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cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
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« Reply #280 on: 06-27-2010 03:31 »

The Cryonic Woman is my least favourite episode by a mile. That's Lobstertainment! isn't a hugely fantastic episode but it's far from the worst.

However, The Cryonic Woman sucks because:
The plot fails to delve into the fantastic emotional depths that they had at their potential disposal with a storyline delving into Fry's past and his past relationship and so forth.
Pauly Shore is an awful guest appearance. He serves no reason other than to please whoever the Pauly Shore fan on Futurama's writing staff is. He's a crap comedian and he's an even worse actor -his voice work on the episode is absolutely awful. He's the closest Futurama have ever come to The Simpsons way of sticking in celebrities simply for the hell of it.
There are so many problems with continuity -the L.A. depicted in the episode is never seen again, Fry doesn't get his job back at the end, etc, etc.
And the plot is incredibly dull and unfunny.
I could go on but it's sort of off-topic.
Books

Near Death Star Inhabitant
Urban Legend
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« Reply #281 on: 06-27-2010 03:33 »

Why the shit do people dislike Cryonic Woman? I never understood why it was a disliked episode, I'd call it an average Futurama episode :/
Lobstertainment is crap though
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #282 on: 06-27-2010 04:29 »
« Last Edit on: 06-27-2010 06:29 »

"That's Lobstertainment" is my least favourite episode because it's a one-note story about Zoidberg being a loser.

Jokes about Zoidberg being poor, a bad doctor, and an overall loser are funny, but in small doses; such as him misdiagnosing Bender with fin-fungus, seeing him digging in a dumpster for food, or his mating display failing to attract a female Decapodian. The first Zoidberg episode, "Why Must I Be A Crustacean In Love?" didn't focus on him entirely; the first act was a funny trip to the gym, then him freaking out; the second act was him and the PE crew visiting his planet; and the third act was him fighting Fry to death, in a hilarious parody of the classic Star Trek episode "Amok Time". Maybe five minutes of that episode was about Zoidberg being a pathetic loser, even amongst his own people. Whereas in "That's Lobstertainment", every part of the episode that had Zoidberg in it was about him being a loser. The joke just get's tired and increasingly unfunny.

The jokes about Hollywood were funnier; although, I felt like they were "in-jokes", and weren't as relatable as most jokes on Futurama.

I acknowledge that this episode is well written and has many funny parts; I just think that the writer relied too much on the joke of Zoidberg being a loser. I don't think that the episode is terrible; it's simply my least favourite episode of Futurama.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #283 on: 06-27-2010 04:47 »
« Last Edit on: 06-27-2010 06:34 »

Why the shit do people dislike Cryonic Woman? I never understood why it was a disliked episode, I'd call it an average Futurama episode :/
Lobstertainment is crap though
I don't understand why so many people hate "The Cryonic Woman" either. It's certainly not among the best episodes of Futurama, but it rates as "above average" IMO.

The beginning of the episode was hilarious! I loved the twist of Fry and Leela mixing up their career chips, so they switched jobs. The part of the episode wherein Fry and Bender worked at the Cryogenic Lab were fantastic. Admittedly though, the episode started to go off the rails when Fry unfroze his old girlfriend, Michelle. From there, the parts wherein Fry showed Michelle around future New New York were funny; but as soon as Fry caved and she took over his life, that's when the episode started to suck. The idea that Fry would forsake all of his friends to be with Michelle was just terrible; I thought it was horrible characterization. The third act wherein Fry and Michelle thought they were in a post-apocalyptic Year 4000, but it turned out they were in L.A. in the "present-future", was incredibly lame.

I agree that Paulie Shore was a terrible guest "star". I hated all of his movies and never thought he was funny, so he just spoiled this episode. I was actually pleased that Michelle ended up with him in the end, because they deserved each other.

As for the criticism that Fry didn't get his PE delivery boy job back at the end of the episode, and the Professor dropped him out of the ship to his apparent death -- lighten up, people! How many times have the characters been horribly injured, or has the Planet Express Ship crashed, or has the Earth ravaged by an alien invasion, and everything was back to normal in the next episode? It's a TV show! More specifically, it's a comedy sci-fi cartoon show! Just laugh it off.
Elexsa

Poppler
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« Reply #284 on: 06-27-2010 06:04 »

Ты не один, мне тоже нрава этот эпизод! хDDDD
FYP

New Tester
Urban Legend
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« Reply #285 on: 06-27-2010 06:33 »

It's a secret conspiracy by co-writers who hate the person who wrote Cryonic Woman.

Tea is great.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #286 on: 06-27-2010 06:42 »

Are you being serious, FYP?

