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Author Topic: New Futurama Speculations 2.0 - (Hopefully) Making Dreams Come True  (Read 29885 times)
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Gorky

Space Pope
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« on: 10-08-2009 12:35 »
« Last Edit on: 11-17-2009 18:00 by [-mArc-] »

(continued from the first thread)


Let's continue speculatin', shall we?

As far as Fry's chase of Leela goes, I think it's played out. I agree with what CookiesontheFloor has said thus far: Fry's pursuit of Leela added a dimension to his character, made him a bit more sympathetic. However, having to chase Leela for 7-ish years--without her caving in the slightest--doesn't exactly do wonders for garnering sympathy for her. The reason I think Fry and Leela should hook up as soon as possible is because it's becoming so contrived and unbelievable to keep them apart (particularly after the "I love you"s at the end of ItWGY)--not to mention hazardous to the audience's respect and/or admiration for Leela. Flat-out rejecting Fry doesn't work anymore, same as flat-out pursuing Leela with the singular attempt to "make her love me" is growing stale. So, yeah. My speculation is that Fry and Leela are going to start dating fairly early on in this new run.

Which brings me to the Zapp/Leela story, which is supposed to be episode two. If the ship is left unresolved in the premiere, then I definitely think the events of this episode will cinch it. I'm really looking forward to this episode, both because the premise sounds hilarious, and because I think it has shippy potential. I can't even explain it fully; it's just a hunch I have.
Juliet

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #1 on: 10-08-2009 13:06 »

Juliet

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #2 on: 10-08-2009 13:09 »

I think the Leela and Zaap episode going to be very funny in which Zapp tries to whoo Leela back to his bed and she refused
Tedward

Professor
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« Reply #3 on: 10-08-2009 16:26 »
« Last Edit on: 10-08-2009 16:28 »

Quote
Regarding the Leela forgetting her 'I love yous' and the whole L/F thing - I think we shouldn't sweat the details. The approximate shape of that character plot arc is pretty much certain, Fry and Leela are all but bound to get together before the end of the series! Lie back and enjoy the 'how' they get together, even if it takes several episodes.

That said, speculation's addictive, so my idle punt is:

1) Fry didn't initially remember things, but needed a prompt from Farnsworth.
2) He'll realise Leela won't remember it immediately either.
3) As our everyman and representative in the show, he'll remember all the 'nearly' moments between him and Leela, and (eventually, just prior to her reanimating - at end of 1st ep?) realise - as we do - that if he tries to convince her that she opened up completely when she can't remember it, this will likely drive her scurrying away again.
4) He'll get a case of the nobles, and decide not to convince her of this. He'll let it slide, and resolve to give up on chasing her.
5) Leela'll be reanimated, give Fry a relatively chaste hug/peck on the cheek as he greets her/fills her in on everything _except_ the 'I love yous', and the episode will end feeling like a repeat of TKoS.
6) The kicker will be Leela really _does_ remember (or comes to remember) all that happened, and she doesn't get why Fry's backing away from it when he seems/says he remembers everything, is hurt/confused, responds by keeping her own distance...

This'll rumble on in the background for a bit, but be resolved about 1/3 of the way through the series, and they'll start slowly becoming an item

That's my bet. Sorry if it's an old idea, and for it taking so long to explain.

I agree with those who liked Marcus’ idea about what could happen. It does seem like this is a plausible and interesting way for the situation to unfold, and I doubt that I would be too upset if it took a little while for Fry and Leela to start dating as this idea might require. However, I also feel that what Cookies said about this sort of slow development being unnecessary because it’s just a misunderstanding could be true as well. Since the plot of that time travel episode, whenever it may be in the new season, apparently involves Fry and Leela having a date, perhaps that means that the process of the two of them remembering their genuine feelings from ITWGY won’t take too long to complete. But it’s really up to the writers to sort it all out, and I imagine that they will make it work, because another reset would be absolutely inexcusable.

Which brings me to the Zapp/Leela story, which is supposed to be episode two. If the ship is left unresolved in the premiere, then I definitely think the events of this episode will cinch it. I'm really looking forward to this episode, both because the premise sounds hilarious, and because I think it has shippy potential. I can't even explain it fully; it's just a hunch I have.

I have high hopes for this, too (and for the whole rest of the show as well). I agree with what you said earlier about it seeming significant that this is the second episode. Since it relates, I guess I’ll bring up the idea I had in the old thread again…

Quote
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #4 on: 10-08-2009 17:35 »

Can't we bring in the "spoiler ahoy"? It'll be impossible to discuss the new season without constant spoilers...
Curious Gorge

Bending Unit
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« Reply #5 on: 10-08-2009 18:32 »

I doubt they'll keep them apart...at least not for long. It's been confirmed that in one episode they'll be dating (with Fry being late oftentimes) hasn't it? So there's some progress for a start. I still fancy them to leave us hanging for at a small while, perhaps for the majority of the first episode, but I can't see them keeping them apart for too long. It'd be a rather dull and unimaginative move on the part of the writers, they're better than that.
lilkitten29

