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Author Topic: Thoughts on 2ACV19 - The Cryonic Woman  (Read 3668 times)
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AdrenalinDragon

Starship Captain
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« Reply #80 on: 07-09-2011 15:55 »
« Last Edit on: 07-09-2011 21:50 by futurefreak »

Oh my god! It's obvious that SorynArkayn secretly gave The Cryonic Woman a 10/10, and is trying to fight off the peer pressure of PEELers. laff
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #81 on: 07-09-2011 18:56 »
« Last Edit on: 07-09-2011 21:52 by futurefreak »

Oh my god! It's obvious that SorynArkayn secretly gave The Cryonic Woman a 10/10, and is trying to fight off the peer pressure of PEELers. laff
I don't recall if I've ever scored it here on PEEL before, but I'd give it 5.5/10 because of its great first act.
Uh, plenty of people have said that they liked The Cryonic Woman or at least thought the first act was strong enough to make it not the worst episode before you even started posting.

Didn't someone already quote several posts from 2004 defending The Cryonic Woman recently?

I'm aware of the recent quotes about this episode from 2004.

The fact that someone had to dredge up quotes from seven years ago just to provide examples of anyone liking or defending "The Cryonic Woman" was exactly my point when I wrote:

For too long few people have dared to disagree with the supposed majority opinion that "The Cryonic Woman" is one of the worst episodes.
AdrenalinDragon

Starship Captain
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« Reply #82 on: 07-09-2011 19:11 »
« Last Edit on: 07-09-2011 21:54 by futurefreak »

Sigh... It was a joke. I know you didn't give The Cryonic Woman a 10/10. It's just the way you've been defending it sounds like you really love the episode. I personally think the episode is a 9/10 until the 3rd act, but hey, that's my opinion.

At this point of time, you are correct, The Cryonic Woman is probably ranked higher on my list than most people. I still enjoy the episode alot and thought it ended on both a funny and ironic note of Fry staying fired and being dropped out of the ship. One could just argue that the Professor forgot about it later and rehired him, as he always forgets about things. The first act is one of the strongest in the whole series, as it was a cool concept of seeing Fry and Bender working at the Cryogenics lab. I had no problem with Pauly Shore or Michelle at all in this episode.

The twist on the episode not being the year 4000 I still like, and the skateboarding scene is actually one of my favourite moments in the series. I'm just saying that I think you've defended this episode long enough, and some people can't change opinions.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #83 on: 07-09-2011 20:17 »
« Last Edit on: 07-09-2011 21:56 by futurefreak »

For too long few people have dared to disagree with the supposed majority opinion that "The Cryonic Woman" is one of the worst episodes.
A lot of people have said that they like The Cryonic Woman at various points of time within Peelís existence, but none of them made it with your tone or manner. For some reason the responses to their posts differed to the responses to yours.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #84 on: 07-09-2011 20:45 »
« Last Edit on: 07-12-2011 02:39 »

I don't claim that no one has ever admitted to liking "The Cryonic Woman" until now. I'm not trying to changing any individual's opinion, or the majority opinion.
futurefreak

salutatory committee member
Moderator
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #85 on: 07-09-2011 22:01 »
« Last Edit on: 07-11-2011 22:11 »

Thread is back up again. Keep the talk to the show, otherwise I will have to permalock the thread and no one wants to see that, no matter how great or awful the episode is!
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #86 on: 07-15-2011 08:34 »

I've never understood why so many people seem to dislike this episode.

Yes, Michelle is annoying.  She's supposed to be.

Yes, Pauly Shore is a pathetic excuse for a celebrity that only an idiot would hero-worship.  He's supposed to be.

It's a decent episode that has some pretty funny bits.

I agree with this. Like I've said before, the first two acts are really enjoyable; it's only the last act, with its out-of-nowhere "Let's freeze ourselves and come out in a kiddie-controlled wasteland" plot, which I feel falters and doesn't follow logically from what's come before.

Nope, that part's funny too.

"Oh, so it's a little safer than skateboarding."

"Beth said that?"

"That's L.A. for ya!"

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I realize that Michelle didn't fit in in the year 3000, but going forward in time a thousand years probably wasn't going to solve her problems...

Of course not, but that isn't going to stop her from trying, or from talking Fry into doing it with her, even though he'd be sacrificing his happiness now for the chance that she might be happier in the future.  That's just who Michelle is.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #87 on: 07-15-2011 15:45 »

You're right that act three has its moments (I like Fry's line about standing on a gopher, and Michelle threatening him with a "long, boring talk" about their relationship), but I just felt it was so out-of-the-blue and was mostly unamused by the post-apocalyptic, children-are-in-charge society. I also agree that it's in-keeping with Michelle's selfish and manipulative nature to convince Fry that traveling a thousand years into the future will be the best thing for her them...but this is just a case of Cubert Syndrome, where the character who is supposed to be a pain in the ass, and is convincingly written as such, winds up being both a pain in the ass and unfunny. Or at least that's how I see it.

