Thoughts on 6ACV13 - Futurama Holiday Spectacular - SPOILERS

[Reply #160 on:]

Then it might be revealed that Mom is the "savior's" secret benefactor, and her diabolical plan is to indefinitely prolong the gift-giving (i.e. gift buying) season so that consumers will buy more of Mom's products. And of course the PlanEx crew would deduce that something was wrong and be the ones who spear-headed the opposition to the "savior" and Mom. The PlanEx crew would liberate and restore Robot Santa, Hannuhah Zombie, and Kwanzaa Bot, and together they'd defeat Mom and her minions.

I think this actually has a lot of potential, partly because Mom hasn't at all been involved in anything Xmas-related yet and partly because I think it just works. It's different enough from all the other Xmas stories, and it would be canon, which I'm not complaining about. Also, brain slugs, good idea! Those need to make at least one more entrance into the series.

[Reply #161 on:]

Someone insisted that I justify my opinion of why I thought that "Ghosts in the Machine" was worse than this admittedly terrible episode.

Alright, no need to be a bitch about it I appreciate that you have taken the time to justify why you liked this episode more and the aspects which you found funny. In doing so it does help to back up the claims you’re making, although I still wholeheartedly disagree with them as many of the things you found funny in Holiday Craptacular I really didn’t. I at least have a little more respect for your opinion now that you have justified what it was you liked so much more about this episode than Ghost In The Machines, even if I don’t agree on a lot of these points...

So here's a list of the things that I actually liked and considered funny in this episode: (I've marked the parts that I literally laughed-out-loud.)

• Narrator/Announcer’s voice-over and product placements for Gunderson’s Unshelled Nuts

Xmas
• Amy’s blatant product placement for Gunderson’s Unshelled Nuts: “It’s nut so good!”
• Santa’s line: “God rest ye merry gentlemen... in peace!” while locking and loading a machine gun on his sleigh
• Robot Santa’s song – plenty of funny lines and action during the song [LoL]
• Fry kicking Scruffy lying on the floor and saying: “Santa might’ve killed Scruffy, but he makes a good point...”
• The Professor yelling at Fry: “Cram it, Virginia!” [LoL]
• The PlanEx ship sliding and crashing on the ice, and then the crew exiting like nothing happened
• The Norwegian guard’s funny accent [LoL]
• The Germ Warfare Repository being next door to the Seed Vault, and having an open window flapping in the wind
• The guard’s explanation of how the pine trees became extinct because they were chopped down for toilet paper during the “50 Year Squirts”
• President Nixon’s Head’s presidential limo running over Tinny Tim [LoL]
• Vice-President Dick Cheney’s Head ordering Nixon to “steal that tree!” [LoL]
• Bender’s cigar ignites the Earth’s oxygen over-saturated atmosphere and burns the entire planet [LoL]

Robanukah
• Bender shouting, “I’m talking about Robanukah! The holiest six and a half weeks long in the Robot calendar.”
• Bender’s Robonukah song – not one of the better Futurama songs, but it had some mildly funny parts
• The fembot saying, “Not in the hair, please. I just had it did,” in either a New Jersey or Staten Island accent [LoL]
• The Mombil station fuel attendant’s yokel accent
• Al Gore’s Head asking for change for a Nobel Peace Prize
• Professor saying that there could be oil buried in the Earth, but a pressure’s so dangerously high – then Bender interrupting, honking the horn, and shouting, “Let’s go already!” [LoL]
• Leela saying, “Setting Bachman Turners to overdrive.”
• The gag about the Albino Humping Worm [LoL]
• Bender’s acting when he calls Leela “you vile racist”; then him admitting that any oil will do; then the crew getting crushed and killed, and Bender saying, “Not my fault.”
• Bender’s acting when he discovers that the petroleum oil used for fembot oil wrestling lasted for 500 million years – and that the PlanEx crew died for nothing