Starship Captain
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« Reply #6 on: 10-08-2009 19:29 »

I won't set my expectations too high. I'll be happy with whatever the writers will bring for as all. I'm just extremely thankful that Futurama is even coming back. Man, I know it's old news, but I still can't believe that Futurama is back!!
Chug a Bug

Bending Unit
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« Reply #7 on: 10-08-2009 21:25 »
« Last Edit on: 10-08-2009 22:05 »

Quote from: cookiesonthefloor  from this post: http://www.peelified.com/index.php?topic=17870.msg1069969#msg1069969
For my part, I completely understand people's worries about the Leela/Fry thing getting stale. But on the other hand...watching that goofball slacker, who's usually so scatterbrained, focus for once on something he really wants and going to absurd lengths to get it was so much fun to watch!

Good post! and so true. and welcome.

Quote from: FistfullofAwesome  from this post: http://www.peelified.com/index.php?topic=17870.msg1070085#msg1070085
Listen, Cooks, what's with this maturity bit that you and Aki are on? The dude's plenty mature. He came to grips with the death of his family, he loves his life and family at PE and clearly appreciates it/them, and he clearly loves Leela. What more do you guys consider maturity? From where I stand, he's a good guy.

Hold on, I agree with Aki and Cookie on this one. No-one argues that Fry is a good guy, he's got a heart of gold, but that ain't the same as maturity. He's maturing, but mature? I don't see it. Look at his behaviour at Lars and Leela's wedding. If that ain't being childish, I don't know what is. Arguably his behaviour in ITWGY is more mature, but it's an ongoing process (and you could argue thats one of the things that Leela responded to in ITWGY.)

However, having to chase Leela for 7-ish years--without her caving in the slightest--doesn't exactly do wonders for garnering sympathy for her.

I'm sorry but thats sounding awfully like all the she-must-love-him-because-she-ought-to arguments and is just lazy thinking IMO. Ok, maybe you were making an objective point about what you think other people's opinions will be, but it wasn't terribly clear if it was.

If she doesn't remember anything that happened previously it won't affect my opinion of her in the least since she clearly isn't to blame for her condition... but, in anycase, how long will it take for her to come to the same conclusion, given the same evidence, again? It's only a matter of time. The more that she remembers closer to her declaration, the sooner it will come.

I doubt they'll keep them apart...at least not for long. It's been confirmed that in one episode they'll be dating (with Fry being late oftentimes) hasn't it? So there's some progress for a start.

Theres also the Professors comment about the "touching scene"... so at least it's acknowledged that it actually happened and they're not ignoring it.
Wonderpants

Bending Unit
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« Reply #8 on: 10-08-2009 21:55 »

However, having to chase Leela for 7-ish years--without her caving in the slightest--doesn't exactly do wonders for garnering sympathy for her. The reason I think Fry and Leela should hook up as soon as possible is because it's becoming so contrived and unbelievable to keep them apart (particularly after the "I love you"s at the end of ItWGY)--not to mention hazardous to the audience's respect and/or admiration for Leela. Flat-out rejecting Fry doesn't work anymore, same as flat-out pursuing Leela with the singular attempt to "make her love me" is growing stale.

Hmmm.

Chasing her for 7 years makes him look rather pathetic and obsessed IMHO, but there you go. And that all ties in with his remark about 'make her love me'. You don't make someone love you!

It's too bad that the relationship got pretty well ignored after BBS up to the last 30 seconds of ITWGY, but I guess that's like crying over spilt milk now....
Nixons Head

Bending Unit
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« Reply #9 on: 10-08-2009 21:59 »


Marcus
Starship Captain
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« Reply #10 on: 10-08-2009 22:03 »
« Last Edit on: 10-08-2009 22:42 »

I agree with those who liked Marcus’ idea about what could happen. It does seem like this is a plausible and interesting way for the situation to unfold, and I doubt that I would be too upset if it took a little while for Fry and Leela to start dating as this idea might require. However, I also feel that what Cookies said about this sort of slow development being unnecessary because it’s just a misunderstanding could be true as well. Since the plot of that time travel episode, whenever it may be in the new season, apparently involves Fry and Leela having a date, perhaps that means that the process of the two of them remembering their genuine feelings from ITWGY won’t take too long to complete. But it’s really up to the writers to sort it all out, and I imagine that they will make it work, because another reset would be absolutely inexcusable.

Cheers! And aye, I happily concede Cookies' argument - my main point is I doubt any continuation of the L+F relationship arc would be quick or simple; or if it starts out that way, there'd be a middle section where things became slow and difficult (prior to a happy ending tongue). Straightforward relationship progress isn't that satisfying in a story, so I'm assuming that L/F 'ship fans'll find their nerves twanged a few more times yet smile The entire crew except Fry is currently dead, for instance, but we're happily treating that as a minor inconvenience (!), so I'm guessing the writers have a lot more good stuff to blast us with...
FistfulOAwesome

Starship Captain
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« Reply #11 on: 10-08-2009 23:09 »
« Last Edit on: 10-17-2009 20:50 »

No-one argues that Fry is a good guy, he's got a heart of gold, but that ain't the same as maturity. He's maturing, but mature? I don't see it. Look at his behaviour at Lars and Leela's wedding. If that ain't being childish, I don't know what is. Arguably his behaviour in ITWGY is more mature, but it's an ongoing process (and you could argue thats one of the things that Leela responded to in ITWGY.)

