The Futurama "Random Order" Test

[on:]

For a brief summary of how this came to this point, refer to these quoted posts from the Ghost in the Machines review thread:

And I think people have a serious nostalgia goggles problem, but it's also possible that some never really were Futurama fans. It's all open to interpretation of the person rather than the group.

What's needed to test it without the goggles is a screening of seven random S1-4 episodes to 10 people who've never seen Futurama, plus 3 random S5-7 episodes. If more than half of the people who see the ten episodes can correctly identify the 5-7 episodes based purely on which they feel are not part of the "original" set, then the people who are complaining specifically about new episodes may have a point.

I wish I had a pool of volunteers for crazy experiments. I'd love to actually perform this one (partially because it involves watching lots of Futurama).

I've contemplated using a sort of lottery system to determine which episode of Futurama I will watch at any given point. It would be totally unscientific and low-tech (I would literally just write the name of every episode on strips of paper, toss them into a hat, and then pull them out at random to compose my viewing list), but it has the potential to be a useful way of testing how susceptible I am to the dreaded nostalgia filter.  

And that sounds like an excellent idea for an experiment, TNUK. You'd have to show the episodes either all in 4:3 or all in widescreen. And Gorky, why not just use a random number generator from online, using choices from 1-85 (excludes new episodes, as I don't know if you have "acquired" them, and the movies, as I'm unsure you'd want to watch one act of a certain movie at "any given point")? That way you don't have to write down 85 episode titles on 85 strips of paper! Or 85 episode abbreviations and then having to do the guesswork to remember what the abbreviations TH, G, TS, and R mean.

Despite my distrust for random number generators (blame "A Tale of Two Santas" for that one), I took your advice, Weiner. I included every episode, up to and including "Ghost in the Machines," and the results were, well, certainly random.

It occurs to me that it might be kind of cool and/or useful if any interested PEELers with loads of free time on their hands* chose to work their way through the series using a predetermined, randomly-generated list to dictate what episodes they watch, and when they watch them. This would not necessarily be as accurate as tnuk's test, but it would be neat if any interested PEELers (particularly those who, like me, can admit to suffering from some sort of nostalgia problem) participated and compared notes amongst themselves.

*That's redundant.

From that is where the basic idea for this test comes: are our nostalgia goggles and the order in which we view the episodes causing us to rate the new episodes fairly compared to the old ones?

After this season has finished (September) the project will begin. We will all watch every episode in a certain order with a certain number of episodes watched per week (we'll figure out that part in the thread). The movies would count as one episode since they are one story each. The order will be pre-determined here in the thread as to be "random" so that all episodes are mixed around so they can best be compared to everything else with the least amount of bias and nostalgia gogglitude as possible. Something to determine is whether we want the order to be randomized with a number generator and what comes up is what the order will be, or have a modified system which I'll explain now:

The modified system would make it so then no episode from the same production season is viewed back-to-back. The generator would choose an episode, then for the next episode chosen all episodes from that production season would be disregarded. I believe this should work in practice since no production season holds a majority of all episodes.

So what are your thoughts on this idea?


Also, we can change the name of the project if needed. As in, we can change it to something punny if needed.

[Reply #1 on:]

Yay, I'm helping!

I would obviously be so game for this experiment. Of course, my ability to participate will depend a lot on my class schedule (in general, I watch a lot less Futurama--and subsequently post a lot less on PEEL--during the school year), but if we only are expected to watch a few episodes a week, I can definitely swing it. I'm glad we won't be starting until September, though, since it's only fair to let the remainder of season six play out before we begin.

As far as the number generator vs. modified system goes: I say we go with the number generator. There is nothing inherently wrong, or harmful to the intent of the experiment, in watching two episodes from the same season back-to-back (even if we were to watch, say, 2ACV03 and 2ACV04 one right after the other). In terms of the general consensus of an episode's quality, there's no difference between watching "Roswell that Ends Well" and The Holiday Spectacular back to back, or watching "Times Keeps on Slipping" and "I Dated a Robot." Or at least that's how I see it.

[Reply #2 on:]

Re: Order generation. Give me a few minutes and I'll come up with a pseudorandom order together with an explanation of how I arrived at it.

[Reply #3 on:]

Interesting. I'll participate (unless dead or in witness protection).  It would be interesting to see how things are re rated. Should the current ratings be hidden during this? So some folks who don't want to be "off" on what they originally thought of a episode won't go back and look? Or does it matter?