The writer who wrote "The Cryonic Woman" was J. Stewart Burns, who wrote several of my favourite episodes of Futurama, "A Head in the Polls", "Mars University", and "My Three Suns", and the Emmy-winning "Roswell That Ends Well".
i_c_weiner

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #287 on: 06-27-2010 07:39 »

Let's look at his track record:
"My Three Suns" (1ACV07): Average
"Mars University" (1ACV11): Below-Average
"A Head in the Polls" (2ACV03): Good
"The Deep South" (2ACV12): Average
"The Cryonic Woman" (2ACV19): Horrible
"Where the Buggalo Roam" (3ACV10): Horrible
"Roswell that Ends Well" (3ACV19): Greatest

So you have two of the worst episodes of Futurama, some average episodes, and the greatest episode. Personally, I chalk him up as an average-by-below-average writer in the scheme of Futurama writers like Keeler and Kaplan.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #288 on: 06-27-2010 08:06 »
« Last Edit on: 06-27-2010 11:33 »

The writing credits are, at best, somewhat dubious with a show like Futurama.  The individual writer does the first draft (and maybe pitches the plot, but not always), but those tend to be heavily rewritten by the whole team.  The writing credits are interesting but I wouldn't put too much stock in them.

As for the two episodes:

I think Lobstertainment is okay.  Slightly underrated, in the sense that I actually think it's watchable and funny enough to be passably entertaining.  One of the weakest episodes of the series, I'd say, but not horrible.

Cryonic Woman, though...that episode is pretty damn funny actually.  I never understood the problem people have with it...it's one of the better episodes of season two, I think.  Oh, and Pauly Shore is pretty bad, but the cameo itself is funny, and minor enough anyway. The rest of the episode is funny and has a pretty clever plot, I think.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #289 on: 06-27-2010 08:40 »

Let's look at his track record:
"My Three Suns" (1ACV07): Average
"Mars University" (1ACV11): Below-Average
"A Head in the Polls" (2ACV03): Good
"The Deep South" (2ACV12): Average
"The Cryonic Woman" (2ACV19): Horrible
"Where the Buggalo Roam" (3ACV10): Horrible
"Roswell that Ends Well" (3ACV19): Greatest
Do you mind explaining why you think that "The Cryonic Woman" is so terrible? Because I think that the majority of the episode is great. As I explained, the problems with the episode are Michelle and Pauly Shore, but they don't occupy much of the episode.

I don't think that "Where the Buggalo Roam" is so bad either. I'd rate it as Below Average, simply because the "average" episode of Futurama is so good compared to other TV shows.

I liked "Mars University" because I was in university at the time -- wait, Fall 1999; no, not quite -- anyway, I remember watching it a lot with my friends in university, so I have fond memories associated with that episode. I hadn't seen or heard of the movie Animal House until the Season 1 DVD of Futurama came out, so I didn't know that Bender's exploits were more or less ripped from that movie. Regardless, I thought Bender was hilarious in that episode. And Fry & Gunther were funny as well.

Perhaps "My Three Suns" is only average, but again, that's because the average episode of Futurama is so good. I thought it was hilarious when Fry became the Emperor. Fry had some great lines, such as "Well, at least my assassin will get what's coming to him," and his crazy story about the grasshopper and the octopus. And his friends beating him up to make him cry out the former Emperer; and Bender's line at the end, "Hey, save some for me!" Brilliant. Actually, I think it it rates as "Above Average" IMO.

"A Head in the Polls" is one of my favourite episodes -- probably even more than "A Roswell That Ends Well". Billy West's impersonation of Richard Nixon's head is the funniest thing ever! It was a brilliantly funny episode from beginning to end.

I understand that we all are entitled to our opinions, and our liking or disliking of episodes is entirely subjective. If you don't like an episode, why not explain why, instead of just condemning it. That's what this thread is about; for people to explain why they dislike "That's Lobstertainment". I think this is a great idea. We should discuss all of the so-called "worst" episodes, to figure out exactly why we don't like them.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #290 on: 06-27-2010 13:50 »

I thought Cryonic Woman was funny. Joke-wise, it was a fine episode. It just had an unbelievable premise and an annoying character (Fry's girlfriend), so I guess that turned some people off.

Lobstertainment was hated because it was a Hollywood parody and it premiered right after The Simpsons started getting into this rut where they'd do lame Hollywood parodies every single episode. So when Futurama did it, it seemed like overkill. Plus there was nothing particularly strong about the jokes or the story. Zoidberg is boring on his own, and his uncle was double-boring. It was just an uninteresting episode in every aspect.

I guess it's not offensively bad, but it is definitely a weak episode.

Pretty much this. I'd rate That's Lobstertainment the lowest out of of Futurama's original run. The competition is simply better, and That's Lobstertainment has a rather boring premise, introduces a rather boring character and stays with him, and isn't executed particularly well. It's watchable, but I'd reach for all the other eps over this one...

I do have to say though, that That's Lobstertainment is a country mile better than the atrocity that is Bender's Game...
Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #291 on: 06-27-2010 14:14 »

"That's Lobstertainment!" was rather an influence by Hank Azaria.  As you will all recall (if you are true fans, that is), on the commentary of "That's Lobstertainment!", David X. Cohen mentions that Azaria on The Simpsons said he 'really liked the voice West did for Dr Zoidberg' and said 'if there is ever going to be a relative of his, I want to voice act him'.

