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Author Topic: Thoughts on 6ACV23 - All the Presidents' Heads - SPOILERS!  (Read 16366 times)
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PEE Poll: Rating
1/10 (It Sucked!)   -0 (0%)
2/10   -2 (1.8%)
3/10   -2 (1.8%)
4/10   -2 (1.8%)
5/10   -5 (4.6%)
6/10   -12 (11%)
7/10   -13 (11.9%)
8/10   -36 (33%)
9/10   -27 (24.8%)
10/10 (Awesome!)   -10 (9.2%)
Total Voters: 109

Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #160 on: 07-30-2011 23:49 »

i've now noticed a few folks commenting on there being no more opal on earth. i shut my mouth until now.

SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY CAN TRAVEL IT!!! INTERPLANETARY COMMERCE!!!!!!!!! how does it work?

Please refer me to the episode/episodes in which it is confirmed that it exists somewhere else in the universe and nullifies that this is an assumption...

Please refer me to the episode/episodes in which it is confirmed that it doesn't exist somewhere else in the universe.

Why would she say it if not for the suggested implication that that is all there is left thatís obtainable for this purpose? Why would more than one viewer interpret it this way if that was not the intended purpose in her saying it? Those are the questions I have to raise to refute your point that it could theoretically exist elsewhere in the universe...


you know what happens when you make assumptions, don't you? i realize that this is a double edged sword, but i also didn't begin making assumptions.

If I am to accept your point as fact, then I must propose that the Futurama writers made a fail by using the word "world" instead of "universe" because as you say, if it exists elsewhere in the universe then they could just get on their spaceship and travel there. This being the case there would be no point in her saying what she did while using the word "World". Given this scenario I still feel this is a criticism worth making about this episode...
Whatawut

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« Reply #161 on: 07-31-2011 00:10 »

Why do you always do this, Otis???
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #162 on: 07-31-2011 00:17 »

Why do you always do this, Otis???

Why are you asking, Whatawut? I was originally agreeing with cyber_turnip's point regarding this episode. This formed part of my review, and since then I have explained why I agreed with that point in more detail due to being asked to do so. It seems quite obvious to me, I replied to a question just as I am doing to you, but your question is not on topic which leads me to ask why you asked it?...
Whatawut

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« Reply #163 on: 07-31-2011 00:20 »

Ok if you enjoy what you're doing, go for it. Just checking! ^_^
EvilChicken

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« Reply #164 on: 07-31-2011 00:48 »

I don't know why, but I really loved the idea of double decker hover-buses. Just thought I'd add that in here.
flesheatingbull

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« Reply #165 on: 07-31-2011 01:31 »

Ok if you enjoy what you're doing, go for it. Just checking! ^_^

for his sake, i certainly hope not.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #166 on: 07-31-2011 01:52 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2011 02:07 »

Ok if you enjoy what you're doing, go for it. Just checking! ^_^

for his sake, i certainly hope not.

You just can't help yourself, can you?...

edit - Your off-topic derailing of threads has in this case unfortunately lead me to also go off-topic, so to help rectify this issue and give this post some sort of value, I will add that I enjoyed the family tree near the beginning of the ep. In particular I enjoyed Fry's branch being riddled with fungus and dung beetles. Nice gag that one...
winna

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« Reply #167 on: 07-31-2011 01:56 »

I have to wonder if Baker kept the original.

He did; in fact, there are stories of him choking people to death with it in his flat.
Rush

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« Reply #168 on: 07-31-2011 02:21 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2011 02:29 »

This my theory of the British Universe's History from All the Presidents' Heads.  I don't mean to tread on any political view or offend amyone it's just a summary of what might the history of this universe would of been.

In April 15, 1865, slavery was abolished (Since Hermes being a member of one of the unfortunate races that was enslaved, like my race the Irish. And again this is only guess work. Yet it seems Hermes is free, as for Zoidberg I'm not sure. )

1914: First World War.

April 25 1916: The Irish War of Independence is crushed by the overwhelming might of the British Empire.

1918: End of the First World War.