Disclaimer: I actually like Cubert; this phenomena could more accurately be termed Michelle Syndrome, in my opinion.
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #88 on: 07-15-2011 18:48 »

Michelle is funnier than Cubert.

Bitchy ex-girlfriend > twelve-year-old know-it-all any day.
SpaceMaN

Urban Legend
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« Reply #89 on: 07-15-2011 23:23 »

With the events of Bender's Big Score, it's Fry that made this whole episode happen.  Her tube was only set for 300 years or so.  

'History is written by the people who write it.' ~winna
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #90 on: 07-16-2011 00:06 »

So he wanted her to be unfrozen in the year 3000?
SpaceMaN

Urban Legend
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« Reply #91 on: 07-16-2011 00:12 »

I think that was a side-effect of his setting it to get with Leela in the future.  Odd that Michelle wouldn't say anything about being unfrozen 700 years later than requested.  Maybe LarsFry did it to get back at her for Constantine. Geesh, that's a dumb name.
David A

Urban Legend
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« Reply #92 on: 07-16-2011 00:20 »

Odd that Michelle wouldn't say anything about being unfrozen 700 years later than requested.

She probably didn't even notice.  I doubt she's very good at math.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
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« Reply #93 on: 07-16-2011 20:44 »
« Last Edit on: 07-16-2011 20:47 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

I thought it was a great episode, but Michelle is one of the most horrible characters ever.  I mean, her personality wise, as a character she works, since you are supposed to hate her.

There is nothing nice about Michelle, and I really hope she gets some sort of karma for being such a rotten girlfriend to a sweetheart like Fry. Oh and for being a cheating skank as well.   I think everyone has dated someone like Michelle, or has a friend who dated someone like her at some point...   Her humor comes from the fact that she's a horrible person who thinks the entire universe revolves around her, and woe betide anyone who she sinks her claws into.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #94 on: 07-17-2011 20:22 »

Her humor comes from the fact that she's a horrible person who thinks the entire universe revolves around her, and woe betide anyone who she sinks her claws into.

Whilst I don't disagree with this in principle, I find it hard to find that funny. I think you're right in that it's meant to provide the laughs, but I just find her to be such a horrible, unlikeable, irredeemable bitch that I don't think anything she does is amusing. She's not a bad characterisation of a particular type of person I've known all too many of, so the whole "horrible selfish waste of protons" doesn't really resonate with me on a level I can laugh about.

YMMV, of course.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #95 on: 07-25-2011 22:17 »

Bringing this over from the "Yo Leela Leela" thread:

[Long-ass post that I shan't quote in its entirety, hence the link above.]

You provide a lot of examples of episodes that ostensibly disrupt the status quo only to reinstate it in subsequent episodes, Soryn; I don't have much of a rebuttal there, because I think you're more or less spot-on. To be honest, I was mostly just trying to provide a defense for the Slurm Queen's appearance in YLL; though I am by no means a huge fan of TCW, I wouldn't consider myself one of its biggest critics. So, unfortunately, I don't have much a counterargument here. I suppose you'll have to accept the troubling fact that I agree with you. tongue

But, for what it's worth: I guess that the ending of "The Cryonic Woman" is just the crappy icing on an already-frustrating episode for me, which is why I can't be as forgiving of it as I am of the ending of, say, "War is the H-Word" (which is a much more enjoyable episode overall, in my opinion). I'll admit that it's not fair to single the ending of TCW out in particular, when Futurama is by no means a one-time offender when it comes to ending episodes on a cynical, the-world-is-possibly-destroyed note--it's just that I can't find much else redeeming about TCW (specifically its third act) to justify such a screw-you ending as Farnsworth unceremoniously and cruelly possibly-murdering Fry. It's not funny to me--though I know the writers intend for it to be a joke, a play on how sinister and ultimately petty the Professor can be (as well as a statement in utter defiance of Fry's belief that TV shows must reinstate the status quo by an episode's end)--and it just ends an already sub-par episode on a very sour note. In honesty, my problems with TCW's ending are more about aesthetics than about continuity. 
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
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« Reply #96 on: 07-26-2011 00:34 »
« Last Edit on: 07-26-2011 00:35 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

Her humor comes from the fact that she's a horrible person who thinks the entire universe revolves around her, and woe betide anyone who she sinks her claws into.