So the initiative was rather 'we need a relative of Zoidberg and we are going to stay with him the whole episode, because Azaria is voice acting him'.  Now this is dangerous.  And while the writers have pulled off great one-episode characters that can carry the episodes alone (any one remember "That Guy"?), it is a rather tricky business.  You need to establish background and behaviour quick, and then comes their motivation.  You have at max 5-6 minutes to do this.  And while "That Guy" is an archetype, his character is believable because it is so over the top.  Harold Zoid lacks all these elements; he just used to be famous and wants to get back in the spot light.

And while that is noble and touching, it cannot really carry an episode, neither is it motivation enough for him making such a terrible film.  I am sure the joke is that 'actors should never write films' (see Star Trek: Nemesis as a prime example of this), but you really have to stop and think about it.  And is that the joke?  Woosh.

Now, I don't mind a Zoidberg heavy episode (take "Why Must I Be a Crustacean in Love?" or "A Taste of Freedom"), but in general, these episodes should be about Zoidberg's culture's differences and his lack of understanding of human behaviour.  "That's Lobstertainment!" has none of these elements.

The plot is rather simple, and not really original.  And they clearly didn't have much material, since they spend so much time with the Oscars-scene, which basically leads them to the next scene where Calculon is going to kill them.  The B-plot with Bender is only fun in the beginning (and I still love Calculon's line "Don't you have an extra GOTO 10 line?"), later it sort of seems meek (sure it actually helps Zoidberg get the money and such), but I don't know.

I, for one, actually enjoy "The Cryonic Woman".    But that's mainly because I like Michelle being annoying; that is exactly how she is supposed to be.  Now it could have done better with a B plot as well, but it's okay.  I actually don't have a 'least favourite episode'.
Nurdbot

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #292 on: 06-27-2010 14:58 »

I don't hate it, but it isn't on of their best.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #293 on: 06-27-2010 18:54 »

Why the shit do people dislike Cryonic Woman? I never understood why it was a disliked episode, I'd call it an average Futurama episode :/
Lobstertainment is crap though


Way below average. Continuity is basically thrown out of the window, the jokes are sub-par, and Michelle is totally unlikeable. There are major problems with shitty dialogue and there are hardly any background gags. There's no B-plot, there isn't a proper resolution, and the ending should logically mark the end of Futurama as a show.


But no, it's just a blatant disregard for continuity and the established tradition of giving everything a fair explanation that is otherwise present throughought the season. It smacks of being a rushed job, and one done by lazy writers who were unfamiliar with the show. It's by far the worst episode.

That's Lobstertainment, on the other hand, is just weak. Not very funny, not very interesting, and overall, not very good.  But nowhere near as bad as Cryonic Woman.
lilkitten29

Starship Captain
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« Reply #294 on: 06-27-2010 21:18 »

I think Kif Gets Knocked up a Notch  would have to be my least favorite episode of Futurama. I would watch Cryonic Woman over that episode any day.
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
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« Reply #295 on: 06-27-2010 21:44 »

I 100% agree with everything totalnerduk said.
Sun-Wukong

Crustacean
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« Reply #296 on: 06-27-2010 22:57 »
« Last Edit on: 06-28-2010 00:04 »

Quote from: i_c_weiner link=topic=18966.msg1119611#msg1119611
"Where the Buggalo Roam" (3ACV10): Horrible
How? It has some of my favorite lines in the show, namely "Robot gets bored and kills Fry with a hammer!" whenever Fry is trying to tell a scary story, also Zapp's line "Teenagers all smoke and they seem pretty on the ball." Besides that, I just liked the story.

Now, I'm going to say something that people may disagree with, but I don't think there's been a bad episode of Futurama. Some are better than others, but I can't really say I have a least favorite because that carries a negative connotation which I would rather not attach to any of them.

(and I still love Calculon's line "Don't you have an extra GOTO 10 line?")
Actually I'm pretty sure he said "Have you got an extra GOTO 10 line?" which I always assumed to be the robot equivalent of having an extra chromosome on a pair (Trisomy), thus having some sort of mental defect. I also liked that line, because it's just the kind of thing Calculon would say.
Jezzem

Urban Legend
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« Reply #297 on: 06-27-2010 23:25 »

Continuity is basically thrown out of the window


Wow. Futurama throwing continuity out the window in order to make a joke? Why, I've never heard of such a thing!

On "The Cryonic Woman": I find that the whole episode up until Fry and Michelle freeze themselves to be really good, then it kinda gets a little boring but still watchable, I guess. All of the stuff with Fry and Bender working at the Cryogenics lab is some of my favourite stuff in Futurama basically because it kinda feels like some sort of a sequel to Space Pilot 3000. Or something. I don't know, I just find that enjoyable.
Svip

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #298 on: 06-27-2010 23:26 »

Actually, it's "Have you got an extra GOTO 10 line?".  According to the transcript.  I assume the double 'have' was a typo on your behalf.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #299 on: 06-27-2010 23:29 »

Wow. Futurama throwing continuity out the window in order to make a joke? Why, I've never heard of such a thing!

