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Pickles
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« Reply #720 on: 07-18-2011 00:59 »

I still can't see what's wrong. I can see why you think it's wrong but I don't agree. I didn't find the end convenient, sure it was a bit rushed because of time but to me Amy didn't return to Kif because he transformed into a "bad boy" on a motorcycle, but because he manned up and took control of the situation. Sure the episode is not perfect, but certainly deserves no mention in the Worse Episode Ever thread, although the same goes to pretty much all other episodes after that Holiday Spectacular travesty.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #721 on: 07-18-2011 01:02 »

Fair enough, Pickles. You're entitled to your opinion, and I hope you don't feel like we're all ganging up on you. "Proposition Infinity" just bugs me for the reasons already mentioned, and though I wouldn't say it's the worst episode ever, it certainly isn't among my favorites. (To me, "worst" is synonymous with "most boring," which is why I can't stand "Where the Buggalo Roam." I can forgive some plot holes or problems with characterization if the episode is uproariously funny or something, but PI unfortunately does not fit that bill, either. So it's just a plain ol' mediocre episode to me.)
winna

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« Reply #722 on: 07-18-2011 01:03 »

Amy is pretty hot in that episode though.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #723 on: 07-18-2011 01:10 »
« Last Edit on: 07-18-2011 01:17 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

Am I the only one who really enjoyed Proposition Infinity?   After three extremely disappointing episodes (Rebirth, Attack of the Killer App and In A Gadda Da Leela), I was giving up on Futurama, but PI felt like a hilariously solid episode.   I think Bender's near sociopathic treatment of Amy in the first act of that episode had by far some of the funniest lines in Season 6. While I was able to relate to a lot of the issues in that episode, I still liked it more for the genuinely funny lines, rather then the social commentry on people who are unfortunately, not only all to real, but carry a lot of political power in America.  You may laugh at things like the Gathering Storm advert, but the people who made it are responsible for a lot of anti gay laws being passed, and a lot of gay rights being quashed.   But we don't watch Futurama for the social commentry, we watch it because its funny.  But personally, I think PI is one of my favorite episodes, because I found it hilarious.  Too bad it was followed by Duh Vinchi Code, which I did think was probably my least favorite episode ever.   When I first watched it, I don't think I was amused once.  Which is strange, because even Mars University, which was originally my most hated episode (in the Uk, it seemed to be the only episode that was allowed to be played in the Uk for a long, long time) had moments which I enjoyed.

As for Bend Her, I think that may be a contender for my most favorite episode.  Its certainly my most favorite Bender episode (well, either that or Love and Rocket).   I think Coilette is hysterical, and I was sorry she had such a pitiful reapperance in Neutopia.   

30percentIronChef isn't a favorite episode, but I will enjoy it when its on.  Its a solid, highly enjoyable episode, and everything a good Futurama is.  My favorite line is when the japanese girl tries to interview Elzar and says in a cheerful voice:
"Will Hiroki-san, he asks what business it was of mine, and conjectured that my mother was a prostitute."
winna

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« Reply #724 on: 07-18-2011 01:16 »

I enjoyed PI for some strange inexplicable reasons I can't properly explain.  It was a well paced, episode with funny bits in there... I thought the ending was rushed as was pointed out already, but I felt it was a good episode over meh after having watching it a few times.

Mars University is a hilarious episode btw.... frown
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #725 on: 07-18-2011 01:21 »

I enjoyed PI for some strange inexplicable reasons I can't properly explain.  It was a well paced, episode with funny bits in there... I thought the ending was rushed as was pointed out already, but I felt it was a good episode over meh after having watching it a few times.