[Reply #4 on:]

I don't think it necessarily matters if the participants take a peek at their original ratings for the episodes, if only because being "off" on your first impression isn't necessarily a bad thing (if, for example, I find something of value in "Where the Buggalo Roam" this time around, it's sort of irrelevant that I once found it craptastic; it only matters that my opinion has somehow been altered, not in which direction it's been altered).

I wonder if we should have certain criteria by which to judge the episodes. I'm thinking we could compile a list of the most common complaints fans have had about season six (too many pop culture references, the supporting characters getting too much screen-time, stuff like that) and view all of the episodes with these particular complaints in mind. That might be over-thinking things, though.

[Reply #5 on:]

It's an interesting idea...

But what would be the point in performing this test on ourselves? Everyone here has presumably seen most (if not all) of the episodes of Futurama, new and old. I don't care how random the viewing order is, I'm not going to forget which season any of the episodes are from, and I doubt many other fans here will either.

If the test is supposed to truly test "nostalgia goggles" it would need to be conducted on test subjects who have never seen Futurama, and therefore have not been "tainted" by nostalgia. That means that none of us would be viable guinea pigs.

And good luck finding willing test subjects that any of us know who have never seen Futurama.

[Reply #6 on:]

I'd say we're actually testing something similar to what Svip describes in this post (also from the "Ghost in the Machines" review thread):

Could it not be that some of us simply do not enjoy Futurama after the years it was gone?  Is that not possible?  Maybe it is us who has changed and forgotten or seen pass the flaws the original Futurama had.

He's still talking about Nostalgia Goggles, but a kind specific to people who claim to love Futurama yet still find themselves underwhelmed by the new episodes. A lot of people seem to put the original run on a pedestal, forgetting that there were some clunkers in the first four seasons; on the other side of things, there are some people who seem too willing to overlook the flaws apparent in the movies and season six. Seems to me like a systematic rewatch (even if the episodes themselves are in a random order) is a great way to figure out how we really feel about this show.

[Reply #7 on:]

I think I may be in the same boat as Gorky. I've been recently watching some old Futurama episodes that I love (or claim to), and the amount of literal lols and tears of laughter seemed pretty much on par with several Season 6 episodes. The main difference, it seems, is that when I later reflect on certain jokes/lines from my old favorites, I bust out in laughter and remember why I love them so much. When I do the same for the Season 6 episodes, no such luck. That tells me I do suffer from some sort of nostalgic bias, though I'm not sure to what extent.

[Reply #8 on:]

Episode Order, randomised. The link takes you to the download page for an Excel spreadsheet.

I took the episode list in production order, then next to it I put numbers in at random from 1-91. Scrolling up and down, popping numbers in here and there. No order.

Then I sorted the episode list alphabetically, leaving the random numbers alone. Finally, I sorted the alphabetised list by the random order numbers, generating a pseudorandom order in which to watch the episodes.

You're all welcome.

Edit: I suggest the title of this become "The Universal Random Futurama Project", or TURF Project for short.

[Reply #9 on:]

Out of curiosity, what's the point of assigning the random numbers before alphabetic sorting? Is it just another attempt at adding "randomness" to the list besides the main assignment of numbers?

[Reply #10 on:]

If I simply alphabetised them, it would have an order to it. Not production order, true. But still an order. The jumble of numbers added another layer to the movement of the episodes up or down the list, making it slightly more random. Of course, it was not truly randomised, hence my use of the term "pseudorandom".

[Reply #11 on:]

Yeah, sorry for not being more clear. I felt like the random number assignment was the main crux of the random generation, and the alphabetic sorting was an additional layer. Just checking.

[Reply #12 on:]

This is a really interesting idea and I know I'll participate if I have time. I think I might be able to help you out even more because I only became a Futurama nerd in August 2010. Since then, I've seen every episode/movie at least twice, but I don't have super thick nostalgia goggles (they are more like nostalgia contact lenses).

Also, maybe I'll beat up some kid who's never seen the show, lock them in my room, and force them to watch twenty random episodes and analyze them. Kidding, but that would be fun, sort of, I think.

[Reply #13 on:]

This is a really interesting idea and I know I'll participate if I have time. I think I might be able to help you out even more because I only became a Futurama nerd in August 2010. Since then, I've seen every episode/movie at least twice, but I don't have super thick nostalgia goggles (they are more like nostalgia contact lenses).

Excellent, test subject number one accquired.

[Reply #14 on:]

Excellent, test subject number one accquired.

Hooray, I'm helping!