They generally don't, and if they do, it's on a much smaller scale.
cyber_turnip

Urban Legend
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« Reply #300 on: 06-28-2010 00:03 »

Exactly. And it's one of the things that puts the show in a league above the likes of The Simpsons in my opinion.
Sun-Wukong

Crustacean
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« Reply #301 on: 06-28-2010 00:04 »

Actually, it's "Have you got an extra GOTO 10 line?".  According to the transcript.  I assume the double 'have' was a typo on your behalf.
Yeah, that was my bad. Allow me to go and edit that...
MovieMurderer

Bending Unit
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« Reply #302 on: 06-28-2010 03:54 »

That's Lobstertainment! was sub-par. I laughed... but it was one of the worst of the series. I loved it the first time I saw it, but even then it was nowhere near my top 10... or even top 50, for that matter.
leiapadme77

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #303 on: 06-28-2010 04:07 »

I actually like that episode!!! Zoidberg episodes are pretty funny, except for "A Taste of Freedom"--I don't like that one.
Although I think the main reason I really like "That's Lobstertainment" is because I grew up here in LA and I'm an actress, so all the filmaking and Hollywood jokes are really funny and true.
MovieMurderer

Bending Unit
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« Reply #304 on: 06-28-2010 04:12 »

Zoidberg episodes are pretty funny, except for "A Taste of Freedom"--I don't like that one.
I disagree, though fro a while I hated "A Taste of Freedom" and made sure it was the episode that remained "unwatched" on my TiVo, but I caught it on Comedy Central and remembered how hilarious it is.Though it still is not the best.
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #305 on: 06-28-2010 08:36 »

That's Lobstertainment! was sub-par. I laughed... but it was one of the worst of the series. I loved it the first time I saw it, but even then it was nowhere near my top 10... or even top 50, for that matter.

Haha, I just looked it up, and That's Lobstertainment! was the 40th episode. :P  (I agree with you, though).

Regarding continuity: the show has allowed minor continuity issues in the past, like disregarding that French is a dead language, or allowing Bender's metal percentages ("I'm 40 percent titanium!" etc) to add up to over 120 percent.  It depends on how important it is and whether it's worth disregarding a minor thing for a laugh.  When you have a show as crazy as Futurama, something like the characters dropping out of a spaceship and somehow surviving should really just be taken as a cartoony joke and not taken so seriously.  This is a show with a horrible gelatinous green blob who occasionally "eats" people who are seen alive in the next scene.  If someone is actually seen and confirmed as "dead" on the show, then it should be an issue (unless, of course, they're "reborn." Or not a character like Sal, whose "death" has been implied once or twice I believe).

As far as worst episodes: the only two I can think of that I truly dislike are Three Hundred Big Boys and A Pharaoh to Remember.  I'm surprised there hasn't been much mention of those.  There are a few other weaker ones, like A Leela of Her Own, but those were truly terrible.  I don't think almost any great show even has managed to go  without a couple bad ones, though, with the exception of particularly short-lived shows like "Police Squad!"



SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #306 on: 06-28-2010 09:16 »

Way below average. Continuity is basically thrown out of the window, the jokes are sub-par, and Michelle is totally unlikeable. There are major problems with shitty dialogue and there are hardly any background gags. There's no B-plot, there isn't a proper resolution, and the ending should logically mark the end of Futurama as a show.
Instead of making subjective, vague criticisms of this episode, how about you provide examples of what you disliked so much?

Problems with continuity? If you're harping on Fry not being re-hired by the Professor and then getting dropped out of the PE ship at the end of the episode, then FRAK OFF! It was just a funny gag to end the episode with. And there are countless other examples of crazy shit happening in an episode -- like characters being horribly injured, the PE ship being crashed, or the Earth being ravaged by an alien invasion -- that don't carry over into the next episode. So why are you singling out this particular episode for unfair criticism?

Sub-par jokes and shitty dialogue. WTF are you talking about? EXAMPLES!

Perhaps not every joke in this episode if LoL funny, but overall I don't think that the jokes are "sub-par" compared to other episodes. Same goes for the dialogue; nothing really stands out as being "shitty" -- except maybe Pauly Shore's dialogue.

Michelle is supposed to be unlikeable! She's the episode's antagonist, dumb ass!

Not every episode needs a B-story. There are countless Futurama episodes without a B-story.

Lack of background gags? Are you shitting me? Do you think that's a deserved criticism of this episode? There aren't any little gags in the background that most people won't notice or care about if they did.