To be fair, at the end of BBS, he gave her up for the sake of her happiness, sacrificing his. That's a very mature thing to do. But really, that ties into why Fry acted childish in episodes like 314, 415, and BBS: Reset and focus on Fry.

The writers kept resetting Fry/Leela's relationship between episodes, so they often had to come up with new ways for Fry to gain some favor, then have it not affect a future episode (you know, like how staying with her in 412 apparently did nothing to sway her from still thinking of him as immature or noncommittal in 415). So along with their relationship, any maturity Fry gained was reset as well.

This ties into the romance of F/L being majority focused on Fry. The only episodes to give Leela a real fair shake on it were 412 and ITWGY (a little 314 (hell, that's the episode where "Is Fry mature enough for Leela?" came into shipper play), but that one still leaves us feeling for Fry, rather than both of them, and a little 410 (but it's the B-story to Fry's A (though this one is mighty appreciated and we could have done with more like it))). The likely reason they kept it on Fry is that it's a little harder to write episodes about a romantic relationship between two characters without making the audience wonder what their reservations are. Being that they're all guys (the writers) it was easier for them to have the guy be the chaser and the girl the chasee (is that any right?).

My point is that Fry could have been mature right in S4 (and he is frequently), but the writers use of the reset button kept this from being a constant character trait, and left it as something they pulled out when they needed it. Considering the series is being "reborn", I hope the writers leave that facet of Fry's character in the "No-Reset" zone, so that he can grow as a character more than he's been allowed to in the past.

However, having to chase Leela for 7-ish years--without her caving in the slightest--doesn't exactly do wonders for garnering sympathy for her.

I'm sorry but thats sounding awfully like all the she-must-love-him-because-she-ought-to arguments and is just lazy thinking IMO. Ok, maybe you were making an objective point about what you think other people's opinions will be, but it wasn't terribly clear if it was.

If she doesn't remember anything that happened previously it won't affect my opinion of her in the least since she clearly isn't to blame for her condition... but, in anycase, how long will it take for her to come to the same conclusion, given the same evidence, again? It's only a matter of time. The more that she remembers closer to her declaration, the sooner it will come.

Gorks (I'm nicknaming you this whether you like it or hate it, Gorky) has mentioned this before, but it's not so much that Leela should love Fry, as that the writers focus on Fry along with resetting has made Leela look bad. We know she loves the guy, as does she, but they never let her mature in that direction. Love is a two-way street, and the writers never let her cross it. It's always Fry making the attempt, with Leela rarely ever so much as budging. One of the reasons The Sting is such a well-loved episode is that it's one of the only ones that actually lets us see the 'ship from Leela's perspective. Otherwise, she appears as an emotional coward, constantly backing off even when her own feelings tell her otherwise.

Similar to Fry, any progress is reverted to maintain the status quo. Now, there's nothing really wrong with having Leela be the focus of the chase, and there's nothing really wrong with Leela being unsure. But couldn't the writers have at least had Leela let the guy down easy more often? Couldn't they have had more moments focused on her thoughts on a relationship, rather than keeping it at Fry? Basically, couldn't they do a little more not to make her look like a hold-out for no reason (314 is the only one to give a reason, with others really just begging you to remember the maturity thing from 314)?

This new season is one where I hope that the writers realize that a little more continuity wouldn't be a bad thing.

It's too bad that the relationship got pretty well ignored after BBS up to the last 30 seconds of ITWGY, but I guess that's like crying over spilt milk now....

You might want to watch ITWGY with a closer look whenever Fry or/and Leela is/are on-screen. That episode pays much time to the ship throughout. Hell, it's one of the best at handling it, with equal time payed to both characters, even making it a heavy focus of their motivations and beliefs. You probably didn't notice it because it's not as over-the-top as in previous episodes.

                             REGARDING MARCUS'S AND TEDWARD'S IDEAS

You know, I have to say I like what both of you came up with. If a few fans can pump out such great ideas off the top of their heads, then I remain hopeful that what the writers came up with should blow us all away.