Kwanzaa
• Barbados Slim’s rhyming line, “Like the ever changing nature of my sexual proclivities,” – the only funny part in the Kwanzaa song [LoL]
• Kwanzaa bot saying: “Who the hell knows?” if it’s the last night of Kwanza
• Petunia’s lines [LoL]
• Fry’s line: “Like the deadly Prius.”
• Bender insulting the Queen Bee
• The Bees’ impressions [LoL]

• Al Gore’s wrap-up of the episode

This episode was very disappointing, and one of of the series' worst. However, I count more than twice as many LoL gags in this episode, compared to the abysmal "Ghosts in the Machine" episode.

The crucial difference is that this episode provided new musical numbers, whereas the worst episode teased us with songs, but refused to deliver them. This episode's songs weren't the best, but a few mediocre songs are better than none at all.

I have watched this episode again for the first time in many months in order to fairly understand the aspects which you enjoyed. One thing which surprises me is that the part of the episode which I found funniest of all you haven’t even mentioned; when Dr Zoidberg turns his chair around and faces the wall in the Kwanzaa act. That got a laugh out loud from me, but it seems it didn’t even register on your scale...

On the other hand you found The Bees impressions not just chuckle worthy, but laugh out loud worthy I hate that part of the episode, it was just extremely unfunny, in my mind it fucked with my perception of the bees from The Sting; that being one of my favourite episodes means this was simply unforgivable. Not only was it extremely poorly conceived and very corny on a humour level, but it brought the whole episode down yet another notch for me which was already extremely low already...

I did like the Albino Humping Worm joke a lot, and there are a few instances which you pointed out which I did find chuckle worthy throughout. For that reason I deemed this episode 3/10 on my original viewing. Having seen it again today I am sticking with my score. It is still in my opinion the worst episode of Futurama to date, but it’s not a 1/10 for me like Ghost In The Machines is to you because I at least value these chuckle worthy moments despite the utter cringe worthy moments such as the Bees talking, and the songs which were all dreadful. The redeeming factors, some of which you’ve mentioned are enough to push my rating to 3/10 which I feel is justified...

I thought this episode's songs were dreadful and I'd rather be teased with no full songs at all than be subjected to three embarrassingly bad songs.

I wholeheartedly agree. They weren’t any better on a repeat viewing either...

[Reply #162 on:]

So I guess I finally agree with Sorkyn on something. I am one of few people who liked the bees in this one (and yes, The Sting is still an amazing episode, one of my absolute favourites).

[Reply #163 on:]

Ick, the bees. Now there's a callback that didn't need to be done. I liked Fry's line about swearing they'd never go back to that planet, but everything else just takes all that was tense and dramatic about the original visit to the space bee planet and turns it into an unfunny and unnecessary joke.

[Reply #164 on:]

I also liked Fry's line about swearing they'd never go back. I just wish it ended there and the train wreck which ensued never happened...

[Reply #165 on:]

I did like the Albino Humping Worm joke a lot, and there are a few instances which you pointed out which I did find chuckle worthy throughout. For that reason I deemed this episode 3/10 on my original viewing. Having seen it again today I am sticking with my score. It is still in my opinion the worst episode of Futurama to date, but it’s not a 1/10 for me like Ghost In The Machines is to you because I at least value these chuckle worthy moments despite the utter cringe worthy moments such as the Bees talking, and the songs which were all dreadful. The redeeming factors, some of which you’ve mentioned are enough to push my rating to 3/10 which I feel is justified...

I'm with Soryn that the worst episode in your opinion should get a 1/10... if you start giving them extra points for things that you enjoyed, then you're basically rating the episodes on a TV-scale relative to episodes of every show ever, in which case I wouldn't give an episode lower than 6/10 and the vast majority would get 8/10.
The idea of a 1/10 score isn't that you don't see anything of merit in any episode you give 1/10 -it's just that if you were to rank all of the episodes into 10 different tier-levels, the episodes in the bottom-tier would get a 1/10.