Mars University is a hilarious episode btw.... frown
Agreed, the ending was the weakest part about it.   It felt very tacked on, but lets face it, Bender gets sick of every woman he's dated extremely quickly and soon forgets about her completely, whether its Lucy Liu's head, Lynne the Suicide Booth, the Countess, the Planet Express Ship... so really while the ending was the weakest part of the episode, it didn't feel out of character for Bender.    All of his relationships are extremely intense and over very quickly (he goes from grieving the death of the Countess to binning his one memento of her a few hours later, upon finding out its fake).   What about dating Amy is so different from dating Lucy Liu's head?
winna

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« Reply #726 on: 07-18-2011 01:23 »

It's not Bender's characterization that I had a problem with.  It's Kif's actually, and how easily that played out.
Gorky

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« Reply #727 on: 07-18-2011 01:24 »

You may laugh at things like the Gathering Storm advert, but the people who made it are responsible for a lot of anti gay laws being passed, and a lot of gay rights being quashed.

Oh, I've seen the real-life ad, and it's disturbing as all hell. I'm just saying that the writers did a great job capturing its creepy essence while at the same time lampooning it. I agree with the episode's political/cultural message of acceptance and equality and all that jazz, but I think that is somewhat undermined by how heavy-handed and dismissive of the other side of the debate it is. I think it's always a mistake when writers take too overt a position in an episode like this (even though, like I said, I do side with the writers on the gay marriage debate), and that's what bothers me. The episode fails as social satire for the most part, and it also does some damage to Amy's character.

What about dating Amy is so different from dating Lucy Liu's head?

Amy is an established, regular character who was in a committed, long-term relationship with another regular character before "Proposition Infinity." Lucy Liu was just the Guest Star of the Week. It might not be different from Bender's perspective, but from a storytelling perspective it is.

And I've never really liked "Mars University," I guess because Fry is such a douchebag throughout, and Guenter is more annoying than sympathetic (though "I tried to wear a hat on my butt!" is, admittedly, a hilariously pathetic line). That's another episode that fails the "Is it mostly boring?" test, though it has its moments.
winna

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« Reply #728 on: 07-18-2011 01:27 »

C'mon!!!!!!  that episode totally had the best C story out of everything ever with the housing on campus literally falling apart throughout the episode!  Hilarious!

And of course the Animal House references..... the Animal House references!!!!
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #729 on: 07-18-2011 01:29 »
« Last Edit on: 07-18-2011 01:37 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

It's not Bender's characterization that I had a problem with.  It's Kif's actually, and how easily that played out.

Really?  I thought Kif was hilarious in this episode.  "Pardon me language Amy, but you really ruffle my petticoats!"  I think the episode did a good job of addressing all the problems Kif and Amy would probably have in their relationship, since Kif is a pretty wimpy and effeminate character, and Amy is the adventurous slutty heiress who could have any boy she wants, so their breakup felt pretty realistic to me.  

I will agree with you: the ending was wrapped up way, way, waaaaaay too easily.  While Kif manning up and taking control of the situation to win Amy back felt great, it was too convenient.  They should have had a scene with Kif maybe doing something to win Amy back, buying a leather jacket, taking a self defense class.  Set up a Chekov's Gunman, instead of it feeling like a complete deus ex machina/reset button.

And Mars University probably gets a lot of hate for me for two reasons:
For quite some time in the UK (several years), you would turn on Sky 1, and 9 times out of 10, Mars University would be the episode.  It quickly made me sick of it.

Gunther.  He's just a deeply unlikable character.  He just goes out of a way to be nasty to Fry, even after the latter tries to be friends.  It's like watching Good Will Hunting, only having the smug rich kid win every time and gloating about it.  



O
Quote
h, I've seen the real-life ad, and it's disturbing as all hell. I'm just saying that the writers did a great job capturing its creepy essence while at the same time lampooning it. I agree with the episode's political/cultural message of acceptance and equality and all that jazz, but I think that is somewhat undermined by how heavy-handed and dismissive of the other side of the debate it is. I think it's always a mistake when writers take too overt a position in an episode like this (even though, like I said, I do side with the writers on the gay marriage debate), and that's what bothers me. The episode fails as social satire for the most part, and it also does some damage to Amy's character.