Edit: This is a great article about why the relationship of Jim and Pam on The Office (and their wedding tonight) was a plus for the show, and enhanced the characters. I think it applies to Fry and Leela (and detractors or people who aren't sure of their relationship) as well- http://www.nj.com/entertainment/tv/index.ssf/2009/10/the_office_why_jim_and_pams_we.html
CookiesOnTheFloor
Bending Unit
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« Reply #12 on: 10-09-2009 00:36 »

However, having to chase Leela for 7-ish years--without her caving in the slightest--doesn't exactly do wonders for garnering sympathy for her. The reason I think Fry and Leela should hook up as soon as possible is because it's becoming so contrived and unbelievable to keep them apart (particularly after the "I love you"s at the end of ItWGY)--not to mention hazardous to the audience's respect and/or admiration for Leela. Flat-out rejecting Fry doesn't work anymore, same as flat-out pursuing Leela with the singular attempt to "make her love me" is growing stale.

Hmmm.

Chasing her for 7 years makes him look rather pathetic and obsessed IMHO, but there you go. And that all ties in with his remark about 'make her love me'. You don't make someone love you!

It's too bad that the relationship got pretty well ignored after BBS up to the last 30 seconds of ITWGY, but I guess that's like crying over spilt milk now....

I understand perfectly about the "obsessed" observation...but I don't know that I think it made Fry pathetic. The gallant, courageous side of his nature appeared mostly when dealing with Leela. That was so great to see; to quote from "Shrek", Fry has layers! If Leela had been in any way deliberately abusive towards Fry, and still he persisted, then that would have made him pathetic IMO.

As for the "reset": I think that if, as a result of the rebirth, Leela honestly doesn't remember her declaration of love, and moreover, doesn't completely remember WHY she said it, then any doubt and hesitation on her part are still understandable and should spare her any fans' ire for not yielding to Fry immediately. (Although nothing will placate some of the more extreme shippers out there, I suppose; a lot of them just can't understand why Leela doesn't throw herself at Fry's feet just because he's so obsessed with her. They don't understand Leela's personality; they're just projecting themselves into the situation in her place. God help those people with real-life relationships if that's true!  wink ).
coldangel

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #13 on: 10-09-2009 02:25 »

The reason I think Fry and Leela should hook up as soon as possible is because it's becoming so contrived and unbelievable to keep them apart

Yes, who ever heard of a cartoon being contrived and unbelievable.
lilkitten29

Starship Captain
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« Reply #14 on: 10-09-2009 06:03 »

David X. Cohen Q & A at Florida's Animation Supercon:
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwO43cVTzCU

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXkv44kwPnE

Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZWgYrZJ6cM

Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ey1AQn7nHFA

Part 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4XKLv9rsFI

Part 6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy2bJ7bgogk
Go-a-Green-a

Bending Unit
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« Reply #15 on: 10-09-2009 06:30 »
« Last Edit on: 10-09-2009 06:31 »

However, having to chase Leela for 7-ish years--without her caving in the slightest--doesn't exactly do wonders for garnering sympathy for her. The reason I think Fry and Leela should hook up as soon as possible is because it's becoming so contrived and unbelievable to keep them apart (particularly after the "I love you"s at the end of ItWGY)--not to mention hazardous to the audience's respect and/or admiration for Leela. Flat-out rejecting Fry doesn't work anymore, same as flat-out pursuing Leela with the singular attempt to "make her love me" is growing stale.


As for the "reset": I think that if, as a result of the rebirth, Leela honestly doesn't remember her declaration of love, and moreover, doesn't completely remember WHY she said it, then any doubt and hesitation on her part are still understandable and should spare her any fans' ire for not yielding to Fry immediately. (Although nothing will placate some of the more extreme shippers out there, I suppose; a lot of them just can't understand why Leela doesn't throw herself at Fry's feet just because he's so obsessed with her. They don't understand Leela's personality; they're just projecting themselves into the situation in her place.

Yeah, he is kind of obsessed. And I agree that there might be some doubt with Leela but my thought was that the whole Fry chasing her thing would be replaced by Fry keeping her as long as they don't compleatly screw it up and have him become TOO obsessed and Leela loose all interest.
Freako

Urban Legend
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« Reply #16 on: 10-09-2009 07:08 »
« Last Edit on: 10-09-2009 07:12 by Futurama_Freak1 »


Finally, something to do other than sit here twiddling my thumbs.

Around the first questions I think he made it abundantly clear that the crew's heads are still alive.
Go-a-Green-a

Bending Unit
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« Reply #17 on: 10-09-2009 07:38 »
« Last Edit on: 10-09-2009 07:39 »

The heads can be alive but just not in a state that alows them to continue like that. As someone said before, in BBS Hermes said that his head was dying, it would be a bit of a cheat if they had their heads perfectly alive in 6ACV01.
Freako

Urban Legend
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« Reply #18 on: 10-09-2009 07:42 »

Well they're probably hooked up to something or other that keeps them in a vegetated state.
Go-a-Green-a

Bending Unit
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« Reply #19 on: 10-09-2009 08:03 »

It's probably some invention the Proffessor forgot he had hooked them up to....
FistfulOAwesome

Starship Captain
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« Reply #20 on: 10-09-2009 09:39 »
« Last Edit on: 10-09-2009 09:41 »

This is sort-of live written, as I watch DXC's Q&A.