[Reply #166 on:]

I'm with Soryn that the worst episode in your opinion should get a 1/10... if you start giving them extra points for things that you enjoyed, then you're basically rating the episodes on a TV-scale relative to episodes of every show ever, in which case I wouldn't give an episode lower than 6/10 and the vast majority would get 8/10.

But I rated it a 3/10 which contradicts what you just said...

The idea of a 1/10 score isn't that you don't see anything of merit in any episode you give 1/10 -it's just that if you were to rank all of the episodes into 10 different tier-levels, the episodes in the bottom-tier would get a 1/10.

I do see things of merit in Holiday Craptacular, hence why I gave it a 3/10...

[Reply #167 on:]

Also, it's probably safe to say that no Futurama episode exists that is entirely devoid of merit. Even "Where the Buggalo Roam," which is probably my own least-favorite episode, is not so unwatchable that it is worth the dreaded 1/10 rating. Of course, a 1/10 rating is pretty much the same thing as an 'F,' and all an 'F' means is that you did more things wrong than right, percentage-wise. Still, it seems a bit too dismissive to give any episode a 1/10, considering that any episode of Futurama trumps most of the other garbage on TV.

'Course, now I suppose I'm just confirming what cyber_turnip says about grading relative to all of television, as opposed to just my standards for an episode of Futurama.

[Reply #168 on:]

As bad as this episode is, I have seen far worse episodes of The Simpsons; episodes with no merit at all unlike Holiday Craptacular which has a few worthwhile moments. Those terrible episodes of The Simpsons which have no merit are the kinds of episodes I would rate 1/10. I believe that if Futurama was ever given the chance to carry on for a similar length of time, as much as it pains me to say it we would probably see a similar thing happen. Then I would give those such episodes a 1/10, simply because they had no merit or redeeming factors whatsoever...

[Reply #169 on:]

I'm with Soryn that the worst episode in your opinion should get a 1/10... if you start giving them extra points for things that you enjoyed, then you're basically rating the episodes on a TV-scale relative to episodes of every show ever, in which case I wouldn't give an episode lower than 6/10 and the vast majority would get 8/10.

But I rated it a 3/10 which contradicts what you just said...

No it doesn't? It goes against my beliefs which I brought up because of your rating system. It's not that your rating system bothers me so much as I'm defending Soryn's.

The idea of a 1/10 score isn't that you don't see anything of merit in any episode you give 1/10 -it's just that if you were to rank all of the episodes into 10 different tier-levels, the episodes in the bottom-tier would get a 1/10.

I do see things of merit in Holiday Craptacular, hence why I gave it a 3/10...

Did you even read what I wrote?

[Reply #170 on:]

I'm with Soryn that the worst episode in your opinion should get a 1/10... if you start giving them extra points for things that you enjoyed, then you're basically rating the episodes on a TV-scale relative to episodes of every show ever, in which case I wouldn't give an episode lower than 6/10 and the vast majority would get 8/10.

But I rated it a 3/10 which contradicts what you just said...

No it doesn't? It goes against my beliefs which I brought up because of your rating system. It's not that your rating system bothers me so much as I'm defending Soryn's.

What I’m saying is that I’m not rating it on a TV-scale. You were quoting my post when you made that point, and if I was to rate it on a TV scale then yes I would probably be rating the lower episodes 6/10 and the majority higher like yourself if you were rating them on a TV-scale, but I’m saying that I’m not, hence why I said it was a contradiction. I’m not really sure what you’re getting it here because clearly neither Soryn or I are rating episodes on a TV-scale...

The idea of a 1/10 score isn't that you don't see anything of merit in any episode you give 1/10 -it's just that if you were to rank all of the episodes into 10 different tier-levels, the episodes in the bottom-tier would get a 1/10.

I do see things of merit in Holiday Craptacular, hence why I gave it a 3/10...