Whilst I don't disagree with this in principle, I find it hard to find that funny. I think you're right in that it's meant to provide the laughs, but I just find her to be such a horrible, unlikeable, irredeemable bitch that I don't think anything she does is amusing. She's not a bad characterisation of a particular type of person I've known all too many of, so the whole "horrible selfish waste of protons" doesn't really resonate with me on a level I can laugh about.

YMMV, of course.

I don't really think she's funny and isn't meant to.  She's a cynical, emotionally abusive foil to the innocent and sweet Fry.  (hence phrases like "There was that ski instructor she was just friends with!" and "Before she was demanding and possessive.  But now she wants me to do stuff for her and stay with her all the time!"  She does have some good lines like "Quit standing up for yourself, Fry!" and "When we get back, we are going to have a long boring talk about our relationship!"  YMMV though, while I thought she was entertaining, I did hate that for all the crap she put Fry through, she once again managed to drive off with a new boyfriend.  The closest thing to karma was in her flashback when it turns out her husband treated her the same way she treated Fry.  (But like many assholes, she learned nothing from this experience, instead having it only fuel her already massive sense of entitlement.)

So yeah I would like the episode better if she ended up getting her just desserts.  I thought it was a solid episode, and Michelle was a good character.  

By the way is that lady in the pink outfit who often turns up in the People Tube meant to be Michelle?  If so, I am pretty sure that lady dies a lot.  Or we can just pretend its her being fired out a tube to a splattery death in AOI.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #97 on: 07-26-2011 03:16 »

I wasn't going to do this. But to be perfectly honest, I can and am tired of the implications that I lack the capability.

So...

Regarding Fry not getting his job back: I've explained many times before that TCW provides a perfectly plausible explanation for how Fry was re-hired off-screen: the Professor admits that he forgot why he fired Fry.

The fact is, it should've happened onscreen in order to provide a sense of closure. An episode of a sitcom is generally a closed loop - A situation occurs, comedy happens, and then the situation is completely dealt with by the end of the episode. Loose ends are rarely left to flap around, because the viewer is expecting a return to the status quo by the time the credits roll. Writers have been structuring sitcoms like this since the fifties, and there are very few examples of multiple-part episodes, of necessary continuity happening offscreen and it never being referenced (although there's a rich history of the complex and long scene off-camera being summed up with a single line to explain what just happened to return things to the way they were).

The episode began with Fry being fired. The logical conclusion would be to end with him being re-hired, or to have a single line early in the next episode explain why he's back. Since neither occurred, it's somewhat jarring to the continuity of the programme (which was rather good up until that point).

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Presumably if Fry came crawling back to the PlanEx building and begged the Professor for his job back, the Professor would have forgotten why he fired him again, and as long as Bender wasn't present to remind him again, the Professor would've re-hired Fry. It's as simple as that.

But it's not as simple as that. We have no established canon saying that's what happened. We don't even know how Fry survived being dropped from the Planet Express ship whilst in flight over NNY. Even according to the internal cartoon logic of the Futuramaverse, there should've been consequences to that, and they should've happened or at least been referenced onscreen. They werent. Again, somewhat jarring continuity-wise.

BTW, Leela and Bender were apparently re-hired after Fry and Michelle froze themselves, because they were aboard the PlanEx ship when it landed in LA to find Fry. And that was after the Professor refused to re-hire Leela and Bender, because he had a new delivery crew: Amy, Hermes, and Dr. Zoidberg. So if Leela and Bender were re-hired off-screen without explanation, WHY are the TCW-haters harping on the ending so much when Fry isn't re-hired on-screen, and there's no explanation for how he was re-hired in "Amazon in the Mood"?

That's a pretty lame stretching there. At no point is it stated that Leela or Bender have their jobs back either. Fry, Leela and Bender have at this point been hanging around Planet Express for quite a while without actually being employed there - Farnsworth is still Fry's nephew, after all. Plus, Bender and Leela are presumably friendly with the other employees of Planet Express. They went looking for their friend after he hijacked a cryotube and went missing.

Had they been epxlicitly rehired offscreen, it would've been something of a renormalisation and been somewhat less jarring, but there's nothing to suggest that.

As for Amazon Women in the Mood, it should logically have featured even a single line explanation in order to account for Fry being alive and working for Planet Express again. But it didn't. That's the reason that the ending to The Cryonci Woman is being questioned so much. Because it's a major hole in continuity.

Regarding Fry's supposed injuries from being dropped out of the flying PlanEx ship: I've detailed how Fry has survived serious injuries before, and has miraculously healed between scenes and episodes without on-screen explanation.