I agree, and I feel every side of the debate should be represented, but I really cant imagine any way you can be sympathetic to side of the anti gay rights brigade, any more you can be sympathetic or non-dismissive of white supremacists or NAMBLA.  At the end of the day you are talking about people who are not content to make their own choices, they want to take away the human rights of people they've never met, for reasons that are down to "because god says so" and "I think its icky" and "theyre all child molesters."  I think the only people who need sympathy and understanding are the christians who unfortunately also get tarred with the same brush as the psychotic fundies.   Perhaps you're right, maybe the episode should have shown how robosexual marriage doesn't affect any of the non robosexual marriages in any way.  Still, its hard to argue with a campaign that is based on ancient scripture and plain old fearmongering.
Gorky

Space Pope
****
« Reply #730 on: 07-18-2011 01:35 »

C'mon!!!!!!  that episode totally had the best C story out of everything ever with the housing on campus literally falling apart throughout the episode!  Hilarious!

And of course the Animal House references..... the Animal House references!!!!

The sign constantly falling down is one of my favorite sight gags ever, I'll grant you that. And, honestly, this episode probably doesn't do much for me because I've never seen Animal House*, so any references there fall totally flat for me (beyond the glimmer of recognition I feel--"Oh, hey, this must be from that movie"--in the Robot House scenes).

*While we're at it, I've never seen Star Trek, either. I am so culturally deprived!
winna

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« Reply #731 on: 07-18-2011 01:36 »

I didn't have a problem with Kif through out the episode.... in fact the first act hit up characterization well.  It was just the deus ex machina/reset button that I didn't like about the episode.  I can easily forgive it though, because it's totally because they didn't have time to better resolve it, and they tried going out with a bang even with an original hit song.  Note, that I'm not someone who hates this episode though... there's always ghost and horse!

I can see being irritated by Mars University if you saw it repeatedly.  It's one of the few episodes I didn't see over and over again when the show was first airing, so it a more scaping quality associated in my memory.  I thought it was a fun episode though.... and like, scenes with Fry in college?  Hilarious!  Wonton burrito meals!  Go whitefish!
winna

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« Reply #732 on: 07-18-2011 01:39 »

C'mon!!!!!!  that episode totally had the best C story out of everything ever with the housing on campus literally falling apart throughout the episode!  Hilarious!

And of course the Animal House references..... the Animal House references!!!!

The sign constantly falling down is one of my favorite sight gags ever, I'll grant you that. And, honestly, this episode probably doesn't do much for me because I've never seen Animal House*, so any references there fall totally flat for me (beyond the glimmer of recognition I feel--"Oh, hey, this must be from that movie"--in the Robot House scenes).

*While we're at it, I've never seen Star Trek, either. I am so culturally deprived!

Animal House is a pretty funny movie.... but what ties this episode to that are Bender as Belushi (and if you saw the movie, you'd get exactly what I'm saying and how that's funny) and the ending of Animal House.... which is how that episode ends, with the telling what happened to all the characters after the movie is over.

I've been watching a lot of The Next Generation with my roommate lately Gorky... I enjoy star trek to some degree, but I think it's worth watching some of it; if you're ever interested Netflix is going to have all of the series on its streaming service... for $8 a month, you could watch all of the star treks. eek
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #733 on: 07-18-2011 01:41 »

Since the reset button is what we can all agree was the weakest part of the episode, (even me, and its one of my favorite episodes ever now), do you think they should have done something like Beast with a Billion Backs, and had the storyline resolve itself in another episode?  They could have had an episode where Kif and Amy resolve their differences and get back together, and PI could have ended on a downer note, with Amy being lonely and sad, so the audience might get more emotionally invested in her as a character.
Gorky

Space Pope
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« Reply #734 on: 07-18-2011 01:43 »

I think they should have never attempted the episode in the first place--but yes, ending it with Kif and Amy still broken up would have been my second choice. tongue