Did you even read what I wrote?

I understand that you’re trying to justify that method of rating, but I’m saying that I don’t fall into that rating system either, because personally I don’t agree with that method as outlined in my post comparing Futurama episodes to Simpsons episodes above...

[Reply #171 on:]

Don't bother comparing or contrasting your personal rating systems for scoring Futurama episodes. It'll just lead to another pointless argument.

cyber_turnip is correct that my personal "Futurama scale" rating system is similar to a tier-based system. Whole numbers designate the tier, and decimal numbers are supposed to designate the rank within that tier. The episodes in the bottom 1 tier are there because I consider them to be the worst episodes, not because they have no merits whatsoever; they belong on the bottom tier because I don't enjoy watching them.

We agree that if we rated Futurama using a "TV scale" then the average episode of Futurama would earn an 8. The problem with that is that there would be little distinction between an average 8/10 episode and an exceptional 10/10 episode. That's why I prefer rating episodes on the Futurama scale. Since this is a Futurama forum, IMO it's unnecessary to compare Futurama episodes to other TV shows -- it makes more sense to compare Futurama to itself.

[Reply #172 on:]

Don't bother comparing or contrasting your personal rating systems for scoring Futurama episodes. It'll just lead to another pointless argument.

Or we could have a vote on it instead. No argument on PEEL is "pointless", after all. Everything we discuss here is vital to the smooth running of the universe!

[Reply #173 on:]

Okay some things I noticed on ANOTHER viewing...

500 million years after 3010, the PE building is the only thing left, and I find it ironic that the building can withstand almost anything, but the ship, according to the Professor, 'falls apart in the hangar'.

Bender wears the blue skarf he knitted in 'A Clockwork Origin', and the beat to the Kwanzaa song is actually pretty good. Has a Futurama-y feel to it, reminded me of the music in the game.

[Reply #174 on:]

I guess the PE Building is so strong due to the protection against the annual attack from Robot Santa, but then again I doubt the armour shields would have been up when they went underground. Also, Fry and Bender managed to damage the PE Building somewhat when they took it on a trip around the world in The Cryonic Woman, and the whales tail certainly caused damage to the PE Buildings wall in Möbius Dick ...

It’s just another example of how ridiculous the endings were on each of the segments, and what a bad episode this truly is. Good thing it’s not canon...

Nice find on the scarf though...

[Reply #175 on:]

I don't know how harsh we can really be on the PE building thing because the plotline of that episode is supposed to be completely ridiculous and non-canon. Plus the building was definitely gone in TLPJF, which is the actual canon.

[Reply #176 on:]

It might not be gone in the canon Universe spira, remember that that was a Universe where Fry, Bender and the Professor were presumed dead and Leela took control.

[Reply #177 on:]

Yeah, not only is it non-canon, but it's parodying the similarly ridiculous story of Hanukkah - which to be fair, isn't any more or less ridiculous than most other religious holiday stories.

[Reply #178 on:]

it was a joke, a funny one at that. no need to discuss and complain about it.

also, CT is correct.

[Reply #179 on:]

Then it might be revealed that Mom is the "savior's" secret benefactor, and her diabolical plan is to indefinitely prolong the gift-giving (i.e. gift buying) season so that consumers will buy more of Mom's products. And of course the PlanEx crew would deduce that something was wrong and be the ones who spear-headed the opposition to the "savior" and Mom. The PlanEx crew would liberate and restore Robot Santa, Hannuhah Zombie, and Kwanzaa Bot, and together they'd defeat Mom and her minions.

I think this actually has a lot of potential, partly because Mom hasn't at all been involved in anything Xmas-related yet and partly because I think it just works. It's different enough from all the other Xmas stories, and it would be canon, which I'm not complaining about. Also, brain slugs, good idea! Those need to make at least one more entrance into the series.

I like that idea too.  Instant awesome: Just add Mom.