Fry has had some pretty major assitance with surviving serious injuries before. In Put Your Head On My Shoulder, he was saved from death by Dr. Zoidberg's emergency surgery. In Why Must I Be A Crustacena In Love, he was again given surgery by Zoidberg. In Parasites Lost, he was possessed by spaceworms who repaired his body. The list goes on. Each time Fry is seriously injured onscreen, there's either a visual or dialogue based explanation for how he's wandering around alive and well shortly after. Well, almost each time. There's the whole being dropped out of a spaceship thing that passes without explanation.


Gorky, you claimed that the Professor not re-hiring Fry and then dropping him out of the flying Planet Express ship was "the dumbest, least funny, and most unsatisfying endings of any episode ever". But it's really no "worse" than the endings of many Futurama episodes, which no one seems to have a problem with, including the TCW-haters.

Now this is just plain twisting things. I can defend each and every episode ending here to some degree. Granted, a couple are weak endings. Note how I've never said that The Cryonic Woman has the only weak ending or that it is the only bad episode. For the purposes of this discussion though, let's assume that it's the only one I have a major problem with, since that makes this less complicated and means I have to work harder to justify my dislike of it.

I may start using words and phrases from TVtropes. In fact, I almost certainly will. If you don't understand or agree with something I've said, try looking it up and reading it through on TVtropes. If nothing else, it will give you something other to do than antagonise PEELers.

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"Hell Is Other Robots" Leela has Nibbler track Bender to the abandoned amusement park in New New Jersey where Robot Hell is located, but Nibbler isn't with Fry, Leela, and Bender when they escape -- presumably he was left there at the end of the episode, and supposedly didn't return until "I Second That Emotion" in Season 2. At the time, the audience didn't know that Nibbler was intelligent, so there was no explanation for how he got back.

Nibbler didn't go down into Robot Hell with Fry and Leela. Nibbler stayed on the surface, and due to NNY and NNJ being in reasonable proximity to one another, it's a not-unreasonable assumption that he was waiting for Fry and Leela by the time they got home. It's a rather small detail, Nibbler not being a main character at the time. The episode itself is one of the best that Futurama have produced, and can be forgiven overall. The Cryonic Woman, on the other hand, is an example of compound failure. By the time we get to the ending, there's been a rather large amount of suck compared to funny or awesome (largely the fault of Michelle, but Pauly Shore must share some of the blame). It's a lot harder to forgive even minor fails by this point, and dropping your main character out of a spaceship is rather more than a minor detail.

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"When Aliens Attack" Fry's words of TV wisdom are that at the end of the show everything is back to normal; juxtaposed by the ironic background shot of New New York left devastated by the Omicronians' invasion.
This is what's called a "sight gag" or visual joke. Basically, everything is back to normal for the main characters. They're still alive, still employed at Planet Express, and can still be reasonably expected to turn up for work tomorrow. However, the city around them is in ruins... as happens on a fairly regular basis in NNY. Fry's casually selfish attitude coupled with the irony of his statement is what drives the humour here. It's an effective joke, and doesn't stamp all over continuity with hobnailed boots, given that aliens invade Earth every so often, that much of the future seems to have the capacity to sustain a great deal of damage and be repaired in short order, and finally, it's funny. It's a brilliantly set up and crafted joke, and works well as an ending to a very good episode. That's the difference between When Aliens Attack, and The Cryonic Woman. If you don't recognise this, I have to wonder how the hell you "get" a single joke in something as clever and complex as the first season of Futurama.

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"Why Must I Be a Crustacean in Love?" Dr. Zoidberg is still angry at Fry, so re-attaches Fry's arm wrong, and then Fry screams that Zoidberg cut off both his legs. Then Zoidberg cuts off something else that makes a loud splat, which everyone generally agrees was his head. At the time, it wasn't revealed that decapitations are non-fatal in the Futurama universe, so the implication was that Zoidberg killed Fry.

Dr. Zoidberg is no longer angry with Fry by that point, and in fact has repaired Fry's body as a favour to make up for mutilating him in the first place. He is, however, a comedically bad doctor. He's grafted Fry's arm to the wrong side of his body, and agrees to "take one more whack at this". Unfortunately, due to being a pretty crappy doctor (often confused by human anatomy, except when the plot demands competence), he takes off Fry's legs. Seconds later, his next attempt to remove the arm results in Fry's decapitation. We know that human heads can be kept alive. We've known this, in fact, since the pilot episode. There's an entire museum of heads. Living heads. With no bodies. Doctor Zoidberg now has to re-attach all Fry's limbs, plus his head - when originally, all he had to do was put the arm back on. This is funny. It's a little bit of a stretch, but the joke works.