Freak1, I wouldn't say that DXC specifically said that their heads are alive. He really was just mentioning that death is not the same problem it is now. I think he was just setting up for the crew's rebirths, and being vague so as not to ruin the surprise. Admittedly, this may just be me not wanting to see the crew as talking heads on skeletons (seems like a gag from Merry Melodies) and twisting his words to dull my fears.

I've mentioned this in the previous thread, but I don't want their rebirths to be easy or this episode to be played purely for laughs. This is a heavy situation, and I want it treated as such. My dream version of this episode (officially called Rebirth now) would end with the rebirths of the crew, but since that's radical and likely not what will happen, I hope for at least the end of the first act (though preferably the second).

I hope that one day DXC snaps and leaps from the stage and punches a fan (like Axle Rose did) for mentioning the DVD movies and their general drop in quality (ITWGY excluded). I love hearing the fans who go to conventions not kissing the writers asses and telling them directly how they feel. Call it tough love, but if they keep getting reminded they'll have to face their mistakes and not repeat them (and we don't want any mistakes in this new season, do we?).

I do like hearing that Matt was involved in the first two episodes. Tedward mentioned this near the top of the page, but since the second episode features Zapp and Leela stuck on an Eden-like planet, it seems like it should carry off from the first one, considering that Adam and Eve were born naked, and Zapp and Leela will obviously be naked from their resurrections from the first episode. It seems like a really good idea to connect them, and Matt being involved in Rebirth and the second episode seems to suggest that they may be.

I really liked his bit on fan connections to Sci-Fi shows. He says that he eventually came to think as the crew of the Enterprise as real people whose adventures he was lucky enough to witness. I feel the same way of Futurama.

They're keeping HD/Widescreen? Sweet!

I still think they should produce David's original first episode, since it still sounds like a great one. But, yeah, I have warmed up to Matt's idea, which has potential to be special (I hope that potential wasn't wasted), where David's would have been (and should be) just another episode.

Johnny D's the best!

Totally agree with David on the deeper episodes like Luck of the Fryrish and Godfellas. The one I was most excited for before that clip from Rebirth was the time-travel episode.

Double Fing-Longer!? Oh snap!

Alright, fun stuff.
Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #21 on: 10-09-2009 12:22 »

They're keeping HD/Widescreen? Sweet!

Told you.
Juliet

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #22 on: 10-09-2009 13:34 »

The heads can be alive but just not in a state that alows them to continue like that. As someone said before, in BBS Hermes said that his head was dying, it would be a bit of a cheat if they had their heads perfectly alive in 6ACV01.

What about head in the jars?
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #23 on: 10-09-2009 14:26 »

What about head in the jars?
For some reason the Professor couldn't do that this time, and that's much better imo. Maybe something in the crash destroyed the heads, like the bee poison in The Sting. Or maybe the Professor was unconcious long enough for the others to die... I am REALLY looking forward to this episode!
Freako

Urban Legend
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« Reply #24 on: 10-09-2009 14:33 »

I'm sure they're fine.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #25 on: 10-09-2009 16:11 »
« Last Edit on: 10-09-2009 16:13 »

However, having to chase Leela for 7-ish years--without her caving in the slightest--doesn't exactly do wonders for garnering sympathy for her.

I'm sorry but thats sounding awfully like all the she-must-love-him-because-she-ought-to arguments and is just lazy thinking IMO. Ok, maybe you were making an objective point about what you think other people's opinions will be, but it wasn't terribly clear if it was.

If she doesn't remember anything that happened previously it won't affect my opinion of her in the least since she clearly isn't to blame for her condition... but, in anycase, how long will it take for her to come to the same conclusion, given the same evidence, again? It's only a matter of time. The more that she remembers closer to her declaration, the sooner it will come.

Gorks (I'm nicknaming you this whether you like it or hate it, Gorky) has mentioned this before, but it's not so much that Leela should love Fry, as that the writers focus on Fry along with resetting has made Leela look bad. We know she loves the guy, as does she, but they never let her mature in that direction. Love is a two-way street, and the writers never let her cross it. It's always Fry making the attempt, with Leela rarely ever so much as budging. One of the reasons The Sting is such a well-loved episode is that it's one of the only ones that actually lets us see the 'ship from Leela's perspective. Otherwise, she appears as an emotional coward, constantly backing off even when her own feelings tell her otherwise.

Similar to Fry, any progress is reverted to maintain the status quo. Now, there's nothing really wrong with having Leela be the focus of the chase, and there's nothing really wrong with Leela being unsure. But couldn't the writers have at least had Leela let the guy down easy more often? Couldn't they have had more moments focused on her thoughts on a relationship, rather than keeping it at Fry? Basically, couldn't they do a little more not to make her look like a hold-out for no reason (314 is the only one to give a reason, with others really just begging you to remember the maturity thing from 314)?

Yup, that's a perfectly acceptable nickname, FoA; I've certainly been called worse.