I don't think that "The Cryonic Woman" is a great episode of Futurama, but it's certainly not one of the worst. And I can't tolerate anyone libeling any episode of Futurama with such petty and unsupported criticisms.
i_c_weiner

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #307 on: 06-28-2010 09:39 »

We just gave you supported criticisms. First, you're not allowed to criticize IAGDL's ending anymore after you said, "It was just a funny gag to end the episode." Second, if not "every' joke is laugh out loud funny then the episode is sub-par. Third, you don't understand that he meant about Michelle. He didn't mean that he didn't like her character because she wasn't amiable; he meant he didn't like her character because she was a horrible character. Fourth, a B-story definitely helps episodes. Look at the best episodes of Futurama and most have great B-plots. And a lack of background gags for a show that so prides itself in background gags is a deserved criticism. You complain that he doesn't support his criticism and is libeling, but he just gave you reasons and you're refuting them for no reason at all. Perhaps you are the ones who is being subjective.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #308 on: 06-28-2010 10:36 »
« Last Edit on: 06-28-2010 10:39 »

We just gave you supported criticisms. First, you're not allowed to criticize IAGDL's ending anymore after you said, "It was just a funny gag to end the episode." Second, if not "every' joke is laugh out loud funny then the episode is sub-par. Third, you don't understand that he meant about Michelle. He didn't mean that he didn't like her character because she wasn't amiable; he meant he didn't like her character because she was a horrible character. Fourth, a B-story definitely helps episodes. Look at the best episodes of Futurama and most have great B-plots. And a lack of background gags for a show that so prides itself in background gags is a deserved criticism. You complain that he doesn't support his criticism and is libeling, but he just gave you reasons and you're refuting them for no reason at all. Perhaps you are the ones who is being subjective.
BULLSHIT. 100% bullshit.

Firstly, IAGDL's ending wasn't the worst part of that episode; and I don't recall singling out the ending for criticism; I've always attributed my dissatisfaction for that episode because of the uninspired premise of Leela and Zapp marooned on a Garden of Eden planet.

Second, not every joke of Futurama is LoL funny, so no, it's not sub-par -- it's par for the series.

Third, define what you mean by "horrible character". Michelle was Fry's ex-girlfriend; that's her character. Her unlikeable characteristics may be loathsome, but they're appropriate for an antogonist.

Fourth, no, only a good B-story will help an episode; if the B-story is crap or pointless, the episode is better off without one. There are plenty of good episodes without a B-story. I'd contend that "Amazon Women in the Mood" doesn't really have a B-story; instead it has several "side stories", such as Zoidberg searching for a replacement shell; Fry and Bender remaining behind during Leela and Amy's double date, and then going to rescue them; and Bender seducing the Femputer/Fembot.

The Cryonic Woman" was similar, because it had a few side stories, such as Hermes, Amy, and Zoidberg becoming the new crew of the PE ship; Leela working as a Pizza Delivery"boy"; and Leela and Bender trying to get their jobs back at PE. None of those qualify as a distinctive B-story, but there's nothing wrong with that.

Fifth, certain episodes provide more opportunities for background jokes than others. "A Bicyclops Built for Two" and "War is the H-Word" have a lot of background and sign jokes. "The Cryonic Woman" does have some background jokes, just not as many as some other episodes.

He didn't support any of hiscriticisms; you did -- and not very well. He just threw criticisms out there like "continuity is basically thrown out of the window", "the jokes are sub-par", and "shitty dialogue". I simply asked for examples so I could know what he's referring to -- but I doubt that even he knows.

It seems like his criticism about "continuity" is mainly about the ending, wherein the three main characters supposedly don't get their jobs back, and Fry is apparently killed. Well, since Leela and Bender were with the Professor aboard the PE ship at the end, presumably they got their jobs back. The Professor admitted that he couldn't remember why he fired Fry in the first place -- until Bender reminded him -- so presumably he forgot again and re-hired Fry later. As for Fry apparently dying, that's bullshit! At the end of "War is the H-Word", Bender triggers the bomb inside him that was supposedly powerful enough to blow up Spheron 1, but not only is the Earth not destroyed, but Bender survived to say, "I'm all right." How is that ending any different than Fry being dropped out of the flying PE ship?

I'm refuting his criticisms because he didn't bother explaining any of them. I can tell you exactly what I liked and/or disliked about every episode. When I praise or criticize an episode, I state my reasons -- unless they're already apparent.

And don't be a dick who tries to throw a person's own criticisms back in their face, especially since it's unjustified. I've objectively explained how most of his criticisms are petty and unjustified, because they can be directed at many other episodes of Futurama, so he's unfairly singling out this episode as the "worst".
Morgan_G19

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #309 on: 06-28-2010 12:08 »

You guys take comedy way too seriously.

How? It has some of my favorite lines in the show, namely "Robot gets bored and kills Fry with a hammer!" whenever Fry is trying to tell a scary story, also Zapp's line "Teenagers all smoke and they seem pretty on the ball." Besides that, I just liked the story.

I also like how Kif said "Oh, monkey trumpets".
laff
DotheBartman

Liquid Emperor
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« Reply #310 on: 06-28-2010 13:39 »
« Last Edit on: 06-28-2010 13:42 »

Michelle is supposed to be unlikeable! She's the episode's antagonist, dumb ass!