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"Put Your Head on My Shoulder" The robot mechanic warns Bender that his ass will explode and could harm others. Fry involuntarily kicks Bender in the ass, causing it to explode in close proximity to Fry and Leela.

Notice how nobody is shown to be harmed by this, save for Bender - his bottom explodes, everybody else is fine. Bender, being a robot is pretty much indestructible. He's been shown to survive all kinds of damage, and can even be given new parts when one is damaged. I'll admit, it was a weak ending. But the episode itself is a decent one, and therefore a weaksauce ending is somewhat easier to forgive.

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"A Clone of My Own" The PlanEx crew rescues the Professor from the Near-Death Star, and the Sunset Squad robots never bother to try to recapture the Professor again -- even though it's their job, and they were adamant that no one escapes.

We don't know what their policy is. Whether it's recapture or cover-up, for a start. Don't forget that the Sunset Squad robots seem to operate independantly of things like birth certificates and paperwork - the Professor says he's been lying about his age... and that's he's contacted the Sunset Squad to let them know. They would appear to operate on some sort of honour system. Once you turn 160, you've to let them know, or they won't come and collect you. It may even be that Professor Farnsworth is assumed dead by the Sunset Squad robots. After all, he did leave in some kind of a coma. The Near Death Star is a joke based on retirement homes for the elderly... these things are not mandatory. It's presumably marketed as some sort of good thing, to encourage old people to sign up for it and be tucked out of sight of the rest of the universe, whilst they wait to quietly expire over the next couple of decades - just like a real retirement home. Other episodes dealing with the Professor's age also don't have people trying to turn him over to the Sunset Squad.

In addition, the whole Near Desth Star journey and subsequent escape is a way for the Professor and Cubert to finally bond. They do so, and suddenly the Professor doesn't have a reason to go back to the Sunset Squad or the Near Death Star. He's finally got a son that he can be proud of, and wants to stick around for that reason. If they accepted him lying about his age before (and those robots do seem chronically stupid), there's no reason he can't lie to them again, if they turn up to try collecting him again.

You're grasping at straws with this one, IMO.

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"War is the H-Word" President Nixon's Head and Zapp Brannigan plant a bomb inside Bender's body that will blow up an entire planet. At the end of the episode, Bender triggers the bomb, it explodes, supposedly killing the Planet Express crew and destroying the Earth -- but a second later Bender says, "I'm all right."

This is another weak ending gag (and if you listen to the commentaries you'll note that they added the explosion and the "I'm all right" at the last minute), spliced onto an otherwise decent episode. When Bender triggers the bomb, it clearly doesn't kill him, nevermind the Planet Express crew. I think it's safe to assume that the Earth wasn't destroyed either. It's just an explosion - and we know that Bender can survive quite a bit of that sort of thing. As it wasn't some sort of planet-destroying explosion, it does raise questions about the effectiveness of the bomb, and the entire plan it was intended for. But it's not a massive issue, really. It's just a weak ending joke, and as it comes hard on the heels of a very good episode, I find it much easier to forgive than, for example, dropping the main character out of a spaceship.

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"A Tale of Two Santas" Robot Santa throws Bender out of his flying sleigh and he falls to the ground (almost exactly like Fry in TCW).

Bender is a robot. Practically indestructible. Fry is a meatbag, and vulnerable to physical injury. Bender survives because he is a mighty robot, and not susceptible to the sorts of damage that Fry, Leela, and the other meatbags on the show are. Robot. Robot, robot, robot. Tough. Metal. Impact resistant. 40% Titanium. Inorganic. Are you getting this? He's a robot.

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"Crimes of the Hot" The robots "solve" global warming by pushing the Earth further away from the Sun, making the year one week longer. On the DVD commentary, David X Cohen acknowledges that the Earth would be on an elliptical orbit and at certain times of the year it would actually be hotter than before.

Doesn't appear to be an issue within the Futuramaverse though. Again, the difference between playing crappy science for laughs and failing to acheive those is important. In Crimes Of The Hot, we have a good episode, and a resolution that fulfills the trope of playing crappy science for laughs. It works in-universe, and this is why it's rarely questioned. There are science fails throughout Futurama. When they're intentionally bad, ridiculous, or just incredibly illogical, it works as long as they play it for laughs. Compare this with Bender duplicates making alcohol at a molecular level in Benderama.