[Reply #180 on:]

If someone is involved making a fuckton of money regardless of the principles behind it it's Mom. Xmas is just the ideal backbone for such a story, it's exactly her sort of territory. I don't know why it's never happened before! Just as long as they don't play her as the Scrooge type and make it a parody of that story, been there, done that, we don't need it in Futurama thanx ...

[Reply #181 on:]

If someone is involved making a fuckton of money regardless of the principles behind it it's Mom. Xmas is just the ideal backbone for such a story, it's exactly her sort of territory. I don't know why it's never happened before! Just as long as they don't play her as the Scrooge type and make it a parody of that story, been there, done that, we don't need it in Futurama thanx ...

They really need to do an episode where Mom creates a new holiday to replace Christmas as the premier orgy of commercialisim and greed and guilt.   Once I said to someone Merry Christmas... in October.  Why?  Because they were playing damn Christmas music in every shop in Oxford Street.    Things like that, and people buying catalogues and taking out loans in March to pay for the upcoming Christmas that year, that's the kind of bullshit Mom would thrive on.  Crank up the Christmas tunes in August, the Macy's x amount of shopping days until Christmas parade, aggressive commericals trying to guilt you into believing that if you don't go into debt paying for your family and friend's christmas presents, you are a horrible selfish person...
(We could also have a cute character like Sally and Timmy Tim making thoughtful homemade presents and cards for the people they care about, only for Mom's hired goons to destroy the lot and snarl: "Buy presents you little cheapskate!  Nobody wants pinecones with glitter on them!"

And it could turn out Mom is using the profits for some nefarious scheme, as she is wont to do.

Christmas atm in the Futurama verse is mostly Santa's (heh just realized Santa is an anagram of Satan) bloodboth, but Mom could just create New CHristmas or Happy Puppy Giftgiving Day to simply replace it.

[Reply #182 on:]

Why can't Mom just team up with Robot Santa?

[Reply #183 on:]

Why can't Mom just team up with Robot Santa?

Because people need to be alive to buy Mom's products.

[Reply #184 on:]

Make all the products death traps (make the Neptunians build them in the workshop), then sell them. Mom gets the cash, Robot Santa gets the pleasure of murder.

[Reply #185 on:]

Make all the products death traps (make the Neptunians build them in the workshop), then sell them. Mom gets the cash, Robot Santa gets the pleasure of murder.

Still, but Mom is far too greedy to start killing off her customers.  They are no good to her dead. Maybe instead of teaming up, Mom and Robot Santa go to war?
Santa wants to slaughter the Earthicans, while Mom wants them alive, not because of the goodness of her own heart, but so can keep buying her products.  Hell, a Mom/Robot Santa war would be awesome.  Plus wasn't her company responsible for his creation?  Mom probably longs fot the days where people would trample eachother to buy the last Furby or Cabbage Patch kid on Christmas Eve. 

[Reply #186 on:]

Yes it would! Then the PE crew could ask the Robot Devil for help, one of those situations where the most evil character saves the day.

[Reply #187 on:]

You guys just might be onto something, sounds a hell of a lot better than Holiday Craptacular was anyhow!...

[Reply #188 on:]

How about a flashback episode in which Mom sets about creating a new form of Christmas, Xmas, and we see the origins of Robot Santa in a bit more detail.

I don't feel like we need to see Robot Santa's origin, but flashback episodes seem to work well and it just seems like the logical way to work both Robot Santa and Mom into an Xmas episode in my opinion. Especially as Farnsworth probably has some involvement in it all.

[Reply #189 on:]

I would like to see Mom's ancestor building the original Robot Santa (since I think Robot Santa was built before she was born). 

Perhaps the Mom character we see in this episode was genuinely a sweet old woman who wanted to make people happy, and it all went wrong, turning her into the direct ancestor of the malovelent old shrew we see today.  (I don't really like the idea of our Mom ever being anything other then the socipathic dictator she always has been, but if her great grandmother was, that could be interesting.)