Seriously, though: How abruptly the episode ends and how easily Kif and Amy reconcile just shows how little the writers really cared about the ramifications that "Proposition Infinity" would have on the Kif/Amy relationship. They were reduced to mere plot devices, not fleshed-out characters. And that's my real beef with the episode, like I've already mentioned.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #735 on: 07-18-2011 01:55 »

I think they should have never attempted the episode in the first place--but yes, ending it with Kif and Amy still broken up would have been my second choice. tongue

Seriously, though: How abruptly the episode ends and how easily Kif and Amy reconcile just shows how little the writers really cared about the ramifications that "Proposition Infinity" would have on the Kif/Amy relationship. They were reduced to mere plot devices, not fleshed-out characters. And that's my real beef with the episode, like I've already mentioned.

That's why I think they should have a) ended with them heartbroken and broken up or
B) had a few scenes with Kif pining, and a little bit of subtle foreshadowing that he is going to man up and take charge.  Again, chekov's gunman, so it didn't feel like a complete reset button.

So if they weren't going to use Amy and Bender, which characters do you think they should have used?  New ones, or a pair of randomers like Calculon and Petunia or Sal and the Crushinator?   I really liked the storyline, and I felt it got plenty of laughs out of both Amy and Bender.  Everything from Bender's absolutely cruel treatment of her (you know that safe where you keep ten grand?  There's five grand in it!) to (his exhibit A diamond ring). 

winna

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« Reply #736 on: 07-18-2011 01:58 »

Since the reset button is what we can all agree was the weakest part of the episode, (even me, and its one of my favorite episodes ever now), do you think they should have done something like Beast with a Billion Backs, and had the storyline resolve itself in another episode?  They could have had an episode where Kif and Amy resolve their differences and get back together, and PI could have ended on a downer note, with Amy being lonely and sad, so the audience might get more emotionally invested in her as a character.

That actually sounds like an interesting way to resolve the problem.... plus it would put more investment into their relationship and make it less shambly that they broke up for a single episode and all that rather random stuff happened.  But I guess Futurama tends to prefer to stick to the rules of television as much as it can ending on the same note that it began.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #737 on: 07-18-2011 02:08 »

Since the reset button is what we can all agree was the weakest part of the episode, (even me, and its one of my favorite episodes ever now), do you think they should have done something like Beast with a Billion Backs, and had the storyline resolve itself in another episode?  They could have had an episode where Kif and Amy resolve their differences and get back together, and PI could have ended on a downer note, with Amy being lonely and sad, so the audience might get more emotionally invested in her as a character.

That actually sounds like an interesting way to resolve the problem.... plus it would put more investment into their relationship and make it less shambly that they broke up for a single episode and all that rather random stuff happened.  But I guess Futurama tends to prefer to stick to the rules of television as much as it can ending on the same note that it began.

Which is a rather foolish thing of the writers to do, because what sets Futurama apart from most other animated sitcoms is because its character driven, and has strong storytelling.  Its funny, but we genuinely get behind and care about the characters.  Its what the Simpsons used to be before the characters all become over the top caricatures of themselves.  Futurama has heart!   
Gorky

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« Reply #738 on: 07-18-2011 02:34 »

Futurama has heart!

That's why we got canceled. The show started to get a heart!

Also: I think paring Bender with some random lady would have made much  more sense in terms of who his character is. It also would have given the episode less of a rushed feeling: the first act is devoted to Kif and Amy's break-up, the second act is devoted to Amy and Bender's relationship developing, and the Big Political Statement really only comes into play in act three. Things move way too fast, and you can't get much of a foothold. If they had cut out the Amy/Kif relationship drama and just hooked Bender up with a hot piece of human ass in act one, it would have given the writers more time to play up the satirical parts of the episode.