And yeah, you basically rebutted Chug a Bug in the same way that I intended to. My comment was based on observation of a number of fans 'round these parts (most of them jaded former-shippers) who really believe that Leela is an unfeeling bitch. I don't agree with that diagnosis; I just think that the writers haven't done much to develop what, exactly, her feelings for Fry are--and that's what makes people view a lot of her actions in seasons four and "five" as pretty cold.

The reason the end of ItWGY is so effective, then, is because the writers finally spelled out, in plain English, Leela's feelings for Fry. Not only is their relationship developed mutually throughout the movie (I agree with FoA that there's a certain maturity to the handling of their relationship in ItWGY that was absent from the other movies and most of the series), but the declaration of love is sincere.

My concern, then (and, granted, it's a fairly minute one), is that the writers are going to reset the emotional arc of ItWGY. And, if people thought Leela was a bitch before--when her feelings weren't so concrete, weren't verbalized or pinned-down--then they're definitely not going to be fans of her if things return to the make-Leela-love-me stasis of the series and first three movies.

And yes, Fry's attempts to make Leela love him are a bit troublesome, but they're not stalker-ish or pathetic by any means. In fact, his persistence is endearing, and the respect he ultimately shows for Leela's feelings (towards the end of BBS in particular, where he decides that he wants what will make her happy) drives home the point that he is a good guy with a big heart.
CookiesOnTheFloor
Bending Unit
***
« Reply #26 on: 10-09-2009 18:28 »

For my part, I don't find Fry's efforts to "make Leela love him" troublesome at all, because of the approach he takes. He's not some creepy violence-prone stalker, after all. He hasn't gone off the deep end, nor is he likely to. He's lovesick, but with backbone. He's nearly given up a couple of times, so he has his limits; but the affection remains and, given the smallest glimmer of encouragement, he's willing to try again. His phrase of "make Leela love me" is just so...Fry. It's just the truth that he's unable to varnish with more subtle, romantic phrasing. Totally in character if you ask me.

I really get ticked at the idea that Leela's a "bitch" for resisting. Come on! She made it clear to Zoidberg - she loves Fry's boyish charm, but hates his childishness. That is totally in character for her. She's strong, competent, willing to take reasonable risks, and no-nonsense. She has to pull more than her share of the weight because she's stuck with two slackers as crewmates (Bender and Fry). Why shouldn't she resent that and use it as a count against Fry? I see too many cartoons these days in which a female is hooked up with a worthless idiot male (Marge and Homer, Lois and Peter, hell, even Cosmo and Wanda from Fairly Odd Parents). And the female has to put up with a HELL of a lot, and I don't know about you, but sometimes it gets to the point where I can't help asking (even though it's a cartoon) "Why is she with HIM? What the hell is the appeal?" In extreme cases it interferes with my enjoyment of the cartoon. Now, in fairness to Fry, he's about a billion times better than Peter Griffin or Cosmo or even Homer (who I like, BTW; he's as big-hearted as Fry. But he does cause Marge an endless amount of grief, and unfortunately he's the original that inferior copies have been made from). But just the same, I think it makes perfect sense that Leela isn't allowing herself to be pushed into something she's not sure of. Remember the episode "Bicyclops Built For Two"? She got herself into a relationship with what appeared to be the perfect man - and he turned into a boor the moment she gave in to him. And Fry too can be boorish. Given her rotten luck with past boyfriends, I think the girl should be cut some slack.  After all, she's not cruel to Fry, not deliberately. She doesn't deserve the title of "bitch" just because she's not a pushover. JMHO.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #27 on: 10-09-2009 18:40 »

Oh, I agree with you completely. I'm just saying that a lot of ex-shippers have some Leela-hate going on, and it seems to be based in what they perceive as uneven characterization (and what I perceive as a lack of scope in the writing to include her feelings towards the ship).

As far as speculation goes: Am I the only one who's not looking forward to this Amy/Bender episode? It just seems like forced social commentary, the sort of thing you might see on The Simpsons. I mean, I think it's a funny concept--although I'm worried about how it will affect Kif and Amy's relationship--and the topic is definitely relevant, but the human/robot pairing might not have been the most futuristic analogue to gay marriage. It's already been covered, to an extent, in "I Dated a Robot", so I guess I think the premise itself seems a bit tired.
Marcus
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #28 on: 10-09-2009 18:57 »
« Last Edit on: 10-09-2009 19:02 »

I'm thinking/hoping the Amy/Bender one's an example of - how can I put it - a light relief episode, after the slightly heavy going of the L/F morass and the formal 'rebirth' bits are done. I prefer to re-watch the episodes that are more straightforward sitcom and feature less soap opera-ish stuff than the more 'intense' ones, I have to admit. A balance between episode styles in the new series would only be a good thing.
Jezzem

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #29 on: 10-09-2009 19:10 »

Wait. Am I the only one who, when he watches Futurama, has to watch every episode/movie whether it's good or not and in chronological order? Or am I just strange?
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #30 on: 10-09-2009 19:12 »

I don't expect--or want--for the episode to be heavy by any means, but I want it to be funny for the right reasons. I mean, an episode like "Bend Her" is hilarious, and it manages to be so without wrecking the characters and/or making me hate them. There's nothing wrong with wacky plots--like you point out, some of the best episodes are those that are just plain goofy--but taking something that a certain number of fans are invested in (like, say, Kif and Amy's relationship) and selling it out for the sake of that story is a no-no for me.