1920: England gave Ireland it's freedom but kept the north. (Only a theory, England may have kept control over Ireland. But Ireland would be a hard place for England to control so they may given up at some point from trying to hold onto it.)

1939 Second War World War.

1945: End of the Second War World War

2000: Fry is frozen.

2225: The Evil Empire (Don't want to name any country.) Began a nuclear war with England, which left the Earth in a Nuclear Winter creating the mutants thus Leela's ancestors.

Space Age happens sometime after.

Fry, Bender, Leela and Farnsworth come into the alternate future.
futz
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« Reply #169 on: 07-31-2011 03:09 »

Maybe "Opal" refers to the 20th Century car and not the stone.

1st act may have actually been too short since Dr. Cahill hadn't drunk enough to take her clothes off.
futurefreak

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« Reply #170 on: 07-31-2011 05:40 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2011 05:53 »

Ok finally saw it.

It was okay. Entertaining to watch but nothing more deep obviously, which is ok they can't all be TLPJF. I thought the method of time travel was kinda stupid and dumbed down though - and yeah, Hermes this year is known for the hemp jokes. I remember when they were very apprehensive to do a time travel episode when they did Roswell....now they're traveling it seems every few episodes...it's just interesting to see the dynamic change as years pass.

Anyways, I at least enjoyed watching this one, and would watch it again soon unlike last week's episode...I would have rated it 7.5/10 but instead it gets...

8/10!

edit: Oh I forgot to mention, did anyone else think that buildup for the Queen was very strong? Was it meant for the audience to think wrongly that the Queen was Mom? Because when I was watching that I kept waiting for Mom to come out. 
futurefreak

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« Reply #171 on: 07-31-2011 05:57 »

But I mean, I still laughed enough and thought it was basically okay. Modern Simpsons this ain't. The British New York scenes in particular were quite funny. But easily the weakest time-travel show and maybe the weakest of season 6 (In a Gadda Da Leela is the main competition).

Scruffy's voice: "Second."
Whoa Ricky, have you just been lurking here for a year since your last post? Welcome back dude!!! big grin big grin
Frisco17

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« Reply #172 on: 07-31-2011 07:08 »

edit: Oh I forgot to mention, did anyone else think that buildup for the Queen was very strong? Was it meant for the audience to think wrongly that the Queen was Mom? Because when I was watching that I kept waiting for Mom to come out. 

Same here. I actually think that would have been funnier.
flesheatingbull

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« Reply #173 on: 07-31-2011 07:36 »

edit: Oh I forgot to mention, did anyone else think that buildup for the Queen was very strong? Was it meant for the audience to think wrongly that the Queen was Mom? Because when I was watching that I kept waiting for Mom to come out. 

Same here. I actually think that would have been funnier.

i expected mom, and was pleasantly surprised when they didn't use her. the more new characters, the better.
Svip

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« Reply #174 on: 07-31-2011 08:21 »

This my theory of the British Universe's History from All the Presidents' Heads.  I don't mean to tread on any political view or offend amyone it's just a summary of what might the history of this universe would of been.

You offend my knowledge of history!

In April 15, 1865, slavery was abolished (Since Hermes being a member of one of the unfortunate races that was enslaved, like my race the Irish. And again this is only guess work. Yet it seems Hermes is free, as for Zoidberg I'm not sure.)

Hermes isn't of African origin, he's Jamaican, whom largely originate from the Caribbean.  Remember: When the Europeans came to the New World, it was not empty.

1914: First World War.

Why?  You have changed a huge factor in history, why is there a First World War again?

April 25 1916: The Irish War of Independence is crushed by the overwhelming might of the British Empire.

Why would the Irish even bother?  Considering that the British Empire survives this far into the future, I am having a hunch that they wouldn't bother with their war of independence at all (or at the very least not on this specific date).

1918: End of the First World War.

1920: England gave Ireland it's freedom but kept the north. (Only a theory, England may have kept control over Ireland. But Ireland would be a hard place for England to control so they may given up at some point from trying to hold onto it.)

England != Britain.  And that seems a little odd for the Empire to suddenly give in to a small minority's demands?  But then I could ask the following questions; why isn't Canada independent in the future?  If Canada isn't, then I doubt Ireland would be.  Especially considering that Mexico is also a part of their Grand North American 'colony'.

