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Author Topic: The old "Everything is worse now" discussion - General Futurama Discussion. SPOILER ALERT  (Read 23624 times)
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SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
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« Reply #480 on: 08-25-2011 16:40 »

You've clearly been putting a lot of thought into this, I like the ideas, but I would still be very worried about the prospect of London in Futurama due to the stereotypical jokes which would likely result. It?s almost asking for it to happen with the tea thing, it would be a very thin line, very shifty...

Well if I ever DO get to write my Neo London episode, I would slip in a few British stereotype jokes (I have to admit I loved Dinkin Crumpets and the Big Book of British Smiles), but I think it would be a great chance to mock stereotypes about the British.  Like someone mentioning tea, which Americans seem to believe the British have instead of blood, only for it to be mentioned that tea has been made illegal for six centuries.   We could have a tea speakeasy which would have more in common with 1920s prohibition, but that would probably be stretching the joke too far.

I do like making fun of the stupid stereotypes Americans have about us.
Bender: Hello duckie!
British woman: Will you please stop saying that?  No one says duckie here.  Ever.
Fry: But..
*is pecked by the British woman's pet duck on a leash*
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #481 on: 08-25-2011 19:55 »

Big Book Of British Smiles makes me cringe... As for tea, I'm English and I don't even drink tea. In fact the last time I had it was on the plane when there was nothing else going. Those are the only times I drink it, basically when I'm not even in England, or even in any country for that matter hmpf...

If we must have a London ep then I hope The Millennium Dome has had a major overhaul. Also would hope that London is full of transport tubes much like NNY. Things in general need to be futuristic. Flying buses, yes they're good. I want it to be just as advanced as NNY, if it was portrayed as less advanced then the ep would rub me the wrong way...
flesheatingbull

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #482 on: 08-25-2011 20:54 »

the most futurama-ish episode of the past two seasons was 'fry am the eggman'. also, they showed san francisco plenty.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #483 on: 08-25-2011 21:10 »
« Last Edit on: 08-25-2011 21:20 »

I want flying Routemasters and Black Cabs.  
Maybe the Underground could have a Maglev style system?   I would also love to see some futuristic plays on some of the stations (maybe Seven Sisters could actually have a star map of the Pleiades in it?)
Gammaden Town 
London Amidala  (instead of Victoria)
Orion Circus
Notting Hill Stargate
Rancor and Castle (Elephant and Castle)
Hyperoval

This is harder then I thought.  How do Futurama people make the puns look so easy! frown

Myself, I love tea, and making a good cup of tea is the only social skill I actually have.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #484 on: 08-25-2011 21:14 »

You lie, you also have good social Futurama messageboard skills, whatever that is...

the most futurama-ish episode of the past two seasons was 'fry am the eggman'.

Agreed on the first two acts, the last not so much...
Bend-err

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #485 on: 08-25-2011 21:24 »

Just rewatched the first 4 episodes again and I have to say, yes it was different.
Was it better? Well some things sure, but some were also worse.
Some voices changed quite a bit, some for better some for worse.
And the animation and character design definitely change for the better.
futurefreak

salutatory committee member
Moderator
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« Reply #486 on: 08-25-2011 21:44 »

I thought Law and Oracle was pretty Futurama-y too , especially the opening sequence...
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #487 on: 08-25-2011 21:48 »

Indeed it was, perhaps the second most Futurama-y ep of Season 6 (so far)!...
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #488 on: 08-25-2011 21:57 »

I was disappointed by the lack of Law and Order references.  Not a single DUHN DUHN
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #489 on: 08-25-2011 22:11 »

Never seen Law and Order so they'd have just gone over my head anyways like Fry, like Fry!...
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #490 on: 08-25-2011 22:19 »

Never seen Law and Order so they'd have just gone over my head anyways like Fry, like Fry!...

I always knew you learned to talk as a parlor trick.
EvilChicken

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #491 on: 08-25-2011 23:28 »

I want flying Routemasters and Black Cabs. 
Maybe the Underground could have a Maglev style system?   I would also love to see some futuristic plays on some of the stations (maybe Seven Sisters could actually have a star map of the Pleiades in it?)
Gammaden Town 
London Amidala  (instead of Victoria)
Orion Circus
Notting Hill Stargate
Rancor and Castle (Elephant and Castle)
Hyperoval

This is harder then I thought.  How do Futurama people make the puns look so easy! frown

Myself, I love tea, and making a good cup of tea is the only social skill I actually have.