[Reply #15 on:]

I suggest the title of this become "The Universal Random Futurama Project", or TURF Project for short.

As it is now, it's the FRO Test, which I approve of.  

Yours is good too.

[Reply #16 on:]

You got my participation, weiner! It's like a movie club but with Futurama! I will be interested to see the discussions on here after the viewings.

How do you propose we view them, anyhow? I mean, in what time frame? Do we watch one at a time and then comment, or do the first 3 or 5 continuing in this manner using groups, and then comment?

[Reply #17 on:]

uhh yeah, great idea but nostalgia goggles don't exist and I'm confused as to why you lot think they do. It's not like I haven't seen a pre-cancellation episode for 8 years or whatever and just think I remember them being good. I watched them all in the run up to the new episodes and I found them all funnier than the three episodes so far this year and most of the episodes last summer as well.

Next you'll be saying that I could watch a season 20 simpsons episode next to a season 5 one and not see a difference in quality. "because I feel nostalgic"

Also would someone please explain the hate for "Cyronic Woman", "Where the Buggalo Roam" and "That's Lobstertainment"? I'd take these three over shit like "That Darn Katz" or "Propostion Infinity" anyday.

[Reply #18 on:]

Your post is the definition of exactly what we're testing.

You got my participation, weiner! It's like a movie club but with Futurama! I will be interested to see the discussions on here after the viewings.

How do you propose we view them, anyhow? I mean, in what time frame? Do we watch one at a time and then comment, or do the first 3 or 5 continuing in this manner using groups, and then comment?

There are a few options, and in all scenarios this would start after Sept 8 (when last of this season should air), so let's say Sept 11 just to have a nice round day. With that, the test should conclude before late June when new episodes air which gives us about 208 days (about 30 weeks). All calculations include Sept 11 and its week.

• One weekly. This would mean we'd go straight through for 102 weeks ending Aug 18, 2013. Which is after every one of Production Season 7 airs... Lawl no... Let's try that again...
• Two weekly still puts us in the middle of PS7, so let's try more weekly. Thee weekly means going straight through for 34 weeks ending April 29, 2012. Four weekly ends after 26 weeks on March 4, 2012. Five ends after 21 weeks on January 29, 2012. Six ends after 17 weeks on January 1, 2012.
• Finally, the nuclear option: one daily. This would mean we'd go straight through for 102 days ending Dec 21.

I personally like three a week because it's a happy medium. It's watching an episode every other day with a day of rest and Futurama repentance on the seventh day. If we go any fewer, we'll end up in next season, but if we do more, then we might end up in a scenario where we have three episodes and one of the movies to watch in a week, or even all the movies in one week plus an episode. ... Or other horrible combinations. In this scenario, the rest day at the end of the week should allow people to "catch up" well enough. Watching an episode "every other day" would be the guideline but it wouldn't have to be strictly followed; you could pop the DVDs in and rip through the three episodes in just over an hour on Saturday.

This thread would be the "home" thread for the project, but reviews and discussion of the episodes would be expected to take place in the individual episodes' review threads. I mean, they're all still open, why not use them for something?! And this would allow people to go see their first review of the episodes and how they rated it back then more easily and readily, all of which, of course, after they posted their new review. This thread would be the thread where people are reminded of which episodes are on the docket for the week and for general comments on the FRO project.

On that note, we would also have a gentlemen's agreement to stay with watching and reviewing those three episodes during that week and trying to only pump the discussions for those episodes that week. Just imagine the possible chaos that would engulf GD if somewhere around 14 episode review threads were active at the same time, flamewars heated discussions jumping from thread to thread like some sort of fire battle... The "test" would work best when all "subjects" are only exposed to the randomly selected episodes alone during that week. You might of course finding yourself with the captain's itch to finish the DVDs the episodes appear on, but please try to limit discussion to the episodes that have been viewed in FRO up to that point.

... That last paragraph made sense, right? ... Good.


And yes, I'm leaning towards "FRO Project" right now because it sounds cool. If anybody could figure a backronym for Fry, Futurama, or (my personal favorite if we could make it happen) Scruffy, perhaps we could use those.

Edit: Hm... S.C.R.U.F.F.Y.... Special (or Systematic) Community Rewatch Unveiling Futurama Favoritism  Y-something... It's got some potential pizzazz.

[Reply #19 on:]

I think three a week sounds very reasonable. A day to watch and a day to review for each episode, with the rest day. Or one day watching all three. Whatever. Watching three episodes in one day is nothing. One a day, however, would be mass chaos, what with all the discussing of them going on.