[Reply #190 on:]

The flashback idea is also a good one (as long as no continuity is broken as a result of it). These are two potentially great Xmas eps in the making right here. I hope they do make another Xmas ep, one which makes up for the disappointment of Holiday Craptacular. I hope it's a full length canon story if it ever happens. I don't want the Xmas eps to go out like they have at the moment, it simply doesn't do the originals justice ...

[Reply #191 on:]

I would like to see Mom's ancestor building the original Robot Santa (since I think Robot Santa was built before she was born). 

We know that Robot Santa was built by Mom's Friendly Robot Company and we've seen Mom alive during the development of the first robots in Crimes of the Hot, so I'm pretty sure that she was around and probably played a pivotal role in the origins of 'Xmas'.

That said, I do quite like the idea of her ancestor being as Mom depicts herself to the general public.

[Reply #192 on:]

On the other idea of Mom going to war with Robot Santa, maybe instead of Mom fighting Robot Santa directly she could build another evil Robot to do the dirty work for her, but one which she can control from a remote in her bra...

[Reply #193 on:]

I would like to see Mom's ancestor building the original Robot Santa (since I think Robot Santa was built before she was born). 

We know that Robot Santa was built by Mom's Friendly Robot Company and we've seen Mom alive during the development of the first robots in Crimes of the Hot, so I'm pretty sure that she was around and probably played a pivotal role in the origins of 'Xmas'.

That said, I do quite like the idea of her ancestor being as Mom depicts herself to the general public.

The Robot Santa was apparently made in 2801, so Mom would have to be well over 200 years old to have been involved in creating him.

[Reply #194 on:]

Hmm, does this not make the flashback scenes in 'Crimes of the Hot' something of a major continuity error, then?

Perhaps Robot Santa was supposedly some sort of early prototype robot that got released decades ahead of the others...

[Reply #195 on:]

Oh man, I never noticed that before but it's a really valid point.

It would be great to see some Robot Santa history, and it's always nice seeing early Mom, but if the two don't coincide, which it doesn't seem like they do, trying to fit them into one episode could produce a lot of pacing problems.

[Reply #196 on:]

Hmm, does this not make the flashback scenes in 'Crimes of the Hot' something of a major continuity error, then?

Perhaps Robot Santa was supposedly some sort of early prototype robot that got released decades ahead of the others...

Nononono, because the robots we have seen in the flashback in COTH were just the prototypical modern robots.  There were robots before then, but they were a different type (that seems to have been phased out or scrapped.)  I highly doubt Mom is that old, but hey.  Its the future.  Mom could actually be 300, kept alive with a highly sophisticated brand of nanomachines she invented.  I wouldn't mind seeing Mom's ancestor, who actually is a sweet old lady who loves robots and wants to use her inventions to make people happy and improve their quality of life.

Then her robot santa she invented to spread happiness to all of Earth turns crazy and begins slaughtering people instead of giving them toys.  This either makes her go mad, or turns her into the bitter malovolent old harpy, a trait that gets installed in her female descendants, grooming them into the morally bankrupt tyrant Mom is today.

[Reply #197 on:]

Mom could actually be 300, kept alive with a highly sophisticated brand of nanomachines she invented.

But what about her three sons? They're not anywhere near that old ...

[Reply #198 on:]

Mom could actually be 300, kept alive with a highly sophisticated brand of nanomachines she invented.

But what about her three sons? They're not anywhere near that old ...

The nanomachines keep the plumbing functional, if you get my drift.  And she had some eggs frozen.

We probably shouldn't think about that statement too much.

[Reply #199 on:]

Yes, quite...

Well I think the fact that significantly better ideas for Xmas episodes have been brought up in this thread only goes to show what a poor episode Holiday Craptacular really is. There is simply so much more untapped potential...