To add to the list, I'd like to see:
The Great British weather
A futuristic twist on the London Eye
Hover Black Cabs
Suicide Booths being the red telephone boxes
Something to do with futuristic football
British Streets
Hover Mini Coopers

futurefreak

salutatory committee member
Moderator
DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #492 on: 08-25-2011 23:41 »

Never seen Law and Order so they'd have just gone over my head anyways like Fry, like Fry!...
Oh come now, I'm sure by now they have referenced it on Simpsons... wink
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #493 on: 08-26-2011 00:01 »

I thought Law and Oracle was pretty Futurama-y too , especially the opening sequence...

"Benderama" was plenty Futurama-y, I thought. Not brilliant, per se, but it was certainly geeky and quite hilarious. Also, "Mobius Dick." But yeah, in addition to  those two episodes and "Fry Am the Egg Man," I'd say "Law and Oracle" was one of the few episodes this season that gave me a real classic vibe. That's not to say I haven't enjoyed 6B overall (because I have)--just that the remaining episodes have had some weird tonal and character things that kept me from getting as giddy about them as I do about episodes from the original run.

I do have high hopes for the last three episodes this season, though. They look like they'll nail things in the humor, characterization, and emotion departments.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #494 on: 08-26-2011 00:26 »

Cold Warrios from the clip so far looks to be rather Futurama-y. I sure hope it turns out that way or else one of these days Ndnd, bang, zoom, straight to the third moon of Omicron Persei 8!...
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #495 on: 08-26-2011 02:16 »

I want flying Routemasters and Black Cabs. 
Maybe the Underground could have a Maglev style system?   I would also love to see some futuristic plays on some of the stations (maybe Seven Sisters could actually have a star map of the Pleiades in it?)
Gammaden Town 
London Amidala  (instead of Victoria)
Orion Circus
Notting Hill Stargate
Rancor and Castle (Elephant and Castle)
Hyperoval

This is harder then I thought.  How do Futurama people make the puns look so easy! frown

Myself, I love tea, and making a good cup of tea is the only social skill I actually have.

To add to the list, I'd like to see:
The Great British weather
A futuristic twist on the London Eye
Hover Black Cabs
Suicide Booths being the red telephone boxes
Something to do with futuristic football
British Streets
Hover Mini Coopers



Hmmm.... maybe Red Phone boxes could be suicide boths, but Tardises could be actual phone boxes, with the obviously tragic results of people mixing up the two?  : D

I would love to see Amy and Leela going crazy in a futuristic Oxford Street.  Maybe they could bump into Vivienne Westwood's head in a jar at Selfridges.
Bend-err

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #496 on: 08-26-2011 03:18 »



Some interesting facts about the ratings.
The 2nd lowest rated season is season 3 with an average of 79.54% (average overall is 80.43%). yet that season is the only one with 2 episodes reaching 93%. Season 6 can still archive that with the remaining 3 episodes.
The highest rated season (season 1 with 84.77%) is also the only season with no episode rated 93%.
Season 1 though is the only season where only one episode drops segificantly under the 80% mark. Only season 4 and 1 have no episodes lower than 70%.
Only 3 episodes ever drop to or below 50%, two of which are in Season 6.
So far the average rating for the last episode of the season is at 81%, very close to the overall average. Mainly dropped down by Season 2, which ended at that seasons lowest rated episode.
The most average Episodes (ratings of 80% & 81% ) are in Season 2 with 5 average episodes. Season 6 so far has the fewest.
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #497 on: 08-26-2011 03:25 »

Season three is second lowest? Weird. It and this season are definitely the most wildly fluctuating, though.

People really hated Yo Leela Leela, then. I don't really see why. It was much better than the Holiday Spectacular. I think a number of fans went into it expecting to dislike it.

I really hope Season 6 ends on a nice high note. which it looks like it is going to do.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #498 on: 08-26-2011 03:30 »
« Last Edit on: 08-26-2011 03:33 »

Yeah.  It's not a fantastic episode, but it had lots of clever and interesting jokes.  I just think a lot of people hate kids and will hate anything to do with them.  Cubert I will admit is a pretty grating character most of the time and a punch in his pug nose wouldn't go amiss, but Dwight is pretty inoffensive, but people despise him as much as Cubert.  I think if Dwight was ten years old but had pretty much the same personality, people really woudln't mind him so much.