1939 Second War World War.

1945: End of the Second War World War

One: It's called the Second World War, not the Second War World War.  But more importantly, I doubt a First World War to begin with, and even if the First World War did occur with the same reasoning as 'ours', then it would have been vastly different.  In either case, there would not have been the same preconditions for the need for a Second World War.

The First World War leads to the Second World War.

2000: Fry is frozen.

2225: The Evil Empire (Don't want to name any country.) Began a nuclear war with England, which left the Earth in a Nuclear Winter creating the mutants thus Leela's ancestors.

Space Age happens sometime after.

Fry, Bender, Leela and Farnsworth come into the alternate future.

This is the most likely part of your timeline.
Rush

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« Reply #175 on: 07-31-2011 09:40 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2011 13:06 »

Later I realized I made a few mistakes Svip. And this is only a theory, I only half believe it myself.

Svip care to give your view of what might of happened during the British Universe's History?
futurefreak

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« Reply #176 on: 07-31-2011 09:51 »

edit: Oh I forgot to mention, did anyone else think that buildup for the Queen was very strong? Was it meant for the audience to think wrongly that the Queen was Mom? Because when I was watching that I kept waiting for Mom to come out. 

Same here. I actually think that would have been funnier.

i expected mom, and was pleasantly surprised when they didn't use her. the more new characters, the better.
I'm all up for the introduction of new characters, but in this instance I felt they missed a golden opportunity to bring back Mom, considering "the Queen's" relationship with the Professor and Mom's desire to rule the planet. Unless, of course, the writers meant to make Mom a red herring. I do think Mom would have been funnier in that role though. I would have liked to hear her curse in Brit talk big grin
hopie4ever

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« Reply #177 on: 07-31-2011 10:37 »

In April 15, 1865, slavery was abolished (Since Hermes being a member of one of the unfortunate races that was enslaved, like my race the Irish. And again this is only guess work. Yet it seems Hermes is free, as for Zoidberg I'm not sure.)

Hermes isn't of African origin, he's Jamaican, whom largely originate from the Caribbean.  Remember: When the Europeans came to the New World, it was not empty.
Sugar, like cotton, doesn't pick itself
It is very hot in the Caribbean and it was better to import someone to do it for you

edit: Oh I forgot to mention, did anyone else think that buildup for the Queen was very strong? Was it meant for the audience to think wrongly that the Queen was Mom? Because when I was watching that I kept waiting for Mom to come out. 

I was also expecting Mom to be queen, although if it had been her then Farnsworth wouldnt have been so keen to change history back
futurefreak

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« Reply #178 on: 07-31-2011 10:47 »

Hmmm...that is an interesting topic! Had the Queen been Mom would Farnsworth have changed it back? Well we already know one of her princes would be descended from him.
Svip

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« Reply #179 on: 07-31-2011 12:58 »

Later I raised I made a few mistakes Svip. And this is only a theory, I only half believe it myself.

Well, some of the mistakes seemed rather obvious.  The episode seems to avoid discussing the French's participation in the American Revolution (which is why they won to begin with) or how the Napoleonic Wars went.

Although, I did like the Monty Python animation parody.

Svip care to give your view of what might of happened during the British Universe's History?

I am more likely to believe the British Empire to be the 'Evil Empire'.  And its stability is vastly ahistorical.

In April 15, 1865, slavery was abolished (Since Hermes being a member of one of the unfortunate races that was enslaved, like my race the Irish. And again this is only guess work. Yet it seems Hermes is free, as for Zoidberg I'm not sure.)

Hermes isn't of African origin, he's Jamaican, whom largely originate from the Caribbean.  Remember: When the Europeans came to the New World, it was not empty.
Sugar, like cotton, doesn't pick itself
It is very hot in the Caribbean and it was better to import someone to do it for you

Sure, but you might as well 'employ' the locals first.
hobbitboy

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« Reply #180 on: 07-31-2011 13:07 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2011 13:43 »

"We use a rare form of powdered crystalline opal."