S.C.R.U.F.F.Y.: Systematic Community Rewatch Unveiling Futurama Favoritism. Yup.

[Reply #20 on:]

^Spira wins the name game.

And I agree that watching three episodes a week provides us with a totally reasonable pace. It would also potentially be helpful if, once we've finalized the viewing schedule, we had a sort of master list of all the review threads, so that the first person to review that week's episode(s) doesn't have to go digging around PEEL (yes, I'm aware we have a search function, but still), but can rather come to this thread and click on a handy link that will take them right to the appropriate review thread. This could just be my own crippling laziness talking, though.

[Reply #21 on:]

I'm still trying to figure if the "UFF" part, I think it could still use refinement right there.

And I'll compile all the threads and put links in the first post once a viewing schedule is finalized.

[Reply #22 on:]

I'm in. Whatever it is, anyway...

[Reply #23 on:]

Three a week is a good call. This thread should be used to discuss the flow of the three episodes from one to another and comparing them similarities/differences. I agree individual episode discussions should take place in their own threads, but if you do not discuss the episodes as a group in this thread what does this thread accomplish?

[Reply #24 on:]

I'm up for it, ok what did I sign up for?...

*reads thread*

Ah yes, I agree that three a week is a good idea. I'll remember the start date because it's the 10 year anniversary of the Twin Tower attacks...

[Reply #25 on:]

Well now I'm gonna remember it that way! Thanks a lot, Otis...

Three a week is a good call. This thread should be used to discuss the flow of the three episodes from one to another and comparing them similarities/differences. I agree individual episode discussions should take place in their own threads, but if you do not discuss the episodes as a group in this thread what does this thread accomplish?

I kinda already answered that question in that big block post a couple before yours, but I'll give you a more robust answer if you want. This thread will act as the hub for the project, in which PEELer will be reminded which episodes are on the docket for the week and where general comments and discussion of the project – which includes interepisode opinions, opinions on how you think the project is going, and other things which are more pertinent to the over-arching project rather than the individual episodes – will take place.

[Reply #26 on:]

This sounds like an interesting project. I'm definitely on, and I think three a week is perfect. Now I have something to do between Reincarnation and 7ACV01!

About the date. September 11, 2011. A lot of Americans will have this day as a mourning day for the ten years since 9/11. Maybe I'm taking it to hard, but isn't there quite a risk that some people on this forum actually lost someone and don't feel that it is the perfect date for starting something like this? Again, maybe I'm exaggerating the day's effect, and to me it doesn't really matter.

[Reply #27 on:]

I kind of feel like there are going to be a lot of other things that I'm going to want to watch on 9/11, like whatever various news stations are doing for the tenth anniversary. It is kind of a big deal. But I don't really have anything against starting then as long as I'm not expected to watch the first episode them.

[Reply #28 on:]

Then again, I don't think it makes a difference if anyone who has other plans for the 11th watches it on the 12th.

By the way, for those not wanting to download tnuk's spreadsheet for whatever, I'm putting this up here - the first three episodes, for the first viewing week.

1. "A Bicyclops Built for Two" (2ACV09): September 11 - September 17
2. "A Big Piece of Garbage" (1ACV08): September 11 - September 17
3. "Bender Gets Made" (2ACV13): September 11 - September 17

[Reply #29 on:]

We are expected to watch them in that specific order, correct?

[Reply #30 on:]

That's my assumption. Something like two days per episode and then another day in case someone has been busy and need to catch up before the next week starts. Yup.

[Reply #31 on:]

Neither the start date nor watching schedule have been set in stone yet. September 11th was selected arbitrarily because it is the first Sunday after Reincarnation airs. It can be moved if people would rather a different starting date. Also, TNUK's proposed pseudo-random schedule does not include the rest of Season 6B, so we'll have to figure it out still.

[Reply #32 on:]

I'd say we're actually testing something similar to what Svip describes in this post (also from the "Ghost in the Machines" review thread):

Could it not be that some of us simply do not enjoy Futurama after the years it was gone?  Is that not possible?  Maybe it is us who has changed and forgotten or seen pass the flaws the original Futurama had.

He's still talking about Nostalgia Goggles, but a kind specific to people who claim to love Futurama yet still find themselves underwhelmed by the new episodes. A lot of people seem to put the original run on a pedestal, forgetting that there were some clunkers in the first four seasons; on the other side of things, there are some people who seem too willing to overlook the flaws apparent in the movies and season six. Seems to me like a systematic rewatch (even if the episodes themselves are in a random order) is a great way to figure out how we really feel about this show.