I know I enjoyed possibly because I can relate to both being made to watch horrible children's telly on Nick Jr whilst babysitting, and I can relate to wanting to write for kids (Don't I need a degree to write gibberish for toddlers?) Or ripping on the inanity of children's television "Let's do exactly what we just did three more times!"
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #499 on: 08-26-2011 03:35 »

I can't really relate to it but I thought it was enjoyable anyways. Yeah, not the best ever, but I don't think it was the worst ever either. I thought the premise was handled in a really non-cringeworthy way, which was more than I was expecting out of it. All in all the episode was a pleasant surprise.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
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« Reply #500 on: 08-26-2011 03:39 »

I certainly enjoyed it. 

Popular! Slut!  CLUB!  The only part that bugged me was the ending.  I know they were trying to do a send up the typical "Character does something bad and is karmically punished for it, but everything goes to normal" by having the characters benefit from Leela's lies, but it felt confusing.  I can't tell whether the Humplings and the orphans are supposed to be benefitted by the new deal, or if they are being exploited.  Good idea, bad execution. 

But I liked it.  And the songs were catchy.  Yeah the alien reveal did feel strange, but considering we've seen so many strange looking aliens in the Futurama verse like the yarn people, they didn't feel that any of them were pushing it, except Princess Num Num, the cup cake girl.
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #501 on: 08-26-2011 03:46 »

I didn't even think it was strange, just predictable. And I loved the very last bit, with them all dancing around her. The third act though just had a case of cram-it-all-in. (Even that wasn't as big an issue as it was in, say, Ghost in the Machines.)

I thought the ep had one of the best opening scenes of 6B. I love the Orphanarium and the first "story" had me laughing. And agreed, that "don't lick it" song is such an earworm.

Iunno. Comparing season 6 to the original run is always an interesting endeavour, but the graph is nice. If anything, it goes to show that today's nerdlingers can't make up their damn minds.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #502 on: 08-26-2011 03:58 »

Yeah I really enjoyed the Orphinarium bit.  Organ harvesting clowns and brain scanning rays?  Awesome.
Bend-err

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #503 on: 08-26-2011 04:17 »
« Last Edit on: 08-26-2011 04:22 »



The average of rating of Season 6 so far is slightly higher on CGEF than on PEEL (75.52% vs 75.26%).
Though PEEL seems to be especially less extreme with the negative episodes.
Only Futurama Holiday Spectacular is rated quite low on both, but still over 50% on PEEL.
The biggest differences where PEEL rates better are:
  • In-A-Gadda-Da-Leela       + 9.24 from 55% to 64.24%
  • All the Presidents' Heads   +10.40 from 69% to 79.40%
  • Yo Leela Leela                +16.99 from 40% to 56.99%
Especially YLL is rated way better on PEEL than CGEF.

The biggest difference in favour for CGEF is:
  • Benderama                       +11.86 from 82% to 73.86%
  • The Silence of the Clamps   +18.17 from 86% to 67.83%

More detailed which Episode is rated higher and lower where is posted by Mongo
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #504 on: 08-26-2011 05:19 »

And the songs were catchy.

That alone made the episode worthwhile for me. This season has been sorely lacking, song-wise, and hearing Katey Sagal impersonate various Rumbledy Hump creatures was pretty hilarious.

But yeah, I think people were harsh on "Yo Leela Leela" overall; Leela episodes tend to be divisive, but I almost always like 'em (I'm one of the few people who genuinely enjoys "A Leela of Her Own," after all). The reveal at the end of act two was kind of lame, but I thought it was handled well enough in the third act. I can kind of forgive the writers for a misstep in storytelling when they then run with it in a more or less entertaining manner.

And I think some of these more drastic differences in opinion on PEEL and CGEF are based on who's posting reviews, and on what site. I know that I don't usually rate the episodes on CGEF (though many PEELers do), and I'd guess that there are quite a few non-PEELers who only rate on CGEF. That's probably self-evident and really obvious, so I don't know why I'm stating it; I'm just in awe of all these pretty graphs we've been getting in on-topic lately, I guess.
meisterPOOP

Professor
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« Reply #505 on: 08-26-2011 05:23 »

oh...Yeah..and...

The MERCHANDISE...
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #506 on: 08-26-2011 06:30 »

I think it's really interesting that the CGEF averages seem to fluctuate a lot more than the PEEL ones, seeing as there are a lot more people voting on CGEF than PEEL so one would think it would be the other way around.
Professor Zoidy

Urban Legend
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« Reply #507 on: 08-26-2011 07:25 »

My theory is that there is probably a wider variety of viewers who are over at CGEF, whereas we are all fairly like-minded when it comes to what we like and do not. Over my years being here I've seen many a heated discussion about episodes and generally the populace here finds something of a middle ground. We have general "we like this, but hate this" lists. I cannot speak for CGEF because I've not posted there since what I will dub the "Great PEEL Breakdown" a couple years back when PEEL was offline for a bit. Regardless, a wider variety is my only guess as to why the chart fluctuates so much and I believe my theory is as thin as tissue paper with holes all in it like Swiss cheese.