I don't think that "The Cryonic Woman" is a great episode of Futurama, but it's certainly not one of the worst. And I can't tolerate anyone libeling any episode of Futurama with such petty and unsupported criticisms.

Dude, it's comments like these two that suggest to me that you really need to chill out.  Personally attacking people and calling them names is a little worse than someone critiquing a TV show episode you happen to like.  I love this show, but people here are discussing and giving reasons for their criticisms.  Debate if you want, that's what this is for, but you really need to calm down and not take it (or make it) so personal.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #311 on: 06-28-2010 20:00 »

Michelle is supposed to be unlikeable! She's the episode's antagonist, dumb ass!

I don't think that "The Cryonic Woman" is a great episode of Futurama, but it's certainly not one of the worst. And I can't tolerate anyone libeling any episode of Futurama with such petty and unsupported criticisms.

Dude, it's comments like these two that suggest to me that you really need to chill out.  Personally attacking people and calling them names is a little worse than someone critiquing a TV show episode you happen to like.  I love this show, but people here are discussing and giving reasons for their criticisms.  Debate if you want, that's what this is for, but you really need to calm down and not take it (or make it) so personal.
Dude, you're being over-sensitive and overly PC. Calling someone a "dumb ass" when they say something stupid does not constitute a "personal attack"; it qualifies as being brutally honest.

What do you say when someone says something stupid?
Nutmeg1729

Urban Legend
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« Reply #312 on: 06-28-2010 20:10 »

I think you all need to chill the fuck out.

It's a cartoon.

End of.
Otis P Jivefunk

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #313 on: 06-28-2010 20:25 »

I think this debate isn't heated enough.

It's a cartoon which when we watch it, we choose to watch it over doing anything else in our life at that time, so it must be important mustn't it?

Start of...
totalnerd undercanada

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« Reply #314 on: 06-28-2010 21:47 »

Way below average. Continuity is basically thrown out of the window, the jokes are sub-par, and Michelle is totally unlikeable. There are major problems with shitty dialogue and there are hardly any background gags. There's no B-plot, there isn't a proper resolution, and the ending should logically mark the end of Futurama as a show.
Instead of making subjective, vague criticisms of this episode, how about you provide examples of what you disliked so much?
No. I do not exist to serve your whims. Go fuck yourself.

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Problems with continuity? If you're harping on Fry not being re-hired by the Professor and then getting dropped out of the PE ship at the end of the episode, then FRAK OFF! It was just a funny gag to end the episode with.
It wasn't funny, and the ending needed to contain some sort of resolution, rather than just a throwaway gag.

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And there are countless other examples of crazy shit happening in an episode -- like characters being horribly injured, the PE ship being crashed, or the Earth being ravaged by an alien invasion -- that don't carry over into the next episode. So why are you singling out this particular episode for unfair criticism?

Generally, either something doesn't carry into the next episode because it's minor (damage to NNY, damage to the PX ship, etc) and is assumed to have been fixed between one episode and the next, or it is dealt with during the course of the episode, ie: resolved.

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Sub-par jokes and shitty dialogue. WTF are you talking about? EXAMPLES!
Again, I do not exist to service your whims. Go fuck yourself, and provide examples.

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Perhaps not every joke in this episode if LoL funny, but overall I don't think that the jokes are "sub-par" compared to other episodes. Same goes for the dialogue; nothing really stands out as being "shitty" -- except maybe Pauly Shore's dialogue.

Michelle is supposed to be unlikeable! She's the episode's antagonist, dumb ass!

There are plenty of likeable antagonists throughout fiction. Michelle's presence as a totally irredeemable bitch with no relateable qualities detracts from the episode rather than enhances it. Dumb ass.

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Not every episode needs a B-story. There are countless Futurama episodes without a B-story.

So you can't count to six? Wow. You should probably watch fewer cartoons and take a few more maths classes.

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Lack of background gags? Are you shitting me? Do you think that's a deserved criticism of this episode?

Oh my, yes.
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There aren't any little gags in the background that most people won't notice or care about if they did.

I care. It's part of the show's charm for me. But then again, I can count to more than six. Perhaps for you, the background gags are overstimulation... but that's to be expected from somebody who seems to be unable to take in more than what's immediately there on the surface. Futurama has a depth and richness that's obviously wasted on you.
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I don't think that "The Cryonic Woman" is a great episode of Futurama, but it's certainly not one of the worst. And I can't tolerate anyone libeling any episode of Futurama with such petty and unsupported criticisms.

Really, where did you get the opinion that I need you to tolerate me? My criticisms are not petty, nor are they unsupported. As support, I offer the entire episode. If you've a problem with me hating the episode, go fuck yourself. Don't forget to show your working and provide examples.