...Of course, without the relationship involving two PE crewmembers, Farnsworth's outrage doesn't make as much sense. Of course, Farnsworth didn't need to be outraged at Bender's robosexual relationship. Some other supporting character completely separate of Planet Express could have been that week's Ideological Bad Guy.
FistfulOAwesome

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« Reply #739 on: 07-18-2011 05:04 »
« Last Edit on: 07-18-2011 05:10 »

Anyone who is annoyed by Proposition Infinity dropping an established pairing and/or characterizations for the purposes of re-purposing them to make a story work shouldn't be too surprised. The Beast With A Billion Backs did it for its story and DXC basically said (in the commentary) that they needed to to make their story work. PI's treatment has precedent. They are even similar in being loved as gag-filled and satirical about certain beliefs over being character based stories.

P.S. If anyone has an example from the classic run, please continue.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #740 on: 07-18-2011 05:14 »

Not really... the only ones I can think of is devoted wife Lebarbara dumping her husband or maybe even outright cheating on him for Barbados Slim whenever she gets the chance.  Its something that started in BBS, and has continued through season 6, which I find annoying, since its obvious the two love each other very much.  She even says she doesn't love him for his fat pudgy body, so I can't imagine why him not having it for a few days equals her divorcing him. 
Aki

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« Reply #741 on: 07-18-2011 14:03 »

I still can't see what's wrong. I can see why you think it's wrong but I don't agree. I didn't find the end convenient, sure it was a bit rushed because of time but to me Amy didn't return to Kif because he transformed into a "bad boy" on a motorcycle, but because he manned up and took control of the situation.

I don't think so either - Kif simply was at the right place at the right time, when Amy realized her mistake of letting him go.

But I still find it ruins their relationship somewhat. While before (yes, even after Zapp) it always seemed rock solid, a fairy tale relationship, they now seem much more casual. Which doesn't fit one bit with what made us love them in the first place.

Ofcourse, as Gorky said, these things are highly subjective, and you obviously don't think it matters as much as I do, and that's alright.

Sure the episode is not perfect, but certainly deserves no mention in the Worse Episode Ever thread, although the same goes to pretty much all other episodes after that Holiday Spectacular travesty.

I don't think I ever called PI the worst episode ever, but I don't see why we can't discuss its faults in this thread - they certainly make it debatable for the position, even though I certainly don't agree that it is that bad.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #742 on: 07-19-2011 01:35 »

I agree that Amy and Kif's break-up in "Proposition Infinity" was shamelessly contrived, but if you can get over that, the episode wasn't bad; it was about average for last season.

Arguably the best thing to come out of that episode was Billy West's awesome "Shut Up and Love Me!" song, and the making-of featurette on the Blu-ray, which I really enjoyed.
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #743 on: 07-19-2011 02:26 »

Yeah, I think PI overall is an okay episode that gets too much monkey feces thrown in its face for no good raisin. It has a good story (the Kif-Amy part ignored) and it has some good jokes and a nice theme with a message and all that. It works overall for me.
winna

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« Reply #744 on: 07-19-2011 02:28 »

I still can't see what's wrong. I can see why you think it's wrong but I don't agree. I didn't find the end convenient, sure it was a bit rushed because of time but to me Amy didn't return to Kif because he transformed into a "bad boy" on a motorcycle, but because he manned up and took control of the situation.

I don't think so either - Kif simply was at the right place at the right time, when Amy realized her mistake of letting him go.

But I still find it ruins their relationship somewhat. While before (yes, even after Zapp) it always seemed rock solid, a fairy tale relationship, they now seem much more casual. Which doesn't fit one bit with what made us love them in the first place.

Ofcourse, as Gorky said, these things are highly subjective, and you obviously don't think it matters as much as I do, and that's alright.

Sure the episode is not perfect, but certainly deserves no mention in the Worse Episode Ever thread, although the same goes to pretty much all other episodes after that Holiday Spectacular travesty.

I don't think I ever called PI the worst episode ever, but I don't see why we can't discuss its faults in this thread - they certainly make it debatable for the position, even though I certainly don't agree that it is that bad.