I'll just go back into my dark cave now and quietly read threads instead of comment in them.
flesheatingbull

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #508 on: 08-26-2011 08:40 »

1/1 so far on the classic futurama vibe. i'm really excited for the next two episodes.
Bend-err

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #509 on: 08-26-2011 10:34 »

I think it's really interesting that the CGEF averages seem to fluctuate a lot more than the PEEL ones, seeing as there are a lot more people voting on CGEF than PEEL so one would think it would be the other way around.

PEELers don't like giving out low ratings. If you look through the threads you'll notice that 1s, 2s, 3s and even 4s are rarely used, if at all for most of the episodes.
Guess we try to see the positive aspects of every episode.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #510 on: 08-26-2011 11:45 »

The graphs are interesting and well made, Bend-err. I love seeing Peeler's graphs; it shows we like to get serious about Futurama!...

I thought the premise was handled in a really non-cringeworthy way

I cringed several times and it just wasnít Futurama to me. Itís not what I watch Futurama for. There are so many other ideas, Sci-Fi ideas unexplored and they subjected us to this no no...

And the songs were catchy.

No they werenít, they sucked. I hated them, I was embarrassed watching it quite frankly...

To me CGEF rating of Yo Leela Leela is much more accurate, and not just because itís based on more people...
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #511 on: 08-26-2011 13:43 »

I really wish there were more children's television shows that implored it's viewers to poke dead things with sticks, and lick them instead. 

Plus I really loved Leela's song to the orphans.  I suppose it's because I want to write something similar for my godson/cousins.  I found it really inspirational and sweet.  And it felt pretty i/c of Leela, since we know she's very caring and maternal, so it makes sense she'd want to make the orphans feel happy.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #512 on: 08-26-2011 13:48 »

I really wish there were more children's television shows that implored it's viewers to poke dead things with sticks, and lick them instead.

Well yeah, I think we all do. Just not in Futurama...
K42
Crustacean
*
« Reply #513 on: 08-27-2011 12:09 »
« Last Edit on: 08-27-2011 12:14 »

Hi everyone. I'd like to point out one thing. I'm always perplexed at how viewers are talking about what's canon and what's not, or checking if the continuity holds up, or if there's consistency down to the smaller details. All that while the writers this half season pretty much erased everything related to past developments in the relationships between regular characters, both in Fry-Leela's and Kif-Amy's case. Mind you, I'm not a shipper, it's not something I especially like on this show. But it's just something that existed and has been resetted, and the particular subject of this reset being stable relationships makes me sad, because to me it detracts from the adult appeal of the show (also it says something about the current writers not being able to handle the situation and losing a potential of good stories, or just good gags, due to that).

First of all, we have to accept the truth of that, not going to extraordinary lengths in order to hand wave it: when two characters are supposed to be together, you don't have to actually say it out loud in every scene they are in. It will be obvious from the context and the subtext of the dialogues. If you had never seen The Flintstones, and you happen to catch an episode that's all about Fred and Wilma, you would get that Barney and Betty are together, even if they didn't appear to hold hands or call each other sweet names in the one scene they're in; they don't have to tell you that (and that's the freaking Flintstones!).
Now just think of someone who knows nothing about Futurama and suppose he/she just watched all the episodes in season 6B. Then ask what he/she got about the characters' relationship status. He/she would say, "The red-haired guy is pining over the one-eyed girl; she cares about him but that's all. The Chinese girl is single. The rasta guy is married".
And that would be it.

So, bottom line is: Futurama is set in a flexible reality, just that. In Cold Warriors, we've to assume both Zapp and Kif never actually met the guys. They don't know the Planet Express ship, they don't have anything to comment about the crew going or not going to their deaths.
That's absolutely fine, except I remember when Futurama was trying to NOT be like that. To be more.
Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #514 on: 08-27-2011 12:55 »

Really?  Maybe they didn't notice it was them behind the sealing.  And even when they went through, you would assume Nimbus would have stuck to its mission?

And if they hadn't met, how did they convince them to land Manhattan back after they found the vaccine?
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #515 on: 08-28-2011 00:54 »

So, bottom line is: Futurama is set in a flexible reality, just that. In Cold Warriors, we've to assume both Zapp and Kif never actually met the guys.