There's no real "funny" there. The bad science is immediately obvious, and the jokes with the crew being drunk don't come until just a little too late to stop you thinking it through. It's a case of Fridge Logic Failure. Futurama pretty much runs on Fridge Logic. If the episode can stop me thinking "hang on, that wouldn't work" until the credits have rolled, it's done a good job. If I start to think that before the credits roll, they've failed to invoke Fridge Logic, and so have done a bad job.

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"Teenage Mutant Leela's Hurdles" The Professor is made even older than 160 years-old by the Fountain of Aging.

He started old. He finished old... even got an extra year. Status quo restored, plus a rule-of-funny bonus. It works.

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"Obsoletely Fabulous" After Bender wakes up from the "dream" wherein he learned to be compatible with Robot One-X, Bender walks off into a fantasy world.

Not only a joke, but a direct reference to a science-fiction classic. Perhaps that really is how Bender perceives the world now. We might never know. Either way, the episode ran on rule-of-funny, and the ending was more of a nerd bonus than a failure.

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"The Farnsworth Parabox" The episode ends with the Universe A somehow contained inside the Professor's mysterious box, which is simultaneously within said universe, which is contained within said box, ad infinitum.

Brilliant sci-fi/philosophical joke. Not sure what your point is.

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"That Darn Katz" The Earth's rotation is changed to west-east.

There's no appreciable difference though. It's one of the many "everything has changed but it's all still the same" moments within Futurama. It's a weak episode overall, for me. I don't like much of it. But the ending is in keeping with Fry's Rule of TV. Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss.

Sorry if I keep talking in sentence fragments and cliches, but the thing is, you're just stating episode endings by this point, rather than pointing out any specific problems with them.

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"The Mutants Are Revolting" Mutants are granted their freedom and can live on the surface of New New York with everyone else (but I've yet to see any of the mutants on the surface since that episode).

Have we had any mutant-oriented episodes since? I agree that it would've been nice to see them in the background of crowd shots (such as on Parade Day) from time to time, but the writers appear to be playing faster and looser with continuity than previously for the new episodes anyway. This doesn't magically excuse The Cryonic Woman for having such a bad ending. It's not like we've seen the mutants still living in squalor and complaining about their lack of surface rights since, either. Could be they all come up to the surface now, and we just don't see it because it's not relevant to the plot of any of the episodes that've happened since.

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"Benderama" Bender duplicates himself again to fold the Professor's shirts, revealing that there's a second grey-goo cloud of mini-Benders, which is apparently isn't dealt with.

No. He doesn't. The sweaters were either folded by "one last mini-Bender" or Bender has learned his lesson. Those are the choices we're presented with at the end of the episode. The cloud of nanoBenders at the end have either learned their lesson (being essentially copies of Bender) along with him, or are set to depart for "someplace they don't have to do one-quintillionth of a thing anymore" the moment they get called upon to do something. That or it's another joke. Personally I find the holes in the planet as the original swarm leaves to be far more egregiously annoying. It's an episode (and a resolution) I don't particularly care that much for, upon repeat viewing. Fridge Logic breaks down at a couple of points, and the episode fails on rule-of-funny too many times for me.

My point is this: The TCW-haters are unjustifiably singling out the ending of "The Cryonic Woman" for ridicule to justify their opinions that TCW is the "worst episode ever", in some kind of bizarre self-reinforcing, non-sensical, logical paradox loop, which would probably cause a robot's head to explode. laff

Firstly, I've said several times now that there are actually a couple of small parts of that episode I actually enjoy. Seondly, I've said several times now that I think it's one of the worst episodes because of the ending, and also because of Michelle and Pauly Shore. You seem to be ignoring the whole, and picking out one thing to hold up as a reason why anybody who dislikes the episode is (by some leap of logic you've yet to explain) dumb.


I believe that Fry's words of TV wisdom from "When Aliens Attack" is the reason why TCW-haters hate "The Cryonic Woman". If Fry had never referenced the TV trope that "in the end, everything is back to normal" I doubt that the TCW-haters would not have singled-out TCW.

The ironic thing is, which I find absolutely hilarious, is that Fry's words of TV wisdom were mocking TV viewers: "TV audiences don't want anything original. They wanna see the same thing they've seen a thousand times before." So the TCW-haters are dogmatically obeying the TV trope that nothing should ever change on a TV show. roll eyes

It's not that people who hate The Cryonic Woman are dogmatically obeying the trope, it's that Futurama up until that point is a direct example of how that trope works in action. Then it for no adequately explored reason decides to throw it all out of the window and drop the main character out of a spaceship. It's not funny, it's not clever, it's brutal, unexpected, and induces a feeling of dissonance that's an inappropriate note on which to end an episode. In addition, none of this is addressed in later episodes, which simply serves to illustrate how isolated and unlike the established Futuramaverse this episode and its ending are.

