone who tries to kill themselves over ten dollars is quite frankly, an idiot blowing out of proportion.  To compound things further, when he destroys that priceless antique sword, he blames Fry and runs away.  

Again, his fickle nature regarding it is the joke. I think it works because of the rule of funny, but I suppose I can understand if people disagree with that.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #233 on: 08-22-2011 02:35 »

Exactly, that's the joke.  He goes from such remorse that Fry couldn't be an overpriced turkey baster that he would kill himself, then proceed to blame Fry for the destruction of the priceless sword.  It felt very Zoidy.

Naaah, I wasnt friends with Adele.  I'm pretty sure she found me rather annoying! Or I might be overreacting, I am a bit of a drama queen.

Aww Futurefreak, that's too sad.  Let me make you some peanutbutter cheesecake.
EvilChicken

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« Reply #234 on: 08-22-2011 02:51 »

Things I enjoyed:
Prof and Zoidberg feeding the owls
The flashbacks
Zoidbergs surgical mishaps
The Murderlator
Zoidbergs 'escape method'
The crews reaction to Scruffy being fired
Zoidberg trying to murder the Professor

There's some other things though, is Hermes being decapited in some way become a trend within the show, I also noticed Benders cooking has improved. That is all...  shifty

Smarty

Professor
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« Reply #235 on: 08-22-2011 03:27 »

Anyone else see this as a clever way of foreshadowing?



coffeeBot

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« Reply #236 on: 08-22-2011 03:33 »

I didn't notice that before, Smarty! You're living up to your name. tongue
I like it a lot, though.
Smarty

Professor
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« Reply #237 on: 08-22-2011 03:42 »

I've now seen this episode three times. Honestly, it gets better. And I get to look for goofs and fun things!
flesheatingbull

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« Reply #238 on: 08-22-2011 04:55 »

I've now seen this episode three times. Honestly, it gets better. And I get to look for goofs and fun things!

agreed. i was especially harsh after the initial view, but after watching it two more times, it keeps getting better.

i especially loved the antique furniture joke.
spira

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« Reply #239 on: 08-22-2011 04:58 »

Smarty, good find. I've only seen this one once and really should go watch it again. I feel like most of these 6B episodes get better after the second or third watch, which may or may not be a good thing?
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