That's the dumbest thing I've read on PEEL from an intelligent poster in... ... ...a while. Seriously, Futurama's always had a "what has happened, has happened" policy. It's what allowed them to set up things like TWOF's reveal of Nibbler hiding in the cryogenics facility and the Nibblonian's grand plan for wiping out the Brain Spawn. It's part of what made it more than just another cartoon like The Simpsons.

"Set in a flexible reality" just won't cut it, I'm afraid. In Cold Warriors, it's pretty obvious that everybody on Earth is terrified of the common cold. They don't know what it will do, they're unprepared for it, and remember, the common cold can be deadly to those without an existing resistance to the virus. Zapp is true to his established nature, and his spineless second-in-command is obviously hesitant to send the missile towards the PX ship (but isn't given a choice). You've got to remember that Kif might love Amy, but there are additional points to consider.
  • He doesn't know if Amy's on the ship. For all he knows, she could be on Mars, safe from the virus on her parents' buggalo ranch.
  • He's just as scared of the virus as anybody else is.
  • He's acting under orders. Zapp's his boss. He's subject to the chain of command, and must do as Zapp says.
  • Kif does hesitate. He could have recognised the ship and been about to say something before Zapp smooshes his face onto the button.
"Flexible reality" my ass. Continuity isn't actually violated by this. It's just a little too rushed for a full explanation to be crammed in. The episodes' only fault in my opinion is that it's all very rushed towards the end. They spend a little too much time in flashback, setting it up. We could have done with a scene where the Nimbus arrives in orbit around Enceledus, attempts to blow up the PX ship and is given an explanation of what's going on by the Professor. The episode needed more time. Given that, I'm certain that the scene between Kif and Zapp would've been done slightly differently.
Bend-err

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #516 on: 08-28-2011 01:07 »

Wait, people are complaining that Kif would launch the rocket at the PE ship?
Am I the only one (besides tnuk it seems) who actually watched the episode?
Kif obviously didn't want to fire and wanted to talk back to Zapp.
Though he only got as far as "But..." before Zapp uses his face to launch the rocket.

Why he was even on the Nimbus, helping them to launch Manhattan into the Sun? Because it's his job to be on the ship. Surely Zapp wouldn't have had him to a phone call to Amy, see that she's in Manhattan, try to argue to set her free etc etc. He's just working for Zapp and has to do what he's told.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #517 on: 08-28-2011 01:08 »
« Last Edit on: 08-28-2011 01:10 »

He's acting under orders. Zapp's his boss. He's subject to the chain of command, and must do as Zapp says.

This. Kif is loyal to a fault when it comes to Zapp, precisely because he takes his job seriously (and, yeah, he's kind of spineless. He's supported by a system of fluid-filled bladders, after all) and would never explicitly disobey direct orders. In the past, he's halfheartedly argued with him when Zapp was about to do something stupid (allowing a disguised Decapodian on the Nimbus in "A Taste of Freedom," to name one example), but he's always done what was asked of him. I take his hesitation in "Cold Warriors" to mean that 1.) he knows it's dumb to shoot at the plastic barrier around Manhattan, as it will create an opening through which the PE ship can escape; and 2.) if Amy's on-board, Kif doesn't want anything bad to happen to her.

So, yeah, I disagree with the flexible reality theory, too. I think the writers wisely chose not to devote too much time to Kif's mixed feelings about dooming all of New New York because the episode wasn't about that--it was about Fry and his past and curing the common cold. To grant too much weight to Kif's feelings about the situation would have not only eaten up time, but also potentially derailed the episode and confused its emotional through-line (which clearly lies with Fry and his relationship with his father).
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #518 on: 08-28-2011 02:38 »

Well what finally made Kif man up and give Zapp a punch in the guts?  Him seducing Amy.  So if he's about to fling her into the sun, I think he would put up more resistance.   Again, Amy has actually piloted the PE ship to visit him, and has been a passenger on it many times in the past, several times with Kif himself.
spira

Liquid Emperor
**
« Reply #519 on: 08-28-2011 02:50 »

Futurama is not set in a flexible reality. It never has been. Zapp and Kif have never once not known the PE ship before. THe thing about Futurama as compared to other shows like the Simpsons is that times does progress, at the same rate it progresses over here, which means there is a distinct chronology and continuity.

Kif does hesitate before he's slammed into the button, and being supported by a series of fluid-filled bladders, his head doesn't really stand a chance resisting the force of Zapp's arm. I think that's as good as we can expect. I'm glad they didn't delve too much into sideplots this episode, actually, I think that made the ep more streamlined.
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