I actually really hated their relationship when it first occured.  I enjoyed both characters as separate independant entities, because it was funny.... Kif sidekicking Zapp Brandigan, and Amy slutting around ditzy and mixed language subtleties.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #745 on: 07-19-2011 02:34 »

I always felt it was weird too, but when you realize that Kif is considered incredibly handsome by females of many different species, it does make their relationship make more sense... considering Amy is quite slutty and a bit shallow.  Though she clearly likes him for his personality, rather then his galactic good looks.
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #746 on: 07-19-2011 02:35 »

Really? I remember thinking they were so awesome together from the first moment I saw them. Then again I never cared for slutty Amy.
FishyJoe

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« Reply #747 on: 07-19-2011 02:42 »

I agree with the episode's political/cultural message of acceptance and equality and all that jazz, but I think that is somewhat undermined by how heavy-handed and dismissive of the other side of the debate it is. I think it's always a mistake when writers take too overt a position in an episode like this (even though, like I said, I do side with the writers on the gay marriage debate), and that's what bothers me. The episode fails as social satire for the most part, and it also does some damage to Amy's character.

I can see your reasoning there. I hate it when episodes try to deliver an overt moral or political message, even when I agree with said message.

However, it didn't bother me here. For one, the episode was about robosexual marriage. Yes, I know, it is totally a rip on the Proposition 8 stuff, but still. Just having the focus be on robots marrying humans makes it harder to take the episode seriously as political commentary. The robosexual concept is so silly that it's hard to care that the writers are taking sides.

In addition, there was at least one joke that I interpreted to be not-completely-friendly to the pro-gay marriage side of the debate. It's been a while since I've seen the episode, but I recall Bender trying to get people to sign his petition and he says something like "if you don't like being punched in the face, please support this cause!" which I interpreted as a jab against some of the bullying tactics seen from the pro-gay marriage side during the height of all of the Proposition 8 stuff.

I agree, and I feel every side of the debate should be represented, but I really cant imagine any way you can be sympathetic to side of the anti gay rights brigade, any more you can be sympathetic or non-dismissive of white supremacists or NAMBLA.

I am absolutely 100% pro-gay marriage. But I'm also a good old fashioned church-goin' man, so I run into conservative folks here and there that oppose gay marriage. It's easy to vilify them as close-minded bigots who "hate fags", but most of the ones I have talked to who tell me their positions on the matter seem like decent, reasonable people.

They can view homosexuality as sinful and still love gay people, just like they can view pre-marital sex as sinful and still love people who have pre-marital sex (which is just about everybody). A lot of the hangup is on terminology (ie, they'll accept a "civil union" with the exact same rights of a marriage, as long as it's not called a "marriage").

Personally, I think the whole thing is silly and counterproductive, and Christians in general should just drop the issue and focus on actual important things. But at the same time, it strikes me as way over-dramatic to compare the anti-gay-marriage side to white suprecmacists and child molesters. Or to cry about "basic human rights" being violated. All of this drama, over a simple word?

Anywho...I thought Prop Infinity was one of the funniest episodes last season. I love good characterization and plotting as much as any other fan here, but some episodes don't need it. This episode was clearly just a vehicle for some gay marriage jokes and commentary, and I thought it was a big success in that regard. The gathering storm commercial is one of the best pieces of satire they've ever done, IMO. The episode was hilarious from start to finish. I can't believe anybody would consider it in the running for worst ever. Not even close.

SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

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« Reply #748 on: 07-21-2011 06:07 »
« Last Edit on: 07-21-2011 06:08 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

Quote
am absolutely 100% pro-gay marriage. But I'm also a good old fashioned church-goin' man, so I run into conservative folks here and there that oppose gay marriage. It's easy to vilify them as close-minded bigots who "hate fags", but most of the ones I have talked to who tell me their positions on the matter seem like decent, reasonable people.

They can view homosexuality as sinful and still love gay people, just like they can view pre-marital sex as sinful and still love people who have pre-marital sex (which is just about everybody). A lot of the hangup is on terminology (ie, they'll accept a "civil union" with the exact same rights of a marriage, as long as it's not called a "marriage").