We just gave you supported criticisms. First, you're not allowed to criticize IAGDL's ending anymore after you said, "It was just a funny gag to end the episode." Second, if not "every' joke is laugh out loud funny then the episode is sub-par. Third, you don't understand that he meant about Michelle. He didn't mean that he didn't like her character because she wasn't amiable; he meant he didn't like her character because she was a horrible character. Fourth, a B-story definitely helps episodes. Look at the best episodes of Futurama and most have great B-plots. And a lack of background gags for a show that so prides itself in background gags is a deserved criticism. You complain that he doesn't support his criticism and is libeling, but he just gave you reasons and you're refuting them for no reason at all. Perhaps you are the ones who is being subjective.
BULLSHIT. 100% bullshit.
COCKSUCKER. 100% COCKSUCKER

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Firstly, IAGDL's ending wasn't the worst part of that episode; and I don't recall singling out the ending for criticism; I've always attributed my dissatisfaction for that episode because of the uninspired premise of Leela and Zapp marooned on a Garden of Eden planet.
Uninspired premise? It's roughly on a par with that of The Cryonic Woman, in which the premise is that Fry's annoying girlfriend shows up.
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Second, not every joke of Futurama is LoL funny, so no, it's not sub-par -- it's par for the series.
Not all of them are LOL funny, no. But most of them are. It's when you recognise a joke as a joke and think "nah, not funny" that it becomes a bad joke, right? Sub-par jokes, on the other hand are those which are not up to the usual standard - which is LOL funny. Therefore an episode heavy on the sub-par jokes is sub-par. Idiot. Lrn2logically extrapolate.


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Third, define what you mean by "horrible character".
A horrible character. Duh.
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Michelle was Fry's ex-girlfriend; that's her character.
No, that's her raison d'etre. Her character is the sum of her characteristics.
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Her unlikeable characteristics may be loathsome, but they're appropriate for an antogonist.
No, they're just irritating. A good antagonist will be somebody that you want on screen. Just because you know one or two screenwriting terms, throwing them around at random doesn't make you appear smart.

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Fourth, no, only a good B-story will help an episode; if the B-story is crap or pointless, the episode is better off without one. There are plenty of good episodes without a B-story. I'd contend that "Amazon Women in the Mood" doesn't really have a B-story; instead it has several "side stories", such as Zoidberg searching for a replacement shell; Fry and Bender remaining behind during Leela and Amy's double date, and then going to rescue them; and Bender seducing the Femputer/Fembot.
Side stories = B, C, and D plots. There's usually a B-plot. Episodes without tangents and B-plots tend to be weaker. Not always, but usually. Again, I'm generalising, but I'm right. I sincerely hope that this infuriates you.
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The Cryonic Woman" was similar, because it had a few side stories, such as Hermes, Amy, and Zoidberg becoming the new crew of the PE ship; Leela working as a Pizza Delivery"boy"; and Leela and Bender trying to get their jobs back at PE. None of those qualify as a distinctive B-story, but there's nothing wrong with that.
None of those are B-Plots. They're all distinctly part of the main story.
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Fifth, certain episodes provide more opportunities for background jokes than others. "A Bicyclops Built for Two" and "War is the H-Word" have a lot of background and sign jokes. "The Cryonic Woman" does have some background jokes, just not as many as some other episodes.

Every episode with a background provides as many opportunities for background jokes as there are elements to the background.

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He didn't support any of hiscriticisms; you did -- and not very well. He just threw criticisms out there like "continuity is basically thrown out of the window", "the jokes are sub-par", and "shitty dialogue". I simply asked for examples so I could know what he's referring to -- but I doubt that even he knows.

I know. I would think it obvious from watching the episode as to what I'm referring. I assumed some degree of familiarity with the series. If you'd like me to be more specific, go fuck yourself.

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It seems like his criticism about "continuity" is mainly about the ending, wherein the three main characters supposedly don't get their jobs back, and Fry is apparently killed. Well, since Leela and Bender were with the Professor aboard the PE ship at the end, presumably they got their jobs back. The Professor admitted that he couldn't remember why he fired Fry in the first place -- until Bender reminded him -- so presumably he forgot again and re-hired Fry later. As for Fry apparently dying, that's bullshit! At the end of "War is the H-Word", Bender triggers the bomb inside him that was supposedly powerful enough to blow up Spheron 1, but not only is the Earth not destroyed, but Bender survived to say, "I'm all right." How is that ending any different than Fry being dropped out of the flying PE ship?
1) They don't have their jobs back. Watch it again.
2) The lack of definite resolution is what bugs me. Nothing hits continuity harder than something that is apparantly forgotten (or even literally forgotten) by the next episode.
3) The very fact that Bender manages to set off the bomb and be all right afterwards gives us three observations. Firstly, the bomb was not as powerful as advertised. Secondly, it can't have harmed anybody. Thirdly, we can assume that since the bomb didn't work as advertised and nobody was harmed, there is no continuity gap.

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I'm refuting his criticisms because he didn't bother explaining any of them.

I've seen precious little refuting and loads of questions, with the occasional "dumbass" thrown in. You have delusions of grandeur, Sparky.

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I can tell you exactly what I liked and/or disliked about every episode. When I praise or criticize an episode, I state my reasons -- unless they're already apparent.