Finally...

I've put a lot of effort into being as civil as possible in the effort to keep this discussion focused on the episode.

I'd believe you, if you hadn't said this immediately after:

Quote
However, based on past experiences -- and despite that this post wasn't directed at him -- I presume that totalnerduk will once again resort to posting his lame "Wrong" gif, because he's utterly incapable of defending his opinions about TCW.

That's a deliberate poke at me - and adequate justification for me to simply post the .gif - which you're quite clearly making in order to bait me into a response. Now you've got the response you were looking for, you have absolutely no grounds to complain if you find it rude, condescending, offensive, or any one of the thousand things I've not made an effort not to be.

Quote
I believe that we're all entitled to our own opinions -- however, if you can't reasonably justify and defend your opinions, you can't possibly expect any one else to respect your opinions, nevermind agree with you.

To be frank, at this point I don't care. I have always justified my stance on any episode of Futurama, on PEEL and when I review an episode on CGEF. I don't expect everyone to agree with me automatically (and I've had a few disagreements on various topics here on PEEL with various members whom I still manage to get along with). I don't care whether people "respect my opinions". I just want you to stfu. You're boring.

Hey, that'd make a great new .gif to respond to you with!


SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #98 on: 07-26-2011 05:57 »

When you open your eyes, you will feel relaxed.  Fry will not have been fired by the Professor, and someone will have cunt punted Michelle into a gigantic meat shredder.  smile
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #99 on: 07-26-2011 06:01 »

Now that would have been a decent ending.
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
****
« Reply #100 on: 07-26-2011 06:45 »

I don't think this episode kills continuity. After all, I could think of ways Fry gets his job back. Episodes like "War is the H-Word" are much more annoying to think of explainations for.
If anything rapes continuity, it would be Bender's Big Score.
flesheatingbull

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #101 on: 07-26-2011 06:47 »
« Last Edit on: 07-26-2011 06:48 »

goddamn. your posts are almost unbearable to read. at least i get relief in knowing that soryn will continue to make you look foolish in the near future.

edit: obviously directed toward the acclaimed DOOP SECRETARY. a woman's job, mind you.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #102 on: 07-26-2011 06:52 »

I don't think this episode kills continuity. After all, I could think of ways Fry gets his job back. Episodes like "War is the H-Word" are much more annoying to think of explainations for.
If anything rapes continuity, it would be Bender's Big Score.
BBS actually stays within established continuity incredibly well. I can't say I care much for certain aspects of the way they treat continuity, nor for some of the extensions to previously seen scenes, but they do a very good job of preserving continuity whilst raping the timeline. A subtle, but important, distinction.

The problem with "thinking of a couple of ways that Fry can get his job back" is that there's no canon involved. Canon has a huge gap in it, and personally, I find that incredibly annoying. I like my story to be told properly, not left with holes in it. I want to know what happened... even if it's just a one-line justification somewhere. Anything that's not canon is speculation, and I'm afraid that for a nerd like me, speculation just isn't as satisfying as proper continuity.
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
****
« Reply #103 on: 07-26-2011 06:56 »

I don't think this episode kills continuity. After all, I could think of ways Fry gets his job back. Episodes like "War is the H-Word" are much more annoying to think of explainations for.
If anything rapes continuity, it would be Bender's Big Score.
BBS actually stays within established continuity incredibly well. I can't say I care much for certain aspects of the way they treat continuity, nor for some of the extensions to previously seen scenes, but they do a very good job of preserving continuity whilst raping the timeline. A subtle, but important, distinction.

The problem with "thinking of a couple of ways that Fry can get his job back" is that there's no canon involved. Canon has a huge gap in it, and personally, I find that incredibly annoying. I like my story to be told properly, not left with holes in it. I want to know what happened... even if it's just a one-line justification somewhere. Anything that's not canon is speculation, and I'm afraid that for a nerd like me, speculation just isn't as satisfying as proper continuity.
I guess I don't have any issues with it because I've seen much worse holes in other things. For example, Crysis 2 is set 4 years after the first game with no explanation as to what happened in between, leaving the plot a total mess.

Unless, Futurama does something as bad as that, I don't see any huge problems that I can't shrug off.

Also, I never hear any criticize "The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings" for never addressing how Leela regains her hearing... though I guess that's different.
Aki

Professor
*
« Reply #104 on: 07-26-2011 13:16 »

Also, I never hear any criticize "The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings" for never addressing how Leela regains her hearing... though I guess that's different.