And speaking of "Bend Her", I think it's a perfect example of that balance in tone that you're talking about. I mean, it comes in the middle of season four--a year in which the show was prone to more melodramatic or flat-out sad stories--and it works because it's so different from a lot of what surrounds it. Futurama is capable of so much as a series--it has a lot of potential, both comedic and dramatic--and I agree that it should maximize that potential by telling stories that vary in seriousness and theme and tone. I mean, the show is ultimately a comedy, but I appreciate that the characters have very distinct personalities and traits that lend themselves well to all styles of story.
Svip

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #31 on: 10-09-2009 19:13 »

Wait. Am I the only one who, when he watches Futurama, has to watch every episode/movie whether it's good or not and in chronological order? Or am I just strange?

No, me too.  We are strange together.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #32 on: 10-09-2009 19:15 »
« Last Edit on: 10-09-2009 19:16 »

I'll watch whatever episode happens to strike my fancy (or, sometimes, I'll deliberately rewatch an episode that I didn't like the first time I saw it, to see if my opinion's changed) if I'm in the mood for some Futurama, but when I first got the DVD sets I had to watch them straight through in production order. Perhaps in the weeks leading up to the season six premiere, I'll hold myself a nice little chronological marathon, Jezzem/Svip-style.
Tedward

Professor
*
« Reply #33 on: 10-09-2009 19:58 »

That was quite an interesting Q & A!

Freak1, I wouldn't say that DXC specifically said that their heads are alive. He really was just mentioning that death is not the same problem it is now. I think he was just setting up for the crew's rebirths, and being vague so as not to ruin the surprise. Admittedly, this may just be me not wanting to see the crew as talking heads on skeletons (seems like a gag from Merry Melodies) and twisting his words to dull my fears.

I've mentioned this in the previous thread, but I don't want their rebirths to be easy or this episode to be played purely for laughs. This is a heavy situation, and I want it treated as such. My dream version of this episode (officially called Rebirth now) would end with the rebirths of the crew, but since that's radical and likely not what will happen, I hope for at least the end of the first act (though preferably the second).

I feel the same way, as I’ve said before. Again, I agree that the crew will obviously be back to normal (or something very close to normal…) by the end of the episode. It’s just that it needs to take a little bit of time and have some sort of struggle involved with it. I too would hope that the crew’s regaining of consciousness or whatever it may be happens at least after an act, since as has been said, having the heads just start talking right from the outset would be disappointingly silly. If it’s only their bodies that have to be remade (and not, well, their lives), then what would be the point of the crash? I suppose the memory issue, particularly involving the Fry-Leela ‘ship, could be what is actually having to be reborn in addition to their bodies, but then we get into the whole reset issue again. Again, I hope that the episode can give the relationship and this bold rebirth idea the respect they deserve.

I'll watch whatever episode happens to strike my fancy (or, sometimes, I'll deliberately rewatch an episode that I didn't like the first time I saw it, to see if my opinion's changed) if I'm in the mood for some Futurama, but when I first got the DVD sets I had to watch them straight through in production order. Perhaps in the weeks leading up to the season six premiere, I'll hold myself a nice little chronological marathon, Jezzem/Svip-style.

I'm the same way. I sometimes watch just whatever episode I feel like, but I do value the production order and will certainly be watching everything in order at some point again.
Marcus
Starship Captain
****
« Reply #34 on: 10-09-2009 20:14 »
« Last Edit on: 10-09-2009 20:17 »

@Gorky: Futurama's always going to have humour in it - that's sort of the point! - but each episode can have different emphases: elements of flatout humour, scifi, 'epic plot', character development, shippy stuff and so on combine differently in each episode to make a really great, memorable series of the show! (or else a BWABB if the alchemy is... off the boil...)

I'm just thinking about the initial few episodes - if there's going to be heartrending melodrama in the L/F bit and the rebirth sections, last thing you'd want is a pathos laden Amy/Kif ep straight after; it'd be comedy to slit your wrists to tongue

But no, I agree with you - you don't want to bugger up Amy and Kif without very good cause; a character-driven comedy can't keep changing its characters' motivations every 5 minutes. But there's so many ways an Amy/Bender 'relationship' could go (hentaibothentaibothentaibot.. .), and so few of them are serious... I'd be optimistic it won't mess up the Amy/Kif ship for its fans smile

*Disclaimer* I watch a lot of Futurama when I'm drawing and want to screen capture a background or whatever for reference; I usually end up watching the whole episode!
FistfulOAwesome

Starship Captain
****
« Reply #35 on: 10-09-2009 20:20 »

Their are certain episodes I have blacklisted that I don't intend to watch again (I've watched them enough times to know my opinion won't change). There are also certain episodes I don't watch often, not because they're bad, but because they aren't very good. I'd say of the current 76 episodes of Futurama, I have 2 blacklisted (you guys can probably guess them), and like 10-15 on the "meh" list (watched depending on whether I feel the good sections are worth the badness/boringness of those certain episodes).