Good for you. Have a gold star. Don't eat the paste.
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And don't be a dick
Why not? You are.

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who tries to throw a person's own criticisms back in their face, especially since it's unjustified. I've objectively explained how most of his criticisms are petty and unjustified, because they can be directed at many other episodes of Futurama, so he's unfairly singling out this episode as the "worst".

No you haven't, no they can't, no I'm not, and ha! Seriously, you're an idiot.
i_c_weiner

DOOP Secretary
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« Reply #315 on: 06-29-2010 04:17 »
« Last Edit on: 06-29-2010 04:21 »

Michelle is supposed to be unlikeable! She's the episode's antagonist, dumb ass!

I don't think that "The Cryonic Woman" is a great episode of Futurama, but it's certainly not one of the worst. And I can't tolerate anyone libeling any episode of Futurama with such petty and unsupported criticisms.

Dude, it's comments like these two that suggest to me that you really need to chill out.  Personally attacking people and calling them names is a little worse than someone critiquing a TV show episode you happen to like.  I love this show, but people here are discussing and giving reasons for their criticisms.  Debate if you want, that's what this is for, but you really need to calm down and not take it (or make it) so personal.
Dude, you're being over-sensitive and overly PC. Calling someone a "dumb ass" when they say something stupid does not constitute a "personal attack"; it qualifies as being brutally honest.

What do you say when someone says something stupid?
You engage in a debate. We have been staying the course of being eloquent in our remarks and supporting ourselves. You are the one who is resorting to crass language, saying unsupported remarks, and asking questions to answer questions. When somebody is the first to resort to petty namecalling, it's the sign that they have lost an argument. Calling somebody a dumbass does constitute a personal attack. How would you like it if, during my argument, I opened with: "You are a fucking moron who needs to stop sucking his mother's teats." Yeah, that's not a personal attack at all. I'm going to make sure that I employ this strategy from now on in all my debates. Thanks for the advice, dude.

And you used "overly PC" incorrectly. When somebody's being politically correct, they're making sure not to say offensive remarks about or to a certain group. For example, saying that anybody who follows the Maple Leafs is a wanker is not being politically correct.
I.C. Weiner

Bending Unit
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« Reply #316 on: 06-29-2010 18:15 »

Is anyone else picturing Soryn foaming at the mouth with a crazy look in his eyes pounding on his keyboard with every post? I've never been able to figure out why people get so worked up over a differing opinion about a t.v. show.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #317 on: 06-29-2010 20:19 »

Is anyone else picturing Soryn foaming at the mouth with a crazy look in his eyes pounding on his keyboard with every post?

Glad I'm not the only one to recieve that particular mental image.
SorynArkayn

Bending Unit
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« Reply #318 on: 06-29-2010 20:40 »

Is anyone else picturing Soryn foaming at the mouth with a crazy look in his eyes pounding on his keyboard with every post?

Glad I'm not the only one to recieve that particular mental image.
Picture me instead shaking my head in utter pity at all of you for being such pompous imbeciles.

You obviously have some kind of a rod up your asses, both in general, and especially for "The Cryonic Woman".

The fact that totalnerduk won't provide actual examples of the jokes and dialogue that he believes are so terrible proves to me that he's unable to justify his hatred for that particular episode. And to try to cover that up, he's gotten all pissed off at me for questioning his opinion. And his forum friends are all eager to jump to his defence.

I couldn't care less if you disagree with me, because your opinions mean absolutely nothing to me. I was simply asking you to explain your opinions so that I could determine if they objective or subjective; and they're certainly the latter. And there's no point in continuing to argue with a posse of irrational jackasses who can't tolerate being questioned or criticized in any way.
totalnerd undercanada

DOOP Ubersecretary
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« Reply #319 on: 06-29-2010 20:59 »

pompous imbeciles

Funny, but that's more how you come across than anybody else. Believe me, I am quite capable of providing examples of what sucks in The Cryonic Woman. I just don't think that it'll do any good. You'd disagree on principle. You're about as likeable as Michelle.

I'm not bothered that you're questioning my opinion. Opinions are there to be questioned (although I only hold correct opinions tongue ), but you're being a cock about it. A pompous, imbecilic cock. If you'd come across as a little more patient, tolerant, and even objective (you seem more subjective than most, to me) I might have been willing to engage in conversation on a more reasonable footing.

The fact is that you're knocking a perfectly good episode with very cromulent jokes, and embiggening a terrible one, then calling anybody who dares to state their opinon without giving screengrabs and transcript references a dumbass.

I don't need to justify myself to you, dude. I'm certainly not going to sit through the episode with a notepad and pen handy to write down in depth my feelings on each individual frame.

I generalise. I like to generalise, because it allows me to be lazy, at the same time as covering a lot more ground, so to speak. Occasionally, it even allows me to get away with being politically incorrect. Generalising isn't something that works for you, I get it. I also get that you didn't like Rebirth. I also get that you're a turdmuncher.

In conclusion, go fuck a squirrel.
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