This doesn't necessitate that all opals have been mined out or even that every any opal can be used to create more of the stuff, only that the final processed form is rare. Maybe only opals of a certain chemical composition will do, or perhaps the process is very expensive. What if it has no other practical application except for preserving heads, so they didn't bother making any more than was needed?

Personally, I don't see using up all the powdered crystalline opal as being any worse than denaturing all the dark matter,  the writers just made up a new starship fuel (whale oil) and can easily do the same with the head preserving process.



   Benderloveer, shut up. You're obviously a troll or taking the piss. Who likes Yo Leela Leela over this?!


I guess I qualify. I gave this one a 7 and Yo Leela Leela an 8.



   Sure, but you might as well 'employ' the locals first.


What if the locals have been decimated by disease and alcohol addiction?

Don't hate me, Trinity.  I'm just the messenger.
Svip

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« Reply #181 on: 07-31-2011 13:27 »

Well, I like "Yo Leela Leela" more than this one; partly because "Yo Leela Leela" didn't insult my intelligence and knowledge this much!  The whole trip to the colonial times and the 'British future' frustrated me, because it was too ahistorical.  I had just gotten over the illogical 'Earth Government' that is the setting of Futurama, and then this!  At least "Yo Leela Leela" did not pretend.  It was what it was and that is what it is likeable about it.  It didn't lie to me.  Like Cop Dog did.
futz
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« Reply #182 on: 07-31-2011 13:28 »

Hermes is of African descent Svip, likely from imported slaves. The natives are/were, for lack of a better term, Indians much like those in the surrounding Gulf area. Unlikely the natives would be Rastafarian and worship the Ethiopian Haile Selassie or have dreadlocks, etc.
Gorky

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« Reply #183 on: 07-31-2011 14:52 »

"We use a rare form of powdered crystalline opal."

This doesn't necessitate that all opals have been mined out or even that every any opal can be used to create more of the stuff, only that the final processed form is rare. Maybe only opals of a certain chemical composition will do, or perhaps the process is very expensive. What if it has no other practical application except for preserving heads, so they didn't bother making any more than was needed?

Personally, I don't see using up all the powdered crystalline opal as being any worse than denaturing all the dark matter,  the writers just made up a new starship fuel (whale oil) and can easily do the same with the head preserving process.

Agreed. It didn't bother me much, and it was funny to see the Profesor dumping the entire contents of a vial full of what he had just been told was a rare and precious substance into Washington's jar. I figured the writers went for the joke, and left the wishy-washy phrasing ("world" instead of "universe") so that they wouldn't offend the continuity police. Though it looks like that backfired on them anyway. wink

And I rated this episode an 8/10, and "Yo Leela Leela" a 7/10, so I think they're pretty comparable, quality-wise. At least this episode didn't have too many lame-ass pop culture references, and the third act was a bit less nonsensical than YLL's. I don't really think that renders me a person of poor taste, but whatever.
cyber_turnip

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« Reply #184 on: 07-31-2011 15:40 »

The problem is that if there is more crystaline opal, then there's no reason why they can't go back in time to solve their problems in the future.

The writers have always tried to make their time-travel methods extremely rare and impractical in the past so as to stop the characters being able to use them again in the future as a get-out clause.

If there isn't more opal, then that leaves more problems for the heads.

If there is more opal, then in Cold Warriors, they should just go back in time to eliminate the common cold that Fry is carrying before it takes off. And in Overclockwise, they should just travel back and solve whatever problems they might have there.
Otis P Jivefunk

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« Reply #185 on: 07-31-2011 15:44 »

These are more good points you raise, cyber_turnip. Upon further thought I think that I may have been too generous with my score for this ep. I'm thinking more along the lines of 5/10 now, partially for the evident flaws, and partially because I think I overrated it due to wanting something better than last weeks awful episode...
TheAnvil

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« Reply #186 on: 07-31-2011 16:03 »

It certainly didn't stand out amongst the other episodes this season. I gave it 6/10.
Gorky

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« Reply #187 on: 07-31-2011 16:29 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2011 16:31 »

The problem is that if there is more crystaline opal, then there's no reason why they can't go back in time to solve their problems in the future.