I intend to watch all the episodes I feel like watching (the non-blacklisted/meh ones) 2 weeks before the S6 premiere. That's just enough time to reacquaint myself with the series, but also enough time to feel fresh about the new episode. After all, I don't want to spoil the feeling of new Futurama.

I don't expect--or want--for the episode to be heavy by any means, but I want it to be funny for the right reasons. I mean, an episode like "Bend Her" is hilarious, and it manages to be so without wrecking the characters and/or making me hate them. There's nothing wrong with wacky plots--like you point out, some of the best episodes are those that are just plain goofy--but taking something that a certain number of fans are invested in (like, say, Kif and Amy's relationship) and selling it out for the sake of that story is a no-no for me.

And speaking of "Bend Her", I think it's a perfect example of that balance in tone that you're talking about. I mean, it comes in the middle of season four--a year in which the show was prone to more melodramatic or flat-out sad stories--and it works because it's so different from a lot of what surrounds it. Futurama is capable of so much as a series--it has a lot of potential, both comedic and dramatic--and I agree that it should maximize that potential by telling stories that vary in seriousness and theme and tone. I mean, the show is ultimately a comedy, but I appreciate that the characters have very distinct personalities and traits that lend themselves well to all styles of story.

Nice post, Gorky! I'm in complete agreement. A mix of the wacky and deep episodes of Futurama is vital to keeping the show fresh. Too much wacky and it becomes fluff. Too much "deep", and it becomes too draining. Together it feels just right.

Also, good bit on not selling-out parts of the characters for the sakes of jokes/stories. Most of the times the series has done that I saw it as resets, and the plots/jokes have usually not been worth it/would have worked just as well or better without ignoring character traits. There is a difference between setting aside a trait because it's not necessary for the story and just plain ignoring it exists. Hopefully the writers keep the latter to a minimal (or non-existent).
Aki

Professor
*
« Reply #36 on: 10-09-2009 21:09 »

Wait. Am I the only one who, when he watches Futurama, has to watch every episode/movie whether it's good or not and in chronological order? Or am I just strange?
No, I usually do that to. Or at least I pick a season I haven't seen for a while, and watch it from beginning to end.
MightyBooshFan91

Bending Unit
***
« Reply #37 on: 10-09-2009 21:43 »

Wait. Am I the only one who, when he watches Futurama, has to watch every episode/movie whether it's good or not and in chronological order? Or am I just strange?
No, I usually do that to. Or at least I pick a season I haven't seen for a while, and watch it from beginning to end.

I have to do that with Season 2....I only have it on video not DVD
saved myself £20 though....
Jezzem

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #38 on: 10-09-2009 22:36 »

I'll watch whatever episode happens to strike my fancy (or, sometimes, I'll deliberately rewatch an episode that I didn't like the first time I saw it, to see if my opinion's changed) if I'm in the mood for some Futurama, but when I first got the DVD sets I had to watch them straight through in production order. Perhaps in the weeks leading up to the season six premiere, I'll hold myself a nice little chronological marathon, Jezzem/Svip-style.

I don't watch it in a "marathon" it's more like I'll start watching from the first episode whenever I have some free time and then stopping it when I have to do stuff like go to sleep or whatnot and then when I have some more free time I'll start watching again from whatever episode I was up to. In fact I do that with every TV show/series of movies I have on DVD.
Aki

Professor
*
« Reply #39 on: 10-09-2009 23:09 »
« Last Edit on: 10-09-2009 23:14 »

I'll watch whatever episode happens to strike my fancy (or, sometimes, I'll deliberately rewatch an episode that I didn't like the first time I saw it, to see if my opinion's changed) if I'm in the mood for some Futurama, but when I first got the DVD sets I had to watch them straight through in production order. Perhaps in the weeks leading up to the season six premiere, I'll hold myself a nice little chronological marathon, Jezzem/Svip-style.

I don't watch it in a "marathon" it's more like I'll start watching from the first episode whenever I have some free time and then stopping it when I have to do stuff like go to sleep or whatnot and then when I have some more free time I'll start watching again from whatever episode I was up to. In fact I do that with every TV show/series of movies I have on DVD.
Yes. Ofcourse. I have watched the entire seasons 3-4 and the four movies in a row once (what does it take, twelve hours?), but generally I just watched them when I feel like it, mostly two or three episodes at the time and then I pick it up again later.

But I AM going to have a real marathon with the entire series just before I watch the beginning of the next season! I'm just trying to find some people nerdy enough to accompany me wink

Edit: I really hate how PEEL practically shuts down at 23:00 local time. What time is it? frown
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