Personally, I think the whole thing is silly and counterproductive, and Christians in general should just drop the issue and focus on actual important things. But at the same time, it strikes me as way over-dramatic to compare the anti-gay-marriage side to white suprecmacists and child molesters. Or to cry about "basic human rights" being violated. All of this drama, over a simple word?

Well this isnt really the place to argue for it, but I would say that it is basic human rights to be able to marry the person you love and to call it that.  The fact is there are a lot of people who are anti gay marriage who are also anti gay unions of any sorts, (such as Sarah Palin), so gay couples still can't get the same tax exemptions that a married couple do, as well as all the other legal things that a married couple will get (such as hospital visitation rights, custody of children should the biological parent die ect).  It may seem like a word to some, but to others its the final hurdle: why shouldn't it be referred to marriage, and not something that sounds like Newspeak?  It's not the word, its what it represents.  If you don't  have the exact same rights as someone else, what are you but a second class citizen?  Why should anyone be a second class citizen over something they cannot change?  America is extremely far behind when it comes to gay rights, and not just because of the gay marriage stance, from it being legal in several states to fire or refuse to serve gay people, ect ect (which I agree is a waste of time, let the gays get married, and no one wants to force straight people into a gay wedding. Want it? Get one.  Don't want it?  Don't get one.  Marriage was around long before any of the major relegions, and the Bible seems to be fine with one man marrying a hundred women, as long as he has them all at once, divorce is as bad as adultery it seems!)

However, I don't really want to turn this into a discussion about gay rights, especially with someone who is pro gay rights anyway.  If you want to discuss it further, please feel free to PM me.   big grin and I enjoyed PI for its quality writing and excellent jokes, rather then its metaphor for the gay rights.  It was the first episode that made me laugh more then once.

"We're your parents Amy, and if you can't talk about your problem with us... that would be great."
"Can I get an amen?" "I'll take a three men!  Holla!"
"You know that safe where you keep 10 grand?  There's five grand in it!"
"Well everyone, I'm back in the game!" "Yeah, the game of old maid!"
"I love Amy!  I've finally met someone I want to spend the rest of her life with!"
"You wouldn't know perversion if it put clamps on your testicles!"
"We can't compete with that much stock footage of clouds!"
"Hopes... deleted."
Aki

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« Reply #749 on: 07-21-2011 14:30 »

Why should anyone be a second class citizen over something they cannot change?

THEY CAN CHANGE IT IN THE NAME OF OUR LORD! Just give me money!

Seriously though, this discussion can be held in a different thread for those who want it (though I think I've never seen a PEELer who's against gay marriage), let's stay on topic here.

I personally didn't find the episode very preachy - obviously it had a clear message and a chosen side, but its point wasn't to say "see, we're right, gay rights is good and this is why", instead it was simply about joking around with the subject. It wasn't like they put forth an argument other than "all people should have the same rights, no matter their sexuality".
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #750 on: 07-21-2011 16:04 »

The fact is there are a lot of people who are anti gay marriage who are also anti gay unions of any sorts, (such as Sarah Palin)

It's worth noting that even though she disagrees, as governor she put aside her own opinion after a ruling from the Supreme Court of Alaska, even vetoing a bill that would have denied health and retiree benefits to same-sex couples because signing it would have violated her oath of office to uphold the constitution.
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #751 on: 07-21-2011 16:08 »

Not liking the idea of gay couples doesn't mean you want them dead though, Xanfor. Just because one doesn't like someone, doesn't mean that one wants that someone to suffer.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #752 on: 07-21-2011 16:17 »
« Last Edit on: 07-21-2011 16:20 »

Her political positions don't indicate that she doesn't like them (even if she is personally opposed to same-sex sexual relationships for her own moral and ethical reasons), they show that she doesn't want the government endorsing them. She's a conservative. She doesn't care what you do in your free time, she cares what the government has to use other people's money to pay for and sanction.
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #753 on: 07-21-2011 16:26 »