The writers have always tried to make their time-travel methods extremely rare and impractical in the past so as to stop the characters being able to use them again in the future as a get-out clause.

If there isn't more opal, then that leaves more problems for the heads.

If there is more opal, then in Cold Warriors, they should just go back in time to eliminate the common cold that Fry is carrying before it takes off. And in Overclockwise, they should just travel back and solve whatever problems they might have there.

Fair enough. But the crew has already seen that going back in time can have pretty awful effects on the present day, so that in itself should be a disincentive for licking more heads and going back in time (backwards time travel has created problems in both "Roswell that Ends Well" and "Bender's Big Score," so at least in this episode there was some point to the time travel--it was really important to the Professor that he clear his family's name).

I mean, the Professor still presumably has his forwards time machine from "The Late Philip J. Fry," but chances are he won't use it again because it was a bit more trouble than it was worth (and, besides, he's seen pretty much all there is to see in the billion or so years the universe has left). And chronitons have temporal properties, but because they've created problems in both "Time Keeps on Slipping" and "Teenage Mutant Leela's Hurdles," chances are they won't be used again, either.

I don't think it's the rarity of a method for traveling through time that accounts for the crew not time traveling all that often--I think it's more the fact that, every time they muck around in history, shit happens.
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #188 on: 07-31-2011 16:41 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2011 17:40 by totalnerduk »

(and, besides, he's seen pretty much all there is to see in the billion or so years the universe has left).

More like several billion multiplied by ten to the power of a rather large number. The universe is very young. It has a rich and long lifetime ahead of it.

Ten billion to the power of 120 years is currently the highest estimate of the lifetime of the universe. I was going to produce a graph showing the difference between this and the current age of the universe (13.7 billion years), but it turns out that "10^10^120" is too long for Microsoft Excel to handle.  hmpf wtf?
Gorky

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« Reply #189 on: 07-31-2011 16:46 »

Damn it, tnuk, I knew I should've double-checked that before I posted it. I thought "or so" would be my saving grace. tongue
Whatawut

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« Reply #190 on: 07-31-2011 17:29 »

Why can't they just come up with a method of preserving heads that doesn't allow for time travel? Solves cyber_turnip's problem, yes?
Zed 85

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« Reply #191 on: 07-31-2011 19:27 »

In April 15, 1865, slavery was abolished (Since Hermes being a member of one of the unfortunate races that was enslaved, like my race the Irish. And again this is only guess work. Yet it seems Hermes is free, as for Zoidberg I'm not sure. )

Maybe the dynamics of keeping hold of America would have altered things but one thing I can tell you is that under real-world circumstances, had America remained part of the British Empire then it would have freed its slaves by 1833. Just FYI tongue
Whatawut

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« Reply #192 on: 07-31-2011 19:37 »

In April 15, 1865, slavery was abolished (Since Hermes being a member of one of the unfortunate races that was enslaved, like my race the Irish. And again this is only guess work. Yet it seems Hermes is free, as for Zoidberg I'm not sure. )

Maybe the dynamics of keeping hold of America would have altered things but one thing I can tell you is that under real-world circumstances, had America remained part of the British Empire then it would have freed its slaves by 1833. Just FYI tongue


What if the profits from cotton-picking in the Southern colonies were enough so that the British Empire allowed slavery to remain in place (or at the very least, in the colonies)?
Spacedal11

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« Reply #193 on: 07-31-2011 20:05 »

I really appreciated the Philo T. Farnsworth reference. I want to see more of the family tree.

@futurefreak: I thought the queen was going to be Mom too. I was kind of disappointed that it wasn't.
cyber_turnip

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« Reply #194 on: 07-31-2011 21:56 »

Why can't they just come up with a method of preserving heads that doesn't allow for time travel? Solves cyber_turnip's problem, yes?

They'd have to show that in the next episode to feature heads in jars for me to be happy -like the whale oil line in Into the Wild Green Yonder.
And it'd still irk me a bit given that preserving the heads in time is such a cool idea for them to have only just revealed to us before taking it away again. Pickling them for instance just isn't as cool and sci-fi.
Whatawut

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« Reply #195 on: 07-31-2011 22:49 »

Why can't they just come up with a method of preserving heads that doesn't allow for time travel? Solves cyber_turnip's problem, yes?