We've seen people get their hands and heads back on. Why not new ears?
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #105 on: 07-26-2011 14:36 »

I always just assumed Leela was able to hear once Calculon's ears were removed by some dark sorcery on the Robot Devil's part. He was never interested in deafening Leela permanently; it was just part of his ridiculously circuitous plan to get his hands back.

And, again, the ending of Devil's Hands doesn't bother me because it is an infinitely superior episode to TCW.
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
****
« Reply #106 on: 07-27-2011 11:34 »

Also, I never hear any criticize "The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings" for never addressing how Leela regains her hearing... though I guess that's different.

We've seen people get their hands and heads back on. Why not new ears?
Yeah, I guess so. And it was probably just temporary like her blindness in "Bender Gets Made."
Also, since the episode ended on such a positive note, I doubt anyone on Earth cared.
LobsterMooch
Professor
*
« Reply #107 on: 07-27-2011 19:28 »
« Last Edit on: 11-10-2011 16:48 »

 flirt
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #108 on: 07-27-2011 20:14 »

Like in the Dirty Harry video and live visuals?!

(PS Gorillaz is my favourite band, I met Damon! big grin)
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #109 on: 07-28-2011 02:04 »

Big deal, I met the sister of the guy who came up with the Compare the Meerkats.com adverts.
MightyBooshFan91

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #110 on: 07-28-2011 04:32 »

Now that would have been a decent ending.
I've read all your long-ass posts and all I have to say is: someone needs to make a gif for you that's says "fucking hypocrite" over and over, like your wrong one. You complain about this one ad infinitum but let every other episode you mention off for doing the exact same thing.  no no roll eyes
DannyJC13

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #111 on: 07-28-2011 12:18 »

Big deal, I met the sister of the guy who came up with the Compare the Meerkats.com adverts.

That's stupid. Your stupid.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #112 on: 07-28-2011 13:22 »
« Last Edit on: 07-28-2011 13:45 by totalnerduk »

I've read all your long-ass posts and all I have to say is: someone needs to make a gif for you that's says "fucking hypocrite" over and over, like your wrong one. You complain about this one ad infinitum but let every other episode you mention off for doing the exact same thing.  no no roll eyes

Wrong. I've defended my viewpoint "ad infinitum" because somebody who shall remain nameless kept sniping at me via their criticisms of it (my viewpoint, not the episode).

I criticise plenty of other episodes, and none of the episodes (that weren't brought up by me) to which I responded to criticisms of were guilty of the same thing as The Cryonic Woman.

Hopefully this post wasn't too long.

By the way, I don't have a "long" ass, and if I did, I certainly would not use it to make posts on PEEL.

If you really want a flashing .gif file to call me a hypocrite with, go ahead and use this one:

Click to view

Of course, you'll find that I'm rarely quilty of hypocrisy and usually more than capable of explaining why the .gif file should not be posted in most instances. I'll tell you what though, when I'm guilty of hypocrisy, I'll let you know so you can use it.
winna

Avatar Czar
DOOP Ubersecretary
**
« Reply #113 on: 07-28-2011 13:44 »

This episode is indefensible.  It has Pauly Shore as a guest star, and that proves beyond a measurable doubt that this episode is horrible.
LobsterMooch
Professor
*
« Reply #114 on: 07-28-2011 16:13 »
« Last Edit on: 11-10-2011 16:48 »

 wink
SpaceMaN

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #115 on: 07-28-2011 18:10 »

tnuk's refusal to accept "ass" as an adjective (definition 2 under adjective as adjective) is long-standing and funny.  Disregard.
futurefreak

salutatory committee member
Moderator
DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #116 on: 07-28-2011 20:34 »

Ok, you're disregarded. Huzzah!
SolidSnake

Professor
*
« Reply #117 on: 08-25-2013 19:07 »

Meh episode. It felt kind of like an episode of The Simpsons.

While it did start out great in the first act. The next two are just boring.

6/10 The worst of Season 2, and maybe the worst of the Original Run.
UnrealLegend

Space Pope
****
« Reply #118 on: 08-26-2013 03:11 »

I feel like this episode receives much more hate than it deserves. The first two acts are really solid, and I particularly enjoy seeing Fry and Bender work at the cryogenics lab.
Anna3000

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #119 on: 08-26-2013 05:50 »

I have basically the opinion about it as UrL. I loved Fry and Bender working together at the lab, especially Bender trying to terrify the new de-frostees. I really enjoyed how Michelle explained her life after Fry went missing, too. It just completely falls off the rails in the third act in my opinion, so I suppose that causes many viewers to leave the episode with an overall negative impression.

Also, reading the posts earlier in this thread made me miss tnuk's presence here.  frown

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