It's a completely different thing to want government to disallow their union, and to not give them the same basic rights that every other human have (health care) though. The union is directly related to their sexual preferences, while the health care is completely different, it has nothing to do with them being homosexual.
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #754 on: 07-21-2011 16:30 »

These were spousal benefits, not just regular health-care benefits.
Aki

Professor
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« Reply #755 on: 07-21-2011 16:35 »

It still has no direct contact with the subject. If a government agrees that same-sex spouses are legal, then ofcourse they should be counted as regular spouses on all levels. The way to go if you don't want them is to make them illegal or discouraged to begin with, not to go in the back door and start making them a special case.
FishyJoe

Honorary German
Urban Legend
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« Reply #756 on: 07-21-2011 16:36 »

Well this isnt really the place to argue for it,

Yeah, that pretty says it, right there. This isn't the place for it--my post was slightly inappropriate. Sorry y'all!

I still think Bendin' In The Wind is the worst one. Boring story, bad guest star, very few laughs. Good song, though.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
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« Reply #757 on: 07-21-2011 16:39 »
« Last Edit on: 07-21-2011 16:41 by SpaceGoldfishfromWazn »

I agree, Aki, which is why I said anyone who is interested in discussing it can PM me.  smile  And we are going off topic (trust me I have to really restrain myself on Sarah Palin.  I cannot stand the woman for so many reasons, and the fact that half my family have joined the Tea Party fills me with dread.  I always thought the Tea Party snagged stupid people, so seeing so many of my generous, intelligent loved ones joining worries me a lot.)  

Well Xanfor she says one of her friends is a lesbian (the old I'm not racist I have a black friend line...), and says she doesn't want to tell people what they can and can't do... then goes round to say she does not want gay couples to get any of the benefits straight couples do, and will take steps to make sure they will continue to be legally denied those benefits.  (Which is it, sweetheart?)   Personally, I don't see how you could like someone as a person, and then use something about them that they can't change to deny them the same rights you enjoy.  

Agh, we should keep the politics out of this.  PM discussion, anyone? XD  

Anyway, I also thought the reveal about Eunice and Unit was quite funny.  Futurama could have gone for the considerably more accurate route, and either have Professor have no real argument against robosexuality besides "I just don't like it, it's icky!" or have him turn up in a sleazy motel with a hookerbot (someone on another board suggested those ideas.  As we all know, the last scenario has happened a lot of times in real life with the most prominent anti gay campaigners.  A few months ago, an extremely militant anti-gay rights man was found to have employed a male prostitute on several trips, to "help with his luggage."  The fact that he went on a site for finding male prostitutes to find a porter... haha.)  Anyway, while they could have done that, they did so in a manner that meant the Professor ended up being sympathetic, rather then just being wrong and horrible.

Anyway, I was quite worried about this episode, as I was worried it would just become extremely preachy.  Family Guy does awful "gay" episodes, militantly crams the message down your throat that gay people are people to, whilst having all the gay characters to be obnoxious, selfish and extremely promiscuous stereotypes.  (And don't get me started on Bruno.  Pretty much every gay character on that show was a horrible person, and then they played them off against genuinely homophobic people instead of actors.   Way to prove their points!)  

So I really enjoyed this  episode.   The theme was there, but it wasn't as preachy and over the top as it could have been, and due to all the killer one liners, it restored my faith in futurama, and assured me that all was not lost.   And not a single singing boil or a excrement vomiting goat to offend the eye!
Xanfor

DOOP Secretary
*
« Reply #758 on: 07-21-2011 16:44 »

Agh, we should keep the politics out of this.  PM discussion, anyone?

Meh, sure, why not. The whole reason I said anything was because I was bored.
SpaceGoldfish fromWazn

Urban Legend
***
« Reply #759 on: 07-21-2011 16:52 »

Anyway.   Worst episode ever for me is Mars University, and its all the fault of Gunther.

I hate that little rodent!
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