I think there is a clear difference between the style and humor of the new episodes as compared to the original run, and when I rate the new episodes I rate them compared to everything from the movies onward...if I were to rate them as compared to episodes from the original run, I would rate them much lower.

But I have a feeling this test wouldn't work on me at all. I didn't watch any of the original 4 seasons until after they had all originally aired. I watched all 4 DVD sets in the year or so before Bender's Big Score came out, and have rewatched all of them since then.

Because of this I have no nostalgia goggles, no false memory...so that's why I simply assume that my assessment of the situation is correct.

[Reply #33 on:]

Well, I love Futurama more than any other show in the world, so I'd like to test this out too.

[Reply #34 on:]

But I have a feeling this test wouldn't work on me at all. I didn't watch any of the original 4 seasons until after they had all originally aired. I watched all 4 DVD sets in the year or so before Bender's Big Score came out, and have rewatched all of them since then.

Because of this I have no nostalgia goggles, no false memory...so that's why I simply assume that my assessment of the situation is correct.

I didn't start watching anything until after The Mutants are Revolting aired. I did, however, watch everything in pretty much chronological order - straight through the first two seasons, then skipping around seasons 3-5 until I was done with those, and then through season six, and then the movies. And then back through everything at least once more again in a totally random order, and back through certain episodes about twenty times (pretty sure I have The Sting basically memorized).

Anyways, the point is, I also notice some differences between the two sets of episodes, but does that make one better than the other? I'm really interested to see how much my opinion of each episode, especially the season 6 ones, compares to the general consensus among people who were watching the show back when I was in third grade. Also, I bet my opinions of certain episodes will change when I watch them in whatever order is finally posted, which will be fun. I don't think there's anyone who the test "doesn't work" on. It's science. It never fails to work, it just works in ways that contradict the original hypothesis. Yup.

[Reply #35 on:]

I can count on one hand the number of episodes I watched when they originally aired on Fox (the only one I have a clear memory of watching in real-time, as a matter of fact, is Devil's Hands); by September of 2004, I had seen the entire series. So, in the three-year interim until "Bender's Big Score" was released, I had plenty of time to rewatch the original 72 episodes and build them up in my head as something wonderful and beautiful and tragically-cut-down-in-their-prime. In other words, I'm almost positive I've got Nostalgia Goggles.

And hell, even if you don't suspect yourself of having any nostalgia-related bias, this experiment could be useful. Anything that allows you to watch plenty of Futurama can't be a bad thing.

[Reply #36 on:]

I'm not stupid... so yes absolutely, I'll do it.

*sign*

what do I have agree to ?

[Reply #37 on:]

I think there is a clear difference between the style and humor of the new episodes as compared to the original run, and when I rate the new episodes I rate them compared to everything from the movies onward...if I were to rate them as compared to episodes from the original run, I would rate them much lower.

But I have a feeling this test wouldn't work on me at all. I didn't watch any of the original 4 seasons until after they had all originally aired. I watched all 4 DVD sets in the year or so before Bender's Big Score came out, and have rewatched all of them since then.

Because of this I have no nostalgia goggles, no false memory...so that's why I simply assume that my assessment of the situation is correct.

Exactly my thoughts...it's not nostalgia goggles if I still laughed at them a few days ago, it's because they were funny

[Reply #38 on:]

Neither the start date nor watching schedule have been set in stone yet. September 11th was selected arbitrarily because it is the first Sunday after Reincarnation airs. It can be moved if people would rather a different starting date. Also, TNUK's proposed pseudo-random schedule does not include the rest of Season 6B, so we'll have to figure it out still.

I can very easily add them in and randomise the list again, once they've aired. If you want me to. Or somebody else can come up with a schedule - I'm just offering to do it because I've already got the data input into a spreadsheet and can easily manipulate it. Anybody else is going to find doing that from scratch pretty tedious.

[Reply #39 on:]

I entrust tnuk to come up with a random list, but I'm notoriously a pretty foolish person.

Sort-of-but-not-really-on-topic: Comedy Central has chosen to air "War is the H-Word" tonight, immediately followed by a repeat of "Ghost in the Machines." The feeling I get watching those two episodes--the first of which I love; and the second of which I, uh, don't--back-to-back is sort of a microcosmic example of what I hope to achieve with this randomized rewatch.