They'd have to show that in the next episode to feature heads in jars for me to be happy -like the whale oil line in Into the Wild Green Yonder.
And it'd still irk me a bit given that preserving the heads in time is such a cool idea for them to have only just revealed to us before taking it away again. Pickling them for instance just isn't as cool and sci-fi.

Totally agreed.
Svip

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« Reply #196 on: 07-31-2011 23:12 »

Why can't they just come up with a method of preserving heads that doesn't allow for time travel? Solves cyber_turnip's problem, yes?

They'd have to show that in the next episode to feature heads in jars for me to be happy -like the whale oil line in Into the Wild Green Yonder.

Then it is important to note that the next episode is "Cold Warriors".  Even if there are several episodes until "Cold Warriors" airs.  You know how it airs compared to how it is produced...
Zed 85

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« Reply #197 on: 07-31-2011 23:50 »
« Last Edit on: 07-31-2011 23:59 »

In April 15, 1865, slavery was abolished (Since Hermes being a member of one of the unfortunate races that was enslaved, like my race the Irish. And again this is only guess work. Yet it seems Hermes is free, as for Zoidberg I'm not sure. )

Maybe the dynamics of keeping hold of America would have altered things but one thing I can tell you is that under real-world circumstances, had America remained part of the British Empire then it would have freed its slaves by 1833. Just FYI tongue


What if the profits from cotton-picking in the Southern colonies were enough so that the British Empire allowed slavery to remain in place (or at the very least, in the colonies)?

Hard to say; the 1833 Act was both a response to anti-slavery campaigns that were based on rather large moral objections and had been going for some time before the American Revolution but also in response to actual slave rebellions, the dynamics of which may or may not have been affected by the American Revolution being foiled. But British cities such as Liverpool and the city I live near - Bristol - were doing very handsomely - economically - from the actual Slave Trade which Britain still banned, even earlier, in 1807, so I'd guess at Britain still abolishing slavery around that time, to be honest.

/edit - I was looking some things up on Davey Farnsworth and it appeared that while Farnsworths invented the Lantern Test and the Electronic Television Camera, there was another bad apple convicted of spying for the Japanese in the 1930s. Maybe we should have an episode where the Professor licks Herbet Hoover.
Or perhaps we shouldn't.
futz
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« Reply #198 on: 08-01-2011 00:54 »

One of the reasons the Southern states thought they could secede and win a war with the North is because they thought England would aid them to get Southern cotton. It was a big ooops! as about the same time England began getting its cotton from India. England had no reason to take sides for the sake of getting cotton. So slavery in the South might have become a wobbly institution for the same reason. Of course, the South could have always put slaves to work in factories (the prospect seems obvious but is never mentioned). That could have raised the ire of both the North and England workers had the War not happened when it did and the South switched from an agrarian economy to an industrial one.
Fnord
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« Reply #199 on: 08-01-2011 04:21 »

I'm really intrigued by the opening cartoon for this episode. It's taken from a promo video made only last year, for a proposed (but ultimately unsuccessful) mascot for the 2014 Winter Olympics: Zoich.

Must ... Buy ... 2014 Olympic Merchandise ...

I suppose we should be thankful that they didn't try to work a Sarah Palin reference into the Paul Revere material.

Or Michele Bachmann ... (Or, as Dave Letterman calls her: Michelle O'Bachmann)

Oh I forgot to mention, did anyone else think that buildup for the Queen was very strong? Was it meant for the audience to think wrongly that the Queen was Mom? Because when I was watching that I kept waiting for Mom to come out. 

That thought was going through my mind as well.

Svip care to give your view of what might of happened during the British Universe's History?

There are lots of books concerning alternate history, written by people who have spent more time on the research than any one of us here. They are listed chronologically at "Uchronia"; the page
http://www.uchronia.net/bib.cgi/diverge.html?o=500
contains stories where the "divergence" is around 1776.

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